Whiteman returns

[bertieblade]

The money we have lost in the last 6 years is just written off then?

Not at all, business is unfortunately not that simple, but as previously stated being so close to the prize us not the time to,stop,investment, especially when the required funds / or promised security for said funds has been provided from a source which was not included in initial budgets.

 

[Bert]

It's exactly the content that Bert expected. You might want to read it again to get a better comprehension.

Also read again Bert's post #196.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Many thanks D&A.
The thing that I do not get, and if you refer to Alan Biggs latest article he does not either.
Why when we are so close to putting ourselves in a position to get back into the premiership do we stop investing?
Ok we lose ~ £5 million every year for the past six but this year that is offset by the £7 million sell on income, in fact this year we should make a profit.

No, if you did read the Prince's interview he said the club could break even this year with the Maguire and Walker money if there was no investment in January. But it would be back to losing money again the following season which McCabe and he would have to cover if they stay in the Championship.

He also said that would not be the case as there would be investment in January (ie there would be further losses they have to cover). Wilder knows what this number is.

I've never known United publicise what it might spend in any window and I don't ever expect to either. Agents, players and clubs would then have a negotiation advantage.

There will be some investment and it'll undoubtedly be small in comparison to parachute clubs and those with wealthy owners which accounts for about half of the division.

 

[Deaneandagana]

It's exactly the content that Bert expected. You might want to read it again to get a better comprehension.

Thanks for your kind advice, however on this occasion not necessary.

Have gained a satisfactory understanding of the principle & audience.

 

[Bert]

Not at all, business is unfortunately not that simple, but as previously stated being so close to the prize us not the time to,stop,investment, especially when the required funds / or promised security for said funds has been provided from a source which was not included in initial budgets.

What was the initial budget?

 

[Silent Blade]

Preston, one of our rivals, have signed two players this week.

 

[bertieblade]

Well whatever it was it did not take account of an ~ £7 million windfall.

 

[Bert]

Well whatever it was it did not take account of an ~ £7 million windfall.

Bert is like you, he has no idea what the budget was for this season.
However one thing he does know is that today is the 4th of January, not the 31st.

 

[bertieblade]

Mmmm good point well made and totally agree with you. In fact I believe I have referred to that in a previous post

 

[Deaneandagana]

Mmmm good point well made and totally agree with you. In fact I believe I have referred to that in a previous post

Yes fair point, let’s hope

 

[wizadry]

Nobody knows the budget and like BushBlade says, let’s wait until the end of January to discuss our dealings but I’d just like to pick up on one thing I keep seeing people put and that is Wilder will never say he isn’t being backed whilst he’s at our club, he’d be out the door in a shot.

Oh, and this is a thread about Ben Whiteman, FFS!

 

[LJBlade]

I haven't heard Wilder saying he won't be spending lots but not saying he hasn't said that mate. He has said he always wants more - what manager wouldn't - and he'll squeeze the best out of the budget and loans are therefore likely over permanent deals.

You keep asking me questions that neither of us can answer but I'm looking from where I am as a fan that we have a small budget for player recruitment, the article below from Alan Biggs who has far more contacts than we do also states this.

https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foo...not-undermine-their-greatest-assett-1-8940849

Exactly my point, you don’t know, you are assuming. Instead of just saying that you don’t know you decided to take an immediate negative view that Wilder isn’t being backed by the club, something which even Wilder himself hasn’t said.

Hopefully you can answer this one. Are you still going to be disappointed with us not spending £3-5m (because we won’t be) if Wilder says at the end of the window that he is happy with his recruitment?

 

[Sean Thornton]

HRH has gone on record to say that he is prepared to back the manager in this transfer window. As stated previously McCabe is conspicuous by his absence and can only assume that he is required to match any HRH investment, that does not appear to be the case, although we have to wait until the end of the window for clarification.
I can understand no investment but cannot understand why our fan base has again been mislead. Either left hand does not know what right hand us doing or they sing off different hymn sheets.

I agree it’s common sense but please do not mislead the fan base

As far as I was concerned, the additional input was ONLY for players and would come from the Prince.

McCabe therefore doesn't appear to have gone missing or be conspicuous by his "absence". Which is misleading.

 

[McGrath]

As far as I was concerned, the additional input was ONLY for players and would come from the Prince.

McCabe therefore doesn't appear to have gone missing or be conspicuous by his "absence". Which is misleading.

I understood similar.... you can own half the club for a quid (or whatever it is) as long as you chuck your money at the squad instead.

When McCabe said game changing investment, I don't think he meant it was coming from him

 

[ucandomagic]

We have a club whose current success is all based on winning together and losing together. We have a wage structure which starts low, but rewards performance and contribution - hence nobody feels hard done by.

Generally, the more you pay for a new player the higher his wages will be. Breaking our wage structure looking for immediate reward is far less likely to succeed than growing it progressively. Conversely, it is highly likely to kill the golden goose of common spirit that we have been enjoying. The only way that buying success works is if the money well is bottomless and debt does not exist.

Even with bottomless pockets you are only trying to outbuy others with bottomless pockets, and gravity only works one way - going back down is always much easier!

Unless we find a diamond mine under Shirecliffe we won’t be competing suddenly in the “my wallet’s bigger than your wallet” stakes. Hence, the club has to let Chris work to evolve his approach and move us to a higher level in a sustainable way. Better to stay where we are than to plummet back to where we’ve been and beyond while chasing impossible dreams.

Screaming for more funding only puts pressure on the club to spend more than it can afford. Chris thinks the likes of Leonard, Cole and Holmes will improve our squad and continue our progress. Whether his difficulty in closing those deals is restricted by his budget or by his unwillingness to go beyond our current strategy none of us can know.

For now I will just enjoy the ride and appreciate having proper Yorkshire values in our play and in our finances.

Real Magic is Earned Not Bought

 

[wizadry]

Oh, and we still won’t know what budget he had after the window due to our undisclosed transfer fees, that’s if you didn’t already know how we did our business.

Ben Whiteman will affect this budget either way just to keep this thread on topic.

 

[wizadry]

We have a club whose current success is all based on winning together and losing together. We have a wage structure which starts low, but rewards performance and contribution - hence nobody feels hard done by.

Generally, the more you pay for a new player the higher his wages will be. Breaking our wage structure looking for immediate reward is far less likely to succeed than growing it progressively. Conversely, it is highly likely to kill the golden goose of common spirit that we have been enjoying. The only way that buying success works is if the money well is bottomless and debt does not exist.

Even with bottomless pockets you are only trying to outbuy others with bottomless pockets, and gravity only works one way - going back down is always much easier!

Unless we find a diamond mine under Shirecliffe we won’t be competing suddenly in the “my wallet’s bigger than your wallet” stakes. Hence, the club has to let Chris work to evolve his approach and move us to a higher level in a sustainable way. Better to stay where we are than to plummet back to where we’ve been and beyond while chasing impossible dreams.

Screaming for more funding only puts pressure on the club to spend more than it can afford. Chris thinks the likes of Leonard, Cole and Holmes will improve our squad and continue our progress. Whether his difficulty in closing those deals is restricted by his budget or by his unwillingness to go beyond our current strategy none of us can know.

For now I will just enjoy the ride and appreciate having proper Yorkshire values in our play and in our finances.

Real Magic is Earned Not Bought

Some very good points well made.

 

[Sean Thornton]

They both promised investments at different times in articles in the Sheffield star, the latest of which was I believe November when the star ran four articles based around an interview with HRH.

You can of course assume that I make it all up?

MYSTERY

That is, of course, if the input of the Saudi Prince who bought 50 per cent of United for £1 in 2013 and was described at the time by McCabe as a “game-changer” didn’t remain shrouded in mystery.

In an interview with BBC Radio Sheffield in February 2016 McCabe acknowledged that whilst his partner was providing support – he quoted a total of £15m at that time whilst then co-chairman Jim Phipps in a separate interview said it was £13m – the ‘game-changing’ aspect of the Prince’s involvement would not materialise until United reached the Championship.



This is from "a view from John Street" not a McCabe fan at all and highly critical of the club but reiterates what I said about the Prince investing more on promotion.

We aren't of course actually aware of what's available but personally Icant see it being a significant amount say over, say £5m. My supposition more or less but based on common sense and a bit of info.

 

[Deaneandagana]

MYSTERY

That is, of course, if the input of the Saudi Prince who bought 50 per cent of United for £1 in 2013 and was described at the time by McCabe as a “game-changer” didn’t remain shrouded in mystery.

In an interview with BBC Radio Sheffield in February 2016 McCabe acknowledged that whilst his partner was providing support – he quoted a total of £15m at that time whilst then co-chairman Jim Phipps in a separate interview said it was £13m – the ‘game-changing’ aspect of the Prince’s involvement would not materialise until United reached the Championship.



This is from "a view from John Street" not a McCabe fan at all and highly critical of the club but reiterates what I said about the Prince investing more on promotion.

We aren't of course actually aware of what's available but personally Icant see it being a significant amount say over, say £5m. My supposition more or less but based on common sense and a bit of info.

Interesting, do you believe the £5m is inclusive of fees, wages & bonuses for any new acquisitions?

I would go more along the Alan Biggs route of circa £2.5m

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Income was 'eight figures' in 2016. It was £10,9m and we lost £ 7,8m
It was also 'eight figures' in 2017. It was £ 11.6m and we lost £ 5.7m.

So let;s say this years increase gets up to near £15m? Even at that we are still likely to lose £2-3m.

Can't you see that most of McCabe and the Princes investment has been spent on plugging these losses?

You and others might not like this, but the current economics of football wages mean that we will continue to lose money outside of the Premier League. So if you want Mccabe to 'invest' will you be offering to pick up this year's losses and those from future years that arise from the higher wages being paid to these new star players you want us to sign?

The rise in income runs to eight figures.
Given the income from Walker and Maguire, big increase in tv income and attendances up more than 20 per cent (at higher prices) that rise is a significant eight figure sum.
And given what's happened at board level, I'm not convinced McCabe is the drag on investment at the moment.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I understood similar.... you can own half the club for a quid (or whatever it is) as long as you chuck your money at the squad instead.

When McCabe said game changing investment, I don't think he meant it was coming from him

His words were the Princes investment would be "game changing" which bears out what you say as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Interesting, do you believe the £5m is inclusive of fees, wages & bonuses for any new acquisitions?

I would go more along the Alan Biggs route of circa £2.5m

No, I meant I can't see it being £5m the way things appear to be at the moment. But if so, would deffo have to cover everything.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

The rise in income runs to eight figures.
Given the income from Walker and Maguire, big increase in tv income and attendances up more than 20 per cent (at higher prices) that rise is a significant eight figure sum.
And given what's happened at board level, I'm not convinced McCabe is the drag on investment at the moment.

Back for more Len,you need to up your game considerably,after the Preston gaffe,following on from the Wilder is incompetent/proven fiasco of yours.

 

[bertieblade]

It would be sensible to think that the deal with HRH was limited to an agreed amount over a period of time and that when that has expired McCabe is obliged to match any investment?

 

[Sean Thornton]

It would be sensible to think that the deal with HRH was limited to an agreed amount over a period of time and that when that has expired McCabe is obliged to match any investment?

Yet no one has said any such thing.

 

[Harrisblade]

MYSTERY

That is, of course, if the input of the Saudi Prince who bought 50 per cent of United for £1 in 2013 and was described at the time by McCabe as a “game-changer” didn’t remain shrouded in mystery.

In an interview with BBC Radio Sheffield in February 2016 McCabe acknowledged that whilst his partner was providing support – he quoted a total of £15m at that time whilst then co-chairman Jim Phipps in a separate interview said it was £13m – the ‘game-changing’ aspect of the Prince’s involvement would not materialise until United reached the Championship.



This is from "a view from John Street" not a McCabe fan at all and highly critical of the club but reiterates what I said about the Prince investing more on promotion.

We aren't of course actually aware of what's available but personally Icant see it being a significant amount say over, say £5m. My supposition more or less but based on common sense and a bit of info.

You can't bloody help yourself can you?
Everyone's having a really enjoyable time predicting doom, destruction and meltdown caused by spendthrift owners - and there you are, remembering arty-farty factual things that the rest of us had forgotten, discounted or didn't understand in the first place.
Just get with the popular agenda and let us wallow in our imaginary misery!
Regards,
A Happy Clapper

 

[Pinchy]

But you claimed not long ago that he was not up to the challenge,now you are claiming he has proven himself,which one is it?

One or the other, I guess:

 

[Pinchy]

Multi millionaires don't necessarily have bundles of cash to spend and banks aren't throwing millions at loss making clubs like ours. Over twenty million cash has gone in since the Prince teamed up with KMc on top of what Kevin put in before. I doubt they envisaged that much being blown before promotion.

I agree that there's no evidence of the promised spending on promotion but I'm also realistic enough to see that that situation makes it obvious we are unlikely to spend millions, something others clearly expect.

I still don't understand why the money "should" be there, when the club loses millions every year.

The Walker and Maguire money of course. It lasts forever. We haven’t spent the Mick Jones money yet.

Football clubs have it easy. How would they cope if they had to pay tax, wages, utility bills, security, credit and loans, repair and maintain their property, run a vehicle, clothe themselves, buy the odd bottle of pale ale and a pork sandwich and generally pay their way in the real world, like the rest of us poor feckers? I bet they even have Sky Sports.

What?

Really??

You’re kidding???

 

[Sean Thornton]

The Walker and Maguire money of course. It lasts forever. We haven’t spent the Mick Jones money yet.

Football clubs have it easy. How would they cope if they had to pay tax, wages, utility bills, security, credit and loans, repair and maintain their property, run a vehicle, clothe themselves, buy the odd bottle of pale ale and a pork sandwich and generally pay their way in the real world, like the rest of us poor feckers? I bet they even have Sky Sports.

What?

Really??

You’re kidding???

If it's not broken down in the accounts, it's not real.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You can't bloody help yourself can you?
Everyone's having a really enjoyable time predicting doom, destruction and meltdown caused by spendthrift owners - and there you are, remembering arty-farty factual things that the rest of us had forgotten, discounted or didn't understand in the first place.
Just get with the popular agenda and let us wallow in our imaginary misery!
Regards,
A Happy Clapper

I'm sorry. I'd get out more, but I've got to look after this £7m that Kevin brought round in a bin bag.