Does the club match the Manager's desire to succeed?

[itsinyerblood]

Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere.

I hope I'm not one to overreact to a few losses - recall last season when we began the campaign disastrously?

The reason for this post is to gauge the likelihood of whether SUFC has the wherewithal to make a genuine push for promotion, either this season (unlikely in my view, something I commented on before this season began) or the next. Given that we had an extended stay in Division 1, it shouldn't come as a great surprise that we make whatever adjustments are necessary before launching ourselves into a promotion push.

Money is at the centre of football, so being in a position to back any claims to want to improve and become a Premiership team should be a priority for us. My question, and I suspect a view shared by many Blades, is whether the directors - which is a clumsy shorthand for McCabe and The Prince (the other directors seem to have little or no financial input into which players we purchase, correct?) - are capable, or willing, to match our Manager's aims and objectives. I doubt Wilder is unrealistic, but I think it's obvious he wants to be part of a club that has drive and ambition. I keep having this nagging doubt whether under the current board of directors we have the necessary ambition to push further than merely surviving in the Championship, am I wrong in that conclusion? I hope so.

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of other posters, about whether I seem to be in a minority, or whether my doubts are shared by other posters? I know this isn't a poll, at best they tend to be vague given the numbers that contribute to this forum, but everyone who posts on here is dedicated and wants the best for this club, so your opinions are invited and welcomed. UTMB!

 

[sufcboy95]

No

 

[BigBed]

No

 

[JohnDenver]

Do we have the wherewithal? Not for buying our way up in one season, no.

I think a better gauge is how we build season on season. Steady improvement should be possible given reasonable investment in player retention as well as investment in potential.

If we're not challenging in three years time, then I'll answer 'no' without caveat.

 

[Bladesthorpe]

It's so easy to spend other peoples money, they both put in 8 million each last season to keep our head above water. I suggest people read Bush Blade's excellent reply ( page 23 post 442 ) in the rumour mill on Connor Coady.

 

[S5Blade]

Maybe

 

[Whiston Blade]

Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere.

I hope I'm not one to overreact to a few losses - recall last season when we began the campaign disastrously?

The reason for this post is to gauge the likelihood of whether SUFC has the wherewithal to make a genuine push for promotion, either this season (unlikely in my view, something I commented on before this season began) or the next. Given that we had an extended stay in Division 1, it shouldn't come as a great surprise that we make whatever adjustments are necessary before launching ourselves into a promotion push.

Money is at the centre of football, so being in a position to back any claims to want to improve and become a Premiership team should be a priority for us. My question, and I suspect a view shared by many Blades, is whether the directors - which is a clumsy shorthand for McCabe and The Prince (the other directors seem to have little or no financial input into which players we purchase, correct?) - are capable, or willing, to match our Manager's aims and objectives. I doubt Wilder is unrealistic, but I think it's obvious he wants to be part of a club that has drive and ambition. I keep having this nagging doubt whether under the current board of directors we have the necessary ambition to push further than merely surviving in the Championship, am I wrong in that conclusion? I hope so.

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of other posters, about whether I seem to be in a minority, or whether my doubts are shared by other posters? I know this isn't a poll, at best they tend to be vague given the numbers that contribute to this forum, but everyone who posts on here is dedicated and wants the best for this club, so your opinions are invited and welcomed. UTMB!

I feel that the board, McCabe, HRH and the whole of Sheffield United football club has the ambition for us to eventually be an established PL team. How we get there is where I have my worries, it's just my opinion but I feel we'll try to get there via one of the cheapest routes possible.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to overspend but I don't want us to be cheap either. If this seasons memo from McCabe was survival using X budget and Wilder succeeds, McCabe should then push for a higher goal with a slightly bigger budget. But I feel he'll try to push us further up with the same budget and you can't do that. Yesterdays model wont work today and tomorrows will be different, too. If you want something to grow bigger and better, you keep feeding it.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

We had multiple ambitions when we reached the Premier League the last time round.

Unfortunately they were in other football clubs and hotels.

 

[BushBlade]

It's so easy to spend other peoples money, they both put in 8 million each last season to keep our head above water. I suggest people read Bush Blade's excellent reply ( page 23 post 442 ) in the rumour mill on Connor Coady.

Thanks but I don't think they put £16m into the club this season or any season since we got relegated to L1.

 

[sheffielder]

We have stepped up a league. No board and I mean no board would match wilders desire. Let's wait and see before slamming everything. What is wrong with people

 

[Sean Thornton]

Thanks but I don't think they put £16m into the club this season or any season since we got relegated to L1.

It was £4m each. However there has been an allotment of shares in Blades Leisure of £5.2m in June of this year.

Also, two directors have been appointed this month and four have had their appointments terminated. Including Kev!


Feel free to speculate as to why everyone

 

[Sean Thornton]

Similar at SuFC Ltd, Green Bettis and Baki gone. Tutton back, more share capital.

 

[SwissBlade]

itsinyerblood short answer, absolutely they have the same desire to succeed.

However, a much longer response would be that it's such a simplistic question which has an answer which isn't easy to demonstrate unless you throw tens of millions at a squad.

Reality is that even with ridiculous spending the results are not guaranteed.

Do Villas owners have less of a desire than ours or Millwall? And what is success? This year it would be staying up.

Wilder of course wants to do much more than stay up. Last season he wanted promotion but I'm sure he also wanted to win the league.

Success at Sheffield united is about progression. Yes we want to progress as fast as possible and yes it has to be sustainable. We'd all love back to back promotions but realism has to also kick in. Buy a 10m
Striker or a 20million centre midfielder and what do you have? A wage budget which then spirals and no guarantees of success

Realism and no guarantees are key here. We are on a progressive path to success and I don't see any evidence to suggest that the owners down to the players see it differently

 

[itsinyerblood]

I feel that the board, McCabe, HRH and the whole of Sheffield United football club has the ambition for us to eventually be an established PL team. How we get there is where I have my worries, it's just my opinion but I feel we'll try to get there via one of the cheapest routes possible.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to overspend but I don't want us to be cheap either. If this seasons memo from McCabe was survival using X budget and Wilder succeeds, McCabe should then push for a higher goal with a slightly bigger budget. But I feel he'll try to push us further up with the same budget and you can't do that. Yesterdays model wont work today and tomorrows will be different, too. If you want something to grow bigger and better, you keep feeding it.

I agree with the need to be fiscally sensible. Football can be a black hole for those who think that quick fixes are he answer. My question was more to do with our Manager's desire to drive forward and whether the club was able to keep up. After a series of managerial appointments that have been less than successful, I think I'm one of many who consider Wilder to be someone who can take us further than merely sitting comfortably in the Championship. It's a quandary of that I'm sure, but at the root of my question is whether we're currently equipped to back Wilder beyond the £600K - £1.5 million range of player who might be available to buy? The question answers itself I think, and the fact that our resources don't extend to a level we'd all like us to be part of is something I guess we'll have to get used to, at least for the immediate future. Should a benefactor appear out of nowhere, then perhaps we'll be able to bring in those players who currently are beyond our reach. Until something like that happens I think we'll have to allow our healthy cynicism to continue to thrive. UTB!

 

[BushBlade]

It was £4m each. However there has been an allotment of shares in Blades Leisure of £5.2m in June of this year.

Also, two directors have been appointed this month and four have had their appointments terminated. Including Kev!


Feel free to speculate as to why everyone

I think you may need to explain that a bit more clearly. Who have the shares been allotted to? How does it relate to the £8m investment made last year?

And am I correct in thinking Blades Leisure is the one that holds the club?

 

[Esablade]

Feel free to speculate as to why everyone

Probably because he knows nowt about football and like last time is more interested in the property/development side of the club.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Desire - Yes.

Finance/Capital - Possibly not. But then all managers would like a bigger budget.

Expectation - There may be differences between manager and board.

Timescales - Again, may be different, but just keep McCabe away from a microphone!

 

[Bladesman]

I think Wilder spoke about his ambition last night. He doesn't want us to be "just OK" he wants to be better, a lot better. Wilder isn't here to plod along like we did last time we fucked around in the Championship for over decade.

Do I think the club matches his ambition? Probably not.

 

[itsinyerblood]

itsinyerblood short answer, absolutely they have the same desire to succeed.

However, a much longer response would be that it's such a simplistic question which has an answer which isn't easy to demonstrate unless you throw tens of millions at a squad.

Reality is that even with ridiculous spending the results are not guaranteed.

Do Villas owners have less of a desire than ours or Millwall? And what is success? This year it would be staying up.

Wilder of course wants to do much more than stay up. Last season he wanted promotion but I'm sure he also wanted to win the league.

Success at Sheffield united is about progression. Yes we want to progress as fast as possible and yes it has to be sustainable. We'd all love back to back promotions but realism has to also kick in. Buy a 10m
Striker or a 20million centre midfielder and what do you have? A wage budget which then spirals and no guarantees of success

Realism and no guarantees are key here. We are on a progressive path to success and I don't see any evidence to suggest that the owners down to the players see it differently

Some fair questions in your post Swiss. I agree, a reply to my question might require a more detailed set of facts to demonstrate what we're capable of achieving.

I suppose what I'm getting at is whether Wilder's patience is prepared to wait while the club builds for the future. As for what's regarded as success, my take is to look at the likes of S'hampton or Stoke as some kind of matrix for what's possible. Financially we'll never be able to compete with Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Tottenham, Arsenal or Liverpool, that's just a fact of life.

As for your comment about evidence regarding ambition, if by that you mean enabling the club to pay it's bills and continue through to the next season, well I guess that's a question of interpretation about what the club wants for itself. This isn't a post knocking McCabe or the Prince, I understand and appreciate what they both contribute, but whether it's sufficient to take the steps necessary to move forward is what concerns me. By using comments that allude to building for the future, well I guess that means we might need the disposition of a saint, or at least the patience of one.

What enabled us to achieve promotion from Division 1 to the Championship wasn't good planning or some kind of masterly business strategy, it was a fortunate appointment. We had tried with several managerial appointments to gain promotion, but it was only with the appointment of Chris Wilder and Alan Knill that we finally got the answer we were all desperate to receive. The club's supporters are fully behind Wilder, it feels as if we have a manager who can lift this club higher than it's ambitions have been for some time. But to make this possible will require income on a level that until now we've not been used to.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think you may need to explain that a bit more clearly. Who have the shares been allotted to? How does it relate to the £8m investment made last year?

And am I correct in thinking Blades Leisure is the one that holds the club?

It doesn't state who too.

Additional.

Yes.

 

[BushBlade]

It doesn't state who too.

Additional.

Yes.

So are you saying someone as yet unknown has invested £5.2m in return for shares?

 

[Sean Thornton]

So are you saying someone as yet unknown has invested £5.2m in return for shares?

No. I'm saying the share allotment form doesn't give the details. I'd imagine its KMc and HRH covering losses but that's an opinion not a factpinion. Be surprised if it a new investor as it was done 30th June so would likely have leaked by now.

 

[bladesmanluke]

It's not a matter of whether the club wants promotion or not. Of course it does, but is the money there? If it's not there it cannot be spent. That simple.

It could be argued in the past, we haven't used the money available wisely. We have a bit of money at the moment from the sales of Walker and Maguire, but even this £6m is a paltry amount. Enough for one championship quality player. Despite being financially secure, we are a very poor football club at this level and don't currently have the means to strengthen much. Not only is a promotion push this season unrealistic, but next season also and for the foreseeable future until we find some further investment.

Our problem is not a lack of ambition. It is a lack of means to realise these ambitions.

 

[Harrisblade]

I feel that the board, McCabe, HRH and the whole of Sheffield United football club has the ambition for us to eventually be an established PL team. How we get there is where I have my worries, it's just my opinion but I feel we'll try to get there via one of the cheapest routes possible.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to overspend but I don't want us to be cheap either. If this seasons memo from McCabe was survival using X budget and Wilder succeeds, McCabe should then push for a higher goal with a slightly bigger budget. But I feel he'll try to push us further up with the same budget and you can't do that. Yesterdays model wont work today and tomorrows will be different, too. If you want something to grow bigger and better, you keep feeding it.

When did we last make the sort of bids that we (seem to be making) at the moment.
Still may not be enough, but surely more and higher value than earlier seasons?

 

[metalblade]

Like it or not until a Chansiri type buys the club any investment will be tiny by championship standards. Who in their right mind would by SUFC ? For a start McCabe would want his money back which is not going to happen, not many would consider investing while McCabe owns the stadium and Academy. McCabe can't or will not put a huge amount in for a promotion push instead he is content to sit it out and hope for another Dave Basset to turn up and do it on the cheap. Ambition maybe, the means to invest heavily most definitely not a willingness to sell the club at a reasonable price most definitely not, sorry to say it but Wilder and Knill could well be gone before their contracts expire.

 

[BushBlade]

No. I'm saying the share allotment form doesn't give the details. I'd imagine its KMc and HRH covering losses but that's an opinion not a factpinion. Be surprised if it a new investor as it was done 30th June so would likely have leaked by now.

I didn't say new investor. I said persons unknown. Simple question - has someone invested £5.2m in the club in June or not?

 

[Harrisblade]

McCabe can't or will not put a huge amount in for a promotion push instead he is content to sit it out and hope for another Dave Basset to turn up and do it on the cheap.

And you know that how exactly?

 

[metalblade]

And you know that how exactly?

You only have to look at recent history. We have a windfall of another £5m which we weren't expecting do you think we will spend over and above this amount in this transfer window? we are still waiting to see the promised "significant" investment that should be kicking in now we have reached the championship. I'd be interested to hear why you think otherwise ?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I didn't say new investor. I said persons unknown. Simple question - has someone invested £5.2m in the club in June or not?

It's a share allotment. Paid for in cash. £5.2m.

If the shares weren't fully paid for or the consideration was something other than cash, I would have said so.

So yes, a cash investment of £5.2m has been made.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You only have to look at recent history. We have a windfall of another £5m which we weren't expecting do you think we will spend over and above this amount in this transfer window? we are still waiting to see the promised "significant" investment that should be kicking in now we have reached the championship. I'd be interested to hear why you think otherwise ?

If Jim were still on the board the sell on money would be a significant investment because the owners haven't taken it out.

The end of the world may be nigh but I agree with metalblade here. Not so much about spending the Kyle money because as I've said I suspect that will just cover losses but that there has been no significant investment in the team. Obviously £5.2m has gone in probably to cover last seasons loss but my recall is that the SI touted was on players. I can't see where that has happened as yet.