Wise Investment Vs 'Spunkin-it'

[raul]

I'm not bothered about wise investment I just want the best players we can get within our means.

So, wise investments then?

 

[robbiez666]

It would be worrying if we couldn't afford to spend £500k on Leonard, if Wilder wants to.

I'm not panicking. Just a few stories starting to slip out. It's a quiet new period, so maybe nothing to worry about.

There were a few stories at the start of last season, if I remember correctly, as well.

When we splash the cash and sign that Diego de Girolamo, this will all be forgotten. Italy's future legend.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Top half of the championship?
Where did McCabe say this?

I remember here him say summat like 'he doesn't look at what other teams are doing'

Sure this was quoted, if it wasn't it should have been.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

According to the Southend forum our highest and latest bid is 350k for Leanord.

TBH I'm getting a little concerned about our transfer dealings so far. The fact we're going in with clearly low bids for top league one talent is a little worrying. The fact there's not even any rumours of bids for good established Championship talent is even more worrying.

Early days still and I have faith in Wilder, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit I was hoping for more than we've seen so far.

I must say I feel the opposite to that. I think the 4 incoming will all be very good additions and we've got them for next to nothing. I think the Holmes and Leonard sagas are tedious but it's not like clubs are queuing up to bid for them and we hear they want to come here, so it's a waiting game and in Leonard's case particularly their club stand to lose a lot if the clock runs down on them. So we're in an advantageous position. I expect £500k would seal that deal, but no rush.

I'm not concerned about Wilder's judgement in terms of picking the right players but I think he has his hands tied in terms of the funds available to him. We've been in the backwater of League 1 for such a long time and that's had a big impact on finances. We're not really on a par financially to compete with "smaller" clubs even in the Championship. But if we recruit continue to recruit wisely then anything is possible.

Early days yet. 4 signed already. New goalie next up I reckon.

Adam Smith anyone?

 

[YES Blade]

The evidence is in the time spent trying to lure these players, for me and only my opinion if we are struggling to get these over the line it does not bode well.

Agreed, if we were talking a player at a Championship club for £2m or signing Jags, I could understand it dragging on.

But these are League One players, I know they aren't going to give them away but I'd like to think now we're a Championship club we could get the deal done without too much fuss.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Today's local rag. Southend echo,Leonard, " I expect to be playing for Southend this season" .
Just saying.

He also said he doesn't know what's happening and it's all out of his hands. I think he spoke to assure fans of his comittment but he left it open. There was no "I'm going nowhere" statement which is revealing in itself.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I think Boyd and Snodgrass are great signings at this level. If they sign both then they've done well so far.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

Last season we did some of our best business in August, so hold your horses.

We're in the market for clubs BEST players and winners, of whom do not want to part with their priced assets.

In Wilder we trust!

 

[Pinchy]

The fallacy that we will be relegated if we don't sign more players is just that. We'll be fine.

Some people are getting carried away by the tidal flow of their own nonsense and treating their cap-doffing inferiority complex as equivalent to established fact. It's nothing of the sort.

 

[Pinchy]

He also said he doesn't know what's happening and it's all out of his hands. I think he spoke to assure fans of his comittment but he left it open. There was no "I'm going nowhere" statement which is revealing in itself.

The deafening silence on a new deal is even more significant.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

...which has little to do with how long they've been in the Champ and all to do with their owner stumping up the cash.

But it does. We've just been promoted and are yet to prove ourselves at this level. There's nothing to say we won't be back in League One come next May. Therefore, rightly or wrongly our owners don't want to saddle the club with massive salaried.

Them lot on the other hand are an established top half Championship side so the owners can confidently absorb £40k salaries...

 

[raul]

I think Boyd and Snodgrass are great signings at this level. If they sign both then they've done well so far.

Fools. Wait until January when the kitty is empty whilst we will be chucking out 100k bids left right and centre for Leonard and Holmes. Who'll be laughing then?

 

[Revolution]

But it does. We've just been promoted and are yet to prove ourselves at this level. There's nothing to say we won't be back in League One come next May. Therefore, rightly or wrongly our owners don't want to saddle the club with massive salaried.

Them lot on the other hand are an established top half Championship side so the owners can confidently absorb £40k salaries...

I don't follow this argument. We were an established top half Championship side when we suddenly collapsed and got relegated in 2011. We hadn't finished lower than 10th in the division since 2002.

They can't absorb the salaries because of league position. They can absorb them because those funding them are (a) willing to do it and (b) can do it.

 

[Esablade]

But it does. We've just been promoted and are yet to prove ourselves at this level. There's nothing to say we won't be back in League One come next May. Therefore, rightly or wrongly our owners don't want to saddle the club with massive salaried.

Them lot on the other hand are an established top half Championship side so the owners can confidently absorb £40k salaries...

There is s fear factor/caution at work here, nowt wrong with that, most clubs appear to have modest increase in budget in the first year back.

Still, the only way to 'absorb' £40K salaries/10 million transfers fee's is if the owner is putting in some serious dosh.

McCabe has stated we need to find 'new investors' ( like t'pigs) if we are going to step up financially...the 'think Liverpool/wait till the Champ to see investment' being, well...bollocks.

I suspect McCabe feel's he's chucked in more than enough to the club over the years and it's simply about maintainance/keeping the ship running until someone else steps up to the plate ( if that means bobbing up and down between leagues, so be it, though not sure the fans will see it that way) ..as for Princey, who knows...perhaps he feels the similar..

I don't see how this approach will change drastically over time, they'll be looking at Udders/Barnsley and thinking you can compete with lower end budgets ( though their budgets are significantly higher than ours)...and with Wilder, they may be right.

UTB!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Fools. Wait until January when the kitty is empty whilst we will be chucking out 100k bids left right and centre for Leonard and Holmes. Who'll be laughing then?

I didn't say value for money but with Snodgrass, Boyd and Rohdes I think they'll be expecting a good return, they've all been consistent performers at this level, even if one can't bring himself to take a penalty.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I don't follow this argument. We were an established top half Championship side when we suddenly collapsed and got relegated in 2011. We hadn't finished lower than 10th in the division since 2002.

They can't absorb the salaries because of league position. They can absorb them because those funding them are (a) willing to do it and (b) can do it.

Its a pretty straightforward 'argument' to follow...

It looks like McCabe et al won't be investing heavily in the playing staff (paying Championship level wages etc) until we've demonstrated an ability to be able to stay in the division. Maybe even bank some of the TV money to act as collateral for future investment.

Like it or not, that's what the evidence is showing. Bit like a small business going in to the bank and the bank turning round and saying, prove you can stay in business for a year and then we'll invest in you.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's what the evidence is showing. The Pigs on the otherhand have shown they're a top 6 side in the Championship so their owners are more inclined to 'spunk' money as their ROI is closer to fruition.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

There is s fear factor/caution at work here, nowt wrong with that, most clubs appear to have modest increase in budget in the first year back.

Still, the only way to 'absorb' £40K salaries/10 million transfers fee's is if the owner is putting in some serious dosh.

McCabe has stated we need to find 'new investors' ( like t'pigs) if we are going to step up financially...the 'think Liverpool/wait till the Champ to see investment' being, well...bollocks.

I suspect McCabe feel's he's chucked in more than enough to the club over the years and it's simply about maintainance/keeping the ship running until someone else steps up to the plate ( if that means bobbing up and down between leagues, so be it, though not sure the fans will see it that way) ..as for Princey, who knows...perhaps he feels the similar..

I don't see how this approach will change drastically over time, they'll be looking at Udders/Barnsley and thinking you can compete with lower end budgets ( though their budgets are significantly higher than ours)...and with Wilder, they may be right.

UTB!

'Fear factor' - you've hit the nail on the head. Looks like McCabe is shit scared of jumping on the Wilder Band Wagon, investing heavily and then finding ourselves back in League One.

 

[BushBlade]

Its a pretty straightforward 'argument' to follow...

It looks like McCabe et al won't be investing heavily in the playing staff (paying Championship level wages etc) until we've demonstrated an ability to be able to stay in the division. Maybe even bank some of the TV money to act as collateral for future investment.

Like it or not, that's what the evidence is showing. Bit like a small business going in to the bank and the bank turning round and saying, prove you can stay in business for a year and then we'll invest in you.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's what the evidence is showing. The Pigs on the otherhand have shown they're a top 6 side in the Championship so their owners are more inclined to 'spunk' money as their ROI is closer to fruition.

Almost every club in the championship loses money. The longer you're in it, the more you lose. We simply won't stay in the league for a significant length of time with a break even budget.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Its a pretty straightforward 'argument' to follow...

It looks like McCabe et al won't be investing heavily in the playing staff (paying Championship level wages etc) until we've demonstrated an ability to be able to stay in the division. Maybe even bank some of the TV money to act as collateral for future investment.

Like it or not, that's what the evidence is showing. Bit like a small business going in to the bank and the bank turning round and saying, prove you can stay in business for a year and then we'll invest in you.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's what the evidence is showing. The Pigs on the otherhand have shown they're a top 6 side in the Championship so their owners are more inclined to 'spunk' money as their ROI is closer to fruition.

That's just factually incorrect.The pigs are a top 6 side because their owners invested big money - the owners did not wait for the club to prove it was a top 6 side first as you suggest. The pigs were going nowhere until ladyboy came along and invested big money.

 

[sufcboy95]

It's a very fine line between wise investment and wasting money. It's all based on results. Look at our neighbors, it looks like they've wasted ten million on Rhodes, however if he was to score 25 goals next season and them go up, it's then wise investment

 

[Revolution]

Its a pretty straightforward 'argument' to follow...

It looks like McCabe et al won't be investing heavily in the playing staff (paying Championship level wages etc) until we've demonstrated an ability to be able to stay in the division. Maybe even bank some of the TV money to act as collateral for future investment.

Like it or not, that's what the evidence is showing. Bit like a small business going in to the bank and the bank turning round and saying, prove you can stay in business for a year and then we'll invest in you.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's what the evidence is showing. The Pigs on the otherhand have shown they're a top 6 side in the Championship so their owners are more inclined to 'spunk' money as their ROI is closer to fruition.

Seems to me that the possible reasons why McCabe may want to keep a tight rein on spending are:

1. He and the Prince may not be able to achieve consensus about what has to be put in.

2. He genuinely was not expecting the average wages and fees paid in the second tier to have gone up so much.

3. He thinks Wilder can keep the team up, and possibly do better than just survive, without significant money going in (and he may be right).

4. He thinks that if Huddersfield can do it cheaply, why can't we? (this is the same thinking that gave us David Weir in charge with no money the season after Yeovil got promoted. It is dangerous thinking)

5. He thinks that he spent loads in the Robson era and that did no good, so why bother? (an argument that many advance on here which I think is fundamentally flawed)

6. He wants to spend as little as possible of his own money (wouldn't we all in the same situation?)

7. He doesn't have much to put in.

I suspect it's a combination of 3 or 4 of these reasons. If the only reason is the one you advance, however, that's very dangerous. If we don't invest and go down again, why would anyone think we'd come straight back up? How did that work out last time?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Seems to me that the possible reasons why McCabe may want to keep a tight rein on spending are:

1. He and the Prince may not be able to achieve consensus about what has to be put in.

2. He genuinely was not expecting the average wages and fees paid in the second tier to have gone up so much.

3. He thinks Wilder can keep the team up, and possibly do better than just survive, without significant money going in (and he may be right).

4. He thinks that if Huddersfield can do it cheaply, why can't we? (this is the same thinking that gave us David Weir in charge with no money the season after Yeovil got promoted. It is dangerous thinking)

5. He thinks that he spent loads in the Robson era and that did no good, so why bother? (an argument that many advance on here which I think is fundamentally flawed)

6. He wants to spend as little as possible of his own money (wouldn't we all in the same situation?)

7. He doesn't have much to put in.

I suspect it's a combination of 3 or 4 of these reasons. If the only reason is the one you advance, however, that's very dangerous. If we don't invest and go down again, why would anyone think we'd come straight back up? How did that work out last time?

I'd say 6 and 7 Could be closer to the truth...

 

[Grecian2000]

Adam Smith anyone?

'kin hope not.

Walthy and the gang will never stop quoting him.

 

[BushBlade]

'kin hope not.

Walthy and the gang will never stop quoting him.

Yeah, fuck him and his institute.

 

[sufcboy95]

In modern day football you don't pay what you think the player is worth. If you want the player, you pay what the parent club asks for and that's it

 

[I should coco]

In modern day football you don't pay what you think the player is worth. If you want the player, you pay what the parent club asks for and that's it

Or you move on to number two on your list.

Then number three.....

 

[Mario1889]

Just playing devils advocate here but when talking about "wise investment and spunkin it", how would most fans have felt if we'd signed Phil Jagielka when we were heavily linked with him a few weeks ago?

Like many I'd have loved to have seen him back at BDTBL but his wages would have surely been far in excess of others in the squad.

Would fans view the huge outlay in wages as a wise investor or spunkin it?

 

[broomhillblade]

Most footballers are vastly overvalued and overpaid.

Wilder is doing exactly the right thing.

 

[sufcboy95]

Or you move on to number two on your list.

Then number three.....

Then you end up with a player that you didn't want and a player that isn't good enough...= bad season

 

[snootyfenooty]

In modern day football you don't pay what you think the player is worth. If you want the player, you pay what the parent club asks for and that's it

Unless you're buying from us of course.