Awards keep coming....

[Grizzly blade]

pommpey

You did it again.....took the point made, and then suggested he was talking about paying into this forum when you really knew he was talking about the club and having your say.
He has quite rightly mentioned the costs of calling off games, and the total cost for the project was costed over 10 years, while academy and pitch was mentioned as being £1.8m total cost by admin.
I in turn earlier stated how the pitches could have been funded...through several different player sales, or the Fa cup run the preceding season. While the club clearly stated the cup run funded it. Of course it was Clough who advocated the overhaul of the pitches but that's a different issue.

So that is a cost of £180k a season over 10 years. So if you look at savings over the same 10 year period on each season, and Then saved just one game from being called off, that's £70k saved....plus the overhaul costs per season of the old pitch at 100k, minus the lower costs of upkeep of the desso.

So there we have it....savings on upkeep and lost revenue almost cover the whole outlay over the 10 years.
Then take into account using the lane for other revenue streams, such as the Kell fight... that will be a useful amount too which we could speculate over. But even if it's only 50k to use the place....it's still £50k, plus the potential exposure a fight like this gives.
So there we have it....very little actual cost as it is practically self funding. Unlike player fees and wages which are gone. And even then they might not play or be on a level brought in by a fuckwit.

But, like it or not....and you won't answer obviously, the pitch still contributes to allowing the team to play the standard of football it has this season. Last season, the players weren't capable of it anyway. Thankfully we have players able to make the best use of it. And I know we have won games away from home...but as was pointed out we only play half our games away, and most of them in league one don't have the problems associated with large stadia and pitches. In fact most surfaces aren't too bad.
But the fact we no longer have the shit we had before...the poor drainage and the grass pest which basically destroyed the roots and needed tonnes of sand applying means we no longer play most weeks on an oldham type pitch. (And if you had gone, you would have known how bad it was)

The beauty is....that watching good football brings in punters. It raises your profile as a club and the whole club needed to lose the tag of being a lump it side, who's best tactic was to get the big boys down and drag them down to our level....ala Colin.
It has been a priority of the owner and club for some time to change the style of play, and the reason why Cackwell was given players like Britton and Dyer but failed to use them. When Clough was here, he was brought in as a manager who was going to play possession football but replied it was impossible on the lane pitch....hence the decision to pay out when we had an unexpected cup run with associated revenue increase that wasn't expected or costed prior to the season start.

And me and many others believe it was a good decision. You are alone in your bizarre opinion.

 

[pommpey]

pommpey

You did it again.....took the point made, and then suggested he was talking about paying into this forum when you really knew he was talking about the club and having your say.

Hold on. He's suggesting I don't have any valid point unless I put some sort of investment in the club. It's you who are misunderstanding the whole wearisome lead of this thread. Read Mobile's daft outburst and don't try to bend this into the top corner. It is here I voice my opinion, not the shareholder's meeting. This is not a shareholder's board. Are we quite clear?

He has quite rightly mentioned the costs of calling off games, and the total cost for the project was costed over 10 years, while academy and pitch was mentioned as being £1.8m total cost by admin.
I in turn earlier stated how the pitches could have been funded...through several different player sales, or the Fa cup run the preceding season. While the club clearly stated the cup run funded it. Of course it was Clough who advocated the overhaul of the pitches but that's a different issue.

So the pitch was funded by player sales. Or it wasn't. Was it? What point are you making here?

So that is a cost of £180k a season over 10 years. So if you look at savings over the same 10 year period on each season, and Then saved just one game from being called off, that's £70k saved....plus the overhaul costs per season of the old pitch at 100k, minus the lower costs of upkeep of the desso.

So there we have it....savings on upkeep and lost revenue almost cover the whole outlay over the 10 years.
Then take into account using the lane for other revenue streams, such as the Kell fight... that will be a useful amount too which we could speculate over. But even if it's only 50k to use the place....it's still £50k, plus the potential exposure a fight like this gives.
So there we have it....very little actual cost as it is practically self funding. Unlike player fees and wages which are gone. And even then they might not play or be on a level brought in by a fuckwit.

... eyes glazing over ...

Look. Around about the time we had one point whatever million sloshing about in the club's bank account courtesy of (let's say) the FA Cup run, our back four looked like slapped shit. We had a misfiring central defender, and a whole host of guest centre backs who were anything but. Now call me old fashioned, but I'd have rather the club spent wisely on playing staff such as defenders who may have stopped (for example) Swindon's two goals in the home playoff game or even the fucking calamitous display away at the County Ground a few days later. Like I say, it's only my opinion. The numbers are there if you want to check them up and I'm not calling your mum a cunt here, so please don't get all upset. Our defence did need massive investment that season. Those two games were pretty good examples, but not in any way isolated. Even in the pre-season friendless, we looked dangerously fragile at the back.

But, like it or not....and you won't answer obviously, the pitch still contributes to allowing the team to play the standard of football it has this season. Last season, the players weren't capable of it anyway. Thankfully we have players able to make the best use of it. And I know we have won games away from home...but as was pointed out we only play half our games away, and most of them in league one don't have the problems associated with large stadia and pitches. In fact most surfaces aren't too bad.

What point are you making here? Is it:

a. This season its different
b. We have better players
c. We have won games not playing on the Desso
d. Div One pitches are shit

I'd agree with all of those. Are we disagreeing on agreeing here?

But the fact we no longer have the shit we had before...the poor drainage and the grass pest which basically destroyed the roots and needed tonnes of sand applying means we no longer play most weeks on an oldham type pitch. (And if you had gone, you would have known how bad it was)

So now you're blaming the pitch now for past failures? Maybe you should tell McCabe, because he sacked a fucktonne of managers and wasted lots of money doing so.

The beauty is....that watching good football brings in punters. It raises your profile as a club and the whole club needed to lose the tag of being a lump it side, who's best tactic was to get the big boys down and drag them down to our level....ala Colin.

We ... um ... had a pretty decent level of success under 'Colin'. We didn't spend six seasons in division three. Again, I am not shitting through your letterbox here. The ... erm ... statistics show us even being in the PL at some time under him. And yeah ... the income was good and the club's profile was pretty healthy. Since he was sacked? Well, we got a great pitch until McCabe finally shook the dice and got Wilder, thank fuck.

It has been a priority of the owner and club for some time to change the style of play, and the reason why Cackwell was given players like Britton and Dyer but failed to use them. When Clough was here, he was brought in as a manager who was going to play possession football but replied it was impossible on the lane pitch....hence the decision to pay out when we had an unexpected cup run with associated revenue increase that wasn't expected or costed prior to the season start.

It was impossible, because we didn't have the players to play possession football. Doyle? Flynn? Baxter? JCR? Even Matty Done. None of them have the craft or culture of our present midfield.

And me and many others believe it was a good decision. You are alone in your bizarre opinion.

And strangely I respect your opinion. You and your 'mates' need to show equal respect to acknowledge that some disagree with you (and many are understandably fucking sick of this debate so don't bother to contribute) I disagree showing evidence as to why I think its wrong. Its a pity you and your mates don't reciprocate and play the dull, boring 'how many games have you been to' hand to still score 'nil points' because its what you do.

pommpey

 

[Snowman]

I like it. It's quite green and doesn't go all brown and sandy like it used to. xxx

 

[HermitageBlade]

I've not checked the accounts, but from memory, we were looking at around £1.8mil for the Lane and the upgrades to the surfaces at the academy.

They may have spent money on them but they aren't the desso pitches as it probably would have cost the same amount again per pitch which Is a big outlay in league one. Also when we get to the premiership (positivity) and they have got the money I can see them moving so it would be a waste.

 

[Grizzly blade]

pommpey
And our reputation in the top league was one of the plucky underdog enjoying its day in the sun because we were small time, trying to drag the big boys down with our ale house brand of football and questionable tactics.
If we were to become a force things needed to change. Shame he got the manager appointment wrong.
I can't make my points any simpler for you to fathom, inhave dumbed it down the best I can.
If we played on an Oldham pitch at Home this season, we wouldn't have had some of the performances we did and as a consequence may well have not won so many.
The pitches away from home aren't as bad as ours was in the last few years. What is there in that which is so hard for you to understand? Are you thick? Or intentionally belligerent?

There is clearly no point trying to discuss this with you any further. You take snippets of a quote and change the context of the conversation so you can swing the discussion in another direction, a typical tactic by someone ignoring points and dodging the question because they won't admit they are wrong and will muddy the discussion to try and cover their failings.
Im more than happy to chat football with anyone who is prepared to listen and take on board what's being said, however.

I've read your posts and still have no idea what your problem is.
According to you You don't think we should have spent the money on the pitch as it's too expensive, the money should have been spent on defenders (even though it was the middle of a transfer window) and this could have helped the club go up...even though of course that's no guarantee and ignores the fact the club made several attempts to get these types of players but failed due to club demands or refusals. (A fact I know due to my contact with the man responsible for the friggin transfer deals) You also state This season the pitch had no positive effect on his teams performances at all because we still won games away from home.

So despite all the points put across by me and others, many which you conveniently ignore, and several simple questions you were asked in which to gauge your opinion in the debate, i feel I cannot give any more of my time to you. It's pointless.
You are a lost cause because you tell me you want evidence and then ignore it, while telling me you give evidence to back your opinion which is nothing more than just more of your opinion with an agenda attached.

I can't be arsed anymore.

 

[pommpey]

pommpey
And our reputation in the top league was one of the plucky underdog enjoying its day in the sun because we were small time, trying to drag the big boys down with our ale house brand of football and questionable tactics.
If we were to become a force things needed to change. Shame he got the manager appointment wrong.

Yeah. Shit changed. Relegated twice and marooned in division one for six seasons. I'll take ale-house football and questionable tactics to capitulation to the likes of Fleetwood and Shrewsbury. You obviously differ in opinion.

I can't make my points any simpler for you to fathom, inhave dumbed it down the best I can.

Cheers. Because you seem to be dumbing stuff down where even you don't seem to understand what the fuck you are on about.

If we played on an Oldham pitch at Home this season, we wouldn't have had some of the performances we did and as a consequence may well have not won so many.

So, in essence, you are blaming our continued poor performance in past years on the state of the pitch then? You can't disassociate from that posit. It is there to see. I'm not 'bending facts'. And on balance, you still (as all your 'mates' do as well) fail to account for us winning away from home. Oh, hang on ....

The pitches away from home aren't as bad as ours was in the last few years.

By what measure? What comparator are you using there or is it 'I have seen them, you haven't'? Okay. I will take your word on that. But it's stretching the imagination somewhat when in 2015-16:

Port Vale 2 - 1 Sheffield United
Crewe Alexandra 1 - 0 Sheffield United
Bury 1 - 0 Sheffield United
Rochdale 2 - 0 Sheffield United
Millwall 1 - 0 Sheffield United
Southend Unted 3 - 1 Sheffield United
Coventry City 3 - 1 Sheffield United

and fuck me, in twelve breathtaking months, all of those clubs (except the relegated Crewe Alexandra and Millwall) managed to up their pitch standards to such a level that we went away and put them to the sword or at least, come away with a point. That's what you are suggesting, isn't it? We have won away this season because all the away pitches 'aren't that bad'? Seems they were in 2015-16. Or is it nothing to do with the pitch as much as it is to do with the team and manager? Again ... not being ...

... so hard for you to understand? ... thick? ... intentionally belligerent?

... just pulling up some facts which disprove your shrill efforts to counter my argument.

There is clearly no point trying to discuss this with you any further. You take snippets of a quote and change the context of the conversation so you can swing the discussion in another direction, a typical tactic by someone ignoring points and dodging the question because they won't admit they are wrong and will muddy the discussion to try and cover their failings.

Ha. Pot ... kettle ...

Im more than happy to chat football with anyone who is prepared to listen and take on board what's being said, however.

What makes you think I am not 'listening'? I am. I am not agreeing with you. I am submitting proof, not assumptions and suppositions. I could suppose we signed Messi and the little bitey fucker and Ronaldo. I could assume we get automatically promoted next season. In reality though ...

I've read your posts and still have no idea what your problem is.

Hurray! Here we go ...

According to you You don't think we should have spent the money on the pitch as it's too expensive, the money should have been spent on defenders (even though it was the middle of a transfer window) and this could have helped the club go up...even though of course that's no guarantee and ignores the fact the club made several attempts to get these types of players but failed due to club demands or refusals. (A fact I know due to my contact with the man responsible for the friggin transfer deals)

Yeah. Well I know the man who has all the money at BDTBL, most of the board members and the tea-lady. I also own the club. McCabe works for me. You do see where I am coming from here, don't you? This is the internet. Home of the fantasist and bullshitter. And yes, I do think that a million quid could have been better spent on at least one decent central defender, being as we were leaking goals like water and the back four was frankly shit. You may beg to differ as Bob H, McEveley, Collins and a below par Beard was clearly tippity-top, as long as we were buying a sassy pitch. Our midfield and attack was pretty gash as well. But, y'know, if it means you watched Peterborough and Shrewsbury turn us over on the Desso, then who am I to disagree? Except I do.

You also state This season the pitch had no positive effect on his teams performances at all because we still won games away from home.

Yeah. If the Desso was that crucial, then the team of clearly better players would have been unable to play this fast, passing football on anything else than that surface, would they not? But as the facts show the last time we lost away was January, against Walsall, a team who strangely came to BDTBL and beat us o our own wonderful pitch. Work that one out.

So despite all the points put across by me and others, many which you conveniently ignore, and several simple questions you were asked in which to gauge your opinion in the debate, i feel I cannot give any more of my time to you. It's pointless.

I have answered every single one of your rather odd claims with simple stats and facts. Nothing you, or your 'mates' say about the Desso supports the claims. It looks good, we might make some small honourary from its use outside football (but no real facts on how this will affect Sheffield United Football Club, mind) But 'instrumental in the success of this season'? I would say microscopically compared to one Chris Wilder, one Alan Knill, their abilities and McCabe not shitting in the fans chip bag around the transfer windows. And fuck me, we have ran away with this season, home and away, with some startlingly great results and a final realisation of the capability of the club's potential. UTB.

You are a lost cause because you tell me you want evidence and then ignore it, while telling me you give evidence to back your opinion which is nothing more than just more of your opinion with an agenda attached.

I think exactly the opposite is the case. You give me vague supposition and assumption, you get stats and facts and really basic ones at that. It is you who seem to be ignoring them.

I can't be arsed anymore.

Good call.

pommpey

 

[Tunstall Fred]

pommpey
And our reputation in the top league was one of the plucky underdog enjoying its day in the sun because we were small time, trying to drag the big boys down with our ale house brand of football and questionable tactics.
If we were to become a force things needed to change. Shame he got the manager appointment wrong.
I can't make my points any simpler for you to fathom, inhave dumbed it down the best I can.
If we played on an Oldham pitch at Home this season, we wouldn't have had some of the performances we did and as a consequence may well have not won so many.
The pitches away from home aren't as bad as ours was in the last few years. What is there in that which is so hard for you to understand? Are you thick? Or intentionally belligerent?

There is clearly no point trying to discuss this with you any further. You take snippets of a quote and change the context of the conversation so you can swing the discussion in another direction, a typical tactic by someone ignoring points and dodging the question because they won't admit they are wrong and will muddy the discussion to try and cover their failings.
Im more than happy to chat football with anyone who is prepared to listen and take on board what's being said, however.

I've read your posts and still have no idea what your problem is.
According to you You don't think we should have spent the money on the pitch as it's too expensive, the money should have been spent on defenders (even though it was the middle of a transfer window) and this could have helped the club go up...even though of course that's no guarantee and ignores the fact the club made several attempts to get these types of players but failed due to club demands or refusals. (A fact I know due to my contact with the man responsible for the friggin transfer deals) You also state This season the pitch had no positive effect on his teams performances at all because we still won games away from home.

So despite all the points put across by me and others, many which you conveniently ignore, and several simple questions you were asked in which to gauge your opinion in the debate, i feel I cannot give any more of my time to you. It's pointless.
You are a lost cause because you tell me you want evidence and then ignore it, while telling me you give evidence to back your opinion which is nothing more than just more of your opinion with an agenda attached.

I can't be arsed anymore.

Well said

 

[Kenilworth]

Bloody Hell!
Is Leo Tolstoy now in charge of post length in this thread?

 

[I should coco]

So the pitch was funded by player sales. Or it wasn't. Was it? What point are you making here?

Pommpey

I've argued with you about the Desso and clearly neither of us will change our minds, but I think Bush has it spot on with this quote:

Would not installing the Desso and giving the money to Adkins instead have got us promoted? Can't say for certain but I very much doubt it.

If your main thrust is that McCabe shouldn't have sold a player to fund it, just step back and consider the alternative. Adkins spends the money on a fee and wages for another 'proven quality player', like Woolford and Hammond.....

We've had it two years, of which one was an unmitigated disaster and another a fantastic triumph. Can we just agree it looks nice and it is here for good? If not, I might have to start some 'What a waste of money that South Stand was....' threads.

 

[pommpey]

Pommpey
I've argued with you about the Desso and clearly neither of us will change our minds, but I think Bush has it spot on with this quote:
f your main thrust is that McCabe shouldn't have sold a player to fund it, just step back and consider the alternative. Adkins spends the money on a fee and wages for another 'proven quality player', like Woolford and Hammond......

There's a point there coco. But even though fans disliked Adkins and his seemingly vacuous method of managing a football team with expectations to get out of L1 at the fifth attempt, I doubt he was expecting the sale of the previous season's top scorer as an opening gambit, and being told that the proceeds would be used to pay wages. Left with that, the choice of signing Sammon, Hammond and Woolford are seriously bottom-of-the-barrel options. We cite Clough and Adkins 'wasting money', but no one is ever sure of exactly how much and in what quantities and over what time period. We do however have an idea what the pitch cost and where the cash came from (so it seems)

We've had it two years, of which one was an unmitigated disaster and another a fantastic triumph. Can we just agree it looks nice and it is here for good?

Here's my take on 'the pitch'. It is undoubtedly a fucking awesome piece of technology, and must be a dream to play on (and I have played on some fucking woeful pitches in and around Sheffield in my youth from Ecclesfield to somewhere out in a field at Owler Bar, the bottom set at Concord Park to the junior pitch at Herdings Park) Having played on artificial pitches of various descriptions all over the world (and some pitches you could hardly classify as playable) I would imagine the accuracy and stability of ball play is a boon to your confidence, and yes, although unproven, the reduction of injuries (may be) is a factor. But no one can convince me it is any more significant than the arrival of a manager (at the xth attempt) and his back room staff (at the expense of paying off countless others) and his methods and recruitment which has been the real paradigm shift in our fortunes. Scrolling back, people on here were slapping dicks about this award as if it proves anything. It proves simply that it is a good playing surface and not a complete reason we have won so many games this season.

pommpey

 

[Tunstall Fred]

The award is for having the best pitch/playing surface in the 3rd Division,voted by an independent panel,in the groundsman's eyes it will be like winning an Oscar,so congratulations are in order i feel.

Anyone ever played at a pitch at Owler Bar?

 

[I should coco]

Anyone ever played at a pitch at Owler Bar?

No but there were usually those nice sort of girls with grass stains on their arses at Fannys, if that helps?

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

The award is for having the best pitch/playing surface in the 3rd Division,voted by an independent panel,in the groundsman's eyes it will be like winning an Oscar,so congratulations are in order i feel.

Anyone ever played at a pitch at Owler Bar?

BadBuy jr played on the Owler Bar pitch, pre-Desso. It had a big dip in it, more like a shallow crater, on the Meccano Stand side. The exposed topsoil was gritty. It was foul.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

BabdBuy jr played on the Owler Bar pitch, pre-Desso. It had a big dip in it, more like a shallow crater, on the Meccano Stand side. The exposed topsoil was gritty. It was foul.

Did you know that the Owler Bar roundabout is in the shape of the illegal racetrack,set up by the workers who dug the Totley Tunnel?

 

[Houso]

There's a point there coco. But even though fans disliked Adkins and his seemingly vacuous method of managing a football team with expectations to get out of L1 at the fifth attempt, I doubt he was expecting the sale of the previous season's top scorer as an opening gambit, and being told that the proceeds would be used to pay wages. Left with that, the choice of signing Sammon, Hammond and Woolford are seriously bottom-of-the-barrel options. We cite Clough and Adkins 'wasting money', but no one is ever sure of exactly how much and in what quantities and over what time period. We do however have an idea what the pitch cost and where the cash came from (so it seems)

Here's my take on 'the pitch'. It is undoubtedly a fucking awesome piece of technology, and must be a dream to play on (and I have played on some fucking woeful pitches in and around Sheffield in my youth from Ecclesfield to somewhere out in a field at Owler Bar, the bottom set at Concord Park to the junior pitch at Herdings Park) Having played on artificial pitches of various descriptions all over the world (and some pitches you could hardly classify as playable) I would imagine the accuracy and stability of ball play is a boon to your confidence, and yes, although unproven, the reduction of injuries (may be) is a factor. But no one can convince me it is any more significant than the arrival of a manager (at the xth attempt) and his back room staff (at the expense of paying off countless others) and his methods and recruitment which has been the real paradigm shift in our fortunes. Scrolling back, people on here were slapping dicks about this award as if it proves anything. It proves simply that it is a good playing surface and not a complete reason we have won so many games this season.

pommpey

The main thing I took from that is that pommps was upset to not be part of the "dick slapping".

I can point the way to a local Turkish Bathhouse if that makes you feel better m8?

 

[Fanny magnet]

Is the desso pitch a good thing or not ? Just interested in what people's opinions are on it as ive not seen much about it on the forum

 

[Grizzly blade]

I don't think anyone on here has at any point said the pitch is the main reason for the success...merely a factor.

Initially it was to congratulate the groundsman and team for their hard work, and to state that we had won another award as a club.

Amusingly, it has descended into a debate over managers, players, who funded the pitch, how it is to be maintained and so on!

A good investment for the long term, and will do more for the first teams chances of success than the hotel, the deal in China, links in South America and the hiring of expensive players on their way down who believe they are worth the extortionate salaries.

 

[BushBlade]

Did you know that the Owler Bar roundabout is in the shape of the illegal racetrack,set up by the workers who dug the Totley Tunnel?

What were they racing?

 

[pommpey]

BadBuy jr played on the Owler Bar pitch, pre-Desso. It had a big dip in it, more like a shallow crater, on the Meccano Stand side. The exposed topsoil was gritty. It was foul.

This wasn't some 'organised' pitch as such. It was basically a field possibly registered to Sheffield City Council as a 'sports area' which had rusting, modified heating pipes as goalposts (complete with curved unions at the corners) and one goalpost at one end as I remember was sunk about six inches lower than it's corresponding post. No nets, of course. Sheffield Junior Sunday League. It was blowing a fucking bastard that day as well. Even the Mitre Multiplex we had sailed like a penny floater from Fretwell's van. I think we lost 200-nil or summat. No injuries though.

pommpey

 

[Tunstall Fred]

What were they racing?

Horses,

http://www.villagepublications.co.uk/bradway/win02/localhistory.htm