Harry to Everton

[metalblade]

Will we get a friendly as our sell on reward?

 

[bornablade]

I hope he joins Chelsea and they think it necessary to loan him out to a Championship club where he would feel most at home. (And I don't mean Hull!!)

 

[mancunianblade]

If hull don't go down why would they need £10-15m?

Surely they'd hold out for more

I don't recall him signing a new contract at any point so he must only have a year left at best

 

[Revolution]

I don't recall him signing a new contract at any point so he must only have a year left at best

I vaguely recall that his contract contained a 1 year extension that Hull had the option to activate, and they did so in January.

 

[NZ Blade in Nelson]

I think Harry is a great defender and good on the ball. I don't recall Terry having blistering pace at any stage of his career and he didn't do too bad. Gotta be a min of 20mil in this crazy age.

 

[grafikhaus]

Even when Dawson came on, he was head and shoulders.


He has come on leaps and bounds since we had him, and I agree he's a far more accomplished player than Stones.

Says it all for me. Better than Dawson? Better than Stones? My grannie is better than those two. And that's the rub. All you need in that position is physique - that's why Harry stood out in the Youth Cup Final 6 years ago. Jokers like Terry have made a very good living by simply being physically imposing (and, in Terry's case, defending like a starfish and the ref. indulging him). So kids, eat your Weetabix, grow up big and strong and you may one day become a 'stopper'. Now if you're English...

The minute he leaves Hull, he becomes and England international. Nailed on.

...you'll have a good chance of getting called up for international duty because of the dearth of English 'talent'.... The minute he leaves Hull for a fashionable club he'll become an England international.

If we have a sell-on clause, we'll never get to hear about it. Just accept that, at time, we got a decent fee for Harry and he only looks to have improved because he's surrounded by better players. Same with Adams. Same with D C-L. The only truly brilliant player we've sold in the last few years is Kyle Walker. Now a sell-on clause for him would be very nice!

 

[snootyfenooty]

only looks to have improved because he's surrounded by better players. Same with Adams.

You've got to be kidding me. If we swap places with Brum that'll put that argument to rest.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

And the ludicrously overrated player of the year award goes to....the lad over there with the sunburn.

I think that's a bit harsh, but I do think that he's over-hyped (as are many young English players).

I see someone reckons he's worth £30m, which to me is ludicrous - £12-15m max, but that will represent an excellent investment/risk for a Premier League team.

 

[snootyfenooty]

What I've never quite understood is how players get their "valuation". For example, some on here are saying H is worth £30m but others are saying nay, only £10m. The latter is probably 10% of, say, Hazard's valuation so are we saying H is only a tenth of the player Hazard is? I don't think so. I suppose the valuation can only be determined by whatever sum someone is daft enough to pay, but this still leaves to whole thing subjective.

I would say that a good centre half is worth £50m to Chelsea as they are going to be up shit street soon without one, whereas Spurs have a fantastic back three and would probably only reckon on spending £10m to reinforce their defence. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out but obviously our interest is in one of the monied clubs chucking a daft wedge at it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I think John Stones is hardly better than him. Hopefully Maguire moves for at least £30 million (which is what he's worth in today's market IMO) giving us a tidy sum to reinvest sensibly. Everton will probably sell Lukaku so should have plenty, though personally can see him going to Chelsea to replace John Terry

My two penneth for what it's worth.

John Stones is seen as the ultimate modern day centre half for some reason, a ball player and comfortable on the ball.

For me Harry is far better on the ball than Stones and more importantly a far better defender. If Stones is worth 50m, Harry is worth 30m at the least.

For the guy saying Levy doesn't spend money - how much was it they paid for sissoko when they gazumped Everton - 35m?!

Blades bias aside, do you guys really believe that Harry is a superior player to Stones?
I know we like to laud our own but come on, Stones has had his issues with decision making, which needs work, but he certainly looks every inch like becoming an elite level centre half.
Harry was a decent centre half in the rough when he left us and has improved considerably since, this season in particular. His distribution looks more assured and he's benefited from someone showing confidence in him, plus the fact he's getting games, but it isn't on a level to which Stones was at Everton.
Everton would be a huge step up for Harry, and a great move for him looking at what they're building but Stones is a couple of levels above while being a couple of years younger.
If Harry is to make it at even Everton level (or just under Champions league kind of level), he will need to improve further in his reading of the game due to the already mentioned pace issues, which again Stone doesn't have.
£10-15 Million I'd suggest will see him leave Hull and I'd think there would be a few teams willing to take the risk at that after his good season, but lets not get carried away. He was really struggling at Hull up until this season, and he's had a decent season but I think he need to keep a balanced view and not over rate a player just because he used to play for us.

 

[JohnDenver]

What I've never quite understood is how players get their "valuation". For example, some on here are saying H is worth £30m but others are saying nay, only £10m. The latter is probably 10% of, say, Hazard's valuation so are we saying H is only a tenth of the player Hazard is? I don't think so. I suppose the valuation can only be determined by whatever sum someone is daft enough to pay, but this still leaves to whole thing subjective.

The price doesn't rise proportionally with a player's quality. It seems to be tiered so if a player is deemed Champions League standard, the market for him is suddenly occupied by the super-rich and the price leaps.

This what Spurs do well - buy from the bracket below then sell in the one above.

 

[Revolution]

The price doesn't rise proportionally with a player's quality. It seems to be tiered so if a player is deemed Champions League standard, the market for him is suddenly occupied by the super-rich and the price leaps.

This what Spurs do well - buy from the bracket below then sell in the one above.

Whereas our selling price falls if the player in question hires an agent. Especially a pesky agent.

 

[I should coco]

John Stones is seen as the ultimate modern day centre half for some reason, a ball player and comfortable on the ball.

He sums up everything that is wrong with the modern game.

I agree 100% with your comment, but he is a poor tackler, mediocre in the air and has the commitment of a jellyfish.

Teams need a Morgan / John Terry who will die for the cause. Stones never even come near this, but Harry can do on his day.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Blades bias aside, do you guys really believe that Harry is a superior player to Stones?
I know we like to laud our own but come on, Stones has had his issues with decision making, which needs work, but he certainly looks every inch like becoming an elite level centre half.
Harry was a decent centre half in the rough when he left us and has improved considerably since, this season in particular. His distribution looks more assured and he's benefited from someone showing confidence in him, plus the fact he's getting games, but it isn't on a level to which Stones was at Everton.
Everton would be a huge step up for Harry, and a great move for him looking at what they're building but Stones is a couple of levels above while being a couple of years younger.
If Harry is to make it at even Everton level (or just under Champions league kind of level), he will need to improve further in his reading of the game due to the already mentioned pace issues, which again Stone doesn't have.
£10-15 Million I'd suggest will see him leave Hull and I'd think there would be a few teams willing to take the risk at that after his good season, but lets not get carried away. He was really struggling at Hull up until this season, and he's had a decent season but I think he need to keep a balanced view and not over rate a player just because he used to play for us.

Putting my Bladey Bladeness aside do I really think Harry is better than Stones.

Too right I do, mainly because I think Stones is totally garbage as a defender (the primary objective of which is to defend). If he's so great on the ball, why does he keep giving soft goals away? This season has highlighted him (and Guardiola) as a fraud.

50m for him, Everton and Barnsley must've been pissing themselves when Man C came along.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

He sums up everything that is wrong with the modern game.

I agree 100% with your comment, but he is a poor tackler, mediocre in the air and has the commitment of a jellyfish.

Teams need a Morgan / John Terry who will die for the cause. Stones never even come near this, but Harry can do on his day.

You missed the sarcasm - he's garbage, he isn't even comfortable on the ball. I have no idea where this assessment came from. Probably his rich agent.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

His reading of the game Makes up for lack of pace and he always seemed to be in the right place at the right time, but it's his use of the ball that has seen him stand out. Rarely gives it away and carries it so well.

McGrath when he was here.
Not a comparison with Maguire & McGrath at the same age/stage of their careers.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Stones, playing with an aged defence and a goalkeeper who doesn't instill confidence (Bravo) ...

think we'll see City spend more than any PL club in the close season.

 

[mancunianblade]

I vaguely recall that his contract contained a 1 year extension that Hull had the option to activate, and they did so in January.

It was 3 years ago he signed and if hey triggered the extension in Jan then I imagine it expires next summer.

 

[Jesus_was_a_Blade]

Blades bias aside, do you guys really believe that Harry is a superior player to Stones?
I know we like to laud our own but come on, Stones has had his issues with decision making, which needs work, but he certainly looks every inch like becoming an elite level centre half.
Harry was a decent centre half in the rough when he left us and has improved considerably since, this season in particular. His distribution looks more assured and he's benefited from someone showing confidence in him, plus the fact he's getting games, but it isn't on a level to which Stones was at Everton.
Everton would be a huge step up for Harry, and a great move for him looking at what they're building but Stones is a couple of levels above while being a couple of years younger.
If Harry is to make it at even Everton level (or just under Champions league kind of level), he will need to improve further in his reading of the game due to the already mentioned pace issues, which again Stone doesn't have.
£10-15 Million I'd suggest will see him leave Hull and I'd think there would be a few teams willing to take the risk at that after his good season, but lets not get carried away. He was really struggling at Hull up until this season, and he's had a decent season but I think he need to keep a balanced view and not over rate a player just because he used to play for us.

Loyalties aside I agree with Scooter_mcgavin

This season for me Harry has been better than Stones. While I've not watched every minute of every game the both have them have played, you're still able to get a pretty good feel of things from MOTD. This season every other game for City seemed like Stones was making some sort of error that led to a goal, admittedly he's been asked to "play" the ball a lot more than Harry would have been, but even defensively he's been far from perfect.

One the other hand I remember Danny Murphy & Martin Keown (think it was these 2) waxing lyrical over his performance against Chelsea. As others have said, Hull aren't a particularly fashionable club in terms of national recognition, and maybe a move away would put him more into the spotlight.

 

[Booker4]

One Sheffield United academy product replacing another. Hopefully we can step up again and start to actually keep hold of these great players we produce

In some ways although its always important to produce as many top players as possible, they'll always leave and knowing United not for anywhere their true value. Whereas the next band down such as the Ward's, Whitehouse, Monty and Tonge's who won't play for England but are still Premier League standard (or were in their day) will stay with us for years and be the main stay of the team. In this bracket you may well have David Brookes who is probably the next one to come through.

 

[The Crab]

which one?

I'm guessing Pavorotti will be a bit thinner now than he was in that picture.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Says it all for me. Better than Dawson? Better than Stones? My grannie is better than those two. And that's the rub. All you need in that position is physique - that's why Harry stood out in the Youth Cup Final 6 years ago. Jokers like Terry have made a very good living by simply being physically imposing (and, in Terry's case, defending like a starfish and the ref. indulging him). So kids, eat your Weetabix, grow up big and strong and you may one day become a 'stopper'. Now if you're English...



...you'll have a good chance of getting called up for international duty because of the dearth of English 'talent'.... The minute he leaves Hull for a fashionable club he'll become an England international.

If we have a sell-on clause, we'll never get to hear about it. Just accept that, at time, we got a decent fee for Harry and he only looks to have improved because he's surrounded by better players. Same with Adams. Same with D C-L. The only truly brilliant player we've sold in the last few years is Kyle Walker. Now a sell-on clause for him would be very nice!

I disagree that we got a decent fee for Harry. We lost a very good and integral player for around £2million because he didn’t have long on his contract and wanted to go. Similar to when we sold Killa to Sunderland. Both were worth much more and were enforced sales meaning we couldn’t recoup their true value.


I agree re Adams and DCL though.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

What I've never quite understood is how players get their "valuation". For example, some on here are saying H is worth £30m but others are saying nay, only £10m. The latter is probably 10% of, say, Hazard's valuation so are we saying H is only a tenth of the player Hazard is? I don't think so. I suppose the valuation can only be determined by whatever sum someone is daft enough to pay, but this still leaves to whole thing subjective.

I would say that a good centre half is worth £50m to Chelsea as they are going to be up shit street soon without one, whereas Spurs have a fantastic back three and would probably only reckon on spending £10m to reinforce their defence. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out but obviously our interest is in one of the monied clubs chucking a daft wedge at it.

I think Arsenal and Liverpool could also do a lot worse than having a look at Harry. Both good footballing sides who have been a bit soft at the back for a while now. Harry could bring that size and strength whilst still having the ball playing ability to compliment their style.


Chelsea can probably attract a more proven, more highly rated centre half than those two as well being champions and throwing silly money at it.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Blades bias aside, do you guys really believe that Harry is a superior player to Stones?
I know we like to laud our own but come on, Stones has had his issues with decision making, which needs work, but he certainly looks every inch like becoming an elite level centre half.
Harry was a decent centre half in the rough when he left us and has improved considerably since, this season in particular. His distribution looks more assured and he's benefited from someone showing confidence in him, plus the fact he's getting games, but it isn't on a level to which Stones was at Everton.
Everton would be a huge step up for Harry, and a great move for him looking at what they're building but Stones is a couple of levels above while being a couple of years younger.
If Harry is to make it at even Everton level (or just under Champions league kind of level), he will need to improve further in his reading of the game due to the already mentioned pace issues, which again Stone doesn't have.
£10-15 Million I'd suggest will see him leave Hull and I'd think there would be a few teams willing to take the risk at that after his good season, but lets not get carried away. He was really struggling at Hull up until this season, and he's had a decent season but I think he need to keep a balanced view and not over rate a player just because he used to play for us.

I think a lot of people forget just how good Harry became in his last season with us. 7 goals from centre half. Kept the likes of Benteke in his pocket comfortably. Was one of our biggest attacking threats with his driving runs out from the back. He looked way above league 1 level when he left.


The only reason it’s taken him so long to make his mark at Hull is because some broken faced twat insisted on playing daddy’s little slugger (who was a massively inferior centre half). Since Daddy Bruce left, Harry has gone from strength to strength. He might not be quite at the level to be first choice for Chelsea or Spurs but I think he’d be a good signing for a lot of those chasing clubs (Everton, Liverpool, Arsenal etc.). Hard to say how much he’ll go for but wouldn’t surprise me if it was £15-20 million. For me, he should have already been called up for England ahead of the likes of Gibson and Keane but one is the nephew of Southgate’s old gaffer and the other carries the Manchester United pedigree label.


As for Stones, I don’t see Maguire commanding a similar fee because Stones has more pace, agility and acceleration and they always add a chunk to a player’s value even if he is always capable of a rick and not as good as Harry in the air. Long term, I could see them as a partnership for England.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Stones, playing with an aged defence and a goalkeeper who doesn't instill confidence (Bravo) ...

think we'll see City spend more than any PL club in the close season.

Agreed, if Stones had been playing next to a fully fit Kompany all season he would look like 10 times the player. Just like Harry did when Collins started performing at a higher level.
Man City will shit a fortune and a dominant centre half would be on the list you would think, but I don't think it will be to replace Stones. Man Utd won't be far behind them in the spending stakes either.

 

[BushBlade]

I disagree that we got a decent fee for Harry. We lost a very good and integral player for around £2million because he didn’t have long on his contract and wanted to go. Similar to when we sold Killa to Sunderland. Both were worth much more and were enforced sales meaning we couldn’t recoup their true value.


I agree re Adams and DCL though.

At the time we sold H, how many L1 centre halves had been sold for more than £2m?

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

I heard Real Madrid were looking at Walker. Let's hope there was a sell on clause there too...

 

[1danewhitehouse]

At the time we sold H, how many L1 centre halves had been sold for more than £2m?

I have no idea. But it was so obvious that he could play at a higher level. He had become a fantastic all round centre half by that time. It wasn't like Adams or DCL where the buying club were buying raw potential. He was already an upper championship standard CB who was very young and likely to go on to better things.

 

[The Crab]

Stones, playing with an aged defence and a goalkeeper who doesn't instill confidence (Bravo) ...

think we'll see City spend more than any PL club in the close season.

Joe Hart must wonder what he's done wrong to get replaced by Bravo, he's shocking.

 

[BushBlade]

I have no idea. But it was so obvious that he could play at a higher level. He had become a fantastic all round centre half by that time. It wasn't like Adams or DCL where the buying club were buying raw potential. He was already an upper championship standard CB who was very young and likely to go on to better things.

I know he was good, that's not the point, if he hadn't been good he wouldn't have been bought by Hull. My point is that what we got for him was good money for a L1 centre half, at that time. He'd played one game in the championship, he wasn't proven. His potential wasn't as raw as DCL's but we still got more for him than we got for Adams, who'd played quite a lot of games for us and scored a few goals. In an era when transfer fees rise yearly.

Player valuation is highly subjective and it annoys me when people claim we sell our players on the cheap because generally we don't. If there's one thing KM does know about, it's money.