The Value of Done - Mark II


Tyler Durden said:
Why?

So you can sneer at their arguments in a knobhead-esque manner?
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No. So that some folk might possibly understand that running around in circles like a frenzied mongrel doesn't make a good player.

Some of us have seen good players, very good players, representing United over the years. And getting excited about players like Done, and crediting him with the team doing well when the stats don't support that, is an insult to the good players in the current squad and those who went before.

That's all!

Is that OK?
 
I agree this is a nothing thread in relation to Matty Done but on a more general point as the team has got better and if next season we are in the Championship some players have or will get "left behind". Matt Done is one of those but as others have said he is part of the squad that has got us to where we are. He will not be the only casualty if we get promotion and a number of the present team/squad will be moved on as they are not good enough for the present team nor for the Championship. Sad but it's a fact of football life. In the mean time my thanks go to Matty who has always given his all for the club and the team and will continue to do so for the rest of this season. UTB
 
Cerberus Blade said:
You may be right - but do you understand statistics? For something to have statistical relevance you have to prove that in 95 times out of a 100 the result would be the same. This is usually expressed as a "p value" of >0.05. Take the number 100. Then take away 0.05 and you have 0.95 remaining. Or if that's difficult, add 0.05 to 0.95 and you should get 100.

I'm sorry to tell you, but you are talking rubbish when you suggest that the games that Done started ended up in better results for the team. They didn't. Not statistically valid at all. You might as well consider what colour socks you wore for those matches.

I know folks don't like admitting they are wrong. It's not nice. But the facts are that all those who supported this guy's inclusion in the team are totally wrong. And when he's gone into oblivion this summer it will be perfectly obvious, although still deniable to most.
Click to expand...
Sounds a good research project for you. Count the different coloured socks fans wear for the rest of the season, and report back the statistical significance in May.;)
 
Cerberus Blade said:
No. The knobhead threads were started by those who wanted to keep Done in the team when it was blatantly obvious that he had nothing to offer and didn't deserve a shirt. That's why I'm inviting them to come back on here now and defend their position.
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Let's get things right. People were saying that Done was contributing to a winning team (15 unbeaten?) that was scoring plenty of goals and that at the time was the best option we had to play alongside Billy. Nobody said he was a world beater and everyone acknowledged he didn't score enough but plenty defended him when the blind on here were saying he contributed nothing. All this was pre transfer window when Lavery was still finding his feet, Clarke just wasn't fitting in, McNulty was at Bradford and Scougall was the stand in. We have made additions and he has slipped down the pecking order as most expected including those who defended him. So yes let's defend what was said. At the time he did contribute and was the best option. So while we are on a roll and 7 points clear at the top let's leave the jibes to the likes of narky Parky and his bitter chairman eh?
 
Cerberus Blade said:
No. So that some folk might possibly understand that running around in circles like a frenzied mongrel doesn't make a good player.

Some of us have seen good players, very good players, representing United over the years. And getting excited about players like Done, and crediting him with the team doing well when the stats don't support that, is an insult to the good players in the current squad and those who went before.

That's all!

Is that OK?
Click to expand...

Not really. I don't think anyone said that we couldn't do better, I don't think anyone argued against him getting dropped at the time he did, and I don't think anyone has been calling for his return, so this thread feels a bit like we're in "Od man yells at cloud" territory.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
No. So that some folk might possibly understand that running around in circles like a frenzied mongrel doesn't make a good player.

Some of us have seen good players, very good players, representing United over the years. And getting excited about players like Done, and crediting him with the team doing well when the stats don't support that, is an insult to the good players in the current squad and those who went before.

That's all!

Is that OK?
Click to expand...

'OK' would be an ambitious score to hope for if this thread was being ranked to be honest. You're having a shocker in fact.

The only two possible motivations for such a thread are to attack Done for some bizarre reason given the lack of context (which you've denied). Or to just shit-stir and divide people for no reason.

So, what'll it be?
 
sitwell said:
Some celebrate the fact that this team are top of the league ,some decide to attract attention by picking it apart.
Click to expand...

I am delighted with United this season. I've been watching since the 1970's and I honestly think this is the best football I've ever seen us play. I have posted on here before now that we will definitely get automatic promotion and I don't see anything preventing us being Champions.

I am not picking the team apart. I think what Wilder is done is fantastic. He's the best manager we've had for many a long year and the squad we have is excellent - too good for this division.

But I have a gripe against those idiots (imo) who have continually defended Done. I have said from the start of the season that he cannot be relied upon to score the goals that will fire us to promotion. His track record is evidence of that. These same fans have come on here and made all kinds of excuses for him, saying that we win more games when he plays - which is bollocks - and saying that he makes chances for Billy Sharp which doesn't happen when he isn't playing. Which is also bollocks.

The facts are that Done isn't good enough. Never was. And some folks don't like to admit it. That's ok. But it's obvious to most of us I think.
 
Nothing against the lad,great work rate and attitude,but not quite good enough for me,and can't see him ever regaining a regular starting place...Didn't know whether to feel a bit sorry for him on Saturday or just laugh when watching him doing shooting practice at Long in the warm up with a few others,and he still couldn't score.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
You may be right - but do you understand statistics? For something to have statistical relevance you have to prove that in 95 times out of a 100 the result would be the same. This is usually expressed as a "p value" of >0.05. Take the number 100. Then take away 0.05 and you have 0.95 remaining. Or if that's difficult, add 0.05 to 0.95 and you should get 100.

I'm sorry to tell you, but you are talking rubbish when you suggest that the games that Done started ended up in better results for the team. They didn't. Not statistically valid at all. You might as well consider what colour socks you wore for those matches.

I know folks don't like admitting they are wrong. It's not nice. But the facts are that all those who supported this guy's inclusion in the team are totally wrong. And when he's gone into oblivion this summer it will be perfectly obvious, although still deniable to most.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the p value refresher, my first year lecturer could do with that brief if you'd like to email it to them.

Secondly, don't be so upset. I have not even bothered to read the remaining paragraphs you furiously typed up beyond the first one, save yourself the hassle. :D
 
SunderlandBlade said:
Thanks for the p value refresher, my first year lecturer could do with that brief if you'd like to email it to them.

Secondly, don't be so upset. I have not even bothered to read the remaining paragraphs you furiously typed up beyond the first one, save yourself the hassle. :D
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I'm neither surprised nor disappointed.
 
At the time the debate was Done vs Clarke. Clarke hadn't started in a winning team at that point (I think his tally may be one now), and Done had featured regularly in our unbeaten run. Wilder restored Clarke to the starting XI and we stopped winning, while Done was still the best alternative. That is all.

I'm pleased at the signing of Hanson, who looks a better footballer than I gave him credit for at Bradford, and I've been impressed with Lavery's contribution, particularly his direct running and ability to get the ball in dangerous areas and make goals. I'm happy that these two are ahead of Done in the pecking order. And I still believe Done is, and has always been, a better option than Clarke.

I'm also happy if a player who was once a first choice has been overtaken by better players. It means we're heading in the right direction. When those players move on we can thank them for their contribution rather than slag them off for not having the ability to keep up with our progress and ambition.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
But I have a gripe against those idiots (imo) who have continually defended Done. I have said from the start of the season that he cannot be relied upon to score the goals that will fire us to promotion.
Click to expand...

I feel comfortable speaking for even the most devout Done fans when I say that nobody kicked off when he was dropped. So your 'argument' is redundant from the get go because to "have a gripe against those idiots" is nonsensical when these people dont exist.

If starting arguments in an empty room is your thing, may I suggest kicking off against all those fans who campaigned for the stadium to be renamed after Nigel Adkins?
 
Tyler Durden said:
'OK' would be an ambitious score to hope for if this thread was being ranked to be honest. You're having a shocker in fact.

The only two possible motivations for such a thread are to attack Done for some bizarre reason given the lack of context (which you've denied). Or to just shit-stir and divide people for no reason.

So, what'll it be?
Click to expand...

To be fair, as most regular folk have simply been able to enjoy another good night for the Blades, all it's resulted in is uniting people in agreeing what a shit thread this is.
 

Cerberus Blade said:
But I have a gripe against those idiots (imo) who have continually defended Done. I have said from the start of the season that he cannot be relied upon to score the goals that will fire us to promotion. His track record is evidence of that. These same fans have come on here and made all kinds of excuses for him, saying that we win more games when he plays - which is bollocks - and saying that he makes chances for Billy Sharp which doesn't happen when he isn't playing. Which is also bollocks.

The facts are that Done isn't good enough. Never was. And some folks don't like to admit it. That's ok. But it's obvious to most of us I think.
Click to expand...

Which idiots? When were they continually defending him? Let's not have rants about what a p value is and then get all abstract on us with the details. Has anyone been talking about dropping Hanson for him, or saying he should be ahead of Lavery, or even Sharp?

Because without that we're now firmly onto
297.png
 
Cerberus Blade said:
I am delighted with United this season. I've been watching since the 1970's and I honestly think this is the best football I've ever seen us play. I have posted on here before now that we will definitely get automatic promotion and I don't see anything preventing us being Champions.

I am not picking the team apart. I think what Wilder is done is fantastic. He's the best manager we've had for many a long year and the squad we have is excellent - too good for this division.

But I have a gripe against those idiots (imo) who have continually defended Done. I have said from the start of the season that he cannot be relied upon to score the goals that will fire us to promotion. His track record is evidence of that. These same fans have come on here and made all kinds of excuses for him, saying that we win more games when he plays - which is bollocks - and saying that he makes chances for Billy Sharp which doesn't happen when he isn't playing. Which is also bollocks.

The facts are that Done isn't good enough. Never was. And some folks don't like to admit it. That's ok. But it's obvious to most of us I think.
Click to expand...
If what Wilder has done is fantastic and he's the best manager we had for many a long year is he an idiot (as you've branded some) too for playing Done for the majority of the first half of the season? Or was he thinking like the rest of us that he was contributing to our success and was our best strike option at the time?
 
Cerberus Blade said:
You may be right - but do you understand statistics? For something to have statistical relevance you have to prove that in 95 times out of a 100 the result would be the same. This is usually expressed as a "p value" of >0.05. Take the number 100. Then take away 0.05 and you have 0.95 remaining. Or if that's difficult, add 0.05 to 0.95 and you should get 100.

I'm sorry to tell you, but you are talking rubbish when you suggest that the games that Done started ended up in better results for the team. They didn't. Not statistically valid at all. You might as well consider what colour socks you wore for those matches.

I know folks don't like admitting they are wrong. It's not nice. But the facts are that all those who supported this guy's inclusion in the team are totally wrong. And when he's gone into oblivion this summer it will be perfectly obvious, although still deniable to most.
Click to expand...

Sorry to to be a Bertie big bollocks but I do. I have a PhD in stats. Why should I mention this?
1. Cos I barely get to mention it.
2. Cos its even less likely to be relevant on a bloody Blades forum.

So what's my take on it, I hear you ask?

Fuck all to do with stats. Done runs through a chuffing brick wall for the shirt. And the club he wears the shirt of are top of the league. I'll take that.

UTB.
 
Punk Blade said:
At the time the debate was Done vs Clarke. Clarke hadn't started in a winning team at that point (I think his tally may be one now), and Done had featured regularly in our unbeaten run. Wilder restored Clarke to the starting XI and we stopped winning, while Done was still the best alternative. That is all.

I'm pleased at the signing of Hanson, who looks a better footballer than I gave him credit for at Bradford, and I've been impressed with Lavery's contribution, particularly his direct running and ability to get the ball in dangerous areas and make goals. I'm happy that these two are ahead of Done in the pecking order. And I still believe Done is, and has always been, a better option than Clarke.

I'm also happy if a player who was once a first choice has been overtaken by better players. It means we're heading in the right direction. When those players move on we can thank them for their contribution rather than slag them off for not having the ability to keep up with our progress and ambition.
Click to expand...

That's a fair comment actually. And I wasn't slagging Done off btw. I was just saying what Iv'e said from before the start of the season - that you cannot build a promotion squad around a player like that who has only briefly flirted with being a striker before now and who's average goal tally per season, except for one season, is just 6 goals.

What I said from the start is common sense. But not everyone has common sense I appreciate that. The thing that gets my goat is these folks who come on here inventing spurious statistics to try and justify their viewpoint that the team is better with Done in it. It isn't. That's a fact. And now it's obvious to all but the thickest of short planks.

That's all! :)
 
I have to concur with you fella, we should get rid of all 3 and buy a new keeper to understudy Moore.
 
Kozzy_is_my_Dad said:
Sorry to to be a Bertie big bollocks but I do. I have a PhD in stats. Why should I mention this?
1. Cos I barely get to mention it.
2. Cos its even less likely to be relevant on a bloody Blades forum.

So what's my take on it, I hear you ask?

Fuck all to do with stats. Done runs through a chuffing brick wall for the shirt. And the club he wears the shirt of are top of the league. I'll take that.

UTB.
Click to expand...

Me too pal. I earn a living from working with stats. And I don't expect everyone to understand them - because that would be totally unrealistic. But football is full of people quoting stupid stats which just don't add up.

I don't give a damn if Done runs through brick walls - more fool him I say. I'd run through a brick wall if I had the chance to play for United, but I'd be shite.

He's nothing to do with us being top of the league btw. If we'd persisted with him we'd be nowhere near. Work that one out!
 
Chris Wilder's opinion is the only one I value CB and if he believes Done should start, come on as a sub or just warm the bench then that's what I believe in. CW is manager and has masterminded this season so I think he knows what he's doing.
 

Deadly_D'Jaffo said:
I feel comfortable speaking for even the most devout Done fans when I say that nobody kicked off when he was dropped. So your 'argument' is redundant from the get go because to "have a gripe against those idiots" is nonsensical when these people dont exist.

If starting arguments in an empty room is your thing, may I suggest kicking off against all those fans who campaigned for the stadium to be renamed after Nigel Adkins?
Click to expand...

Go back a few weeks and you'll find threads, one in particular, entitled, "The Value of Done", which was defending him at a time when he was contributing absolutely nothing to the team apart from running around like a crazed mongrel. That's why I posted this thread. Because I contested his value to the team at the time and I was one of the few to do so. Most on here thought he was just fab because he chases every ball. I argued against that, saying that we couldn't rely on him, especially as one of the two strikers. Then we got all this shite about the team winning more with him in it. It's all been proved to be nonsense. But some folks just can't say, "I got it wrong" can they?

I got it wrong about Clarke for example. I didn't post any thread about "The value of Clarke" but I did think he'd do a lot better for us than he did - but I was way out on that.

For the record I've also said that:

Coutts should be in the team
Long won't make it
Scougall won't make it

in addition to Done not being good enough.

I think I'm possibly doing ok with my assessment of these players and I'm sorry to make some folk feel uncomfortable because they don't have the same insight, but that's how it is! None of us are right all of the time. But some of us don't mind admitting it!
 
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