What do you want us to be?

[Bladey McBladeface]

He seemed totally oblivious to the fact that the Premier League is made up Bournemouth, Palace, West Brom, Burnley, Southampton, Stoke, Leicester, Watford, Swansea, West Ham, Middlesbrough and Hull.
That's more than half of the division taken up by clubs traditionally smaller than United

Then you can add teams to that list that have been regular Premier League members over the last 20 years or so, teams like Wolves, Derby, Forest, Blackburn, Bolton, Leeds, Birmingham, Coventry, Portsmouth, QPR, Fulham and Wigan,

SBT and I made this point to him but he still couldn't see it.
And we call Wendies brainwashed.

At least their brainwashed into positivity

I take your point and there are teams in the Premier League who are overachieving in terms of their history and stature. Can we honestly put the likes of West Ham (as much as I hate them) in that bracket though?

The other thing to add is that there has been a shift in football geography. Where you are located has a big bearing on your success. It's surely no coincidence that there are no teams from Yorkshire in the Premier League. Whereas your Bournemouth's, Southampton's and Brighton's are already there or are knocking on the door. Similarly clubs from London such as Palace and Fulham (are and have) benefit hugely from being in the capital.

Players want to play where they want to live. You will always get exceptions to the rule but it's why Newcastle/Sunderland (despite their support) will struggle to achieve.

 

[Pinchy]

No one has mentioned yet the bleak possibility of us flogging anyone in the JTW.

pommpey

They had every confidence in you....

 

[JJ Sefton]

I want us to crush our enemies, to see them driven before us, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

 

[Esablade]

..first Poland, tomorrow...THE WORLD!!!

 

[larkymasher]

I just want us to be a club who have a chance of reaching the top flight. It's a big uphill battle just to get to that stage. The sort of timescale we could be looking at for that is similar to what it would've been to actually be in the PL had we got out of L1 when we should've done. Instead we've fucked around for 6 years and in that time the Championship has changed completely.

We should be able to emulate the likes of West Brom but with the way football's changed it's a much longer term aspiration than it might have been.

The Championship's a good league to be in anyway. Good standard, open, unpredictable, big crowds, good stadiums, good clubs. You could take 10+ clubs out of that league and swap them for 10+ in the PL and the PL would improve massively. But that also highlights the difficulty in getting to the PL. There are a lot of big clubs in the Championship who'd all naturally compete at a similar level to us - and almost all of them will have more money than us. Then you've got nothing clubs like Bournemouth up in the PL, reaping the financial rewards, establishing themselves and clogging things up so it takes longer to restore the natural order, meaning the bigger clubs stay in the Championship and make it more difficult - not to mention the incentive and belief it gives other smaller clubs.

Could not agree more Ricky.

We would all like to say in the Premier League as a solid club............... i would be very happy in the championship for the next few years enjoying big games, big traveling support home & away, bringing quality players in and everything that goes with that league.

Flirting with promotion would be great ... but just all done at a pace where we don't over extend and end up where we have been for 6 years.

Oh, and an FA and League cup double would be very nice.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I ask this question having just read WBA move up to 9th in the Prem following theit 4-0 victory over Burnley.
WBA are an established Premiership outfit. Unlikely to win it or qualify for any European slots,yet likely to retain Prem status indefinately.
Burnley are probably going to be relegated again this season and will retain huge sums of money to bounce back as they have previously.

Both clubs have fan bases no way better than ours so is it unreasonable to expect us to get to and remain in the premiership?

Personally I think we have as much potential or more than either of the aforementioned along with Sunderland,Swansea,Watford,Palace,Bourenmouth,Hull,Middlebro,Southampton and Leicester.

Think about that. You may not agree with all my names but I'm sure you'll agree with most.

We are on the first stage of a journey Wilder knows as a man with SUFC DNA has to take us back to and keep us in the top flight.

On the flip side, pigs, dirties, Forest, Derby, Newcastle, Norwich, Villa, Brum, Ipswich, Cardiff, Wolves etc. would all say the same. There will always be teams who overachieve prompting us to say “if they can do it, we can” but it will be prompting lots of others to say the same.


I’ll be happy to start with not being massive underachievers as we’ve been for the last 6 years. That begins with getting out of this division and established in the Championship. Then, we join the rat race involving a lot of similar sized clubs trying to scramble their way out to the Premier League. Then, if we get there, it’s all about trying to survive that first season or two to become established.


I’d also love some more good cup runs over the years. They do provide some of the best one off memories.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I want us in the Championship, to start with, equipped with a team which will stay in the championship and push to challenge for promotion.

No one has mentioned yet the bleak possibility of us flogging anyone in the JTW.

Just like we do.

pommpey

Whilst I have no faith in our board to resist meaningful approaches, I’m optimistic on that front because


a) we’ve sold our young, sought after talent in the summer to the tune of around £3million.

b) our current top performers are either getting on (Sharp), are recent recruits (Fleck) or both (Wright, Clarke, Duffy etc.). The only ones who might be sold are Coutts and Freeman as they’ve only 6 months on their deals. I’m more concerned about EEL getting recalled. I don’t think Lafferty or Chapman will be.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

@ Sothall Blade.
The clue is in the thread title mate. It's a question for discussion,not a prediction.

 

[mattbianco1]

rsonally I think we have as much potential or more than either of the aforementioned along with Sunderland,Swansea,Watford,Palace,Bourenmouth,Hull,Middlebro,Southampton and Leicester.

We are certainly big enough and have the fan base to be an established Premier League club, but every club you mention above with the exception of Bournemouth have had more seasons in the top flight during the Premier League era (1992 to date).

Sunderland (16)
Swansea (6)
Watford (4)
Palace (8)
Bournemouth (2)
Hull (5)
Middlesbrough (15)
Southampton (18)
Leicester (11)
WBA (11)
Burnley (3)

During that time, Swansea, Hull, Middlesbrough, Southampton and Leicester have all played in Europe. Middlesbrough have contested in a Europa League Final and Sunderland have WON the Championship 5 times.

The potential for our club is and always was there but over the last 25 years, unfortunately, all of the clubs you've mentioned are more successful than us.

That's without even mentioning clubs in the championship who have had more top flight seasons than us since 1992; Newcastle, Birmingham, Norwich, Leeds, Fulham, Pigs, Derby, QPR, Villa, Ipswich, Forest, Wolves, Blackburn & Wigan

You could argue that the biggest teams that are "due back" are Forest, Pigs and Ipswich who've been outside the top flight since '99, '00 & '02 respectively.

 

[BushBlade]

I take your point and there are teams in the Premier League who are overachieving in terms of their history and stature. Can we honestly put the likes of West Ham (as much as I hate them) in that bracket though?

The other thing to add is that there has been a shift in football geography. Where you are located has a big bearing on your success. It's surely no coincidence that there are no teams from Yorkshire in the Premier League. Whereas your Bournemouth's, Southampton's and Brighton's are already there or are knocking on the door. Similarly clubs from London such as Palace and Fulham (are and have) benefit hugely from being in the capital.

Players want to play where they want to live. You will always get exceptions to the rule but it's why Newcastle/Sunderland (despite their support) will struggle to achieve.

History and stature has no bearing on modern football compared to hard cash and the ability to run a club properly. The game has changed massively over the last few years but I'm not sure everyone has noticed. The PL is almost a closed shop, if we took a minute out from laughing at the pigs and thought about why they failed last season despite their investments we might start to get the picture.
Clubs like us, pigs, scabs, scum are where they are because they blew their chances and, unlike times gone by, further chances will be few and far between.

As for geography, it's not just the players wanting to live down south, it's the growth of population and wealth in these areas that attracts wealthy owners who can see untapped potential. Higher ticket prices, higher corporate box income, better sponsorship deals.

 

[DifferentClass]

Anywhere but this shithole of a division.

 

[Deleted member 875]

Two aspirations.

1. Beat Bury tonight
2. Start next season as a Championship side

Then reappraise the aspirations from there.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Get back above the pigs for starters (and set the world back on its proper axis).

 

[Sothall_Blade]

@ Sothall Blade.
The clue is in the thread title mate. It's a question for discussion,not a prediction.

Well the threads you poured scorn on were also topics for discussion not predictions but that's fine. It's a forum!

First and foremost I want us to win matches, score goals and play attacking, entertaining football.
If we do that, we will also by default gain promotions, reach Cup Finals and maybe even win something one day.
I would like us to earn enough money that the Stadium can be improved, particularly The Kop.
If all that happened, I would be quite happy us with being a yoyo team between The Premiership and The Championship.

I don't think I would want us to be like Coventry.
Mid-table mediocrity nearly every season for 50 years apart from one cup win and two relegations.
Say what you like about United but succeed or fail we rarely have a dull, meaningless season.
Which is why the last couple of years have been so disappointing.

 

[BushBlade]

Well the threads you poured scorn on were also topics for discussion not predictions but that's fine. It's a forum!

First and foremost I want us to win matches, score goals and play attacking, entertaining football.
If we do that, we will also by default gain promotions, reach Cup Finals and maybe even win something one day.
I would like us to earn enough money that the Stadium can be improved, particularly The Kop.
If all that happened, I would be quite happy us with being a yoyo team between The Premiership and The Championship.

I don't think I would want us to be like Coventry.
Mid-table mediocrity nearly every season for 30 years apart from one cup win and two relegations.
Say what you like about United but succeed or fail we rarely have a dull, meaningless season.
Which is why the last couple of years have been so disappointing.

I reckon I've got 30 years left if I'm lucky. I'd be very pleased if we were in the PL for that length of time and won a cup.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Just to mention 4 clubs, just look at Burnley, Swansea, Bournemouth, Hull. They got to the Prem first time round on a fuck-all budget. Why is there a perceived lock-out for anyone else doing the same due to financial constraints? There has and always will be reasons for success other than just chucking money at it.

I'm with the ayes on this one. Anyone who thinks that the Championship is our only realistic target ought to go and take some fucking pills.

 

[pommpey]

Whilst I have no faith in our board to resist meaningful approaches, I’m optimistic on that front because


a) we’ve sold our young, sought after talent in the summer to the tune of around £3million.

b) our current top performers are either getting on (Sharp), are recent recruits (Fleck) or both (Wright, Clarke, Duffy etc.). The only ones who might be sold are Coutts and Freeman as they’ve only 6 months on their deals. I’m more concerned about EEL getting recalled. I don’t think Lafferty or Chapman will be.

And that state of affairs lies between us maintaining the momentum, and suddenly reverting back to playoff-final fodder.

Sharp will always be a performer, given half a yard and a sight of goal. Coutts is finally starting to establish his role in midfield and Freeman has suddenly realised he is a footballer.

I wouldn't not bet of one or two of them being on their way in January.

pommpey

 

[Boxer Blade]

The potential of us (and pigs I'm afraid) is huge, we come from the 4th. biggest city in England, it is without a doubt a footballing city, how somebody hasn't taken either or both clubs to the premier league and stayed there is odd, the main reason I have faith is because of our huge potential something the majority of clubs do not have, the support we are getting is incredible, the only other clubs who could match it are clubs who have had years of success and have collected support along the way, the problem with my argument? I've been saying it for fucking years.

 

[PokerBlade]

Championship or better. I wouldn't mind seeing us in the Prem, but the Championship has plenty of decent teams in it that bring away fans in good numbers and that the home fans can create an atmosphere for, and the standard of football on display is much higher.

League One football is only good to watch when we're smashing teams left, right, and centre...like now.

 

[BushBlade]

Just to mention 4 clubs, just look at Burnley, Swansea, Bournemouth, Hull. They got to the Prem first time round on a fuck-all budget. Why is there a perceived lock-out for anyone else doing the same due to financial constraints? There has and always will be reasons for success other than just chucking money at it.

I'm with the ayes on this one. Anyone who thinks that the Championship is our only realistic target ought to go and take some fucking pills.

Because of the change in parachute payments. The money is a lot more. And lasts for two years, then another two on reduced money.

 

[Bladey McBladeface]

Just to mention 4 clubs, just look at Burnley, Swansea, Bournemouth, Hull. They got to the Prem first time round on a fuck-all budget. Why is there a perceived lock-out for anyone else doing the same due to financial constraints? There has and always will be reasons for success other than just chucking money at it.

I'm with the ayes on this one. Anyone who thinks that the Championship is our only realistic target ought to go and take some fucking pills.

I'm not being deliberately pedantic, but Bournemouth did splash the cash to get to the Premier League. It's a misconception that they are a small club and therefore have no money.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I reckon I've got 30 years left if I'm lucky. I'd be very pleased if we were in the PL for that length of time and won a cup.

Yeah, I guess most people probably would.
I definitely want us to win a cup and to do that you more than likely have to be a Premiership team.
I just wouldn't fancy year after year of losing more than you win, defending with backs to the wall in most matches.
Some people like the roundabout, I like the roller-coaster.

Coventry - 30+ years in the top division:-
1999/2000 1 F.A. Carling Premiership 14th/20 38 12 1 6 38 22 0 7 12 9 32 12 8 18 47 54 44
1998/1999 1 F.A. Carling Premiership 15th/20 38 8 6 5 26 21 3 3 13 13 30 11 9 18 39 51 42
1997/1998 1 F.A. Carling Premiership 11th/20 38 8 9 2 26 17 4 7 8 20 27 12 16 10 46 44 52
1996/1997 1 F.A. Carling Premiership 17th/20 38 4 8 7 19 23 5 6 8 19 31 9 14 15 38 54 41
1995/1996 1 F.A. Carling Premiership 16th/20 38 6 7 6 21 23 2 7 10 21 37 8 14 16 42 60 38
1994/1995 1 F.A. Carling Premiership 16th/22 42 7 7 7 23 25 5 7 9 21 37 12 14 16 44 62 50
1993/1994 1 F.A. Carling Premiership 11th/22 42 9 7 5 23 17 5 7 9 20 28 14 14 14 43 45 56
1992/1993 1 F.A. Carling Premier League 15th/22 42 7 4 10 29 28 6 9 6 23 29 13 13 16 52 57 52
1991/1992 1 Barclays First Division 19th/22 42 6 7 8 18 15 5 4 12 17 29 11 11 20 35 44 44
1990/1991 1 Barclays First Division 16th/20 38 10 6 3 30 16 1 5 13 12 33 11 11 16 42 49 44
1989/1990 1 Barclays First Division 12th/20 38 11 2 6 24 25 3 5 11 15 34 14 7 17 39 59 49
1988/1989 1 Barclays First Division 7th/20 38 9 4 6 28 23 5 9 5 19 19 14 13 11 47 42 55
1987/1988 1 Barclays First Division 10th/21 40 6 8 6 23 25 7 6 7 23 28 13 14 13 46 53 53
1986/1987 1 Today First Division 10th/22 42 14 4 3 35 17 3 8 10 15 28 17 12 13 50 45 63
1985/1986 1 Canon First Division 17th/22 42 6 5 10 31 35 5 5 11 17 36 11 10 21 48 71 43
1984/1985 1 Canon First Division 18th/22 42 11 3 7 29 22 4 2 15 18 42 15 5 22 47 64 50
1983/1984 1 Canon First Division 19th/22 42 8 5 8 33 33 5 6 10 24 44 13 11 18 57 77 50
1982/1983 1 English First Division 19th/22 42 10 5 6 29 17 3 4 14 19 42 13 9 20 48 59 48
1981/1982 1 English First Division 14th/22 42 9 4 8 31 24 4 7 10 25 38 13 11 18 56 62 50
1980/1981 1 English First Division 16th/22 42 9 6 6 31 30 4 4 13 17 38 13 10 19 48 68 36
1979/1980 1 English First Division 15th/22 42 12 2 7 34 24 4 5 12 22 42 16 7 19 56 66 39
1978/1979 1 English First Division 10th/22 42 11 7 3 41 29 3 9 9 17 39 14 16 12 58 68 44
1977/1978 1 English First Division 7th/22 42 13 5 3 48 23 5 7 9 27 39 18 12 12 75 62 48
1976/1977 1 English First Division 19th/22 42 7 9 5 34 26 3 6 12 14 33 10 15 17 48 59 35
1975/1976 1 English First Division 14th/22 42 6 9 6 22 22 7 5 9 25 35 13 14 15 47 57 40
1974/1975 1 English First Division 14th/22 42 8 9 4 31 27 4 6 11 20 35 12 15 15 51 62 39
1973/1974 1 English First Division 16th/22 42 10 5 6 25 18 4 5 12 18 36 14 10 18 43 54 38
1972/1973 1 English First Division 19th/22 42 9 5 7 27 24 4 4 13 13 31 13 9 20 40 55 35
1971/1972 1 English First Division 18th/22 42 7 10 4 27 23 2 5 14 17 44 9 15 18 44 67 33
1970/1971 1 English First Division 10th/22 42 12 4 5 24 12 4 6 11 13 26 16 10 16 37 38 42
1969/1970 1 English First Division 6th/22 42 9 6 6 35 28 10 5 6 23 20 19 11 12 58 48 49
1968/1969 1 English First Division 20th/22 42 8 6 7 32 22 2 5 14 14 42 10 11 21 46 64 31
1967/1968 1 English First Division 20th/22 42 8 5 8 32 32 1 10 10 19 39 9 15 18 51 71 33

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Hopefully the top clubs will have fucked off to form their closed-shop "European Super League" by the time we get back to the top table.

If it weren't for Leicester's heroics last season I'd have totally lost interest in the top flight by now.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Because of the change in parachute payments. The money is a lot more. And lasts for two years, then another two on reduced money.

The parachute payments have always been significant. Just because they are a lot more now doesn't hide the fact that they have been giving a significant advantage for relegated clubs for some time now.

There will always be some special talent out there who knows how to fuck up just as well as we do (Bradford, Barnsley, pigs, Wigan, Coventry, Blackpool, Blackburn etc) and let someone else in.

 

[Boxer Blade]

I'm not being deliberately pedantic, but Bournemouth did splash the cash to get to the Premier League. It's a misconception that they are a small club and therefore have no money.

There's a separate argument there bladey, what actually constitutes being a big club? I have my own feelings but I reckon we are bigger than Bournemouth but I can understand people having a counter argument.

 

[finlaytheblade]

No SBT you are wrong

All of the above clubs have much more potential than us

Sheffield United have been very successful at one thing :
Lowering the expectation of almost everybody that supports them

If you start with no expectations you cannot fail

Being a biggish club that's never going to happen

 

[BushBlade]

The parachute payments have always been significant. Just because they are a lot more now doesn't hide the fact that they have been giving a significant advantage for relegated clubs for some time now.

There will always be some special talent out there who knows how to fuck up just as well as we do (Bradford, Barnsley, pigs, Wigan, Coventry, Blackpool, Blackburn etc) and let someone else in.

Hopefully there will. And they've changed them once again, slightly in our favour:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-much-aston-villa-parachute-11161706

 

[finlaytheblade]

There's a separate argument there bladey, what actually constitutes being a big club? I have my own feelings but I reckon we are bigger than Bournemouth but I can understand people having a counter argument.

Fleetwood are a typical club with a rich owner can name one or two others who are punching above there weight, dreaming of getting the premiership riches.Its all due to sky money.When they start to lower the
rates they are willing to pay, most of these rich owners will dissappear into the mist,of course the ones who really support there clubs will carry on picking up the tab because they love the club.
can't say when the plug will be pulled but it will happen.The naturally big clubs will then resurface.

 

[mattbianco1]

It's unlikely many more clubs that haven't been in the PL in the last couple of years will get promoted from the championship.

If Brighton do it this season they could be one of the last. If we assume Newcastle go up and Villa go up through the playoffs (for argument's sake) then next season Norwich will still be on full parachute payments, as will the three clubs that go down. Chances are, the promoted clubs will be three of the four clubs on full parachute payments. And the same the next year and the next.

Occasionally a club will fall apart, like Blackburn or Wigan so there's still a small chance a non-parachute payment receiving club will go up but it won't be the norm. This situation will eventually lead to the championship clubs agreeing to a PL2 but until then we'll see the same five or six clubs getting relegated from the PL and then getting promoted again.

Stop dreaming
People who say that are blaspheming
They're doing nine to five and moaning
And they don't want you succeeding when they've blown it
And your idols - who are they?
They too dreamt about their day
Positive steps will see your goals.
Whether it's dollars or control, feel the gold.
I ain't helping you climb the ladder
I'm busy climbing mine.
That's how it's been since the dawn of time
If you reach a cul-de-sac
The world turns it's back
This is your zone, it's like blackjack
He might get the ace or the top one
So organise your two's and three's into a run then you'll have fucked him son
And for that you'll be the better one
One last thing before you go though
When you feel better tomorrow you'll be a hero
But never forget today. You could be back here, things can stray

Mike Skinner, 2002

 

[BushBlade]

Stop dreaming
People who say that are blaspheming
They're doing nine to five and moaning
And they don't want you succeeding when they've blown it
And your idols - who are they?
They too dreamt about their day
Positive steps will see your goals.
Whether it's dollars or control, feel the gold.
I ain't helping you climb the ladder
I'm busy climbing mine.
That's how it's been since the dawn of time
If you reach a cul-de-sac
The world turns it's back
This is your zone, it's like blackjack
He might get the ace or the top one
So organise your two's and three's into a run then you'll have fucked him son
And for that you'll be the better one
One last thing before you go though
When you feel better tomorrow you'll be a hero
But never forget today. You could be back here, things can stray

Mike Skinner, 2002

???

Original bad boy material. Lock down your aerial.

Dreams are great but my dreams are about things I can influence. That way, when others fail to deliver things that are unlikely to happen I don't throw my toys out of the pram.
Set the bar too high for yourself and you keep pushing, set it too high for others and you'll spend most of the time being disappointed in them.