United u23s v Hull u23s report....

[Deadbat]

Plenty of time for Cummings he's one of if not the youngest in that side,like I said DB I'll agree to differ I thought scougall produced more towards the team but as someone I once sat with said it's all abart opinions

I agree he could definitely be a player longer term. I would say he has more of a chance than Semple as is an athlete and fairly quick. Semple reminds me of the lad we used to have a whiile ago, Craig McAughtrie in the late 90's (another Mumble Man villain).

He was a big lad who stood out at younger levels but as quicker and more athletic players faced him he struggled. Hope I am wrong but you cannot teach pace/athleticism.

 

[Treeton Blade]

Last time I saw him walking in Pond Street bus station (he was muttering to himself) some months ago. Has less hair and the ginger in his hair is not as bright as it was

His name is Terry, I have spoken to him at many reserve/youth games down the years.

Usually gets the Star out when we go one nil down, and isn`t slow to voice his displeasure inches from whoever is manager at the time in the directors box.

He also had a spell selling the Star outside the old market, I used to chew the fat on a Friday with him, previewing the next days game.

Think he has had a bit of bad health, and dosen`t go as regularly as he used to do to youth games.

Nice fellow, one of the eccentric Blades,hope he is well.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Louis Reed just turned 19 three months ago. 58 first team appearances. Represented England at U-18, U-19 and recently U-20.

Good touch, plays with his head up, can retain possession and in open play can play a forward ball into the stride of team mates.

Plenty to build on believe me.

 

[DifferentClass]

I think Jake Wright junior was injured. He was certainly enjoying his foot long subway pre match in the garage.

He's shagging EEL?

 

[Pinchy]

Louis Reed just turned 19 three months ago. 58 first team appearances. Represented England at U-18, U-19 and recently U-20.

Good touch, plays with his head up, can retain possession and in open play can play a forward ball into the stride of team mates.

Plenty to build on believe me.

Sorry, I don't. I've seen him play...

 

[Woodwardfan]

Sorry, I don't. I've seen him play...

Pinchy, there's Bladey and anti-Bladey for the sake of it. Neither is worthwhile.

 

[Pinchy]

Pinchy, there's Bladey and anti-Bladey for the sake of it. Neither is worthwhile.

That doesn't come into it mate. The lad will be in League two before long, then the National League beckons. Like your other lost cause, Calamity George, he lacks so many of the basic requirements of professional football [not his fault, but sadly true]. Our club has to be in the business of winning football matches right now. The school sports day will have to wait until Summer, then we'll givemallarun.

You keep wishing on that star, though.

 

[Silent Blade]

Pinchy, there's Bladey and anti-Bladey for the sake of it. Neither is worthwhile.

Wilder has seen him more times this season than you have

 

[Woodwardfan]

That doesn't come into it mate. The lad will be in League two before long, then the National League beckons. Like your other lost cause, Calamity George, he lacks so many of the basic requirements of professional football [not his fault, but sadly true]. Our club has to be in the business of winning football matches right now. The school sports day will have to wait until Summer, then we'll givemallarun.

You keep wishing on that star, though.

We'll see. I hope you are disappointed.

 

[Deadbat]

Louis Reed just turned 19 three months ago. 58 first team appearances. Represented England at U-18, U-19 and recently U-20.

Good touch, plays with his head up, can retain possession and in open play can play a forward ball into the stride of team mates.

Plenty to build on believe me.

I used to think the same but seen little of the above qualities in recent times after being impressed when he came through that he always found a yard and would try a forward pass. He seems to have lost all confidence and if it was not for the promise he showed a few years ago (that got him a longer contract) he would have been moved on sadly. We cannot laud a player based on 3 or 4 games in 3 season (that is about all I have seen of him sadly - Southampton, QPR away in the Cup and maybe PReston in the cup and Swindon away - but nothing for over a year of note). That is not good enough. 19 or 29. If he cannot stand out or even make the bench at League One level then not sure he ever will.

I have watched him in a lot of first team (ones he has played) and reserve games in last 18 months or so. I used to think he had a good touch and was a good passer of the ball. I have seen little evidence of that in that period other than the odd game. His touch also has not been great in games I have seen.Many games have just passed him by. Last night was a casing point. He barely touched the ball and when he did it came off him or he got crowded out. He tried 3 balls over the top but overhit every one. This has been similiar in other games. I recall the Leicester game this year and the Huddersfield game in final of u23 things when he was awful in both games.

I thought we had a really good player on our hands when he broke through with just his slght build a concern but now his passing and other bits have not pushed on, he looks a long way from ever making it. Shame

 

[Woodwardfan]

Wilder has seen him more times this season than you have

Nothing to do with it if you think about it.

Reed is 19 years 3 months old. Wilder will decide the best way to further his career, that is true.

Wilder is assessing numerous players right now, even those he has signed. Some are disappointing him but he will give them every chance to prove themselves, for obvious reasons, one being he has spent the club's money on them.

Reed, Whiteman, Brooks etc have time on their side and will understand they will have to bide their time. These new signings like Wilson and Hussey will hope to prove themselves otherwise they could be going out on loan Brown has a few months to show his worth. Obviously Reed and Whiteman's situation can be held in abeyance.

Personally I think at least two of the lads should be gaining experience on the bench on match days, on the other hand I understand the fact we've signed so many new players and any of those would be distraught not to be there on match days.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Transition. Woodward fans go to staple.
In this instance transition is very apt.
Reed has made one. From promising young player to just another that won`t make it.
He`s transitioned.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I used to think the same but seen little of the above qualities in recent times after being impressed when he came through that he always found a yard and would try a forward pass. He seems to have lost all confidence and if it was not for the promise he showed a few years ago (that got him a longer contract) he would have been moved on sadly. We cannot laud a player based on 3 or 4 games in 3 season (that is about all I have seen of him sadly - Southampton, QPR away in the Cup and maybe PReston in the cup and Swindon away - but nothing for over a year of note). That is not good enough. 19 or 29. If he cannot stand out or even make the bench at League One level then not sure he ever will.

I have watched him in a lot of first team (ones he has played) and reserve games in last 18 months or so. I used to think he had a good touch and was a good passer of the ball. I have seen little evidence of that in that period other than the odd game. His touch also has not been great in games I have seen.Many games have just passed him by. Last night was a casing point. He barely touched the ball and when he did it came off him or he got crowded out. He tried 3 balls over the top but overhit every one. This has been similiar in other games. I recall the Leicester game this year and the Huddersfield game in final of u23 things when he was awful in both games.

I thought we had a really good player on our hands when he broke through with just his slght build a concern but now his passing and other bits have not pushed on, he looks a long way from ever making it. Shame

Adkins damaged the morale of many individuals including me. I sincerely hope Reed does not go to Burton (excuse the half pun) because Clough knows what he can get out of the player.

To play for England at least one year under age for the various teams over the years is no mean feat. The lad can play and will make a footballer. Having sat on Row 10 next to the pitch at Bradford I entirely understand that Reed should not be in the heat of that battle and have every respect for the best players last Saturday. However he should be there on the bench and in the dressing room and yes he is good enough to play in those games before long. A poster on here quoted his mate who said Reed was "outstanding" playing for England.

Deadbat, you know I respect your opinion 95% of the time. I know what you are saying but we cannot afford to discard our better players just because managers change. If Clough had stayed Reed would have 100 games under his belt by now. Remember Jags was pretty average for his first 50/60 games, it takes time. Reed is small and he is very young but I suspect his personal development is not a club priority right now and when we are allowed 7 subs it should be. Jags turned out to be an exceptional footballer in the Premier League yet he was ordinary for so long.

Out of all the lads only Whiteman has played 7 minutes first team league football as yet. Of course I understand why but Wilder and McCabe and Binnion all told us youth development is one of the keys. It's early days and yes I do have confidence in Wilder and I hope youth development can be achieved in tandem with club success, not just out on loan but contributing to first team success. This is League 1 after all and it's not beyond these lads. Not every player out of the 18 needs to win games for us.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Transition. Woodward fans go to staple.
In this instance transition is very apt.
Reed has made one. From promising young player to just another that won`t make it.
He`s transitioned.

Sean, why not join in the sensible debate on this thread?

 

[8lade]

Do United have a psychologist on the books? It sounds like they need to look into the minds of one or two players. I can't comment on Reed specifically although it sounds like he's got something he needs to resolve but when Tonge broke through he went from match winner to pass it sideways squad player pretty quickly.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Sean, why not join in the sensible debate on this thread?

Hate to be the one to break this to you WWF,but in case you haven`t noticed,pretty much every poster on this thread thinks your talking bobbar and the rest think you're a bellend or a flouncer or both. My contribution,genuine and based on having seen said player on numerous occaisions is as good as it gets.
You were laughed off Bladesmad and from what I've read on S2 it's not much different.
For the avoidance of doubt I think Reed is lightweight,weak,slow,average passer,lousy finisher. Non league beckons.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Hate to be the one to break this to you WWF,but in case you haven`t noticed,pretty much every poster on this thread thinks your talking bobbar and the rest think you're a bellend or a flouncer or both. My contribution,genuine and based on having seen said player on numerous occaisions is as good as it gets.
You were laughed off Bladesmad and from what I've read on S2 it's not much different.
For the avoidance of doubt I think Reed is lightweight,weak,slow,average passer,lousy finisher. Non league beckons.

Is that the "sensible debate" Sean? "Bobbar, bellend, flouncer" in a serious debate.

Just for the record in a serious debate Sean, has Reed any good attributes, just for the record like balance?

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I think Reed has the ability to know what a player in his position needs to do to be successful to some degree. He lacks every motor action to translate that into end product and shows less and less sign of ever being able to so do.
He`s another Di Geralomo but without the flounce.

 

[Pinchy]

It's early days and yes I do have confidence in Wilder and I hope youth development can be achieved in tandem with club success, not just out on loan but contributing to first team success. This is League 1 after all and it's not beyond these lads. Not every player out of the 18 needs to win games for us.

I dont want to misrepresent you, mate, but that could easily be translated as:
Givemarun. Givemallarun.

Every player needs to contribute to winning games. Otherwise they do not justify their professional existence. I'm beginning to think you dont 'get' a fundamental series of propositions.

1. The fundamental objective of SUFC [any professional club] is to win football matches. [I leave aside style of play and entertainment for these purposes; that's a different debate]
2. Youth development is of consequence only insofar as it assists in achieving the fundamental objective.
3. There is no independent obligation to develop youth. We are a professional football club, not a creche; not a youth club; not a facilitator of the Duke of Edinburgh Award; not the X-Factor.
4. The interests and welfare of Louis Reed [insert other name] are entirely subservient to those of the club. Where they do not coincide, proposition 1 prevails.

I would not sacrifice a single point, goal or even corner kick, to 'develop youth' for its own sake. That's a job for the Academy in front of the proverbial three men and a dog, not the heat of battle in League One. Thats not to say that young players should not get an opportunity of first team football when ready. The last two words are emboldened because I fear you may have overlooked their importance. People think I'm against young and/or local players. I'm not. I'm 100% in favour of the best possible players excelling for our beloved club. They can be anything between Foetus and Corpse. They can originate from anywhere between Millhouses and Mars. If young and local - fine, but 'good enough' is the litmus test.

As for the 'England' nonsense, please have a think. England are a low level national team. That needs to be mentioned in passing, but much more importantly [and you are old enough to know this very well] the vast majority of England youth internationals fall by the wayside and either fade away completely or ply their trade in the lower reaches. May I Introduce you to Raymond Storey?

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think Reed has the ability to know what a player in his position needs to do to be successful to some degree. He lacks every motor action to translate that into end product and shows less and less sign of ever being able to so do.
He`s another Di Geralomo but without the flounce.

Good post, however how do you think good players become better players. Is it beyond his reach to become a very good player then, "motor actions" included? Is the lad destined to play football at levels just above you and me or has he got any chance? He happens to have represented England at three levels when younger than most of his England team-mates. He's already played 58 first team games for SUFC . Obviously destined for non-league football at the tender age of 19 years 3 months - complete write-off.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I dont want to misrepresent you, mate, but that could easily be translated as:
Givemarun. Givemallarun.

Every player needs to contribute to winning games. Otherwise they do not justify their professional existence. I'm beginning to think you dont 'get' a fundamental series of propositions.

1. The fundamental objective of SUFC [any professional club] is to win football matches. [I leave aside style of play and entertainment for these purposes; that's a different debate]
2. Youth development is of consequence only insofar as it assists in achieving the fundamental objective.
3. There is no independent obligation to develop youth. We are a professional football club, not a creche; not a youth club; not a facilitator of the Duke of Edinburgh Award; not the X-Factor.
4. The interests and welfare of Louis Reed [insert other name] are entirely subservient to those of the club. Where they do not coincide, proposition 1 prevails.

I would not sacrifice a single point, goal or even corner kick, to 'develop youth' for its own sake. That's a job for the Academy in front of the proverbial three men and a dog, not the heat of battle in League One. Thats not to say that young players should not get an opportunity of first team football when ready. The last two words are emboldened because I fear you may have overlooked their importance. People think I'm against young and/or local players. I'm not. I'm 100% in favour of the best possible players excelling for our beloved club. They can be anything between Foetus and Corpse. They can originate from anywhere between Millhouses and Mars. If young and local - fine, but 'good enough' is the litmus test.

As for the 'England' nonsense, please have a think. England are a low level national team. That needs to be mentioned in passing, but much more importantly [and you are old enough to know this very well] the vast majority of England youth internationals fall by the wayside and either fade away completely or ply their trade in the lower reaches. May I Introduce you to Raymond Storey?

Great post but I'm on a promise and will reply tomorrow!!

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Good post, however how do you think good players become better players. Is it beyond his reach to become a very good player then, "motor actions" included? Is the lad destined to play football at levels just above you and me or has he got any chance? He happens to have represented England at three levels when younger than most of his England team-mates. He's already played 58 first team games for SUFC . Obviously destined for non-league football at the tender age of 19 years 3 months - complete write-off.

Countless players have represented England at all levels. The majority have turned out to be average to garbage. Only recently Ricky Lambert got a shirt or two as did Michael Ricketts. Just two examples of embarressing selections. I think Jordan Henderson is pretty poor and way below the standard required of an England midfielder.
Reed will never play above League 1 as long as he has a hole in his arse.I don`t get why you bang on about sub standard players when we have first teaners deserving of plaudits. Pinchey is absolutely right in all he posts above.

 

[Silent Blade]

Good post, however how do you think good players become better players. Is it beyond his reach to become a very good player then, "motor actions" included? Is the lad destined to play football at levels just above you and me or has he got any chance? He happens to have represented England at three levels when younger than most of his England team-mates. He's already played 58 first team games for SUFC . Obviously destined for non-league football at the tender age of 19 years 3 months - complete write-off.

He may "disappear" to League 2 or non league at the end of his contract with us as it has happened to so many past England Youth/ u20s players. I doubt if Wilder has "given him up" but at the moment it is important to play our best team according to what Wilder thinks and Pinchy is right that we shouldnt "give them a run" for the sake of boosting our Academy's status

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Great post but I'm on a promise and will reply tomorrow!!

Tell Louis not to be late for training in the morning.

 

[Pinchy]

Great post but I'm on a promise and will reply tomorrow!!

Well, there's a lot to be said for a Woody....

 

[Woodwardfan]

Well, there's a lot to be said for a Woody....

What's that about a woody? I promised to help make the bed !! lol

Your other post does rather misrepresent me Pinchy and I think my posts nos. 41 and 43 cover most of it for me; things will work through over the season no doubt. I only contributed to this thread because of yours and Sean's posts below and my simple response, then Deadbat improved the thread.

Reed 5/10 – He seems to regress every season and every game I see. He either overplays passes or leaves them short. I barely noticed him for long spells of the game. Does not even find space and get on the ball like he used to. Will do well to get a league club when he will surely be released at the end of the season.

Can someone draw this to Woodwardfans attention.

Some of us have tried repeatedly. I'm afraid he's got a rare disorder of the mind known as Bladey Boyband Denial Syndrome.

We all have our mental health problems of course. I suffer from Tom Jones Syndrome. My doctor tells me It's Not Unusual.

Louis Reed just turned 19 three months ago. 58 first team appearances. Represented England at U-18, U-19 and recently U-20.

Good touch, plays with his head up, can retain possession and in open play can play a forward ball into the stride of team mates.

Plenty to build on believe me.

What I would say is that players helpful to our cause do not all have to be world-beaters. Watching Nicky Law play last Saturday and looking at his career over the years, we can only speculate what value he could add to our team even now and over all that time since he made his debut for us in the Premier League in 2006 ( I think).

We seem to be willing to give Harry Chapman a grounding on behalf of Middlesbrough, even that has been limited to date but he does get matchday first team experience every week.

 

[Silent Blade]

11

What I would say is that players helpful to our cause do not all have to be world-beaters. Watching Nicky Law play last Saturday and looking at his career over the years, we can only speculate what value he could add to our team even now and over all that time since he made his debut for us in the Premier League in 2006 ( I think).

.

Took him 10 years before he became decent at League 1 level!!! You saying we should have offered Law a 12 year contract?

 

[Woodwardfan]

11


Took him 10 years before he became decent at League 1 level!!! You saying we should have offered Law a 12 year contract?

Not at all, just an illustration, though I did like Simon Francis while he was with us as well.

Disagree about the " 10 years" mind you. McCall always rated him obviously.

 

[Silent Blade]

Not at all, just an illustration, though I did like Simon Francis while he was with us as well.

Disagree about the " 10 years" mind you. McCall always rated him obviously.

When did Nicky Law become decent at Championship level then? McCall rated Long too. Playing for Motherwell is a step down from playing in the Championship division

Thought Francis was a disappointment when he was with us. I saw him several times in reserves games at Saltergate and he often played poor. He eventually became decent at Championship level two seasons ago and now is an established Premiership player.

Wilder will always be looking for better players and wants us to get us out of this division. We cannot afford to keep too many youngsters who are "not ready" for too many years

 

[Woodwardfan]

When did Nicky Law become decent at Championship level then? McCall rated Long too. Playing for Motherwell is a step down from playing in the Championship division

Thought Francis was a disappointment when he was with us. I saw him several times in reserves games at Saltergate and he often played poor. He eventually became decent at Championship level two seasons ago and now is an established Premiership player.

Wilder will always be looking for better players and wants us to get us out of this division. We cannot afford to keep too many youngsters who are "not ready" for too many years

Agree with your last sentence but what I'm talking about is getting players ready and keeping players who are ready. With so many managerial changes good players can slip away. I'm not talking about world-beaters and I think Reed has the potential to play in our midfield for years even if we rise two levels in due course. We need our young players to make the grade and stick with us as far as possible. Good that Wilder and Knill were at the U-23 game the other night.