Scouting Mission

[The Bohemian]

I went to Goodison, last night to watch The Toffees play The Canaries and to take what may well be a final view of a proper old football stadium, which won't be in use for too much longer.

Given my strong expectation that THIS IS THE PROMOTION SEASON, I also thought I'd see if there was anyone who may do us a job in next season's Championship.

The best player on the park, by a country mile, was Everton's Gueye, who delivered everything you'd hope for from a holding midfielder - breaking up play, moving the ball on with speed and purpose, providing shape and protection to his defence and supplying the occasional killer-pass to create openings for his strikers. He's likely to be out of our reach in the near future, so I looked for more plausible alternatives.

Doing a similar job - albeit in a 'holding pair' for Norwich was Mulumbu. He was outstanding in the first half, playing a pivotal role in keeping Everton from turning dominant possession into goals. He was comfortable and tidy in possession and aggressively energetic in closing down and winning the ball back. He did tire in the second half and picked up a clumsy booking as a result. His current market value is £2.2m, but he's out of contract at the end of the season. At 29 he's probably got two more good years ahead of him, in his preferred role, but he would certainly fill the gap many of us feel still exists in centre mid.

The game wasn't inspiring but the ground and general feel of the club was. 30,000 for an early round of the EFL wasn't shabby either, especially as Norwich's following arrived in a minibus.

UTB!

 

[mattbianco1]

You got a tin hat ready The Bohemian?

 

[Stretch]

I went to Uni in Liverpool mate and after going to numerous games at both grounds I am in absolutely no doubt that Goodison was the better of the 2. An atmosphere to die for, suporters close to the pitch and very in your face, but in a nice way.
Also preferred Evertonians as supporters. Much more grounded than the red half.

 

[The Bohemian]

I went to Uni in Liverpool mate and after going to numerous games at both grounds I am in absolutely no doubt that Goodison was the better of the 2. An atmosphere to die for, suporters close to the pitch and very in your face, but in a nice way.
Also preferred Evertonians as supporters. Much more grounded than the red half.

Yes, got that impression, seemed proper diehards but without the venom. Had a beer in the city beforehand and a cup of tea in the church at the end of Gladwys Street before KO - all very cordial. The whole match day experience was a bit of a throwback and I couldn't help but chuckle at the reference to "the red shite" in their 'Grand Old Team' club song that went out over the PA before kick off (have "the pigs" ever been referenced in an 'official' Blades song?). They probably need a new stadium to progress but another piece of football's authenticity will die with Goodison.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I adore those loveable scousers;the way they don`t concern themselves about the minutae of ticket allocation,stanley knives,kick off times,and those special people that look after ones motor.
What I miss most though is singing about what a fucking hovel they occupy and how a deceased rodent forms a culinary delicacy. That and you`re gonna get your fucking heads kicked in.
Sigh.

 

[Ricky]

We can only dream of the Mulumbu's of this world I'm afraid. They're all automatically on at least 25k per week nowadays. Very different to how it was when we got relegated.

If we do get promoted then our owners better be prepared to spend a lot of money, if not they'd be running a big risk of coming straight back down - and we know how damaging that can be.

 

[itsinyerblood]

We can only dream of the Mulumbu's of this world I'm afraid. They're all automatically on at least 25k per week nowadays. Very different to how it was when we got relegated.

If we do get promoted then our owners better be prepared to spend a lot of money, if not they'd be running a big risk of coming straight back down - and we know how damaging that can be.

Ricky, I'm in agreement with your point about the owners of SUFC being prepared to up their budgetary expectations if we move from Div 1 to the Championship.

The football landscape has changed beyond belief, even at Championship level. Paying a few million for a player has become commonplace, and in accepting this new norm I'd hope that it might suggest a desire to first consolidate, then challenge for promotion. Of course, it's a given that admission prices will rise, so it should be interesting to see who buys into this approach to moving through the divisions.....of course it assumes that the board shows some resolve and acts like a club that has aspirations to compete at the highest level. For far too long I've become accustomed to being told we must think small, so it should be interesting, if we're in for contention for promotion towards the end of this season, to see how the board responds if we achieve this ambition.

 

[Ricky]

Ricky, I'm in agreement with your point about the owners of SUFC being prepared to up their budgetary expectations if we move from Div 1 to the Championship.

The football landscape has changed beyond belief, even at Championship level. Paying a few million for a player has become commonplace, and in accepting this new norm I'd hope that it might suggest a desire to first consolidate, then challenge for promotion. Of course, it's a given that admission prices will rise, so it should be interesting to see who buys into this approach to moving through the divisions.....of course it assumes that the board shows some resolve and acts like a club that has aspirations to compete at the highest level. For far too long I've become accustomed to being told we must think small, so it should be interesting, if we're in for contention for promotion towards the end of this season, to see how the board responds if we achieve this ambition.

Survival and consolidation would have to be the only aim, for at least two seasons, such is the difference between what it is now and what we left behind. Most clubs in the division are loaded, and even the ones who aren't have very strong squads. I think the days of back to back promotions from L1 to the PL are over.

We would have to spend good money, but we'd have to be smart as well. I'd like to think that with Wilder in charge and a decent scout we'd get enough with our money to stay up.

If we're in a very strong position in January the board should allow Wilder the funds to A) finish the job this season and B) build for next season with the signings of players who can make the step up.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

I went to Goodison, last night to watch The Toffees play The Canaries and to take what may well be a final view of a proper old football stadium, which won't be in use for too much longer.

Given my strong expectation that THIS IS THE PROMOTION SEASON, I also thought I'd see if there was anyone who may do us a job in next season's Championship.

The best player on the park, by a country mile, was Everton's Gueye, who delivered everything you'd hope for from a holding midfielder - breaking up play, moving the ball on with speed and purpose, providing shape and protection to his defence and supplying the occasional killer-pass to create openings for his strikers. He's likely to be out of our reach in the near future, so I looked for more plausible alternatives.

Doing a similar job - albeit in a 'holding pair' for Norwich was Mulumbu. He was outstanding in the first half, playing a pivotal role in keeping Everton from turning dominant possession into goals. He was comfortable and tidy in possession and aggressively energetic in closing down and winning the ball back. He did tire in the second half and picked up a clumsy booking as a result. His current market value is £2.2m, but he's out of contract at the end of the season. At 29 he's probably got two more good years ahead of him, in his preferred role, but he would certainly fill the gap many of us feel still exists in centre mid.

The game wasn't inspiring but the ground and general feel of the club was. 30,000 for an early round of the EFL wasn't shabby either, especially as Norwich's following arrived in a minibus.

UTB!

Been there one time when we lost 0-4 in an FA cup game. Might have been a replay. Adrian Heath was on fire. Crap experience.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I've always liked Everton a lot. The only other English club I actually do like.

 

[blade too long]

 

[itsinyerblood]

Survival and consolidation would have to be the only aim, for at least two seasons, such is the difference between what it is now and what we left behind. Most clubs in the division are loaded, and even the ones who aren't have very strong squads. I think the days of back to back promotions from L1 to the PL are over.

We would have to spend good money, but we'd have to be smart as well. I'd like to think that with Wilder in charge and a decent scout we'd get enough with our money to stay up.

If we're in a very strong position in January the board should allow Wilder the funds to A) finish the job this season and B) build for next season with the signings of players who can make the step up.

All good points Ricky. Of course we must consolidate, and it will be interesting to see how CW responds to what is a very different and more robust environment. Bring on the challenge I say, and how we react if we're willing to take on this new adventure should prove interesting. We seem to have finally got the nuts and bolts of a half decent team, no assumptions you understand, but we look strong and willing to learn and grow together. I know it's early days, but christ, it's been so long since we played at a higher level I won't apologise for thinking that in Wilder and Knill we might finally have a management team capable of delivering promotion.

 

[Ricky]

All good points Ricky. Of course we must consolidate, and it will be interesting to see how CW responds to what is a very different and more robust environment. Bring on the challenge I say, and how we react if we're willing to take on this new adventure should prove interesting. We seem to have finally got the nuts and bolts of a half decent team, no assumptions you understand, but we look strong and willing to learn and grow together. I know it's early days, but christ, it's been so long since we played at a higher level I won't apologise for thinking that in Wilder and Knill we might finally have a management team capable of delivering promotion.

The current team does give us reason to be hopeful. It all stems from the manager but in terms of the squad, we have a lot of players who should improve as the season goes on, we don't really have anyone left to sell and therefore should only get stronger in January. There doesn't seem to be any dominant force in the division yet either, they all appear inconsistent. If we can get to January in a top 6 position I'll be very confident. I'd like to think that if we do the board will sanction one or two quality signings.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

The current team does give us reason to be hopeful. It all stems from the manager but in terms of the squad, we have a lot of players who should improve as the season goes on, we don't really have anyone left to sell and therefore should only get stronger in January. There doesn't seem to be any dominant force in the division yet either, they all appear inconsistent. If we can get to January in a top 6 position I'll be very confident. I'd like to think that if we do the board will sanction one or two quality signings.

Lower the dose of meds Herb.
Lets just creep up there unseen and without fanfare.
You know it makes sense mate.

 

[Ricky]

Lower the dose of meds Herb.
Lets just creep up there unseen and without fanfare.
You know it makes sense mate.

We won't be able to creep up there unseen, we're massive.

And I'm only cautiously optimistic, no blind faith from me. We're clearly better equipped than we have been in a while to make a good go of it - you'd have to be footballistically underdeveloped not to see that.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

We won't be able to creep up there unseen, we're massive.

And I'm only cautiously optimistic, no blind faith from me. We're clearly better equipped than we have been in a while to make a good go of it - you'd have to be footballistically underdeveloped not to see that.

You and I are normally on the same page,and whilst I agree we have the makings of a team capable of pushing for promotion my ingrained and well fed pessimism re our club ensures I am more grounded than Higdon attempting to leap for a cross.

 

[Ricky]

You and I are normally on the same page,and whilst I agree we have the makings of a team capable of pushing for promotion my ingrained and well fed pessimism re our club ensures I am more grounded than Higdon attempting to leap for a cross.

You're probably right to be - now we have nobody to sell they'll probably just get badly injured instead. Maybe some bad news about Lavery can set the ball rolling.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Yes. Laverys exit from the U23 victory gave it a hollow ring. What`s your view on accommodating Clarke when he`s restored to fitness?

 

[Pinchy]

Yes. Laverys exit from the U23 victory gave it a hollow ring. What`s your view on accommodating Clarke when he`s restored to fitness?

I've got a couple of spare rooms but he'll have to contribute to household expenses and chores...

 

[Ricky]

Yes. Laverys exit from the U23 victory gave it a hollow ring. What`s your view on accommodating Clarke when he`s restored to fitness?

If Sharp and Done are producing, he won't get in, but I don't think Wilder's afraid to drop anyone if they're not playing well enough. I don't think we've seen the last of Sharp and Clarke playing together, we haven't really seen it in the 3-5-2 yet, or with Lavery on the pitch. Maybe we'll see that sort of thing in certain home games. In the long run though I think Sharp and Lavery will be the first choice partnership, and I think Clarke will start more games on the bench than the pitch this season. Might be a frustrating season for him but I do think he'll get a fair amount of starts.

 

[Silent Blade]

Been there one time when we lost 0-4 in an FA cup game. Might have been a replay. Adrian Heath was on fire. Crap experience.

League Cup 2nd round 2nd leg 1984-85

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

League Cup 2nd round 2nd leg 1984-85

Remember it well. Dismal night and the Stanley knifes were out in force from the locals in the park by the same name 'n

 

[Pinchy]

If Sharp and Done are producing, he won't get in, but I don't think Wilder's afraid to drop anyone if they're not playing well enough. I don't think we've seen the last of Sharp and Clarke playing together, we haven't really seen it in the 3-5-2 yet, or with Lavery on the pitch. Maybe we'll see that sort of thing in certain home games. In the long run though I think Sharp and Lavery will be the first choice partnership, and I think Clarke will start more games on the bench than the pitch this season. Might be a frustrating season for him but I do think he'll get a fair amount of starts.

Circumstances will arise in which he gets a chance. That's as it should be. It's then up to him. If he takes it, he'll keep the shirt and someone else will have to take their turn. I believe Leon has a big part to play, though not by chasing aimless punts. That's not Tufty football, happily.

 

[alcoblade]

We won't be able to creep up there unseen, we're massive.

And I'm only cautiously optimistic, no blind faith from me. We're clearly better equipped than we have been in a while to make a good go of it - you'd have to be footballistically underdeveloped not to see that.

When you say "clearly equipped" - are you basing that on the last 4 games, because prior to that I was collecting your dummies based on the quality of signings being made!

But seriously, have you re evaluated the signings we've made?

UTB

 

[Ricky]

When you say "clearly equipped" - are you basing that on the last 4 games, because prior to that I was collecting your dummies based on the quality of signings being made!

But seriously, have you re evaluated the signings we've made?

UTB

It's not possible to express disappointment without being accused of 'dummy spitting' by some people is it?

My main issue was with us not signing another midfielder, something which I still think will hold us back, and watching targets go elsewhere. Not the quality of the signings we made - go back and have a look what I thought about Moore, Fleck, Duffy and Lavery for starters.

It's primarily based on having better quality and better depth than we've had previously. The team has also started to function well early in the season with the manager showing some key attributes. We were better equipped than the last two seasons before the Bolton game, and we're better equipped now than we were before Bolton.

 

[alcoblade]

It's not possible to express disappointment without being accused of 'dummy spitting' by some people is it?

My main issue was with us not signing another midfielder, something which I still think will hold us back, and watching targets go elsewhere. Not the quality of the signings we made - go back and have a loAok what I thought about Moore, Fleck, Duffy and Lavery for starters.

It's primarily based on having better quality and better depth than we've had previously. The team has also started to function well early in the season with the manager showing some key attributes. We were better equipped than the last two seasons before the Bolton game, and we're better equipped now than we were before Bolton.

Awwe come on Ricky - it was a bit more than "expressing disappointment", wasn't it

"He's got pace, so we won't be interested" was a typical comment. You were totally unimpressed by the signings we were making.

Now of course, if this was down to the irrational way most of people judge football based on too short term timeframes (several losses together), you're in a huge majority. But it's not necessarily right.

But if you really think we're better equipped, let's remember that when we lose the next 3 on the bounce.

UTB

PS - I was hugely disappointed we didn't strengthen midfield. And who'd of thought it would be "Paul Coutts to the rescue!".

 

[Ricky]

Awwe come on Ricky - it was a bit more than "expressing disappointment", wasn't it

"He's got pace, so we won't be interested" was a typical comment. You were totally unimpressed by the signings we were making.

Now of course, if this was down to the irrational way most of people judge football based on too short term timeframes (several losses together), you're in a huge majority. But it's not necessarily right.

But if you really think we're better equipped, let's remember that when we lose the next 3 on the bounce.

UTB

PS - I was hugely disappointed we didn't strengthen midfield. And who'd of thought it would be "Paul Coutts to the rescue!".

As I said, go back and actually read what I said about our signings. The sort of comment you refer to is nothing like a fair representation of my typical comments.

Look at this what I posted on 1 September. Post 42. That was before we won four on the bounce. Doesn't look like someone who thought we made shit signings and over reacts to short term results to me! http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.ph...for-better-or-worse.49006/page-3#post-1102655

 

[alcoblade]

As I said, go back and actually read what I said about our signings. The sort of comment you refer to is nothing like a fair representation of my typical comments.

Look at this what I posted on 1 September. Post 42. That was before we won four on the bounce. Doesn't look like someone who thought we made shit signings and over reacts to short term results to me! http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.ph...for-better-or-worse.49006/page-3#post-1102655

I don't need to go back - I pointed out that you'd spat your dummy out at the time, and you accepted that. You were very disappointed with events and your emotions obviously weren't derived from feeling that "we're clearly better equipped" at that time.

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/cameron-stewart.49009/#post-1100828

Specifically: "If by spitting the dummy out you mean being unhappy with the club's (seemingly inevitable) failure to adequately strengthen, poor decisions and inability to get things done, then yes, I may have spat it out today -"

Anyway, I was only pulling your leg. Who cares, really.

UTB

 

[Ricky]

I don't need to go back - I pointed out that you'd spat your dummy out at the time, and you accepted that. You were very disappointed with events and your emotions obviously weren't derived from feeling that "we're clearly better equipped" at that time.

Anyway, I was only pulling your leg. Who cares, really.

UTB

Obviously it's not possible that I was frustrated because we weren't as equipped as I wanted (and expected) us to be... I want us to win this division you see.

 

[alcoblade]

Obviously it's not possible that I was frustrated because we weren't as equipped as I wanted (and expected) us to be... I want us to win this division you see.

And you'd be no different to everyone else. But just as after a few defeats I pointed out that some people were reacting a bit emotionally, after a few wins there's a danger of the same happening.

I'm with you now - we are better equipped that last season in my opinion too. Let's see if we can both hold that line after a bad run.

UTB