Thank god George Long did bad

[Bladeinleeds]

It's interesting that Ebanks-Landell's performance was rated so highly despite Moore getting MOTM after making 10 good saves. It's not a big stretch to assume we'd have lost with Long between the sticks, but would Ebanks-Landell have still been given such positive reviews?

Think eel did everything asked of him - All but a couple of those saves were long range shots which he couldn't do much to stop occurring.

He did however clear pretty much everything that came his way, and seemed alert to danger and put his body on the line when required. I've been pleasantly surprised so far given the wolves fans drew comparisons to Collins when we signed him - he's significant better physically and also on the ball.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I think he'd be on it now, don't you?...

Yes.

 

[Chali 2na]

As a qualified FA coach I`d suggest that if,after several years a player,in this case a GK who occupies the most important position on the park,has failed to reach a required standard and regularly makes the same mistakes as well as being unable to develop and exhibit the specific skills required;ie communication,catching,organising his defence,commanding his area;then the coach responsible hasn`t either done his job or has "bottled" telling the gaffer the keeper just isn`t good enough.
It`s not Large Hadron Collider complicated.

Or the player may not have the ability.
Or the player may not have the required mentality.
Or the player has been surrounded by players that undermine his confidence.
Or the player has not been given the correct instructions.
Or any/all of the above

One player failing is not an indictment of failing coaching staff. There are a host of factors to consider why a player might have failed to reach their potential.

I remain baffled by anyone who questions him without seeing his techniques, based purely on one player not reaching his aledged potential.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Or the player may not have the ability.
Or the player may not have the required mentality.
Or the player has been surrounded by players that undermine his confidence.
Or the player has not been given the correct instructions.
Or any/all of the above

One player failing is not an indictment of failing coaching staff. There are a host of factors to consider why a player might have failed to reach their potential.

I remain baffled by anyone who questions him without seeing his techniques, based purely on one player not reaching his aledged potential.

Because as the Goalkeeper his relationship with his coach is totally different to that of all the outfield players. It`s 1 to 1, not 1 to 21.
It`s impossible for the keeper coach not to see the flaws in Longs game. And what`s appalling is they were allowed to remain as he was allowed to remain in goal costing us God knows how many points.

 

[Weasel]

In my case, I only wanted Long back in because Howard was even worse, and I think Long was an improvement on old chocolate hands.

Unfortunately, it was a bit like saying Sammon was an improvement on Higdon, when neither were good enough.

Do you mean...he was the best of a bad bunch?

Incidentally i totally agree with your point. It was like choosing which one of the spice girls youd shag..when ideally you would only want to fettle their bank balances.

 

[Weasel]

Ive thought about it some more. Id bone emma bunton or that sporty one in a shot you can disregard my previous post. The others especially Mrs Becks, i still wouldnt scuttle if i had nob rot.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Really happy with Moore however long had to deal with the Albatross that was Collins in front of him for a couple of seasons and without any other real centre backs the odds were stacked against him. I don't think he's as bad as some make out but perhaps a change of scenery will do him good.

Totally agree, Long isn't as a bad as some people are saying.

I reckon in training he's pretty impressive, especially with shot stopping.

The main 2 problems with George were
1: Commanding the area, having presence, coming off his line.
When we had Harry Maguire he would do the commanding so Georges weakness wasn't exposed.
The problem is we had a vulnerable defence in the past 2 years putting extra pressure in Long.

2: Confidence and mental toughness.
He's a local lad playing for the biggest team in the league with the biggest expectation and pressure.
This weakness might just be temporary and a move away (even a loan) could help rebuild his career.

 

[Chali 2na]

Because as the Goalkeeper his relationship with his coach is totally different to that of all the outfield players. It`s 1 to 1, not 1 to 21.
It`s impossible for the keeper coach not to see the flaws in Longs game. And what`s appalling is they were allowed to remain as he was allowed to remain in goal costing us God knows how many points.

You make the assumption that Darren Ward saw the flaws in Long's game and completely ignored them. For all we know, he was on the phone to the manager everyday insisting that Long wasn't ready.

We don't know whether or not the goalkeeper coaching was sufficient and we don't know Darren Ward's thoughts on Long are. Neither of which has stopped you coming to the baseless conclusion that it's the goalkeeping coach's fault.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Totally agree, Long isn't as a bad as some people are saying.

I reckon in training he's pretty impressive, especially with shot stopping.

The main 2 problems with George were
1: Commanding the area, having presence, coming off his line.
When we had Harry Maguire he would do the commanding so Georges weakness wasn't exposed.
The problem is we had a vulnerable defence in the past 2 years putting extra pressure in Long.

2: Confidence and mental toughness.
He's a local lad playing for the biggest team in the league with the biggest expectation and pressure.
This weakness might just be temporary and a move away (even a loan) could help rebuild his career.

He was loaned to Oxford and Motherwell. They clearly weren`t that impressed.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

You make the assumption that Darren Ward saw the flaws in Long's game and completely ignored them. For all we know, he was on the phone to the manager everyday insisting that Long wasn't ready.

We don't know whether or not the goalkeeper coaching was sufficient and we don't know Darren Ward's thoughts on Long are. Neither of which has stopped you coming to the baseless conclusion that it's the goalkeeping coach's fault.

It`s not a baseless conclusion at all. I`m baffled you want to excuse a poor player;inadequate coach and/or a shit,or deaf manager but someone is to blame for Long being allowed so many games;and it isn`t Long.

My money is on Ward. Funny how Wilder has grasped the nettle after planks like Adkins and Clough largely let Long fanny around largely unchecked.

 

[Weasel]

Not sure how anyone can definitively say it was the coaches fault (though maybe they didnt cover themselves in glory who knows?). Bottom line he was picked consistently by the team manager(s) and despite many examples of dodgy goalkeeping from both Long and Howard, non of our quality managers thought that it was worthwhile trying to find a better un. It was bordering on negligence by both Clough and Adkins (same as the centre half situation also). A decent manager would have seen the deficiencies and acted asap. I give you 4 x centre halves and a brand new keeper all in the first transfer window by Wildthing. Clearly it wasnt too difficult to see the problems provided you have a fkin clue. Thank the lord we now have CW.

 

[Pinchy]

Ive thought about it some more. Id bone emma bunton or that sporty one in a shot you can disregard my previous post. The others especially Mrs Becks, i still wouldnt scuttle if i had nob rot.

I'd sooner shag them than listen to them 'sing'...

 

[Chali 2na]

It`s not a baseless conclusion at all. I`m baffled you want to excuse a poor player;inadequate coach and/or a shit,or deaf manager but someone is to blame for Long being allowed so many games;and it isn`t Long.

My money is on Ward. Funny how Wilder has grasped the nettle after planks like Adkins and Clough largely let Long fanny around largely unchecked.

I'm not blaming or excusing anyone.
I'm simply saying; it's unreasonable to blame the goalkeeping coach for the failings of one individual, and without seeing his methods or hearing his conversations, your opinion of him is based on assumptions.

 

[BushBlade]

Ive thought about it some more. Id bone emma bunton or that sporty one in a shot you can disregard my previous post. The others especially Mrs Becks, i still wouldnt scuttle if i had nob rot.

No, any of them. The older I get, the less I give a shit.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

How many more pages can we get of repetitive criticism of a Blades goalkeeper?

(I'm doing my bit by posting)

 

[Deleted member 875]

I'm amazed that we have gone through 5 or 6 managers, and Chris Wilder is the first one to have seen fit to buy a goalkeeper to replace Mark Howard or George Long.

I've seen enough quality keepers to be able to recognise a decent keeper and to be able to offer a subjective analysis on goalkeepers.

Mark Howard was usable as a lower league keeper but wasn't big enough to be commanding on crosses, and would often get beaten by long range efforts

George Long was tactically poor, poor on crosses and struggled to communicate with his defenders, I saw him play for the last 5 years for United and early I knew there was raw potential there, but he never kicked on, and I think if he wasn't going to make a substantial improvement over 100 games then he was never going to improve.

Simon Moore is a cut above both, a good shot stopper, commanding on crosses, his only I've seen is his kicking, he is also at an age where he can still improve a lot. From what I've seen so far, we have brought in a superb goalkeeper

 

[wizadry]

Long not good enough, Moore looks better and could prove to be good enough for a promotion winning side, ultimately we'll have to wait and see but early signs are good and for me it's one of many decisions CW has got right. CW isn't stubborn and that's the main thing I like about his management skills.

 

[BushBlade]

Long not good enough, Moore looks better and could prove to be good enough for a promotion winning side, ultimately we'll have to wait and see but early signs are good and for me it's one of many decisions CW has got right. CW isn't stubborn and that's the main thing I like about his management skills.

I wonder if that's partly to do with Knill? They seem to be a quite equal partnership and maybe Knill is very candid about things. You can overthink things and I've found that if you talk to someone you trust, you often work out the right answer before you finished asking the question. Perhaps when he's not sure on something he's got Knill to say 'Chris, he's not doing it' or 'I agree, he's looked good in training, put him on the bench and give him twenty'

 

[wizadry]

I wonder if that's partly to do with Knill? They seem to be a quite equal partnership and maybe Knill is very candid about things. You can overthink things and I've found that if you talk to someone you trust, you often work out the right answer before you finished asking the question. Perhaps when he's not sure on something he's got Knill to say 'Chris, he's not doing it' or 'I agree, he's looked good in training, put him on the bench and give him twenty'

It's hard to say really but I certainly wouldn't rule it out and AK seems to be singing off the same hymn sheet as CW.

It's so refreshing either way after the stubborn cunts we've put up with in recent seasons, long may it continue.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It's hard to say really but I certainly wouldn't rule it out and AK seems to be singing off the same hymn sheet as CW.

It's so refreshing either way after the stubborn cunts we've put up with in recent seasons, long may it continue.

I'm sure Knill was the boss at Halifax with Wilder being his assistant.

It just shows what a management team they are when they've been able to swap roles. Most people couldn't handle this situation.

I've often thought coaches/ assistant managers are made whereas managers/ leaders are born.

You see loads of examples where great tactical coaches aren't able to make the step up to being a manager. Being a good manager is about leadership, motivation, knowing individuals and influencing staff and players around you.

I get the impression Knill is the tactical brains of the set up whereas Wilder has the passion and communication ability to bollock players. It's a good Kop, bad Kop dual management team.

The players are a bit frightened of Wilder which is a good thing because he has their respect.

 

[BerksBlade]

Totally agree, Long isn't as a bad as some people are saying.

I reckon in training he's pretty impressive, especially with shot stopping.

The main 2 problems with George were
1: Commanding the area, having presence, coming off his line.
When we had Harry Maguire he would do the commanding so Georges weakness wasn't exposed.
The problem is we had a vulnerable defence in the past 2 years putting extra pressure in Long.

2: Confidence and mental toughness.
He's a local lad playing for the biggest team in the league with the biggest expectation and pressure.
This weakness might just be temporary and a move away (even a loan) could help rebuild his career.

I think most regular watchers have worked out the flaws in George's game. The problem is that he doesn't seem to have done much over the last couple of seasons to address them. Maybe he would benefit from a fresh start somewhere else.

That said - wasn't it Wilder who offered him a contract? So he must have seen something (as he supposedly went to games as a supporter before he got the manager's job).

As you say Sheffsteel, George wan't helped by a shaky defence. When I think back, Paddy wasn't short on confidence, but would often stay rooted on his line for corners, leaving Morgs & co. to head it away. Set pieces have been a problem for 2-3 seasons.

 

[zablade]

I will be comfortable if we make it until Xmas without Moore getting injured as we need to bring in a decent back up keeper as well.

One poor challenge from an oposition forward and we only have Calamity George and a young kid in Ramsdale to choose from.

 

[wizadry]

I'm sure Knill was the boss at Halifax with Wilder being his assistant.

It just shows what a management team they are when they're able to swap roles.

I've often thought coaches/ assistant managers are made whereas managers/ leaders are born.

You see loads of examples where great tactical coaches aren't able to make the step up to being a manager. Being a good manager is about leadership, motivation, knowing individuals and influencing staff and players around you.

I get the impression Knill is the tactical brains of the set up whereas Wilder has the passion and communication ability to bollock players. It's a good Kop, bad Kop dual management team.

I think yours and BushBlade 's posts bring up some great points and imo won't be far from the truth and that's only if they aren't the truth.

 

[Weasel]

I will be comfortable if we make it until Xmas without Moore getting injured as we need to bring in a decent back up keeper as well.

One poor challenge from an oposition forward and we only have Calamity George and a young kid in Ramsdale to choose from.

Whilst i see your logic in wanting CW to bring in a decent back up keeper, i think we will probably stick with the current keepers during this season. Mainly because i think they will want to hopefully get Moore in as undisputed number 1 for this season and whilst we have George there we do have cover. Also, if necessary i think loans for goalkeepers are permitted unlike outfield players so there is an insurance there. I like the fact that CW has put young Rammers on the bench recently as it gets him used to the match day experience and makes him feel part of the first team set up which must be great for his confidence. Also it means that Long has been removed from the firing line and mayne that is just what he needs to get his focus and confidence back. I could potentially see Long move on in January if things havent changed dramatically for him. Then its whether wilder wants to keep young Ramsdale close to the squad or get him out playing first team football somewhere. If its the latter then we might need a short term back up for Moore. Cheeky bid for Peterboroughs keeper or Port Vales?

 

[Chali 2na]

I think most regular watchers have worked out the flaws in George's game. The problem is that he doesn't seem to have done much over the last couple of seasons to address them. Maybe he would benefit from a fresh start somewhere else.

That said - wasn't it Wilder who offered him a contract? So he must have seen something (as he supposedly went to games as a supporter before he got the manager's job).

As you say Sheffsteel, George wan't helped by a shaky defence. When I think back, Paddy wasn't short on confidence, but would often stay rooted on his line for corners, leaving Morgs & co. to head it away. Set pieces have been a problem for 2-3 seasons.

We offered George Long a deal for the same reason Sheff Wed offered Lavery a contract: without doing so, we would have been unable to receive compensation should he have moved elsewhere.

 

[TC's Magic Boots]

I'd say the modern game is a better comparator. Kasper Schmeichel, at Long's age was playing in League 2 for Notts County. He's just won the premier league. I don't think George will make it at a high level. But nor do I think he will be a non-league keeper at 30. I suspect he'll either be playing League 1, or a second choice keeper at a championship club.

But KS had a presence about him at 16 .. you knew he was going to make it at a good level. No-one thought he would win the premier league but his confidence and ability set him apart from others. Long never had the confidence.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Ive thought about it some more. Id bone emma bunton or that sporty one in a shot you can disregard my previous post. The others especially Mrs Becks, i still wouldnt scuttle if i had nob rot.

Sporty is the worst of the lot for me. Scary is/ was the best.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He was loaned to Oxford and Motherwell. They clearly weren`t that impressed.

Seem to remember him finishing very strong at Motherwell with a MoM performance that saw them beat Rangers in the playoffs.


Morgs spoke very highly of Long at one of those “an evening with..” functions that I went to. Couldn’t praise him highly enough and went on and on about how he would be a top keeper although his emphasis was on “will be” rather than “is”.


I’m not sure I agree but he must have something to be held in such high regard.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It`s not a baseless conclusion at all. I`m baffled you want to excuse a poor player;inadequate coach and/or a shit,or deaf manager but someone is to blame for Long being allowed so many games;and it isn`t Long.

My money is on Ward. Funny how Wilder has grasped the nettle after planks like Adkins and Clough largely let Long fanny around largely unchecked.

Clough dropped him a couple of months after being appointed and Howard was number 1 for nearly all of his reign.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Not sure how anyone can definitively say it was the coaches fault (though maybe they didnt cover themselves in glory who knows?). Bottom line he was picked consistently by the team manager(s) and despite many examples of dodgy goalkeeping from both Long and Howard, non of our quality managers thought that it was worthwhile trying to find a better un. It was bordering on negligence by both Clough and Adkins (same as the centre half situation also). A decent manager would have seen the deficiencies and acted asap. I give you 4 x centre halves and a brand new keeper all in the first transfer window by Wildthing. Clearly it wasnt too difficult to see the problems provided you have a fkin clue. Thank the lord we now have CW.

That’s an incredibly simplistic view. You make it sound like a level playing field. Wilder was able to start with an almost blank canvass. Adkins was carrying the weight of McEveley, Collins, McGahey, Howard, Alcock etc. round his neck when he came in. He brought Edgar and eventually Baptiste in. I’m sure he’d have done it sooner if he’d not been lumbered with so much dross on the wage bill.