A good result - but...

[RealMcCoy]

Duffy had at least 3 shots from open play.

All from outside the box weren't they?

Maybe Keef dozed off for the 2nd half?
To be fair, I certainly did!

I think Keith's point was that we don't get enough players in numbers into the box when we have possession in an advanced position. I haven't watched the whole game, but I have watched other games this season and make he has a point. Hence the low scoring records for all our midfield players. Duffy's record is better, but so far this season, whilst I think he shows promise, his performances have been mixed.

 

[tyke1889]

I don't think he tried to score from there. It was an impossible angle.

I agree, having seen the replay i'd say that Sharp hooks his foot around it to pull it back. I doubt he'd seen Freeman but was putting it back into the danger area for someone.

 

[RealMcCoy]

I don't think he tried to score from there. It was an impossible angle.

I agree, I also think it's a ridiculous criticism to level to suggest he "miskicked" a shot when he kept the ball in play and the chance alive for Freeman.

 

[Kabba Kabba Doo]

Why do we write off penalties as goals? Takes unbelievable nerve to take one especially one in the 89th minute for a potential winner with the keeper chirping away at you, and I never feel confident when Billy steps up to take one but he always (barring one i think) delivers!

 

[TC's Magic Boots]

He didn't miskick it, he was putting it back into the danger area, was never a shot in a million years. He worked hard on Sunday but I don't think he is unfit, he has always been like that throughout his career. He relies on service for his goals and he has the ability to be exactly where the ball falls in the box. Unfortunately we don't have players that can put it there. I would however like to see Done and Clarke have a run in the side and see if the movement improves.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Why do we write off penalties as goals? Takes unbelievable nerve to take one especially one in the 89th minute for a potential winner with the keeper chirping away at you, and I never feel confident when Billy steps up to take one but he always (barring one i think) delivers!

Good observation mate. There's a few seconds for the taker to compose himself, then there's the GK doing his best to cause the taker's concentration to waver. So yes, it's a goal (surely the whole point of what we need to do?), plain and simple. Just view it as a forward one-on-one with the keeper, slightly different dynamic, but all part of this wonderful game.

 

[DronnieBlade]

It is the opposite of pot/kettle. It's about assessing every player objectively with the main emphasis on the team's success, rather than individual.

Sharp scored 21 goals last season, Clarke 18, both in average performing teams. On the basis of that alone, you'd expect them to be deadly together, with an improved squad and a new, recent promotion winning manager. Yet, when we played them as our central combination up top, our results were:

View attachment 19690

After this Wilder picked Done as his main striker. Although Done has yet to score he's given us movement, aggression and some pace up front, which has helped us stretch opposition teams, opening up more space for us to play in, and we've had three really positive games since, a start of an unbeaten run.

I think this illustrates the importance of getting the balance right, more than just selecting 11 individuals with decent previous records.

Regarding Sharp he has kept his place, but not played better in general play. Too many attacks have broken down when we've tried to include him, with defenders regularly just taking the ball off him. Hopefully the assist and goal on Sunday will give him a lift and help him improve his overall game.

"Regarding Sharp he has kept his place, but not played better in general play."

Better than what exactly Bergen ?

Better than our other strikers ?

Better than Diego Costa ?

"Too many attacks have broken down when we've tried to include him, with defenders regularly just taking the ball off him."

Are you quite sure about this ?

From my seat, our retention of possession of the football (most surely the key measure here, or perhaps you disagree with this as well!) has actually been very good in these instances. Quite the opposite it would appear to what you claim to be seeing.

Funny old game

UTB

 

[Champagneblade]

Still find it amusing the Sharp having an assist.

As if he got his head up....saw the advancing Freeman and laid an inch perfect cross into his path? Hmmm!

Yes it goes down as an assist. But let's not Kidd ourselves that it was anything other than a miscued shot that Freeman gambled on a rebound of a keeper. The fact it turned into a cross was due to Sharp dragging his left foot shot.

That's the thing with assists isn't it, they are not always very representative of the overall move - I thought the cross from Lafferty with the outside of his left foot into the danger area was a piece of skill much more worthy of comment than Billy scruffily rolling the ball across the goal in the aftermatch of Lafferty creating the mayhem that led to the goal, yet he gets little credit for this, at least statistically.

You could have Messi waltz around the entire opposition, pass to Neymar who side foots 2 yards towards and empty goal and Suarez pokes it in. Messi gets nothing in terms of the stats.

It's a flawed method but the best there is out there presently.

 

[Revolution]

It's a flawed method but the best there is out there presently.

Clubs have better data (well, EPL clubs) but its proprietary and not publicly available. They are measuring all sorts of things.

 

[Bergen Blade]

"Regarding Sharp he has kept his place, but not played better in general play."

Better than what exactly Bergen ?

Better than our other strikers ?

Better than Diego Costa ?

"Too many attacks have broken down when we've tried to include him, with defenders regularly just taking the ball off him."

Are you quite sure about this ?

From my seat, our retention of possession of the football (most surely the key measure here, or perhaps you disagree with this as well!) has actually been very good in these instances. Quite the opposite it would appear to what you claim to be seeing.

Funny old game

UTB

Yes, obviously I meant better than Diego Costa.

When you say silly things like that, people will suspect you're not after a good, honest exchange of opinions, and consequently avoid wasting time debating with you.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I fully agree with Bergen Blade and you only have to look at the ratings given by Blades on here for the first few games to know that most feel that Sharp has not been at his best. He's not suggesting he should be dropped but he shouldn't be immune if it's for the betterment of the team as a whole.

I wouldn't think CW will drop him either being as he made him captain and because of his work rate on the whole. It has been noticeable in the last few games how CW wants his forwards to press defenders and that's why he's got Sharp, Done and Scougall in particular doing exactly that.

It was obvious that the Clarke/Sharp partnership failed to ignite and Done was brought in. It's still not clicking as we'd like but it's certainly improving as is the form of Sharp.

Note : no facts were quoted in this post.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Yes, obviously I meant better than Diego Costa.

When you say silly things like that, people will suspect you're not after a good, honest exchange of opinions, and consequently avoid wasting time debating with you.

Yep. That surely would be one way of viewing it.

There might be others.

There might not.

And i assume you are kidding about actually meaning Costa in the first place ?

I, of course, was being deadly serious

UTB

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

If sharp scores 20 goals this season and sets up another 5 he can do what he likes for the rest of it for me.

 

[Bergen Blade]

A goal from getting on the end of a set piece into the box can't be placed in the same category as a penalty.

Both came from set pieces. It doesn't make either less important or impressive, but I'm not expecting set piece goals to be the area where we score considerably more than most teams - hence me wanting to focus on how to improve and score more goals from open play.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I agree with every word of that, but that is different from what you said above, when you talk about putting other forwards into the side in an attempt to increase goals overall. This will not work because the contribution from midfield will be minimal again, because with the exception of signing Duffy nothing was done to address that.

And if Sharp continues to be Mediocre and yet maintains a one in two game scoring rate (although I do not see how this is mediocre for a forward) then yes, he is an automatic pick.

And I apologise for an argumentative tone, but defending goalscorers when our major problem since the jailing of Evans has been a lack of goals is a tiresome thing to do.

If "our contribution from midfield will be minimal again", where do you see the 20 goals from Sharp will take us this season?

 

[Ricky]

Both came from set pieces. It doesn't make either less important or impressive, but I'm not expecting set piece goals to be the area where we score considerably more than most teams - hence me wanting to focus on how to improve and score more goals from open play.

But they're obviously very different goals and can't be put in the same bracket from Sharp's point of view. He took the penalty, he didn't take the free kick. Getting on the end of a free kick and scoring requires the same attributes that scoring in open play does - anticipation, movement, timing, responsiveness, finishing. Things a goalscorer's judged by. I'm not questioning the focus on open play.

 

[Bergen Blade]

But they're obviously very different goals and can't be put in the same bracket from Sharp's point of view. He took the penalty, he didn't take the free kick. Getting on the end of a free kick and scoring requires the same attributes that scoring in open play does - anticipation, movement, timing, responsiveness, finishing. Things a goalscorer's judged by. I'm not questioning the focus on open play.

Think we agree, but I'm seeing it from the team's point of view, not Sharp's. I'm expecting an average number of set piece goals (pens, free kicks, corners, throw ins). Consequently, to win promotion we must score more than most from open play.

 

[northsomersetblade]

Think we agree, but I'm seeing it from the team's point of view, not Sharp's. I'm expecting an average number of set piece goals (pens, free kicks, corners, throw ins). Consequently, to win promotion we must score more than most from open play.

Kinell, now we are talking about quality of goal scored. We get fine very quickly I notice, we must be getting better quickly. Next thing we know we will only be able accept 40 yard volleys

A goals a goal, as Brian Clough said, or if he didn't, he should have, because it is. And it definitely only takes a second to score one

 

[sheffielder]

If sharp scores 20 goals this season and sets up another 5 he can do what he likes for the rest of it for me.

Some people think that cost us promotion last season, so he need to aim higher

 

[Cerberus Blade]

We can't keep making the excuse about strikers not getting the service though chaps, even though that may be part of it. What you've got to ask yourself is this: when they do have ball at feet, what do they do with it?

 

[Revolution]

If "our contribution from midfield will be minimal again", where do you see the 20 goals from Sharp will take us this season?

It will stop us being relegated, like last season.

 

[Silent Blade]

It will stop us being relegated, like last season.

We werent even close to relegation at all last season!

 

[Pollingtonblade]

We werent even close to relegation at all last season!

We would have been without Sharps 20 goals.

 

[Silent Blade]

We would have been without Sharps 20 goals.

Adkins made poor signings (all on high wages) and his negative tactics cost our chances of a play off place. We lacked pace up front ALL season

 

[Champagneblade]

To be fair, we wouldn't have been without Sharp's 21 goals.

That would not have reduced us to ten men for the campaign.

His 48 appearances would have been taken by another player.

Sharp was indeed one of the better performers. The question you could ask is:

A. If given a run of 48 games, would one of the other existing players done better? In Done's case he did achieve more goals and assists than Sharp did, during his previous season.

B. If not an existing player, with 500k per annum in wages and 300k in fees, could a more effective player have been brought in?

To Silent's point, Adkins' team woefully lacked pace. There is therefore the argument that investing in that may have led the team to be more effective overall.

It's a difficult argument to nail. You'd accept your main striker getting 20+ goals as being success but having no pace in the team hurt our overall effectiveness. By how many goals, almost impossible to say.

I don't want to start slagging Sharp off but it's all about choices. You can have Billy Sharp for an outlay of 1.3m over 2 years or you can persevere with McNulty who scored 13 the previous year, who you had already and probably costs you 300k over 2 years in wages and then spend 1m on something else.

Adkins clearly didn't know what the priorities were and certainly wasn't able to source players capable of filling them. We'd have arguably been no worse if he signed nobody and just went with what he inherited given the negative to nil impact of most of his signings.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Kinell, now we are talking about quality of goal scored. We get fine very quickly I notice, we must be getting better quickly. Next thing we know we will only be able accept 40 yard volleys

A goals a goal, as Brian Clough said, or if he didn't, he should have, because it is. And it definitely only takes a second to score one

Maybe it's because I've explained it poorly, but you do not understand what I mean.

 

[Bergen Blade]

It will stop us being relegated, like last season.

If that's the height of your expectations, I understand why you think achieving good balance, getting team selections and tactics just right, finding good attacking rhythm etc is a load of bollocks.

 

[Revolution]

To be fair, we wouldn't have been without Sharp's 21 goals.

That would not have reduced us to ten men for the campaign.

His 48 appearances would have been taken by another player.

Sharp was indeed one of the better performers. The question you could ask is:

A. If given a run of 48 games, would one of the other existing players done better? In Done's case he did achieve more goals and assists than Sharp did, during his previous season.

B. If not an existing player, with 500k per annum in wages and 300k in fees, could a more effective player have been brought in?

To Silent's point, Adkins' team woefully lacked pace. There is therefore the argument that investing in that may have led the team to be more effective overall.

It's a difficult argument to nail. You'd accept your main striker getting 20+ goals as being success but having no pace in the team hurt our overall effectiveness. By how many goals, almost impossible to say.

I don't want to start slagging Sharp off but it's all about choices. You can have Billy Sharp for an outlay of 1.3m over 2 years or you can persevere with McNulty who scored 13 the previous year, who you had already and probably costs you 300k over 2 years in wages and then spend 1m on something else.

Adkins clearly didn't know what the priorities were and certainly wasn't able to source players capable of filling them. We'd have arguably been no worse if he signed nobody and just went with what he inherited given the negative to nil impact of most of his signings.

Yes, another player? Which one?

We had Che Adams, who everyone tells me is no good and who played most of the games anyway, and McNulty, who was banished on loan (but who I would have kept around), and Done, who was injured for the first half of the campaign (so it wouldn't have been him, contrary to what you say above), and Conor Sammon, who played half of the games anyway and who was rubbish.

So it would have been another forward? Who? Sharp wasn't blocking any youth player (DCL never looked like scoring). We don't know. What we do know is that Nigel Adkins would have been picking the player. that's worrying.

The idea that Sharp hurt that team is a joke. Having no pace generally hurt the team, agreed. Having a good goalscorer in front of a shocking midfield was a help, as he put chances away.

The idea that we would have been better off without Sharp, when this club has had the grand total of 3 20+ league goalscorers since 1990, seems to me to be wild speculation.

Again, people airily dismiss 20 goal a season stirkers as if they are easily replaceable. Incredible.

 

[Revolution]

If that's the height of your expectations, I understand why you think achieving good balance, getting team selections and tactics just right, finding good attacking rhythm etc is a load of bollocks.

I don't think it's bollocks. I think it's impossible to do better without Sharp, especially with the least creative set of midfield players I have ever seen in my life.

We tried your "balance" with Scougall, Reed and Basham in 2014-5. Didn't get us the goals we needed as I recall as none of them could shoot or play a killer pass to save their lives. The tools are not there for the job you want them to do. Hence a 20 goal a season striker, slow as he may be, has his uses.

 

[Grizzly blade]

McNulty got 13 the previous season under Clough, with less starts and no penalties.

I think it's a fair point that is being made, when folk suggest that perhaps McNulty might have been able to score a similar amount of goals than sharp and we could have utilised the money elsewhere.

Anyway, that plonker has gone thank god.