Youth

[larkymasher]

And the majority drop out of the league system.
Some go into non league and as they mature and reach the potential shown in academies and force their way back to pro football.
Some choose other careers.

But in my opinion the players who are getting games at 16/17/18 regularly are the special talents. I agree decent lads who might make good honest pro's at this level need blooding and games. But for me it's out on loan elsewhere and at a lower level than us.
Somewhere where they can make the odd mistake and not be punished for it. Where there's less pressure and an environment more akin to learning from it. After all, making mistakes is still the best way to learn IMHO.

If they cannot handle it in non league/L2 then they can be moved on. We need to get these lads out on loan now. Recall clauses included just in case. Whatever level we can find them...get them out there.

So, what would you do with Semple? Captain of the u23s... 17 years old. Bare in mind he is too young to go out on loan as he is still technically a second year scholar and does his education each week. CW says he will be ready in 6 months, that was 3 months ago.

 

[Bergen Blade]

How about putting some names to faces here:

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

How about putting some names to faces here:

View attachment 19414

Our next manager knocks around with them lot . Lovely lad Travis . Got Kevs ear . Being groomed to take over . Getting all his badges . A bit like Pep , Clemence , Jose all rolled in to one .

Watch your back Chris Wilder . Politics .

Syndicalism . Yes sir .

UTB

 

[larkymasher]

Our next manager knocks around with them lot . Lovely lad Travis . Got Kevs ear . Being groomed to take over . Getting all his badges . A bit like Pep , Clemence , Jose all rolled in to one .

Watch your back Chris Wilder . Politics .

Syndicalism . Yes sir .

UTB

Sounds like you've got Kev's ear more than Young Travis

 

[Grizzly blade]

So, what would you do with Semple? Captain of the u23s... 17 years old. Bare in mind he is too young to go out on loan as he is still technically a second year scholar and does his education each week. CW says he will be ready in 6 months, that was 3 months ago.

If he's that good, give him a pro contract. Don't have to remain scholars, if good enough you can give them a pro deal at any time.
As for education, it depends what he's doing. But it won't be A levels, suspect it would be a Btec in sport. I'm pretty sure he can put that on hold while he plays football professionally.
The 6 months thing would be in line with making decisions on the second years. but again, they can be given deals at any time.
And again, if he's that good it would be a good idea to get him signed up on as long a contract as possible to fend off someone else trying to take him away.

 

[Benny and the Blades]

Looking back I think the rise of the "Academy" can be strongly linked with the decline of the first team .
A lot of the money that should have been used for team building over the last 10 yrs has been diverted into this project with the idea of saving money on transfer fees, but it has turned out to be a big loss to both the club and the suporters..
A good idea on paper but as with many of the clubs promising ideas on paper a flop in practise......

 

[BushBlade]

Looking back I think the rise of the "Academy" can be strongly linked with the decline of the first team .
A lot of the money that should have been used for team building over the last 10 yrs has been diverted into this project with the idea of saving money on transfer fees, but it has turned out to be a big loss to both the club and the suporters..
A good idea on paper but as with many of the clubs promising ideas on paper a flop in practise......

Ball park figure? I'll bet it's nowhere near what Robson and Blackwell wasted between them.

 

[Benny and the Blades]

Robson and Blackwell ?
Robson & co. may well have cost us a lot of money for their services, doubt Blackwell did ....

 

[Sean Thornton]

Robson and Blackwell ?
Robson & co. may well have cost us a lot of money for their services, doubt Blackwell did ....

What?

 

[Benny and the Blades]

Ball park figure? I'll bet it's nowhere near what Robson and Blackwell wasted between them.

I'm sorry I fail to see where this has anything to do with it? are you saying that we should have an Academy because some managers have made bad signings ?

What?

EH ?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm sorry I fail to see where this has anything to do with it? are you saying that we should have an Academy because some managers have made bad signings ?



EH ?

Blackwell didn't spend much?

 

[PokerBlade]

Brookes and Semple sound great.

I was getting concerned that we weren't going to have any youth players that definitely should be in the team but for some bizarre reasons aren't this season.

 

[albinonick]

Maybe you are right there mate . Perhaps a baptism of fire is more conducive to sorting the wheat from the chaff than wrapping them in cotton wool .

Either way though , it's a futile discussion when none of them ( Ramsdale excluded ) are anywhere near the first team .

Come on CW , I know you want to do it . Time to make men from boys !

Edit : not only Ramsdale but DCL aswell

Ramsdale will sit on the bench all season and not play first team. Crewe game would have been the perfect opportunity for him to play however that didn't happen! Just been called up to England u19's for Holland and Belgium. Young players need a chance sink or swim.

 

[larkymasher]

If he's that good, give him a pro contract. Don't have to remain scholars, if good enough you can give them a pro deal at any time.
As for education, it depends what he's doing. But it won't be A levels, suspect it would be a Btec in sport. I'm pretty sure he can put that on hold while he plays football professionally.
The 6 months thing would be in line with making decisions on the second years. but again, they can be given deals at any time.
And again, if he's that good it would be a good idea to get him signed up on as long a contract as possible to fend off someone else trying to take him away.

He has signed a 3 year pro contract. So what would you do with him now? continue to captain the 23s or send on a youth loan?

I am really interested in your views. For what its worth i agree with it all so far Grizzly

 

[Grizzly blade]

He has signed a 3 year pro contract. So what would you do with him now? continue to captain the 23s or send on a youth loan?

I am really interested in your views. For what its worth i agree with it all so far Grizzly

He has to be playing, the more the better.
That goes for kids of any age to be fair.

So, if he's not playing with us....which at his age unless he's the next Franco Baresi or whatever is unlikely...he needs to go out on loan to anywhere that will see him play every week....most likely the national league.
Experience is in my opinion the only way to learn. It's all well and good running around cones and doing drills, or playing against kids your own age when you might be stronger than most kids your age but these lads need to be pushed beyond their comfort zone consistently to improve quicker.
Not only that, it will see if they have the stomach for a fight and a test. I'm a big believer in mental strength being crucial, and stepping up from a youth game in front of a few club officials and friends/family in a academy environment to playing in front of proper fans is massive!
Even reserve football is nowhere near the real thing....in my experience that is. Yes the players might get a bollocking from the coach for the first time in reserve football...or be exposed to older pro's but it's still not competitive enough.

 

[larkymasher]

He has to be playing, the more the better.
That goes for kids of any age to be fair.

So, if he's not playing with us....which at his age unless he's the next Franco Baresi or whatever is unlikely...he needs to go out on loan to anywhere that will see him play every week....most likely the national league.
Experience is in my opinion the only way to learn. It's all well and good running around cones and doing drills, or playing against kids your own age when you might be stronger than most kids your age but these lads need to be pushed beyond their comfort zone consistently to improve quicker.
Not only that, it will see if they have the stomach for a fight and a test. I'm a big believer in mental strength being crucial, and stepping up from a youth game in front of a few club officials and friends/family in a academy environment to playing in front of proper fans is massive!
Even reserve football is nowhere near the real thing....in my experience that is. Yes the players might get a bollocking from the coach for the first time in reserve football...or be exposed to older pro's but it's still not competitive enough.

I agree fully. We hold on to them for 12 months too long when they should be out playing proper mans football in front of paying supporters.

 

[BushBlade]

I'm sorry I fail to see where this has anything to do with it? are you saying that we should have an Academy because some managers have made bad signings ?



EH ?

No. You were blaming the cost of the academy for our downfall. I'm saying you're wrong.

 

[ernie]

Interesting post.

I would love some of our lads to come through. Not seen enough of Semple and Brooks. Latter looks very small/frail but a decent footballer.



As for the thoughts on the others, DCL has been really poor in every game I have seen him play (granted a lot from the bench), Reed has gone backwards after a promising start and has been really poor in every game I have seen in the last 12 months and barely even been involved due to this (he got subbed at half time two games running back end of Clough era).

Whiteman had a decent debut but played quite a few games after that - not sure he stood out. He was neat and tidy but another that lacks pace/athletic ability and command. Sure he may get these things?

Someone alluded to his performance at Southend at right back being good....I thought he was badly shown up in this game.

I would love to have more kids coming though and on the face of it; it may seem annoying they we havent but really have any of DCL, Whiteman, Reed done enough to justify being picked. All 3 have been in and around the first team squad now for 2 years +

Not so sure on the other beneath them but if they were that good you would think regardless of the merits of Clough, Adkins, Wilder (yes, I know they have all been useless!) and coaching staff they would make themselves hard to leave out. We are in the third division and if these lads cannot make it here and at last nail down a regular place.

i have been a critic of all our managers but not sure it sticks on this one. Reed, DCL, Whiteman could have been regulars for a season or so and would they have improved our position? I think if those 3 and some others had been regulars we would be very near the bottom. Suppose we are there anyway. Not sure whether Whiteman would do much worse than Basham though as others have alluded but I dont think either (nor Reed) are good enough.

The idea of throwing a 17 year old centre back in to me would be potentially damaging to him longer term. The lad had not even played any first team football anywhere. Get him out on loan and see how he does.

When likes of Walker, Naughton, Woodhouse, Morris, Maguire came through most fans could tell withing a game or so, they looked special and really stood out even as kids. None of the recent ones have done that or even come close to it.

Wilder had DCL under his wing at Northampton he did very well for them.
In my mind Wilder as not given them ( the younger ones ) the backing and confidence they need. Again I re iterate from an earlier post Wilder doors not know how to manage and will never get the best from this team with his current style. I think he as unwittingly alienated most of the team already. Lost the dressing room?

 

[TC's Magic Boots]

We shouldn't be looking towards Wilder or managers as to why he they're not playing academy players, they're not playing them because they're not good enough. Attention should be focussed on the academy itself and why it has performed so poorly in recent years.

Good shout this. While we have had a few ex pro's come back and coach at the lower age groups, we should be looking to bring in the best coaches we can get to push them on as they go through the age groups. No disrespect to the academy staff but apart from a few, what have they ever done in football. Even the head of the academy never played at any decent level. Coaching badges can be gained by anyone, experience of the game is earned and then passed on to good decent young players.

 

[Benny and the Blades]

No. You were blaming the cost of the academy for our downfall. I'm saying you're wrong.

I think a lot of money has been wasted, and on a flawed idea.
Why on earth was all that money spent in buying and equiping the masive training ground at Shirecliff if not for the Academy ?

 

[Benny and the Blades]

A far better idea would have been to devolope Olive Grove as a training ground and share it with Sheffield club, we would still be helping to devolpe young players for the future while adding quite a few to their gate....