Wilder grateful for boards support

[Bert]

He didn't renew his contract then, but the key part of the sentence you happened to miss out was he did it without actually having a replacement lined up.

Who else did they interview when Robson got the job?

 

[Bladesway]

You agree with Barney that Murph'y transfer fee should have been ring-fenced and used solely for fees for incoming players so we just can't discuss beliefs so far apart.

No I don't, I said I understand what he put. Read my words and not your interpretation of them. You have me as some sort of Anti-McCabe loon, but all I am pointing out is that he has failed constantly and consistently yet some still appear to want to hang on his every word and are shocked people don't believe him. I actually want the man to get it right, I want us to be successful but by repeating the mistakes of the past we will just end up treading water at best.

The man consistently gives me enough ammunition and I'm afraid comments like "yeah but look at how much it has cost him" just make me think he is even more stupid and actually knows even less about running a football club than I previously did. If he isn't doing this on purpose then christ it looks even worse.

Like everyone else on here I hope we get it right this time. But we have hung numerous managers out to dry and they have been wrongly blamed for the mistakes of McCabe.


When we do get promoted I expect all the usuals to come out of the woodworkfan and say "I told you Kev was great". As I say, you pin the tail on the donkey enough times you eventually hit its arse.

 

[Bladesway]

Who else did they interview when Robson got the job?

There were a queue of hundreds to pick from. McCabe said it himself. Applications galore. If your saying Robson was his first and only plan then your aim of making McCabe look better has somewhat failed.

 

[Bladesway]

Bet youre really glad you posted that now aren't you that will teach you

Better we chat about the colour of the pigs kit or some other unrelated topic rather than something relevant to the club we all support you mean? Theres a nice thread about our third kit if the waters too hot in here.

 

[Bert]

There were a queue of hundreds to pick from. McCabe said it himself. Applications galore. If your saying Robson was his first and only plan then your aim of making McCabe look better has somewhat failed.

So who else was interviewed?

 

[Pollingtonblade]

So who else was interviewed?

I remember at the time Mcabe said he didn't want Chris Coleman cos he hadn't won a promotion to the Prem, on that logic he wouldn't have employed Alex Ferguson.

That appointment of Robson was fucking abysmal I sincerely don't think they interviewed anyone else as that fat cunt Robinson had this lined up.

 

[Worksop II]

As I say, you pin the tail on the donkey enough times you eventually hit its arse.

Would this be the reasoning behind signing more Donkeys ......................

 

[The Crab]

Says nothing = he's not being backed.

Says something = he's not being backed and is a yes man

FACT.

I think there is plenty in what Bladesway alludes to regarding what Wilder would say. It would be insanity to publicly state that you think you are getting rinsed by the board

No I don't, I said I understand what he put. Read my words and not your interpretation of them. You have me as some sort of Anti-McCabe loon, but all I am pointing out is that he has failed constantly and consistently yet some still appear to want to hang on his every word and are shocked people don't believe him. I actually want the man to get it right, I want us to be successful but by repeating the mistakes of the past we will just end up treading water at best.

The man consistently gives me enough ammunition and I'm afraid comments like "yeah but look at how much it has cost him" just make me think he is even more stupid and actually knows even less about running a football club than I previously did. If he isn't doing this on purpose then christ it looks even worse.

Like everyone else on here I hope we get it right this time. But we have hung numerous managers out to dry and they have been wrongly blamed for the mistakes of McCabe.


When we do get promoted I expect all the usuals to come out of the woodworkfan and say "I told you Kev was great". As I say, you pin the tail on the donkey enough times you eventually hit its arse.

For me, there has been a steady decline since our relegation from the Premiership. The finger of blame for me points in many directions, but unfortunately, there does seem to be one common denominator in all of this.

I have no doubt of Mr Mcabe's Blades credentials, nor doubt that he has put a lot of money in. My doubt for what it is worth, is how wisely that money has been put to use. It seems to me to be a long trail of poor decisions, interspersed with a good dollop of bad luck along the way.

During our decline, the gap between the haves and have nots has grown at pace, to the extent that we might be a "big name" in League 1, but are we still a Bona Fide "big hitter"?

We need to build something sustainable and not repeat the mistakes of the past and to do that, there might be a little more pain before the gain we all hope for kicks in.

My hope is that Wilder is the man to do it. If he can walk like he can talk, then the good signs are there. But it needs cooler heads to prevail, and none of the customary knee jerk reaction from the boardroom when we hit a bump in the road. People talk about the Bassett and Warnock eras, great eras. Lets hope we can somehow create a new one. It's about time.

 

[Bert]

I remember at the time Mcabe said he didn't want Chris Coleman cos he hadn't won a promotion to the Prem, on that logic he wouldn't have employed Alex Ferguson.

That appointment of Robson was fucking abysmal I sincerely don't think they interviewed anyone else as that fat cunt Robinson had this lined up.

Bert's memory also can't recall anyone else getting interviewed. It was McCabe's most idiotic deed ever.

 

[BushBlade]

So who else was interviewed?

Don't know. Perhaps Bert does and might tell us?

 

[BushBlade]

Don't know. Perhaps Bert does and might tell us?

Bloody Hell Bert. You answered before I'd asked. That's impressive.

 

[finlaytheblade]

No point dwelling on semantics I suppose but nobody intentionally called anybody "stupid" I'm sure. However there are obvious defintion differences in your and my use of the term 'business model' and I believe the 'business model' is part fulfillment of strategy and there is a difference. In banks the strategy and the business model can be different responsibilities as can the implementation of both with various people held responsible and some even accountable, unusual if it's the Chairman though !!!

What else can I say? You agree with Barney that Murph'y transfer fee should have been ring-fenced and used solely for fees for incoming players so we just can't discuss beliefs so far apart.

I said above we got a very good price for Maguire who has not held down a first team place at Hull in 2 years with one of those years in the Championship where you'd think he might prosper. I was reliably told Maguire quadrupled his wages when he moved and that really affects the dynamics obviously.

I also said we've chosen the wrong managers and I've said those managers have performed poorly. BTW I fully supported the appointments of both Clough and Adkins and it just goes to show it's not an easy task and it even takes a few months to realise it won't work. As you know I've always said the quality of player signings really is the key because they provide the bulk of any added value amongst the squad.

Over the years you have been critical of McCabe, almost obsessive in fact but the man has suffered huge monetary loss as a result of his managerial appointments who have failed to effectively implement the business model. He has given away half the club and said he will leave if a 'suitable buyer' can be found and who 'has the club's best long term interests at heart'. In other words he's here to stay no matter how many posts you write so that's a given unless the prince buys the other half. I'm sure he'd love to find the way out of a living nightmare though.

As for selling our best players, I've no doubt in my own mind that McCabe will not sell Calvert-Lewin above Wilder's head. If Wilder can work to budget this season without a sale then he will be authorised to do just that. If on the other hand Wilder can better spend the fee on wages for say three first teamers and recommends that approach then fair enough the lad will depart. Presumably the player will surely be insisting on a big pay rise if he has to stay and that would eat into the budget and could swing the decision process. In all those circumstances who is responsible for the sale of the player - the manager or the half owner? If on the other hand any fee helps with the running expenses of the Academy and Wilder never sees a penny, that is a different matter, but even then would Wilder want to keep Lewin if his new pay rise eats into the budget and effectively means at least one less new signing? Not a simple situation and not one that warrants the tag "McCabe's fault", it's how things are; 'facts of life' in League 1.

Once again ime agreeing with you Woody ( big brother) you put things across better than I can, 100% right in MY OPINION (ok Bladesmad)

 

[finlaytheblade]

Once again ime agreeing with you Woody ( big brother) you put things across better than I can, 100% right in MY OPINION (ok Bladesmad)

sorry that should have read bladesway

 

[Deaneandagana]

Bert's memory also can't recall anyone else getting interviewed. It was McCabe's most idiotic deed ever.

You're right it was idiotic but the crucial point here was that Robson was appointed as a figurehead to promote the proposed sale of the club - at that time the club was being hawked around the financial institutions of the US & Robson (with his Captain Marvel shirt on) was seen to be the ideal man.

Yet another McCabe master plan doomed to fail.

He is the common denominator in our decline, just one final point, should we / when we ever get out of this wretched division, the Championship is now a very very different animal to what it was 6 years ago in terms of finances & player salary expectations - is McCabe aware of this?

 

[The Crab]

You're right it was idiotic but the crucial point here was that Robson was appointed as a figurehead to promote the proposed sale of the club - at that time the club was being hawked around the financial institutions of the US & Robson (with his Captain Marvel shirt on) was seen to be the ideal man.

Yet another McCabe master plan doomed to fail.

He is the common denominator in our decline, just one final point, should we / when we ever get out of this wretched division, the Championship is now a very very different animal to what it was 6 years ago in terms of finances & player salary expectations - is McCabe aware of this?

If we're aware of this, I'm sure Kevin Mcabe must be as well. The key question for me is, how much can he and the Prince do to address that?

 

[blade too long]

I wouldn't make any sweeping assumptions about board commitment just yet.

It is still unknown as to whether there's going to be anyone flogged to fund it.

what

no wonder its hard for this club to move forward when some are absolutely desperate to keep dragging it through the mire
yes weve had some bad days
but god forbid we try and move on

some on here would moan if we bought Iniesta
hes past it him , hasnt played in league one

why would Chris Wilder lie

its stupifying how embedded some of the bile is

 

[I should coco]

some on here would moan if we bought Iniesta

Boooo!

He's past it
He hasn't played in league one
He won't fit in our team
He's too small
He's foreign and couldn't cope with a wet Tuesday night at Oldham
His wages are too high
He is rubbish at set pieces
He is Spanish and they are notorious for not training well at Shirecliffe (the paella isn't good there)
His name has too many vowels in it

Is that enough for now?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I hesitate to comment on Maguire but I suppose July 2014 is recent past and during the prince's time with us at least.

Nothing much to do with this thread today but we did get £2.5m and the lad has not held down a first team place yet. According to Wikipedia he has played just 25 games for Hull in all that time though he played 16 games for Wigan on loan.

To date it could be argued we robbed Hull at that price!! Most of us suspected he would not have the pace to survive in the Premier League but we did think he could cut it in the Championship, not as yet though.

Maguire played 33 times last season in all competitions for Hull including 22 league games (according to wiki- look at the season by season table at the bottom) . Only 7 less than Jake Wright who I am repeatedly told “captained his team to promotion”.


22 games in a promoted team suggests to me he has cut it in the championship. Plus I strongly suspect he would have played more if the main rival for his starting spot wasn’t the gaffer’s son.


Easily championship standard and would walk into probably two thirds of championship teams. Selling him pretty much killed our promotion hopes before we got going as did the Murphy sale last season.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

McCabe is not daft enough to do anything behind Wilders back . If we sell anybody it will be with Wilders blessing .

For once I think we have to give both the board and manager some credit .

They ain't ever going to please all of us but that's part of the tapestry of life.

UTB

It doesn’t need to be behind his back. If those about Wilder say Che’s gone, he’s gone. Nothing Wilder will be able to do about it. And he’ll be fully aware of that.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

The message from the outset with Wilder involved has been less funds, and a cheaper United. We haven't sold any of the 7 listed players, yet to be fair he's been able to go out and bring in those he has signed.

You can't help feeling though that maybe the board are going to want to see a few of those listed go before he gets the go ahead on to many more!

But we did release 10 and cancel the contracts of a further two and not renew the loans of a further 3 (so 15 out in total- on top of the likes of Collins, Higdon, Khan, Dimaio etc. that Adkins got rid of) to make room for the 6 he’s brought in to date.

 

[Barney]

what

no wonder its hard for this club to move forward when some are absolutely desperate to keep dragging it through the mire
yes weve had some bad days
but god forbid we try and move on

some on here would moan if we bought Iniesta
hes past it him , hasnt played in league one

why would Chris Wilder lie

its stupifying how embedded some of the bile is

Pretty simple really.

Someone (most likely DCL or Che) may be sold to cover the signings we have made.

If we do sell and he's given the money to reinvest, not a problem.

Or most likely it'll be used to fund wages and a means to not put as much in.

Wilder may be OK with that I don't know.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Barney, your old chestnut. Believe me Wilder will regard expenditure on transfer fees and wages as coming from the same pot. He has a budget and he can only spend it once. If he pays a fee then it's money he can't spend on wages and vice versa.

There seems little doubt Wilder's budget is less than the apparent £6m we spent last season. The manager's brief may well be to reduce the budget by say £1.5m and that seems reasonable to me at this level; the manager has stated he understands that the bloated wage bill has to reduce. If those numbers are roughly accurate then it might be really convenient to Wilder to get a £1.5m fee for Calvert-Lewin and that means he has managed his reduction for this year and doesn't have to make the savings on the wage bill.

That's why managers feel able to spend more on players' wages when there is no fee -the cost of the player relative to value justifies higher wages than if a big fee was part of the deal. e.g. Fletcher at Hillsborough, good player, free agent, no fee which otherwise might have been £8m? so the player demands higher wages and gets them.

Clubs our size would be stupid to get £1.5/ £2m for a player and have a mentality that it goes in the 'transfer fee pot' to be spent on fees rather than wages ( we sell to clubs who can afford big transfer fees and we can't). That's how it's been spent in the past and it's entirely valid. For example, we got a reported £1.5m for Murphy and yet we still had an apparent mushrooming £6m wage bill. The transfer fee income didn't disappear anywhere, it was spent on wages and smaller transfer fees (so was the Maguire fee).

The Murphy fee wasn’t spent on other incomings. Some of it might have funded Dean Hammond’s wages but not all of it as we didn’t bring anyone else in (except Baptiste on loan after we’d shifted a load more out). That fee just went into the black hole that is our operating losses despite Jim’s words.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Barney, your old chestnut does not make any sense.

The wage bills have not reduced since the Prince arrived in 2012, they have mushroomed under Clough and Adkins.

The owners have been injecting millions since 2012, not reducing anything. The wage bill was estimated around £6m last season from best information available and detailed in a couple of excellent threads on here and that's as high as it's been for a number of years because we had that bloated squad per Clough and then some big earners on loan as well. The owners threw money at those two managers relative to our league status. Murphy's fee was a drop in the ocean.

You are not making sense.

I disagree that they “threw money” at Adkins. They had committed to the contracts under Clough hence the huge wage bill. If you look at all of the ins and outs under Adkins, the net effect was almost certainly positive for the bank balance in terms of both wage bill and transfer fees.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

What you have posted Woody is 100% true but when closed minds read it ,who also think our chairman is a crook then I get the feeling you are wasting your time.As you say the business model has not ... worked and it's cost him and the prince millions as well has us fans having to put up with lower league football.The fans have stayed loyal through all this mess ( all credit to us for that ) and ime sure Mccabe appreciate s that.

• We are all up for it arnt we ? A big blade now in the hot seat and I for one think he will do the business.

I don’t think he’s a crook. Just an awful chairman of a football club that has presided over the worst period in our history (and from such a good position when we got promoted to the Prem). He’s also lied to the fans (Beattie Flu) and displayed unbelievable arrogance and contempt towards our support (“supporters don’t know what to look for is a manager- I do”) after making our most ridiculous appointment in living memory (Robson) and was proven to be a fool when the fans’ choice was being carried aloft by his players, champions league trophy in hand whilst Danny Wilson was still waiting for Steve Simmonsen’s penalty to come out of orbit. Yes he’s pumped a lot of money into the club but nowhere near enough to compensate the club for the cost of him stumbling from one almighty fuckup to another whilst claiming to know best.



And one last line just for pommpey something, something, something Desso Pitch.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

No point dwelling on semantics I suppose but nobody intentionally called anybody "stupid" I'm sure. However there are obvious defintion differences in your and my use of the term 'business model' and I believe the 'business model' is part fulfillment of strategy and there is a difference. In banks the strategy and the business model can be different responsibilities as can the implementation of both with various people held responsible and some even accountable, unusual if it's the Chairman though !!!

What else can I say? You agree with Barney that Murph'y transfer fee should have been ring-fenced and used solely for fees for incoming players so we just can't discuss beliefs so far apart.

I said above we got a very good price for Maguire who has not held down a first team place at Hull in 2 years with one of those years in the Championship where you'd think he might prosper. I was reliably told Maguire quadrupled his wages when he moved and that really affects the dynamics obviously.

I also said we've chosen the wrong managers and I've said those managers have performed poorly. BTW I fully supported the appointments of both Clough and Adkins and it just goes to show it's not an easy task and it even takes a few months to realise it won't work. As you know I've always said the quality of player signings really is the key because they provide the bulk of any added value amongst the squad.

Over the years you have been critical of McCabe, almost obsessive in fact but the man has suffered huge monetary loss as a result of his managerial appointments who have failed to effectively implement the business model. He has given away half the club and said he will leave if a 'suitable buyer' can be found and who 'has the club's best long term interests at heart'. In other words he's here to stay no matter how many posts you write so that's a given unless the prince buys the other half. I'm sure he'd love to find the way out of a living nightmare though.

As for selling our best players, I've no doubt in my own mind that McCabe will not sell Calvert-Lewin above Wilder's head. If Wilder can work to budget this season without a sale then he will be authorised to do just that. If on the other hand Wilder can better spend the fee on wages for say three first teamers and recommends that approach then fair enough the lad will depart. Presumably the player will surely be insisting on a big pay rise if he has to stay and that would eat into the budget and could swing the decision process. In all those circumstances who is responsible for the sale of the player - the manager or the half owner? If on the other hand any fee helps with the running expenses of the Academy and Wilder never sees a penny, that is a different matter, but even then would Wilder want to keep Lewin if his new pay rise eats into the budget and effectively means at least one less new signing? Not a simple situation and not one that warrants the tag "McCabe's fault", it's how things are; 'facts of life' in League 1.

Regarding your last paragraph. I’m surprised you see it that way as that’s not what has happened in the past with the likes of Murphy and Maguire. Instead, we have been “victims” of player power. The quotation marks are because we allow ourselves to be victims and are not nearly firm enough in these negotiations in my opinion. McCabe constantly telling anyone who will listen how powerless we are to stop it only provides further encouragement to anyone wanting to nab our players on the cheap. If we made an example of one, held them to contract etc. it COULD cause a problem of a sulking player and losing money on that player- then again it might not- said player might get his head down and crack on to earn the move he desires. But it WOULD send a message to the clubs above us and our players and their agents that we won’t roll over and have our bellies tickled every time one of your youngsters fancies a huge wage at a young age sat in PL reserve squads.


It’s worth noting that neither manager has wanted to sell the last 2 star players that were sold and Adkins did not get the benefit of the Murphy money.

 

[Barney]

I don’t think he’s a crook. Just an awful chairman of a football club that has presided over the worst period in our history (and from such a good position when we got promoted to the Prem). He’s also lied to the fans (Beattie Flu) and displayed unbelievable arrogance and contempt towards our support (“supporters don’t know what to look for is a manager- I do”) after making our most ridiculous appointment in living memory (Robson) and was proven to be a fool when the fans’ choice was being carried aloft by his players, champions league trophy in hand whilst Danny Wilson was still waiting for Steve Simmonsen’s penalty to come out of orbit. Yes he’s pumped a lot of money into the club but nowhere near enough to compensate the club for the cost of him stumbling from one almighty fuckup to another whilst claiming to know best.



And one last line just for pommpey something, something, something Desso Pitch.

1 million bucks on a Desso pitch. Bloody hell.

 

[blade too long]

arse

Pretty simple really.

Someone (most likely DCL or Che) may be sold to cover the signings we have made.

If we do sell and he's given the money to reinvest, not a problem.

If he isn't given it, then it means the board haven't "net" invested anything, or not a lot.

Wilder may be OK with that I don't know.

as usuall all these theories seem to be based around the word IF

If we sell dcl or adams
if we re invest
if wilder is happy with that

try and argue the point without the word IF

 

[The Crab]

1 million bucks on a Desso pitch. Bloody hell.

 

[blade too long]

The Murphy fee wasn’t spent on other incomings. Some of it might have funded Dean Hammond’s wages but not all of it as we didn’t bring anyone else in (except Baptiste on loan after we’d shifted a load more out). That fee just went into the black hole that is our operating losses despite Jim’s words.

actually was put in a fund for Adkins to use
its that prat that just never used it as he had no clue on who to bring in

 

[I should coco]

its that prat that just never used it as he had no clue on who to bring in

Dan Burn?