This sums SUFC up down to a tee

[Bladeinleeds]

Perhaps the facts are that our players aren't actually that good!

4mil for England international jagielka
C1m for England international Kyle walker
C500k for a 20 goal midfielder in Michael brown
Fuck all for McDonald who was arguably the best league 1 player
Million quid for Blackman who when for 5 times that a year or so later
2 couple of mill for Maguire who is an outstanding defender and l1 team of the year three times in a row.
1.5m for Che when roofe from league 2 went for double that and only scored a couple more goals and arguable has less potential

None of these are at the top end of what teams should be playing to attract these assets in my view. We need to stand firm when clubs come knocking and not bend over

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Clough fell out with who?

He binned a player that is now playing non league level in Canada.
He held back egos like Adams and McNulty to try and keep them in check.
Other than that?

We had Collins out on loan, would have done better than Alcock at Cb in the play offs

We signed that prick in the summer who never even played for us who was a centre back - went to donny

He binned off Doyle too.

I'm sure there are others - he showed he wasn't capable of man management at all

 

[Barney]

Well maybe like CW, they don't think the valuations required are realistic? You've actually agreed with me without meaning to do so

No, Danny suggested that we should have put a £3m price tag on Adams to deter interest in him.

Other clubs have put high prices on their players for this very reason, as CW has found out.

So why didn't we do the same with Adams? That was his point.

 

[Bladesince59]

Lets get one thing straight. If everyone is paying over the odds and inflated prices because there are no bargains anymore, we are NOT paying over the odds. We are paying the going rate.

Problem is we aren't for players who could make a difference.

 

[Sean Thornton]

No, Danny suggested that we should have put a £3m price tag on Adams to deter interest in him.

Other clubs have put high prices on their players for this very reason, as CW has found out.

So why didn't we do the same with Adams? That was his point.

I replied to you, and you said

"Why haven't other clubs offered the higher amounts we have been quoted for players we were interested in?"

I'm not going to get into another debate where you chop and change what's been said and then watch while you make up a definition that no ones ever heard of before to try and convince everyone you are right.

Danny said Che was worth a valuation of £3m. I asked why no one had bid more than the money Brum paid if that was the case.

 

[Barney]

Danny said Che was worth a valuation of £3m. I asked why no one had bid more than the money Brum paid if that was the case.

Exactly. Do you think the club wanting £1.5m for the player we wanted believe he is truly worth that much, or are they inflating the value to deter interest?

 

[sheffielder]

There is something deeper going on. We are getting linked with players that we could afford

Morsy fee agree with Scunthorpe was 400k
Lavery probably wouldn't cost anything over 100k taking the years against how many games he has played for the pigs.
McFadzean was a club transfer record for Burton, however only in the region of 300k. Yes I know Fat lad said he wouldn't sell to us.

Now all over a sudden we get £1.5m after Ilkesstons sell on and Brayford's wages and we're getting linked with players we have no chance of getting and also not willing to pay above market rates for players that are IN their teams first 11. Of course these clubs are going to sell for market rates Chris! In what world do you live in. Also if I was chairman and you came to me wanting to blow your load on players at 30 years old such as Webster and Morgan I would sack you on the spot.

In the meantime we could have promising youngsters in training all week from Premierleague clubs using the Barnsley model.. but no, because the way we are acting I wouldn't let any youngster come to us either.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Exactly. Do you think the club wanting £1.5m for the player we wanted believe he is truly worth that much, or are they inflating the value to deter interest?

I have no idea to be frank. I don't even know which player we bid that for.

 

[Bladesince59]

For someone who is so successful running his global property empire, McCabe is clearly no fool. The club is being run along his business model. It doesn't involve getting class, young players or getting us promoted BUT it is his business model and the model which, he must calculate, gives him the best percentage returns.

My business model is to take a leaf out of his book and cut my expenditure by reducing my £100 round trips to BDTBL.

UTB

 

[Maidenhead]

So you want us to overpay for players then ? I mean it is not as if we haven.t spent large chunks of money over the last few years especially bearing in mind it is our sixth year in this division

I have many issues with our Board in terms of decision making but over the last 2-3 years but I find it difficult to criticise them for not backing managers enough to get us out of this division

As Wilder specifically states in the interview.

Sounds dedicated like an honest appraisal of our present situation to me.

Must admit that I'm struggling get to understand why so many people are kicking off over it.

Said nothing new, unreasonable or controversial that I could hear.

Manager has a budget, knows his budget and is happy to work with his budget without taking the liberties that some of his well backed predecessors did.

Actually sounds like a proper business plan, we just need the owners to keep their nerve for a couple of seasons now.

 

[bladesmanluke]

It's shocking and embarrassing. Absolutely appalling from the club. We sell Che for a piss poor £1.7m and then kick and scream when other clubs in the league want about the same for poorer players.

It's the little Sheffielder attitude surrounding the club and much of the fan base that is killing us. The type that shop at Crystal Peaks and think £1.7m is a lot of money for a 20 year old English striker with bags of potential and are then surprised to find it's nowhere near enough to strengthen.

 

[BushBlade]

We had Collins out on loan, would have done better than Alcock at Cb in the play offs

We signed that prick in the summer who never even played for us who was a centre back - went to donny

He binned off Doyle too.

I'm sure there are others - he showed he wasn't capable of man management at all

Although the number of former players that were desperate to play for him suggests quite the opposite.

It's simple Theory X and Theory Y management; some can be left to get on with it and guided when necessary, others need a kick up the arse.
If they need a kick up the arse and then resent it when they get one, bin them.

 

[Maidenhead]

It's shocking and embarrassing. Absolutely appalling from the club. We sell Che for a piss poor £1.7m and then kick and scream when other clubs in the league want about the same for poorer players.

It's the little Sheffielder attitude surrounding the club and much of the fan base that is killing us. The type that shop at Crystal Peaks and think £1.7m is a lot of money for a 20 year old English striker with bags of potential and are then surprised to find it's nowhere near enough to strengthen.

How many 3rd division substitutes have changed hands for more than £1.7m this summer?

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Although the number of former players that were desperate to play for him suggests quite the opposite.

It's simple Theory X and Theory Y management; some can be left to get on with it and guided when necessary, others need a kick up the arse.
If they need a kick up the arse and then resent it when they get one, bin them.

Surely you need to tailor your approach tho.

I know warnock fell out with players occasioanlly but he was great at getting players back on track, and wouldn't hold grudges. He knew if they needed a kick up the arse or an arm round their shoulder

With clough it was his way or the highway and no second chances.

Clough had already fallen out with a long serving cb at burton and was apparently annoyed at Duffy driving from liverpool which was why he didn't sign for them

 

[LenTednTony]

Aren't we investing at the moment ? It is just the decision making at all levels that is awful

I don't think we are investing. We are re investing SOME of the monies that have been recouped. Because it is a lesser amount, they are lesser quality players and Mccabe is banking on Wilder to work miracles. I hope he can but normally, unless you do work on what you buy, you get what you pay for.

 

[LenTednTony]

Problem is we aren't for players who could make a difference.

It seems that way, Bill, but we are paying the going rate for the players that are coming in. Its just that they all need work and allowing time to gel, before we will see any improvement. You will always see a dip before an improvement. It happens in sport, sales, administration etc., etc. When you buy quality (and I would put Fleck in this bracket) is when you get an immediate impact.

 

[bartman]

4mil for England international jagielka
C1m for England international Kyle walker
C500k for a 20 goal midfielder in Michael brown
Fuck all for McDonald who was arguably the best league 1 player
Million quid for Blackman who when for 5 times that a year or so later
2 couple of mill for Maguire who is an outstanding defender and l1 team of the year three times in a row.
1.5m for Che when roofe from league 2 went for double that and only scored a couple more goals and arguable has less potential

None of these are at the top end of what teams should be playing to attract these assets in my view. We need to stand firm when clubs come knocking and not bend over

The figure for Jags was in his contract and was triggered when we got relegated. He wouldn't have signed otherwise and if Warnock had done his job the clause wouldn't have been triggered...he also didn't have any England caps at that stage (or was it just one in a friendly somewhere abroad ?)

£500k Brown,6 months left on his contract,wouldn't sign another. He had one glory season with us. Would have gone for nothing at the end of the seasons and his form was distinctly average up to when he was sold that season. We should have tied him up the season before but again the mis management of the club is apparant

Clause in McDonald's contract. He was out of contract and wouldn't sign otherwise then up pops a parachute money club who found out about the clause. To be fair I felt we should have tried harder to keep Lee Williamson rather than McDonald at the time as he was a far better player and scored goals

When did Blackman get sold for £5million ? He was sold 3 years later and since he left us he has scored 18 goals in 126 games

£2million for a L1 centre half who has hardly played since looks about right. HOWEVER I think this was badly mis managed and we should have bust a gut to make him stay(the money paid the Brayford should have gone to tie up Maguire)

Roofe scored 18 from 40 games for Oxford, Adams scored 11 from 47 games for us. £1.7 million for a L1 sub for me was a no brainer. I hope the lad does well but I think we got substantially more than what he was worth

 

[BushBlade]

Surely you need to tailor your approach tho.

I know warnock fell out with players occasioanlly but he was great at getting players back on track, and wouldn't hold grudges. He knew if they needed a kick up the arse or an arm round their shoulder

With clough it was his way or the highway and no second chances.

Clough had already fallen out with a long serving cb at burton and was apparently annoyed at Duffy driving from liverpool which was why he didn't sign for them

Warnock bombed quite a lot of players out quite quietly. As for Harry, imagine if Wilder said if a player didn't pull his finger out he'd be back on the fruit and veg stall where he found him.

But I see your point and it's something I had raised concerns about before Wilder came. You can't treat our millionaire players like you would non-leaguers. Saying that, well known mard-arse Coutts seems to be responding -maybe he's playing for a move, I don't know.

 

[Bladesince59]

The figure for Jags was in his contract and was triggered when we got relegated. He wouldn't have signed otherwise and if Warnock had done his job the clause wouldn't have been triggered...he also didn't have any England caps at that stage (or was it just one in a friendly somewhere abroad ?)

£500k Brown,6 months left on his contract,wouldn't sign another. He had one glory season with us. Would have gone for nothing at the end of the seasons and his form was distinctly average up to when he was sold that season. We should have tied him up the season before but again the mis management of the club is apparant

Clause in McDonald's contract. He was out of contract and wouldn't sign otherwise then up pops a parachute money club who found out about the clause. To be fair I felt we should have tried harder to keep Lee Williamson rather than McDonald at the time as he was a far better player and scored goals

When did Blackman get sold for £5million ? He was sold 3 years later and since he left us he has scored 18 goals in 126 games

£2million for a L1 centre half who has hardly played since looks about right. HOWEVER I think this was badly mis managed and we should have bust a gut to make him stay(the money paid the Brayford should have gone to tie up Maguire)

Roofe scored 18 from 40 games for Oxford, Adams scored 11 from 47 games for us. £1.7 million for a L1 sub for me was a no brainer. I hope the lad does well but I think we got substantially more than what he was worth

Me too. I would have thought Che was/is £1m tops.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

The figure for Jags was in his contract and was triggered when we got relegated. He wouldn't have signed otherwise and if Warnock had done his job the clause wouldn't have been triggered...he also didn't have any England caps at that stage (or was it just one in a friendly somewhere abroad ?)

£500k Brown,6 months left on his contract,wouldn't sign another. He had one glory season with us. Would have gone for nothing at the end of the seasons and his form was distinctly average up to when he was sold that season. We should have tied him up the season before but again the mis management of the club is apparant

Clause in McDonald's contract. He was out of contract and wouldn't sign otherwise then up pops a parachute money club who found out about the clause. To be fair I felt we should have tried harder to keep Lee Williamson rather than McDonald at the time as he was a far better player and scored goals

When did Blackman get sold for £5million ? He was sold 3 years later and since he left us he has scored 18 goals in 126 games

£2million for a L1 centre half who has hardly played since looks about right. HOWEVER I think this was badly mis managed and we should have bust a gut to make him stay(the money paid the Brayford should have gone to tie up Maguire)

Roofe scored 18 from 40 games for Oxford, Adams scored 11 from 47 games for us. £1.7 million for a L1 sub for me was a no brainer. I hope the lad does well but I think we got substantially more than what he was worth

I take the points on board but 'clause in the contract' is our own fault for poor negotiation.

It stinks to me of little old United being blinded for any 7 figure big. It's not the 90s any more and that's par for average players now. We have never been strong enough with keepin players.

I don't believe jags wouldn't have signed in the prem if that clause was 7mil? 8mils? It's our fault for agreeing to such a low ball offer. or McDonald wouldn't have agreed to a higher clause one for an extra couple of grand a week.

And with Adams he was raw but has a very good scoring record for a young player - large chunk of those goals were as sub too. We haven't had anyone with the same potential since the kyles imo.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Don't need to overpay - just pay the going rate like every other fucking club.

We are such a tin pot unambitious club - it's a disgrace.

When we slip into L2 some on here will still be praising McCabe for not overpaying

That's not what he's saying. He's saying we're being quoted ridiculous prices for players. And it's probably true. Was speaking to a scout for a club in the south/south-west and he said a lot of clubs add 25-50% to a fee if we enquire. Whether that's down to us being mugs in the transfer market prior to this season, or that the perception is still out there that we are big spenders at this level he didn't elaborate. So, player X is subject to a query by Scunthorpe, £200k; Sheffield United enquire about same player £300k, please.

There is no going rate. There's what clubs can get and what clubs are willing to pay. Others still think we should pay more than everyone else.

 

[bladesmanluke]

How many 3rd division substitutes have changed hands for more than £1.7m this summer?

How many 20 (19 at the end of last season) year old English strikers have played as many games and scored as many goals in the 3rd division as Che had?

3rd division subsitute now plying his trade and scoring goals in the division above. Funny that

 

[blade too long]

How many 20 (19 at the end of last season) year old English strikers have played as many games and scored as many goals in the 3rd division as Che had?

3rd division subsitute now plying his trade and scoring goals in the division above. Funny that

he scored ,but they lost, has a familiar ring

 

[CaptainMorgans]

That's not what he's saying. He's saying we're being quoted ridiculous prices for players. And it's probably true. Was speaking to a scout for a club in the south/south-west and he said a lot of clubs add 25-50% to a fee if we enquire. Whether that's down to us being mugs in the transfer market prior to this season, or that the perception is still out there that we are big spenders at this level he didn't elaborate. So, player X is subject to a query by Scunthorpe, £200k; Sheffield United enquire about same player £300k, please.

There is no going rate. There's what clubs can get and what clubs are willing to pay. Others still think we should pay more than everyone else.

I just find it hard to believe, these clubs are seemingly willing to sell to one club for 200k but only to us at 300k. If they're willing to sell at 200k, then they're willing to sell at 200k, just a case of negotiating.

I don't remember us ever chucking massive fees out for players, for us to have gotten this reputation. However, we do like to chuck silly money at players in terms of contract length, salaries, "special clauses" etc, so I can see why agents might try their luck on a bit.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I just find it hard to believe, these clubs are seemingly willing to sell to one club for 200k but only to us at 300k. If they're willing to sell at 200k, then they're willing to sell at 200k, just a case of negotiating.

I don't remember us ever chucking massive fees out for players, for us to have gotten this reputation. However, we do like to chuck silly money at players in terms of contract length, salaries, "special clauses" etc, so I can see why agents might try their luck on a bit.

Agents do more than clubs, but they all think we're still a soft touch. Might take a bit for the penny to drop.

 

[Neil smith]

End of the day if the players value changes to whom the bidder is then that's the case we find ourselves in unfortunately ... Not read all the comments on this issue having not enough time ... If who ever price goes up 100 k cos it's us then fook it pay it we must get out of this awful league .... Every other team manages to get the players they req and they also play at a higher level than us ....

 

[alcoblade]

Yes. And it depends on what you mean by 'overpay'. Currently I'd say we need at least £10m spending on our midfield and £8m on the back four. And yes, I understand, that money isn't sat in the tea caddy in the pantry with a rubber band round it. It needs finding. Plus their wages.

But that is the reality of us going where we should be going.



How much have we spent? Does anyone know? I ask this all the time, yet there's this massive assumption Cluff jizzed millions up the wall. I wish people would stop making these assumptions. If McCabe had given Clough what he wanted, we wouldn't have shipped five goals at Swindon and the two at home. We'd have been playing with decent centre backs - including Maguire, who we flogged. We'd be up there in the Championship now.



Rubbish. The managers have changed. you'd thik at least one of them would have had some sort of effect. We have sold players and the managers have been on zero cash to bring players in in perspective to the talent going out. One day, people will stop blaming those blameless and rescourceless for our failings and aim their criticism in the right direction.

pommpey

Regarding the Clough jizzing money up the wall bit;

He signed 20+ players and we've binned, or are in the process of binning, the entire lot.

They've all gone on to worse things, other than Brayford who has clearly cost us a fortune, done nothing, and needed an idiot to take him off our hands.

It's pretty clear that Clough jizzed money up the wall.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

he scored ,but they lost, has a familiar ring

He's good but his team is shite?

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

Regarding the Clough jizzing money up the wall bit;

He signed 20+ players and we've binned, or are in the process of binning, the entire lot.

They've all gone on to worse things, other than Brayford who has clearly cost us a fortune, done nothing, and needed an idiot to take him off our hands.

It's pretty clear that Clough jizzed money up the wall.

UTB

Which has been recouped in one swoop with the sale of Adams.

Clough made mistakes. No doubt.

But firing him and hiring Adkins was a disaster.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Which has been recouped in one swoop with the sale of Adams.

Clough made mistakes. No doubt.

But firing him and hiring Adkins was a disaster.

UTB

All those signings were recouped by the sale of Adams? Really......?

We paid the same out for Brayford alone, then paid him well over £500,000 a year. We're still left with lots of players he signed but we don't want. Coutts, Wallace, cringe.

An utter disaster, which is not in any way mitigated by subsequent events.


UTB