Is the Prince's luck running out?

[Mouth of the South]

I'd say it's quite rare that a club allows almost every single player's contract to all run out at the same time. And instances of that working out well are even more rare.

If it's by design, it certainly isn't designed to put the football club in a better position.

Berge, Ndiaye aside, I would expect the club to have options on the majority of other contracts expiring next summer, including Jebbison.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

 

[Bladeinleeds]

It’s a lot easier to prioritise contracts when you don’t have a net spend of over 100m

Even if we go down we will be a hell of a lot better off without long term commitments to aging players. If we are more careful with the funds we do have.

Think we have to priorise youth and permanent signings this time round to set us up longer term.

 

[Stegosaurus]

Hi Stegosaurus here

The contract situation with key players running out and likely leaving for nix nought nothing soon, not to mention our lack of cash and inability to bring any fresh blood in is quite concerning.

We could find ourselves in dire straits soon.

 

[WF10BLADE]

Hi Stegosaurus here

The contract situation with key players running out and likely leaving for nix nought nothing soon, not to mention our lack of cash and inability to bring any fresh blood in is quite concerning.

We could find ourselves in dire straits soon.

Is Mark Knopfler aware of this development?

 

[nopigfansintown]

The attitudes to the Prince are skewed by his timing when acquiring the club. He was aided massively by Prem money and taking over a club on the up more generally. The legacy of that is still helping us. Despite that there are red warning lights everywhere if you care to see them. Comparisons with the McCabe that left United are pointless as we were being offloaded by him anyway.

 

[FredZeppelin]

Paid over 3 years probably end of season/next season first payment is made i think

It's paid in installments across the season (the first being paid in July I think), hence why so many clubs (including Utd) borrow from banks such as MaQuarie against guaranteed income to play opex and fund transactions.

I was lucky enough to sit and have a beer with (Sir) Dave Richards and his wife a few weeks ago. He seemed like a really nice, genuine bloke who, somewhat naively got mixed up in some of the Wednesday/FA shenanigans he is associated with.

He told me a lot of things about what was going on at Wednesday in the DiCanio/Carboni days and also how some of the money is distributed to Premier League clubs each year. He was very complimentary about the the Blades and described us as a "smashing club". He was also full of praise for Hecky for the job he had done, although he did say that in his opinion that PH as "almost too nice to be a top manager".

He told me that a cheque for £100million is handed over to a new club before the season even starts and that the clubs try to invest this to maximise its value ("write it up or down", or something like that which I didn't understand). I don't know what impact this will have on our finances this season but this isn't the line we, as fans, are fed or assume.

Just thought I'd throw that in there. Let's face it, if he says that that's how it happens, then surely its got to be right given his history and involvement with the FA.

UTB

 

[PaulHalfway]

PA has no money left to invest, he gambled on keeping a big squad together in January to get promoted, it paid off fortunately
If we hadn’t got promoted we would be in a right old mess for next season, I dread to think
At least the next 3 years we have some decent income, should be able to stabilise the club financially but obviously with a very limited budget for next season, will be very difficult to stay up obviously with the high quality of the PL.

 

[Tickhill Blade]

I was lucky enough to sit and have a beer with (Sir) Dave Richards and his wife a few weeks ago. He seemed like a really nice, genuine bloke who, somewhat naively got mixed up in some of the Wednesday/FA shenanigans he is associated with.

Is this the same Dave Richards? The one who refused to put up a memorial at Hillsborough for over a decade, whose own firm went bust putting 100+ people out of work, who jumped ship before Wednesday went down to get a cushy highly paid job at the premier league championed by Ken Bates of all people?

I always wondered what his knighthood was for, services to sport. Other than lumbering Wednesday with the huge contracts for Sibon, De Bilde etc when they went down from which they've never recovered, I'm not sure what else he's done for sport exactly?

 

[FredZeppelin]

Is this the same Dave Richards? The one who refused to put up a memorial at Hillsborough for over a decade, whose own firm went bust putting 100+ people out of work, who jumped ship before Wednesday went down to get a cushy highly paid job at the premier league championed by Ken Bates of all people?

I always wondered what his knighthood was for, services to sport. Other than lumbering Wednesday with the huge contracts for Sibon, De Bilde etc when they went down from which they've never recovered, I'm not sure what else he's done for sport exactly?

It is.

I'm not defending or criticising anything he's done in his life, pal. You obviously know a lot more about him than me. I just said that he seemed like a genuinely nice bloke and quoted some of the things he told me. I try to take all folk as I find them and he seemed like a very interesting man with a lot of stories to tell. He seemed very keen to get hjs own side of things across but I was genuinely struck by some of the naivety he displayed in some of the decisions he took and situations he let himself get dragged into. Maybe a bit of ego was involved too.

I guess there's always two sides to every story, isn't there? I know I've personally been very misunderstood in my sporting life on many occasions, especially in leadership roles, even though I could be a bit of a cunt at times! That's just what happens in a highly competitive environment.

He was also quite complimentary about Kevin McCabe during his time at United, too.

I'm not taking sides or anything, just referring to how the Prem money is distributed as he told me in line with the forum conversation.

utb

 

[eastsussexblade]

I've always been open to Prince Abdullah. He comes over as a nice guy and I've been supportive of a number of his decisions.

I do think the spectre of McCabe's latter period has somewhat tainted our view at times though.

Had we gone down under KM, you do feel McCabe's immediate approach would be to cut our cloth. We would have attempted to offload assets and reinvested a small portion.

It seems PA's default is to do nothing. Nothing rash at least. But he's turned kicking the can down the road into an art form!

Every window we look back on, we can provide some justification to actions or there in lack of and often keeping hold of what you have is then seen as the height of ambition. But in fact it's also been an inability to retain much long term focus beyond the next 12 months.

In this regard it does feel he's been playing Russian roulette with the club's future and I'd also suggest his own personal limited wealth.

We didn't do anything in the winter window of January 2021. That made sense it would have been good money after bad.

Summer 2021, relegation confirmed and we prepared for a mass exodus. Only Ramsdale left , we kept Berge, or did we simply not receive a reasonable offer? We then signed last minute, all a bit short for what Slav wanted. Everything was borrowed and nothing was bought.

Winter 2022 came and went with Davis for a nominal fee and Uremovic and Goode arriving on loan, offset by Burke, Mousset, Freeman, Verrips and Olsen heading out. Apart from Davis, nothing permanent again.

The gamble failed on penalties but contracts went a year further on and few players got new extensions.

Summer 2022 and much to everyone's surprised we paid around 4m to bring in Ahmedhodžić. Outside of this, it was zero perms, all loans, offset by permanent departures of Mousset, Freeman et al. Still no Berge takers.

Winter 2023 and we lost Khadra and gave no support to the management other than not selling Berge or Ndiaye.

Despite debilitating injuries at times we went up. God knows what a mess it would have looked had we not. Lower parachute payments, players on high wages we couldn't shift.

Fortunately, that can got kicked down the road thanks to Hecky.

But it's never kicked far. He's probably on the precipice between being declared a good owner, who kept talent and then sold to someone to kick is on and an owner who built very little only to let a huge swathe of the squad leave for nothing leaving us with a complete rebuild on our hands.

I look at Chateauroux and our situation could have been mirroring their own had we not gone up, or if we don't get taken over and/or adopt a strategy that looks beyond 12 months. They just let 17 players walk and need to show around €4.5m is there to settle the season just gone and guarantee the coming season and remain pro. How can an owner allow such dereliction and lack of governance?

I know footballers are money motivated and it is a short career, but a club now at the top table shouldn't be looking at talent like Jebbo, Osula, Ndiaye etc and seeing all of them out of contract in 12 months. It's simply awful planning.

It wouldn't have killed us to get a small uptick to the first two to add years onto their deals. Likewise, I know Ndiaye's reps have been hard to deal with, but when he was clicking with Gibbs-White was the time to tie him down for longer. We seemed.tl be happy to keep him on low money and now we are looking at a talent leaving for nothing when he could have been worth 30m or so. I'd far rather not have Fleck and/or Ozzy for 12 months and tie up the younger players if that is the choice.

Genuinely concerned that the Prince has gambled for a season or two and has been saved by Hecky, but that without someone else stepping in and prioritising the contracts, even the self-sufficient model fails when your assets walk for zero.

A Fantastic appraisal J ! I had forgotten most of this. Cheers pal x

 

[St Annington]

The revenue gained by charging higher ticket prices is negligible, especially now we are in the Prem. £380 in a cost of living crisis is not cheap, though it is relatively cheap compared to other teams. I couldn't afford to pay much more.

I don't think it's negligible to a club like United. I don't know the figures, but, I think ST revenue is about £8M. The Prince could justifiably increase prices by 50% which would bring in an extra £4M a year before a ball is even kicked. I realise that some people would struggle with a rise in prices, but ST demand currently outstrips supply. £4M every season to United is the difference between buying an extra player or having to sell someone. I'm not advocating for a price rise, but as per my original post, it's something that the Prince deserves some credit for.

 

[robbiez666]

When the transfer window shuts, the club is in a position to start offering deals until summer 2026 on deals that will be better than almost any Championship club can offer. That means next summer will not be the shit show everyone is suggesting. That is regardless of ownership and is completely down to EPL TV money.

In the absence of a serious buyer PA could go another 3 years till the cash runs out again

I'm not sure why you think this. It certainly isn't the case.

 

[robbiez666]

And it's not just the Prince's luck that would run out. Our luck would run out. And if we go down without having more than two players on contracts our lucky could very much run out.

 

[Davalon]

If McCabe had retained sole ownership (I'm talking the Prince never being on-board not if he'd have won the court case) then we wouldn't be back in the PL. And that's a Fallowfield Fact!

Whether he would have sold to ALK who knows.

I can't complain too much about the current situation as my mantra for a lot of last season was get up and use the money to restructure for the coming years in the knowledge we couldn't afford to buy players to stay up,without investment.

The question as always is why we never find credible new ownership. More than one reason but answers on a postcard.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Good to see the usual FTSE 100 CEO’s are out telling it how it should be. Again.

I see the new buzz line is the L word, replacing the A word.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I've always been open to Prince Abdullah. He comes over as a nice guy and I've been supportive of a number of his decisions.

I do think the spectre of McCabe's latter period has somewhat tainted our view at times though.

Had we gone down under KM, you do feel McCabe's immediate approach would be to cut our cloth. We would have attempted to offload assets and reinvested a small portion.

It seems PA's default is to do nothing. Nothing rash at least. But he's turned kicking the can down the road into an art form!

Every window we look back on, we can provide some justification to actions or there in lack of and often keeping hold of what you have is then seen as the height of ambition. But in fact it's also been an inability to retain much long term focus beyond the next 12 months.

In this regard it does feel he's been playing Russian roulette with the club's future and I'd also suggest his own personal limited wealth.

We didn't do anything in the winter window of January 2021. That made sense it would have been good money after bad.

Summer 2021, relegation confirmed and we prepared for a mass exodus. Only Ramsdale left , we kept Berge, or did we simply not receive a reasonable offer? We then signed last minute, all a bit short for what Slav wanted. Everything was borrowed and nothing was bought.

Winter 2022 came and went with Davis for a nominal fee and Uremovic and Goode arriving on loan, offset by Burke, Mousset, Freeman, Verrips and Olsen heading out. Apart from Davis, nothing permanent again.

The gamble failed on penalties but contracts went a year further on and few players got new extensions.

Summer 2022 and much to everyone's surprised we paid around 4m to bring in Ahmedhodžić. Outside of this, it was zero perms, all loans, offset by permanent departures of Mousset, Freeman et al. Still no Berge takers.

Winter 2023 and we lost Khadra and gave no support to the management other than not selling Berge or Ndiaye.

Despite debilitating injuries at times we went up. God knows what a mess it would have looked had we not. Lower parachute payments, players on high wages we couldn't shift.

Fortunately, that can got kicked down the road thanks to Hecky.

But it's never kicked far. He's probably on the precipice between being declared a good owner, who kept talent and then sold to someone to kick is on and an owner who built very little only to let a huge swathe of the squad leave for nothing leaving us with a complete rebuild on our hands.

I look at Chateauroux and our situation could have been mirroring their own had we not gone up, or if we don't get taken over and/or adopt a strategy that looks beyond 12 months. They just let 17 players walk and need to show around €4.5m is there to settle the season just gone and guarantee the coming season and remain pro. How can an owner allow such dereliction and lack of governance?

I know footballers are money motivated and it is a short career, but a club now at the top table shouldn't be looking at talent like Jebbo, Osula, Ndiaye etc and seeing all of them out of contract in 12 months. It's simply awful planning.

It wouldn't have killed us to get a small uptick to the first two to add years onto their deals. Likewise, I know Ndiaye's reps have been hard to deal with, but when he was clicking with Gibbs-White was the time to tie him down for longer. We seemed.tl be happy to keep him on low money and now we are looking at a talent leaving for nothing when he could have been worth 30m or so. I'd far rather not have Fleck and/or Ozzy for 12 months and tie up the younger players if that is the choice.

Genuinely concerned that the Prince has gambled for a season or two and has been saved by Hecky, but that without someone else stepping in and prioritising the contracts, even the self-sufficient model fails when your assets walk for zero.

Have you considered how lucky Hecky was when he bowed to fan pressure and started playing the City lads? You know, when we started playing well.

 

[Sheffsteel]

You also have to give the Prince credit for season ticket prices as well, we all point and laugh at our neighbours across the city, but the reality is that at £380 for my season ticket and £80 for my daughter the club are basically subsidising us when I could afford to pay more. Feeling smug about how cheap it is to watch the Blades is actually hampering the club in terms of revenue.

This season their early bird season ticket renew prices are similar to our early bird renewal prices.

Their Kop prices were less than £15 more than ours ( our Kop price was £380.50 + £2 booking fee for each person booking fee whereas it was £395 at Hillsboro)
Our south stand prices (£490.50) are higher than their North stand prices (£485)
but their South stand (highest price of £535) is higher than our South stand priced at £490.50.

The controversy at S6 isn't the early bird prices, anyone who instantly renews pays similar to us.
However there's a time based blackmail process going on a S6, if you don't renew by mid Jan, then all the ST went up about £20
then if you didn't renew by the end of Jan then the prices went up another £20, then if not reviewed by mid Feb all the prices went up another £20.

New season ticket holders are charged such a high premium that current seasons ticket holders are forced to renew because it's such a massive bargain in comparison. Altho in fairness to Chancer....think he spoke several years ago how important season tickets sales are because it allows the club to know its budget asap so they can plan transfers for the following season. Think he said he wanted most of the ground filled by season ticket holders and he will try to treat them fairly regards pricing.

As I said it's like blackmail......if you want a good/ cheap price at S6, then you needs to renew your season ticket just after Christmas.

However our pay on the day prices last season were one of the highest in the EFL last season, about £2 a match more than at Hillsboro.
That's our form of blackmail to the fans.....buy a season ticket otherwise it works out expensive attending matches at Bramall Lane.

 

[blade67]

I'm not sure why you think this. It certainly isn't the case.

Thanks for this fact laden post.

The basis for my post is that we have a guaranteed income of circa £200m over the next 3 seasons compared to £60m for a team not in the EPL next year.

Please provide a reasonable explanation of why I'm wrong

 

[Sean Thornton]

This season their early bird season ticket renew prices are similar to our early bird renewal prices.

Their Kop prices were less than £15 more than ours ( our Kop price was £380.50 + £2 booking fee for each person booking fee whereas it was £395 at Hillsboro)
Our south stand prices (£490.50) are higher than their North stand prices (£485)
but their South stand (highest price of £535) is higher than our South stand priced at £490.50.

The controversy at S6 isn't the early bird prices, anyone who instantly renews pays similar to us.
However there's a time based blackmail process going on a S6, if you don't renew by mid Jan, then all the ST went up about £20
then if you didn't renew by the end of Jan then the prices went up another £20, then if not reviewed by mid Feb all the prices went up another £20.

New season ticket holders are charged such a high premium that current seasons ticket holders are forced to renew because it's such a massive bargain in comparison. Altho in fairness to Chancer....think he spoke several years ago how important season tickets sales are because it allows the club to know its budget asap so they can plan transfers for the following season. Think he said he wanted most of the ground filled by season ticket holders and he will try to treat them fairly regards pricing.

As I said it's like blackmail......if you want a good/ cheap price at S6, then you needs to renew your season ticket just after Christmas.

However our pay on the day prices last season were one of the highest in the EFL last season, about £2 a match more than at Hillsboro.
That's our form of blackmail to the fans.....buy a season ticket otherwise it works out expensive attending matches at Bramall Lane.

Because of the restriction on the number of season tickets we can sell, it’s hardly blackmail. The people who really suffer are those who never miss a home game and have to pay high prices. I have the utmost sympathy for them and not so much for the one offs.

And re Early Bird at S6, we got stick because of the semi final or ST choice some had to make. Didn’t you have to renew around Christmas to be cheaper than us?
Do they give the concession at 60 as we have done for some time?

 

[Champagneblade]

Have you considered how lucky Hecky was when he bowed to fan pressure and started playing the City lads? You know, when we started playing well.

Yes, that was a pivotal point in the season, I’d tend to agree.

It was a worry that the clubs future was on a knife-edge. Hopefully getting promoted is the sliding doors moment and we can kick on.

 

[cooperblade]

Have you considered how lucky Hecky was when he bowed to fan pressure and started playing the City lads? You know, when we started playing well

You don't genuinely believe that Hecky bowed to fan pressure with that decision surely?

First, he wouldn't and second, there wasn't any.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I'm not sure why you think this. It certainly isn't the case.

No reason why the club can't negotiate contracts with players during the season.Cant be a coincidence so many are on the last year with some on there years option.
Plenty of decisions to be made during the season with most players who we will want to keep, and that's key probably to where we are.Relegation likely ! Against staying up ,all about money as always.

 

[robbiez666]

No reason why the club can't negotiate contracts with players during the season.Cant be a coincidence so many are on the last year with some on there years option.
Plenty of decisions to be made during the season with most players who we will want to keep, and that's key probably to where we are.Relegation likely ! Against staying up ,all about money as always.

I was responding to a post saying we could offer deals to 2026 which are better than any in the Championship, which obviously isn't the case in the current situation.

 

[Silent Blade]

You don't genuinely believe that Hecky bowed to fan pressure with that decision surely?

First, he wouldn't and second, there wasn't any.

Glad to hear this, bowing to fan pressure over team selection is a poor and weak thing to do.

 

[blade67]

I was responding to a post saying we could offer deals to 2026 which are better than any in the Championship, which obviously isn't the case in the current situation.

No you weren't.

You were responding to my post that said we could off deals until 2026, "that will be better than almost any Championship club can offer"

The almost being pretty key. It's likely that other clubs with parachute payments are going to be able to offer better deals than us. Other than that, I'd expect us to have one of the highest wage bills in the Championship in 2024/25 if we are in that league.

Interested to know why you think that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Nick Jansky]

The contracts situation next summer is a problem - Prince must find an investor or club must stay in PL

He is clearly actively trying to secure a sale or investment. We will see what happens.

Beyond that, anyone catastrophising about what may or may not happen in the future is a bit of a fool.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You don't genuinely believe that Hecky bowed to fan pressure with that decision surely?

First, he wouldn't and second, there wasn't any.

Fan pressure may be the wrong words. There was however much criticism of his continued selection which peaked after the Luton defeat (see pommpey s My Take). If the decision to finally drop them only occurred after another poor performance, it makes you wonder what he was seeing. The changes made then sent us on a run for promotion with Burnley the only blip.

Whilst he’s severely hogtied now with a lack of funds we can see his loyalty to his players. That loyalty when some were struggling caused the wobble we suffered.

 

[robbiez666]

Fan pressure may be the wrong words. There was however much criticism of his continued selection which peaked after the Luton defeat (see pommpey s My Take). If the decision to finally drop them only occurred after another poor performance, it makes you wonder what he was seeing. The changes made then sent us on a run for promotion with Burnley the only blip.

Whilst he’s severely hogtied now with a lack of funds we can see his loyalty to his players. That loyalty when some were struggling caused the wobble we suffered.

You could also argue that loyalty was the reason we went up and that it's quite rare for players to actively press for a move away. For good or ill.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You could also argue that loyalty was the reason we went up and that it's quite rare for players to actively press for a move away. For good or ill.

Currently our midfield will come from the following. Fleck, Osborn, Norwood , Berge Baldock Bogle and Lowe. How many starters there? At least two of them didn’t look to be going anywhere near the PL when their deals ran out.