Are we really that bad?

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Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Is one in real life, watched in the flesh, at the ground Robinson.

And is the other the Robinson fans watch on the TV and streams.

🤓
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Is one better than the other?

Asking for Silent and the rest of the 'real life Billy Big Blades'

pommpey
 
pommpey said:
Is one better than the other?

Asking for Silent and the rest of the 'real life Billy Big Blades'

pommpey
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How do you feel about leadership qualities? Talking to other defenders. Reinforcing things done well. Suggesting what might have been done better. Holding hands up and moving on from problems. Listening to instructions from the bench. Passing them on. Pointing. Encouraging. Organising. Motivating. It's no longer a game where being able to kick it well is enough. Do you feel you get enough of a feel for those qualities on a stream?

I, for instance, am obsessed with set up for defensive corners. Who is the front screen? Who is the Zone Man? Is it a centre zone or back post zone? I watch the defensive coach give instructions from the bench and then watch how well the defenders set up.

I know you can generally mark Berge out of ten from the Tele. And, angles & replays & other capers give the stream watcher a good/better feel/view than an obscured view from the back of the Bramall Lane Upper Corner. But, do you feel there are aspects of the game only/best assessed in the ground?
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
How do you feel about leadership qualities? Talking to other defenders. Reinforcing things done well. Suggesting what might have been done better. Holding hands up and moving on from problems. Listening to instructions from the bench. Passing them on. Pointing. Encouraging. Organising. Motivating. It's no longer a game where being able to kick it well is enough. Do you feel you get enough of a feel for those qualities on a stream?
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Depends who is marshalling the defence. The way I see it McB (when he is on the pitch) is the floating centreback who directly attacks the cross with Egan centrally positioned pivoting as the ball comes across and JLT and Anel picking up the tall men. Berge also has (but usually fails doing) a role in picking up runners and late arrivals. Norwood is usually front and Billy is sometimes at back with George and Max doing the blocking and harrying. Fleck is usually in or around our D with NDaiye as the boot-long or feed the channels out route

I, for instance, am obsessed with set up for defensive corners. Who is the front screen? Who is the Zone Man? Is it a centre zone or back post zone? I watch the defensive coach give instructions from the bench and then watch how well the defenders set up.
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The zonal set up depends on who we are playing and if they employ a 'love train' which splits on taking the dead ball. Zonal marking can be effective but we aren't good at it. We are best going person to person man marking and getting opposition players under pressure with one player nominated to intercept the cross

I know you can generally mark Berge out of ten from the Tele. And, angles & replays & other capers give the stream watcher a good/better feel/view than an obscured view from the back of the Bramall Lane Upper Corner. But, do you feel there are aspects of the game only/best assessed in the ground?
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No, not really. Ask someone in the John Street junction with the BLUT if they thought Lowe's clumsy challenge was inside the box. Ask me if (when sat in the BLUT) I thought NDaiye was offside when McAtee passed to him v Wigan at home. I had to look at the lino and ref as I was jumping up and down, I bet those at home had no doubt.

The only advantage you have is atmosphere. And for those detractors on my opinions on the game (and note: They are 'my opinions' and don't change the nature of the game or its result) I never hear anyone say 'I saw it clearly and 'x' happened'. I do hear people say 'Berge worked his socks off' and 'Norwood makes the team tick' however when from my high angle, both are pretty ineffective for long periods of the game.

pommpey
 
pommpey said:
Depends who is marshalling the defence. The way I see it McB (when he is on the pitch) is the floating centreback who directly attacks the cross with Egan centrally positioned pivoting as the ball comes across and JLT and Anel picking up the tall men. Berge also has (but usually fails doing) a role in picking up runners and late arrivals. Norwood is usually front and Billy is sometimes at back with George and Max doing the blocking and harrying. Fleck is usually in or around our D with NDaiye as the boot-long or feed the channels out route



The zonal set up depends on who we are playing and if they employ a 'love train' which splits on taking the dead ball. Zonal marking can be effective but we aren't good at it. We are best going person to person man marking and getting opposition players under pressure with one player nominated to intercept the cross



No, not really. Ask someone in the John Street junction with the BLUT if they thought Lowe's clumsy challenge was inside the box. Ask me if (when sat in the BLUT) I thought NDaiye was offside when McAtee passed to him v Wigan at home. I had to look at the lino and ref as I was jumping up and down, I bet those at home had no doubt.

The only advantage you have is atmosphere. And for those detractors on my opinions on the game (and note: They are 'my opinions' and don't change the nature of the game or its result) I never hear anyone say 'I saw it clearly and 'x' happened'. I do hear people say 'Berge worked his socks off' and 'Norwood makes the team tick' however when from my high angle, both are pretty ineffective for long periods of the game.

pommpey
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Do you watch (on TV, streams), analyse and mentally mark games that don't involve Sheffield United. Mentally mark, but don't My Take for the record?
 
Sheffsteel said:
Think most of our players are Championship standard..

BUT think Hecky has a bit of the Jose Mourinho's about him.
What I mean is that he's pragmatic, it's often not pretty but is usually incredibly effective.
It's win at any cost mentality, so expect us to spend large spells in matches parking the bus

and you have to admit this season when we decide to sit back...we are fantastic at soaking up pressure.
Even Man City struggled against us, they needed a penalty and breakaway counter attack from a big defensive mistake.
Again in the FA cup Spurs had loads of attacks against but never looked like scoring.
Wouldn't surprise me if we pick up quite alot of 1-0 wins, don't think anyone will thrash us because we are so defensively strong.

The big weakness regards our defence is the lack of pace, Egan gets done all the time.
However if we sit back and get in our shape, then it's difficult for even the likes of a Man City to create much.
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In hindsight what we tried vs City didn't work.

Acknowledging that almost all that we tried wouldn't work(!) I'd say even from within our own squad, Mahrez has far less of a free reign if it's Norrington-Davies marking him and if McBurnie had started instead of Jebbo, he's far less likely to risk a tackle like that and might have given us more presence up top.

We'd have no doubt found some other way to lose and I appreciate you can't pick players on the fitness table but as much as time is a great healer it also makes forget other things. For instance, Norrington-Davies was a player of the year contender before getting injured
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
How do you feel about leadership qualities? Talking to other defenders. Reinforcing things done well. Suggesting what might have been done better. Holding hands up and moving on from problems. Listening to instructions from the bench. Passing them on. Pointing. Encouraging. Organising. Motivating. It's no longer a game where being able to kick it well is enough. Do you feel you get enough of a feel for those qualities on a stream?

I, for instance, am obsessed with set up for defensive corners. Who is the front screen? Who is the Zone Man? Is it a centre zone or back post zone? I watch the defensive coach give instructions from the bench and then watch how well the defenders set up.

I know you can generally mark Berge out of ten from the Tele. And, angles & replays & other capers give the stream watcher a good/better feel/view than an obscured view from the back of the Bramall Lane Upper Corner. But, do you feel there are aspects of the game only/best assessed in the ground?
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To me, the advantage to being in the ground is that you can amend your viewpoint. In the tv streams you are largely obliged to follow the ball.

The run to one side just in case something breaks a certain way or the way the defence is marshalled when you are attacking or the instructions the keeper is giving and how vocal he is anticipating play are less visible. When you consider that roughly 50% of the time you don't have the ball and at any given time when you have the ball only one player is in possession, there is a lot going on that seems like common sense but which will be drilled into players repeatedly on the training ground. All those runs that lead to nothing but may lead to something on a different day.

That's also why sometimes you'll hear a fan say so-and-so had a good game. In terms of output they didn't but they just saw a lot of the ball. Meanwhile, another player, like say a Monty, has few touches but in fact his role has been to deny space to the other team's star man. I think Merson once paid him a compliment when he marked him out of the game when he was at Portsmouth. Monty probably did very little in possession that day. To a fan that might seem a 6 or 7. To the manager that might be a 9.

This is my own consideration. You don't get to observe for 5 minutes how Egan positions himself in his role in the team because that interests you. To some degree you are the proverbial headless chicken chasing the ball on tv as this is all they show you.
 
For three seasons now we’ve needed physicality and athleticism in midfield.
Our defence is just about good enough for the PL and our attack is just about good enough (if we keep Iliman for the season)…but our midfield is non-existent.
We need at least three strong, skilful midfielders who can run all day.
This is where we need the bulk of our investment imho.
 
The Max Lowe of last season is no better than a mid championship player, hopefully we'll see a big difference and a player wanted by Forest a year ago.
 
Frank the tank said:
Looks like once again the management staff and players will have to do it without the backing of the fans

To have achieved what they have against a backdrop of hysteria and glum pessimism is some achievement and I guess is why they all mentioned the fans during the celebrations in some kind of vein attempt to get them onside and behind them next season when they will be needed

Not looking like it worked so far
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Where do you get that from?The celebrations were great and long lasting.
The fans ! we know whats ahead and it maybe tough going ! Nothing new about that ,just give it our best shot.
Going to be hard (goes without saying) enough without fans like you down playing the acheavement.the.
 
Fulham are 10th. How many players do we have who'd get in their team?

Ndiaye would. AA would challenge to but probably be 3rd choice CB
 
biggiesablade said:
Have they really got two defenders better than Anel 😯
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Adarabioyo is a very good defender, similar to AA but probably better on the ball. Diop is fast, strong, good defensively. He'd challenge them but he's not just walking in
 
pommpey said:
I watch some other games. Whatever takes my fancy.

Why the interrogation?

pommpey
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Hope you don't mind. As I think/hope I've said before on other threads, I don't watch any football on TV/Streams. (Maybe some England games in World Cup final tournaments). And, I write a lot about fan culture, terrace culture. So, "you" don't fit the model I am familiar with. I'm just inquisitive. Something I don't understand, I like to know how it works, is all.

Someone says to me (for eg) - Phil, is Robinson PL quality?

I think - fuck do I know, I don't watch any PL games.

So, I'm intrigued by how people go about judging (for eg) whether Robinson is or isn't PL quality. (Not looking for you to answer that btw)

I once wrote on this forum (something like)

I am not a football fan, I'm not even sure I'm a Sheffield United fan, I'm a fan of going to watch Sheffield United play.

Would you understand that distinction?

Incidentally, silent has reminded me that I said I'm not a United fan in tiny spats I've had with him over the years. But, you and I, two people who write about every (in your case) or lots (in my case) of United games, clearly inhabit different bits of fandom. So, I'm interested. Hence the interrogation.
 

Bath Blade said:
We might get away with our first eleven being good enough but the rest of the squad certainly isn’t good enough, as was shown this season as soon as we started to get injuries, which we will undoubtedly also get next season.
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We played a big chunk of the season with a massive injury list to key players but did pretty well in my opinion.
 
GK: Wes - If no replacement available then no reason not to give him a chance
LCB: JLT - Do a job when needed but we will need better in my opinion
CB: Egan - fine for prem
RCB - Anel prem ready definitely
LWB: RND - Interested to see if a) Stays fit and b) Cope well with the step up
RWB: Baldock - Prem Definitely
CM: Norwood - Good option to have for off of bench or rotation
CM: Doyle - If we get him back be a quality addition
CAM: Berge - Jurys out on him, not exactly ripped championship up but played very well in the deeper role toward end of this season
CAM: Ndiaye - .
ST: McBurnie - Again good option to have, might not score the most but be a handful to a lot of teams and allow the likes of Ndiaye roam
 
Carlton Blade said:
Adarabioyo is a very good defender, similar to AA but probably better on the ball. Diop is fast, strong, good defensively. He'd challenge them but he's not just walking in
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Still can't believe they got Adarabioyo for £1.5m ish. If I've remembered that correctly, and it was reported correctly.

We need those kind of bargains 👍🤞

Agree with many posts on this thread. Our best 6 or 7 players are up to the task.

Decent personality and desire in reserve, but not a "Premier League" squad in technical quality. We need minimum 5 new players, more like 9 or 10 in an ideal world. With bare minimum 3 good enough to improve first 11 in the weaker points.

We may not have much to spend on transfer fees, but I'm confident we can be shrewd. If signings look decent on paper, I'll be confident we can have a good go at finishing 16/17th.
 
brownblade said:
Still can't believe they got Adarabioyo for £1.5m ish. If I've remembered that correctly, and it was reported correctly.

We need those kind of bargains 👍🤞

Agree with many posts on this thread. Our best 6 or 7 players are up to the task.

Decent personality and desire in reserve, but not a "Premier League" squad in technical quality. We need minimum 5 new players, more like 9 or 10 in an ideal world. With bare minimum 3 good enough to improve first 11 in the weaker points.

We may not have much to spend on transfer fees, but I'm confident we can be shrewd. If signings look decent on paper, I'll be confident we can have a good go at finishing 16/17th.
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Yep agree absolutely bare minimum we need to bring is 3.

2 midfielders and 1 striker (as long as we keep Berge and Ndiaye)

As others have mentioned, I dont think we will be bottom of the 'goals conceded' charts even with our current defence.

However, the amount we score will be the biggest conundrum, even as good as Ndiaye is, one area where he probably still needs to improve is his finishing.

Even though I rate Ndiaye as all round better player than MGW, I think MGW is a better finisher and he only managed 6 goals this season.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Hope you don't mind. As I think/hope I've said before on other threads, I don't watch any football on TV/Streams. (Maybe some England games in World Cup final tournaments). And, I write a lot about fan culture, terrace culture. So, "you" don't fit the model I am familiar with. I'm just inquisitive. Something I don't understand, I like to know how it works, is all.
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It's my only option, obviously. And whilst many insist that your arse on a plastic seat is the only qualification to confidently comment on a game of football, that effectively cancels out any method of watching a game full stop. I refute that absolutely. If that were the case, billions of pounds would be burned away from football in a penstroke, based entirely on an entitled opinion of those who have the time, location and resources to sit in the ground. It also stinks badly of 'I've paid for my position as a United fan, which is loftier than thou'. Finally, I have heard some palpable bullshit - even on here - from supporters who have sat and watched games, usually the same game I have watched on TV. Terrace culture is a small (but not entirely insignificant) facet of fan culture. Outside of the four flat, pitch-facing stands at any football ground is a legion of pub-sitting, phone-watching, TV scrutinising addicts for whom (like me) the words 'footy on tonight' to the household means the decks are cleared and everyone shuts the fuck up whilst the contest goes on. And my wife, a Solent born woman, sits and watches it too. We are ALL Blades.

Someone says to me (for eg) - Phil, is Robinson PL quality?

I think - fuck do I know, I don't watch any PL games.

So, I'm intrigued by how people go about judging (for eg) whether Robinson is or isn't PL quality. (Not looking for you to answer that btw)
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But if you watch even MotD you'll see the level of class needed to go up against PL teams, many of whom comprise quality foreign-bought footballers. You know Robinsons pluses and minuses and you've seen him put tackles in and be left for dead. An example was Mahrez's third goal at Wembley three weeks ago. With him sideways on and expecting a lay off wide. both he and Egan simply waved him through on goal. Mahrez showed in an instant that you won't get away with that shit upstairs and long before Mahrez got near our box, he should at least been clattered and at most stopped. Robinson has some pluses, his gritty, industrial tackling and sometimes his positional sense playing out from the back but other times he is outfoxed even by the ball in mid air or quicker attackers thwart his desperate lunges and get past him. But he does have a goal in him, as seen. But he does need to get used to quicker, more agile and certainly cleverer attackers and midfielders who will, if he's having a bad game, centre on his bearing.

I once wrote on this forum (something like)

I am not a football fan, I'm not even sure I'm a Sheffield United fan, I'm a fan of going to watch Sheffield United play.

Would you understand that distinction?
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Kind of. There are a lot of people on here who in some ways fit that template of 'football watchers', and then a subset of those who don't understand the game, the formations, the tactics and even what is expected from what position. For me it is evident on screen when Hecky has switched from 5-3-2 with a flat midfield to a 3-4-1-2 or a 3-4-2-1 to stop our midfield getting bummed and to lift pressure to get the ball back up the pitch to the feet of NDaiye. It's also evident to me what Hecky's next sub will be (even though you guys see who is warming up before we do) although sometimes he does shock us at home and no doubt those at the Lane. It's also evident to us at home what the crowd is doing from both sets of supporters because if I hear an unfamiliar song it usually means the opposition fans are a bit more confident than we are and happier with the game.

Incidentally, silent has reminded me that I said I'm not a United fan in tiny spats I've had with him over the years. But, you and I, two people who write about every (in your case) or lots (in my case) of United games, clearly inhabit different bits of fandom. So, I'm interested. Hence the interrogation.
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It frustrates me that some sectors of fans are so damned evangelical about what constitutes 'real fans' and hence the veracity of their opinions and output, especially on here. People often call others out as Wednesdayites or worse (is there anything worse than being a pigfan?) or they will offer that you were watching a different match yet without a shred of what they thought or countering evidence. It's a piece of piss to be critical with someone's words but rendered utterly worthless unless you back it up with your own take. Some do - and many I disagree with and stand by my account - but they get 'likes' just for taking the tie to explain why they disagree. Whether they are sat in the ground or not is never a qualifier though. I don't regard anyone's presence at the match as anything greater than mine at home. As said. I can pause, rewind, have multiple camera angles and slow motion replays. sneeze at the match and you'll miss a handball, a two-foot-red-carder, the position of the ball and player with regard phases of play in offside decisions, if the keeper touched the ball over yet they got a goal kick and whole host of other foibles. Buying a seat in the ground won't give you any better input into the way the match evolves nor which way fate takes us any more or less than mine at home. I envy those at the match because of the experience but you're no more a Unitedite than I am who lives for every next game and never misses a day logged on here looking for titbits of news or at least ten times a day exchange conversations with my two Blades buddies in Sheffield on WhatsApp.

pommpey
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) pommpey I also watch nearly every match on laptop/TV from South of England. Prior to that I listened to every match on blades website (I even used to get my Dad to put his landline phone next to computer speaker when I was at Uni). Prior to that I was glued to ceefax during matches with Radio 5 usually.

I think I'm a pretty Bladey Blade overall.

I'm terms of analysing matches, I personally am too into it to analyse particularly accurately on first viewing, but I think screen and stadium have separate advantages. However, screen and replays are almost certainly going to be more accurate overall than a random stadium angle with people distracting you - and naturally for "true analysis" clubs employ video analysts.

Hope to have a season ticket again one day, but as long as Blades do well, I'm happy.
 
Isn't there a simple dynamic?
Every Blade who is watching the game on a screen, or following the game on an App, would prefer to be at the game.
No Blade who is at the game would prefer to be watching on a screen.

Or, am I still misunderstanding? Do some fans, who have a choice, deliberately choose a screen?
 
hecky is expert of getting results out of mediocre performances
we need 12 wins and a few draws, at home we can get 10 wins and 2 away will be enough
our players arent man citys bench players but can raise their game in front of 30k to earn a win against the normal clubs
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Isn't there a simple dynamic?
Every Blade who is watching the game on a screen, or following the game on an App, would prefer to be at the game.
No Blade who is at the game would prefer to be watching on a screen.

Or, am I still misunderstanding? Do some fans, who have a choice, deliberately choose a screen?
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Most would rather be at the game I'm sure. I would.

Plenty of other factors or mindsets to consider though, in fairness.
 
We lack athleticism in the middle of the park which will cause us problems next year. When we went up both Fleck and Lunny were capable of doing 90 minutes box to box which dovetailed nicely with Norwood and allowed him to express himself whilst covering up his weak spot. We don’t currently have that now and if it’s not addressed it’ll be a big problem like in the relegation season.
 
blade too long said:
hecky is expert of getting results out of mediocre performances
we need 12 wins and a few draws, at home we can get 10 wins and 2 away will be enough
our players arent man citys bench players but can raise their game in front of 30k to earn a win against the normal clubs
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Hecky just got us over 90pts with a side of players many fans (not necessarily me) have said aren't good enough. Top man.
 
bongleblade said:
Had a bit of a think over the past week about our first team lineup (when everyones fit) and i keep flip-flopping between nailed on 20th and comfortable survival…

so having a proper look, i think we’re currently somewhere in between… i’m starting to believe we wont be whipping boys and could give it a good go at survival

GK: Wes - championship
LCB: JLT - championship
CB: Egan - PL
RCB - Anel - PL
LWB: RND - championship
RWB: Baldock - PL
CM: Norwood - top championship
CM: Doyle - top championship
CAM: Berge - PL
CAM: Ndiaye - PL
ST: McBurnie/Brewster - Championship/PL potential

Bogle - top championship/PL potential
JLT - championship
Lowe - championship/PL potential
Jebbison - championship/PL potential


With this in mind - assuming we get doyle on loan i think we’re 3x more shrewd additions covering each area to be decent PL competitors - we clearly need a Striker, CM and CB, with GK and LWB as some other priorities for our starting lineup - all assuming we’re releasing sharp/stevens/fleck of course

am i completely deluded in thinking It’s doable with a £15m spend, a couple foreign loans and 1x other PL loan?
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The only true PL comparison we have of the squad is Spuds, where we rested 8 and still won. Man city where we controlled them for 45mins. So perhaps we underestimate what the boys can be.
 
We need a CB and a LWB, 2 midfielders who can move a bit, and a goalscorer. I believe our defence is capable, there are a lot of defenders in the premiership who are poor, and some international players as well, the likes of
Keane ( Everton)
Cooper, Ayling (Leeds)
Mings (Villa)
annd a few more
If we get a decent start and the crowd get behind them we'll grow in confidence and with a strong midfield I think we'll be ok🤞
 

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