Tonights Corporate Meeting With The Chairman

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Sothall_Blade said:
The hints and allegations aren't just about the quality of the work, they're about illegalities (i.e. fraud).
If that's the reason people have been sacked then why would McCabe and the club let them get away with it?
Would he turn a blind eye to employees defrauding his other businesses?

I'm not saying whether what you're saying is true or not. I have no idea.
But it seems very odd to me that United (or any club/company) would have sufficient evidence of fraud to sack someone but do nothing else about it.
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Not necessarily illegalities. Morally dubious, not in the interest of the football club, bad work, illegal? Where does one draw the line? Can any of it be proven?
Better to just take control yourself.
For us fans, it means we don't get a capable football man with the football club's interests at heart.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
The hints and allegations aren't just about the quality of the work, they're about illegalities (i.e. fraud).
If that's the reason people have been sacked then why would McCabe and the club let them get away with it?
Would he turn a blind eye to employees defrauding his other businesses?

I'm not saying whether what you're saying is true or not. I have no idea.
But it seems very odd to me that United (or any club/company) would have sufficient evidence of fraud to sack someone but do nothing else about it.

Regarding McCabe going to Brussels at the wrong time.
First he says, "blame the manager I don't get involved with transfers" then he says "it all went wrong because I wasn't closely involved".
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Prove it. That's the bottom line. Did we sign X because he was a good prospect or just to line the pockets of someone? How can you prove one way or another?
 
So everyone on here who expects us to be able to keep a player to his contract would be ok if it happened to them at their workplace ?
You're earning 50k a year but another company want you. They're going to give you 25k to go and work for them as a signing fee, they're also going to double your wages and the promotion you're getting is a possible stepping stone to a better even more exciting and interesting career.
I am surprised how many would stay at the current workplace, if your employer told you he was going to hold you to your contract (the one your new employer was buying you out of)
I have to say I'm with the players who are "forced" out. Loyalty in football is a common as it is in the workplace.
 
DazBlade88 said:
Looking at the squad I'd say...

Brayford, Basham, Coutts, Sharp, Baxter, Baptiste, Cuvelier, Edgar, Hammond will all be on £5k+. Then you have Woolford, Flynn, Done, Harris, J Wallace and Howard who could all be around that as an educated guess. It's not beyond the realms of possibility at all.
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How could you forget Sammon?!? :)

It wouldn't surprise me if 5 of the above are on around £10k per week all on.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
The hints and allegations aren't just about the quality of the work, they're about illegalities (i.e. fraud).
If that's the reason people have been sacked then why would McCabe and the club let them get away with it?
Would he turn a blind eye to employees defrauding his other businesses?

I'm not saying whether what you're saying is true or not. I have no idea.
But it seems very odd to me that United (or any club/company) would have sufficient evidence of fraud to sack someone but do nothing else about it.

Regarding McCabe going to Brussels at the wrong time.
First he says, "blame the manager I don't get involved with transfers" then he says "it all went wrong because I wasn't closely involved".
Click to expand...


Who has mentioned illegalities? Acting outside the remit they had been given doesn't necessarily mean anything illegal happened. Fraud is a serious accusation to make and I've not seen any mention of that from the club.
 
AlienWoodward said:
So everyone on here who expects us to be able to keep a player to his contract would be ok if it happened to them at their workplace ?
You're earning 50k a year but another company want you. They're going to give you 25k to go and work for them as a signing fee, they're also going to double your wages and the promotion you're getting is a possible stepping stone to a better even more exciting and interesting career.
I am surprised how many would stay at the current workplace, if your employer told you he was going to hold you to your contract (the one your new employer was buying you out of)
I have to say I'm with the players who are "forced" out. Loyalty in football is a common as it is in the workplace.
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That's apples and oranges. Most people have notice periods. Footballers do not. They can be held to contracts.
 
Sean Thornton said:
But the problem is the player then lets the contract run down and the club get nothing. Or, like McDonald insists on a low buy out clause inserted in order to sign a new one.
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Yes, but in the meantime, the club can get promoted with a better player in it - see Leeds and Beckford. Then the rewards are greater than the transfer fee.

Who cares what the club gets? We got circa 1 million for Blackman. We would have got more in playoff final gate receipts.

The arguments against being firmer with our better players are all defeatist in the extreme IMHO. Plus the actual results of this cowardice have been shambolic - look at the league table.
 
Revolution said:
Yes, but in the meantime, the club can get promoted with a better player in it - see Leeds and Beckford. Then the rewards are greater than the transfer fee.

The arguments against being firmer with our better players are all defeatist in the extreme IMHO. Plus the actual results of this cowardice have been shambolic - look at the league table.
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Unless someone comes in with a bid of the required amount during the promotion push.

I don't believe it's just as simple as saying no. Try harder by all means, but the reality is that players on the up hold the aces. Particularly if they see the club going nowhere.
 
Treeton Blade said:
Its easy with hindsight to say the new board would have rejected Sammon.
But if Adkins wanted him, a striker who has never played below the Championship, and has International caps, would the new board have said no?

Every signing is a gamble, there will always be mistakes, as he mentioned last week, naming the Ebbrell signing he, and Dooley sanctioned.
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If Adkins came to the board today and said I'd like to sign Emile Heskey for next season, he's got loads of England Caps has never played outside the top 2 divisions and is available on a free this summer, I'd like to think they would tell him to go away! All the board had to do last summer was after looking at his dubious Stats, just ask the Ipswich or Rotherham set ups what Sammon was like.

Learning from mistakes should be key to the boards thinking this year.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Who has mentioned illegalities? Acting outside the remit they had been given doesn't necessarily mean anything illegal happened. Fraud is a serious accusation to make and I've not seen any mention of that from the club.
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I didn't say that anybody at the club had mentioned illegalities.
I've only seen rumours and hints on this message board like the one I replied to:-

nopigfansintown said:
KM's criticisms of the football based administrative staff cannot be elaborated on for legal reasons. I wouldn't really risk expanding, beyond saying, that they weren't working in the football club's best interest. They of course left the club much richer than when they joined...
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I know fraud is a serious accusation. That's precisely why I was querying it
 
Revolution said:
That's apples and oranges. Most people have notice periods. Footballers do not. They can be held to contracts.
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A period of notice isn't a legal thing. It is more a courtesy. You don't break bridges with your employer and he will give you a good reference.
There is nothing stopping someone saying stuff you I'm off and walking out. Would an employer drag them back and say "Not until you've worked your notice"
There are thousands of people who walk out of work without giving notice.
Many years ago before I became self employed I handed my notice in properly. My boss said he didn't want me around the workplace spreading negativity and paid me and my notice up.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Unless someone comes in with a bid of the required amount during the promotion push.

I don't believe it's just as simple as saying no. Try harder by all means, but the reality is that players on the up hold the aces. Particularly if they see the club going nowhere.
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But the club goes nowhere because of this policy. It's a circular argument.

It's defeatist in the extreme, and it's been a failed strategy, and I can't believe many supporters so readily accept the clubs explanation that there's nothing to be done and it's all very difficult.
 
Nothing is ever his fault is it?

Reading his very plausible explanations, I frequently have to pinch myself to wake up and remember that we really are in League 1
 

Sothall_Blade said:
I didn't say that anybody at the club had mentioned illegalities.
I've only seen rumours and hints on this message board like the one I replied to:-



I know fraud is a serious accusation. That's precisely why I was querying it
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Who hinted at fraud? As far as I'm aware you're the only one whose mentioned it.

Legal reasons could just be a non disclosure agreement.
 
AlienWoodward said:
A period of notice isn't a legal thing. It is more a courtesy. You don't break bridges with your employer and he will give you a good reference.
There is nothing stopping someone saying stuff you I'm off and walking out. Would an employer drag them back and say "Not until you've worked your notice"
There are thousands of people who walk out of work without giving notice.
Many years ago before I became self employed I handed my notice in properly. My boss said he didn't want me around the workplace spreading negativity and paid me and my notice up.
Click to expand...

You're wrong. A period of notice is a legal thing, and breaching it has consequences. As it would if a player tried to sign for someone else while under contract.
 
AlienWoodward said:
A period of notice isn't a legal thing. It is more a courtesy. You don't break bridges with your employer and he will give you a good reference.
There is nothing stopping someone saying stuff you I'm off and walking out. Would an employer drag them back and say "Not until you've worked your notice"
There are thousands of people who walk out of work without giving notice.
Many years ago before I became self employed I handed my notice in properly. My boss said he didn't want me around the workplace spreading negativity and paid me and my notice up.
Click to expand...
It can be a legal thing if it's stipulated in your contract.
 
Revolution said:
But the club goes nowhere because of this policy. It's a circular argument.

It's defeatist in the extreme, and it's been a failed strategy, and I can't believe many supporters so readily accept the clubs explanation that there's nothing to be done and it's all very difficult.
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I'm not accepting the clubs explanation I'm basis img my comments on the realities. Of course it's defeatist. That goes without saying. That's the outcome though, not the contractual negotiations themselves.
 
Sean Thornton said:
I'm not accepting the clubs explanation I'm basis img my comments on the realities. Of course it's defeatist. That goes without saying. That's the outcome though, not the contractual negotiations themselves.
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How do other clubs do it then? How did Huddersfield keep Rhodes?
 
grafikhaus said:
Don't see many 'ageing has-beens' at the Champions, Wigan. Maybe they employ those mystical beings that used to be called 'scouts'?
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That is true but they were the one club with a higher revenue. £9M parachute payments is about the size of our turnover.

Why we go for ageing has-beens is a complete mystery though.
 
Revolution said:
You're wrong. A period of notice is a legal thing, and breaching it has consequences. As it would if a player tried to sign for someone else while under contract.
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In that case an employer can sue to a tribunal for breach of contract. That would probably only amount to the wages the employee would have earned.
But I'm not wrong not all notices are legal and you can walk out of legal ones. You may be sued, but probably not.
And if clubs could stop players leaving and keep the same in form player, then many would do it.
 
AlienWoodward said:
So everyone on here who expects us to be able to keep a player to his contract would be ok if it happened to them at their workplace ?
You're earning 50k a year but another company want you. They're going to give you 25k to go and work for them as a signing fee, they're also going to double your wages and the promotion you're getting is a possible stepping stone to a better even more exciting and interesting career.
I am surprised how many would stay at the current workplace, if your employer told you he was going to hold you to your contract (the one your new employer was buying you out of)
I have to say I'm with the players who are "forced" out. Loyalty in football is a common as it is in the workplace.
Click to expand...

I'd jump ship for a bottle of Panda Cola and some Burtons Fish & Chips, but thats because I'm profoundly unhappy.

I agree with the points you make though, whilst we do have the power to hold a player to his contract, there can be consequences.
 
There is a little bit of difference in a footballers working life to us mere mortals who can just say stuff your job i'm off to that place down the road ...................... the club holds the players registration so he cant just go and play for some other club, ask Carlos Tevez. Let's not let this get in the way of apologies for Super Blade
 
metalblade said:
There is a little bit of difference in a footballers working life to us mere mortals who can just say stuff your job i'm off to that place down the road ...................... the club holds the players registration so he cant just go and play for some other club, ask Carlos Tevez. Let's not let this get in the way of apologies for Super Blade
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Like McDonald Murphy and Jags did?
 
AlienWoodward said:
In that case an employer can sue to a tribunal for breach of contract. That would probably only amount to the wages the employee would have earned.
But I'm not wrong not all notices are legal and you can walk out of legal ones. You may be sued, but probably not.
And if clubs could stop players leaving and keep the same in form player, then many would do it.
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Well, I'll take my own knowledge of employment law over yours thanks.

In the world of football, Clubs can stop under contract players leaving. They own the registrations. You can't walk out and play for someone else.
 
The Crab said:
I'd jump ship for a bottle of Panda Cola and some Burtons Fish & Chips, but thats because I'm profoundly unhappy.

I agree with the points you make though, whilst we do have the power to hold a player to his contract, there can be consequences.
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Two bottles of Panda blue pop will cheer you up.

For an hour or two then it's back to shame and misery.
 

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