West Ham 2 United 0 - report

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Good report DB, keep it up whatever the naysayers do.

My gut feeling has been ever since the fixtures came out that the first point or three we would pick up would be against Fulham, let's see if i'm right!

Getting players signed so late in the window was criminal, it gave Heck'y and his team no time to work on the players ready for the game against Palace, The coaching staff are and always have been on a hiding to nothing.
Don't forget (and most of our supporters overlook this), that incoming players move to a new city, have to find somewhere to live, get the kids settled into a new school in a new city, attend training, find their way around the club, try to understand a new playing style, Yes I know they get help but it must put a lot of strain on things until they adapt, I know some are living in hotels but living out of a suitcase isn't easy

All in all I think it will come right, maybe it will take ten or more games and things will look grim, then we'll pick up after the (new) players adapt to there new surroundings and the level they have to play at.

Have faith, trust in Heck'y and his team, we will survive.

UTB
 
Christ after reading the report and messages I’m doubting whether I want to go again. Fck me !!
 
Barry Butlin said:
Like who? Give me an example of who we could have signed?
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Well we spent Circa £40m+ so unless we need more than that to make our team better.

We have signed small ball playing players. We have underestimated the league and as a collective we got it wrong.
 
Bladezz said:
Well we spent Circa £40m+ so unless we need more than that to make our team better.

We have signed small ball playing players. We have underestimated the league and as a collective we got it wrong.
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Just give me one example of who we should have signed?
 
ReeceofBDTBL said:
What?! What utter shit to write about one of the most valued contributors on here, not to mention part of one of the most authentic podcasts our fanbase has to offer.
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Is ‘authentic’ a kind way of saying ‘shambolic’?

Anyway, having finally read this thread, I’m going to upgrade my condemnation of the Deadbat bashing from “a bit harsh” to “just not on”.

I honestly can’t see what anyone could hugely disagree with. There’s always a slight negative slant with DB (their two big chances aside, I thought it was just about even until they scored), but from that point onwards we were woeful again, and the report was spot on.
 
Deadbat said:
United – It was a dreary performance and a putrid 2-0 defeat. We could and should have lost by more. West Ham had 20 shots – 9 on target (standard now teams have so many efforts) – United at least had 16 even if only 2 on target and only one even remotely close. The game began with West Ham winning a corner after 30 seconds and nearly scoring a few goals in the first 5 minutes. We looked not ready to start the game as another side ran all over us again. We got swamped down the left side with Thomas and McAtee not quick or strong enough to stop the power and pace of Soucek and Bowen. We gave it away cheaply (Hamer and Souza were the main two just to keep giving it away) and seemed to have little idea how to get up the pitch. We stayed level and did have an ok spell for 5 minutes but poor crossing/decisions in the final third meant we never even got a shot away or chance of note created.



West Ham then turned it up and just moved it quicker with stronger, quicker, and more intelligent players who ran off the ball. The movement of other teams is so much brighter. They had a few more efforts and two off the line and the goal was coming. When it did the two left sided players were guilty as it was like a practice ground goal. After this, they took over completely and scored another easy second as Hamer tossed the ball away cheaply again. After this we just seemed to be hanging on although McBurnie did have one chance he badly missed. However, if West Ham had gone in 3 or 4 up, it would have been fair. We looked so slow and weak and it was another game where it was like men v boys. We seemed to be just resigned to our fate. I am still not sure what our tactics are (that is on Hecky even though I will defend him a bit later) and we seem to have no idea how to get up the pitch and create/score a goal. We seem to be just hanging on and hoping to defend for 90 minutes. It is a ridiculous plan but I am not even sure the players are trying to play like that – we simply cannot get out as the players are not good enough or strong enough to win duels, keep the ball and pass it around with confidence. We know we will get shoved out of it, lose the battles (as not strong enough)and then technically the opponents are better.



The second half, we at least did not see a repeat of last week. Anel had a decent headed chance and Souza, McBurnie and Slimane had efforts (none anywhere near!) but in truth we never looked like coming back at all. West Ham just eased to the victory and if we had scored somehow, then they would have upped it again. They just did not turn on the burners like Newcastle. IF they had gone at us, I feel they would have got 4or 5 more goals but even with them just playing it like a training match, they still made Wes make more saves and had better chances/more efforts. It just sort of petered out. We did not have any idea really how to build up concerted pressure and it just became two teams just seeing out the match. Quite sad that as soon as they scored the first – the game was over and we sadly see that every week pretty much. Teams know we are not going to hurt them. They can defend high up the field as we have no pace and compress the play and then know we have to defend deep as we lack pace and mobility. So, the whole pattern of play sees the opponents play almost on half way and be almost entirely in our half.



I do worry that the players are losing heart and confidence and can see the argument tactically we do not know how to match up. We are way too open and teams get through us wide and centrally. Throw in we lose most set play headers and we look so susceptible to concede chances. I get many will point to the manager and coaching but I do feel strongly that even if we tweaked tactics (saw that with the 4-4-2 last week) we are struggling so much as individually and collectively teams are simply much better. We have a side full of Championship players. Even the vaunted signings like Hamer, Souza and Archer do not look up to this level in terms of physicality and running power. A lot are pointing at the likes of Egan and Ahmedhodzic struggling but I am not sure anyone played well today and most weeks we are losing every outfield battle. I thought Souza did a few ok bits and Bash and Slimane actually did ok when they came on but for the most part the players always look at full stretch. Maybe teams are fitter but they are just far stronger and more skilled. The old men v boy’s argument has never applied so much. Most teams at this level have like 7 or 8 huge units who can run all day. They then have 2 or 3 small technical players who are very clever. We have neither really.



The Blades lack belief, heart, and ability at this level and with little idea how to score goals when you are shipping them so easily at the other end, then that is a recipe for disaster. There will be further questions about the manager this week but surely the problems lie much deeper than that – this side is simply not at the level required to compete in the biggest and most expensive league in the world? There can be questions directed at the style (is there one), tactics, formation of course but there is also an argument that that masks that players are simply not quick, strong or skilled enough against their respective opponents. Every week. I suppose if we change the manager we might get a short turn uplift but I firmly believe that the problems are much deeper than Heckingbottom. The issue is that if you keep losing, then automatically the manager will be the one who carries the can. The comment Bettis made about him staying even if we go down was one he had to make as he could not say anything else but we knew if we had a big losing run or did not compete, then any club would change their manager. I personally am not sure what it achieves as we have to pay off Hecky and all his coaching staff and then we have another Slav situation where we probably have to play a new style and have a new way of playing – this is something that has been inbuilt at all levels. Again, can see the argument we cannot do any worse but the whole strategy of the board seems clear. We will take the money, probably go down (or would have tried to keep the better players and add to them rather than the half baked and abysmal pre-season planning we saw) and build again not risking the financial side. If we sack him then we are surely looking short term again and probably still go down -then what – sack the manager again and go back to the plan that had worked (albeit at the level below)? I can see the argument for a change and do not think it is nonsensical as we are losing every week and not even close but I am not sure it will change things. Yes, we might never know if we do not but again does anyone think any manager gets this set of players anywhere near to staying up? Some will argue Luton won today and are worse than us on paper but we also nearly beat Everton and Luton physically will cause teams more problems than us.



Tony Gale on commentary summed it up – saying that ‘they have not given themselves a chance with the selection of squad they’ve got.’ That is an outsider looking in. Granted the board cannot spend money they do not have – but shows the biggest change that needs to happen is a new owner and the current one has to drop the price. He allegedly wanted 170 million but if they go down he will struggle to give the club away in my opinion as will be back to the situation of last time having to recover financially. It is quite depressing after 7 games to think we are probably down and facing a real fight to get near the Derby points total but that is where we are at. Maybe we make a change and we see a shift but I doubt it very much. I just think we are away off what we need to be in terms of the players we have to give ourselves even a chance at this level.



Ratings:



Foderingham 7/10 – Our best player again. Made 2 or 3 good saves and had no chance with the goals. He is badly exposed every week. Feel sorry for him. Our player of the season by a country mile.



Bogle 4/10 – Shadow of the lively and skilful player we saw 2 years ago. His injuries have took away any running power/pace and he does not even go forward much now but when he does he does not beat a man ever. Defensively he gives his man too much room and does not switch on when it matters.



Thomas 3/10 – Thought he was dreadful and probably our poorest player. He was nowhere near his man all game and most of their play came down his side. Not given much help but he must be stronger, get tighter and do the basics. Could have given a penalty away. Going forward his crossing was abysmal over hitting everyone. On what I have seen can see why he was not getting in Leicester’s team. In 3 starts we have conceded 12 goals yet everyone was so critical of Larouci. Not sure he is much better.



Robinson 5/10 – Probably our best defender again and he was very ordinary. Had a few poor balls and moments forward wise but at least got his foot in and won a few tackles. We got took apart as teams came through us again as the shape did not work and we had no protection.



Ahmedhodzic 4/10 – His struggles continue. He seems so slow to react to things. A number of times Antonio just shrugged him off or he did not get to the ball quick enough. Bit better after Egan went off as he went central but West Ham were not attacking much at this point. Had one chance but he missed it when really should have done better.



Egan 4/10 – He is looking shot at this level. They put the ball into the box teams and we never win any headers. We seemed to lose every duel or cross and with better finishing they would have scored more. Antonio just outmuscled him when the ball went forward. We have to defend so deep due to his lack of pace. He seemed to pick up a bad injury and could be out for a while. Had a bit of a nightmare season.



Souza 5.5/10 – Maybe our best outfield starters and he was only average. He was better than last week and at least won a few tackles and got more involved but he does not really protect and too often the ball came off him or teams got past our midfield. A few silly fouls. He rarely passes forward at all and is so slow that other midfields can just run off us. He did put more effort in and thought he was one of the few who kept plugging away but another that looks way off the standard required for the top level. Went down with his Spanish team last year and will do the same again it seems. The fact he celebrates throws in is a desperate sign of how bad we are! He seemed to play better after we went behind – need him more determined at 0-0.



Hamer 3/10 – He has been abysmal the last few games. A total passenger. He had one shot blocked and another looped header but he has to be more involved in play and off the ball has to work much harder. His conditioning and fitness is poor as I watched opponents just get past him too easily and with Souza above we are a soft touch in midfield. We rarely put a tackle in and if we do they are normally desperate lunges as teams run away from us. He has scored two great goals but outside of this in general play he needs to do way more. He was one of our big money (yes, I know it’s not big money at this level) but another who is getting outworked and seems not fit enough. His give away on the second sealed the game.



McAtee 3/10 – Currently due to the lack of ball we have and us defending so much, seems a bit of a pointless signing. He had a few moments on it but mostly was having to run back. He nearly let them in early when Bowen just ragged him out of the way and down this side they had lots of chances as he did not pick up his man. Soucek was able to play almost as a striker as McAtee did not do the disciplined job he needed to do. Got booked and I was worried he might get sent off after that. Probably might be regretting coming back as top end of Champ he gets more of the ball and more involved. He will just be a passenger most weeks here sadly.



McBurnie 5/10 – Started with one or two decent bits of hold up but he regressed quite a bit and felt he gave it away too cheaply. Had an awful shinned effort and a better headed effort wide. However not sure the ball stuck with us up the top at all and he kind of disappeared but we are having to defend so much it is hard for the strikers but I look at Antonio and how he occupies defenders and he shows what we have to do to help us defend from the top.



Archer 4/10 – I am not sure his signing is working either as we probably cannot play 2 up front most games at this level as see none of the ball in midfield. No real service at all but he too got shrugged off it too easily and he is not as quick as I thought. He lacks the aggressiveness I thought he might have and seems quite timid as he loses a lot of 50-50’s. You see how good Ndiaye was in this regard (granted different players and it was Champ level) but he simply does not come out with the ball. He had one shot blocked and another a long way wide. After the excitement of the first half v Everton, he has been largely anonymous for 3 and a half games. Maybe if we had more ball and got more in the opposition half I could assess more but he still has to do more and put himself about more. I worry if we are completely marooned come the New Year, whether he will continue to really put himself about – not saying he is not a good pro – but he will know he is not staying here. Equally we would need to plan for next season. So, in a weird way it could be no more than a 3-month loan deal! If we are as good as gone by Jan/Feb like last time we may as well play likes of Jebbison, Osula and Traore maybe? (granted 2 of them probably leaving end of the season too but maybe one might stay!)
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Agree with your perspective on Archer. I just don't think we can carry a 'fox-in-the-box' or 'Billy Sharp' type striker in this team for most Premier league games. We only get to pick 11 players, and if one of them isn't involved because we can't provide any supply to them then that's a wasted resource.

We were the only PL team on Saturday to start with 2 central strikers. And those central strikers are invariably athletic specimans (tall, strong, fast, skillful). There is a reason Liverpool sold Brewster to us and Villa sold Archer despite them being really promising England u21 players. Its because this player type is going to struggle for gametime in the PL. The only teams that can utilize them are the very top teams who create a lot of chances, but they have the money to buy the full package, they don't need to compromise and sign a striker who is just a goal scorer.
 
Bergen Blade said:
My comment was about the position and role he's been playing so far.

Britton was a technically good player who played holding midfield before he joined us. We tried to play him as an attacking midfielder and it didn't work. He was neat, but not creative.

I think Mark Robins' most used system was 5-2-1-2, where Hamer was one of the two central midfielders.

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We've played him in wider, more offensive roles so far, and he hasn't had the impact most had hoped.

But - I've done some research since yesterday's post and it seems Robins did tweak his system a few times, including a "flat" 5-3-2, and Hamer's role in that may have been similar to the one he played yesterday. I can't comment how that affected his game and there are obviously other variables involved - Robins' tactics, his teammates at Coventry, the level and quality of opposition being lower in the Championship and so on.

I think yesterday's team/midfield didn't work and we may have to look at what changes we can make. One of them may be to put Hamer in the role he played most of the time at Coventry.
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I agree. Hamer was a DM at Coventry who created from deep. The team I want to see us play against Fulham is the following:


Bogle Anel Trusty Robbo Thomas
Souza Hamer
Slimane McAtee
McBurnie


  • I assume Hecky brings in Bash for Egan, but I think that leaves us (more) light physically so I'd prefer Trusty, who I like the look of
  • Hamer is a DM and we should give him a chance to sit in next to Souza. He has the quality on the ball and the tenacity off the ball to create a good partnership with Souza. We have been short in midfield recently, especially on the counter attack. Souza needs help back there.
  • Pushing McAtee forward would mean we are less reliant on him for defensive shape - a good thing.
  • I love what I've seen from Slimane so far, and he has the physical presence to manage the PL.
  • McBurnie has been our best player so far and think he would combine well with two creative midfielders to link with.
 
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