SUFC Academy performance

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Bill Johnson said:
Can't be reight.
Pigs are at forty two.
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There are, of course, a number of different ways of judging Academy success. One is on field performance. Sheffield Wednesday are having a very good U18 season. Played 15, won 10, lost only one. Goal difference of plus 29. Top of the table. (Blades in fourth, eight points adrift, although two games in hand).
 
There is no traditional promotion & relegation between tiers.
My layperson understanding is that you basically choose what tier you would like to be in, and you "apply". Assessments are made based on the budget, the facilities, the number of qualified coaches & the plans.
Premier League clubs naturally gravitate to Tier one. Smaller town clubs, who have had first team success can sometimes be way down the Academy tiers. Since I had more time to chuck my lot in watching more Academy games, Derby have moved from tier two to tier one & Burnley from tier three to tier two. Premier League Bournemouth are still tier three. Burnley, only very recently moved up to tier 2 are way down the rankings.

I sometimes explain that Shirecliffe is in Division 3. In that, there are two, proper big divisions above us, Premier League 2 Division one & Premier League 2 Division 2. The only mix is in the U23 Premier League Cup - we are in a group with tier one Everton & Blackburn - and the U18 FA Youth Cup
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
There are, of course, a number of different ways of judging Academy success. One is on field performance. Sheffield Wednesday are having a very good U18 season. Played 15, won 10, lost only one. Goal difference of plus 29. Top of the table. (Blades in fourth, eight points adrift, although two games in hand).
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Sound better than the seniors, hope they don't notice...
 
Am I right in also thinking that to become Tier one (as you say is based on coaches, facilities etc) this would require more investment in the Academy.

I'm sure some years ago to be rated Tier 2, for example, you had to have x number of pitches undercover/indoors. Which I believe is why them lot "invested" in The Big tent, as without this they could be accepted as a certain tier.
 
Which Wednesday academy player played in the Premier League?
Vardy??
 
Rusty view said:
Am I right in also thinking that to become Tier one (as you say is based on coaches, facilities etc) this would require more investment in the Academy.
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Basically, yes. It's audited every year too. It leaves us susceptible to Man City, Man U etc taking our players earlier thanks to the amazing EPPP system (that isn't at all biased towards the top clubs) but the difference between tier 1 and 2 investment is huge.
 
I'd like to see this table include the percentage of their academy players that don't make it. It's expected having the top Prem teams up their. When you have the likes of Chelsea having 40/50 players out on loan etc, it shows how many younger players they stockpile.

How many do we have in our academy at the moment, 40/50 in total?

I'd imagine your Man City's etc will have 200+
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
There is no traditional promotion & relegation between tiers.
My layperson understanding is that you basically choose what tier you would like to be in, and you "apply". Assessments are made based on the budget, the facilities, the number of qualified coaches & the plans.
Premier League clubs naturally gravitate to Tier one. Smaller town clubs, who have had first team success can sometimes be way down the Academy tiers.
Click to expand...

Rusty view said:
Am I right in also thinking that to become Tier one (as you say is based on coaches, facilities etc) this would require more investment in the Academy.
Click to expand...

I know a lad who moved from our academy to FLDC's academy as it was a step up for him both in money and prestige. Derby have Uncle Mel in charge, who has spunked millions on the buildings, pitches and the machine that goes 'ping'. Everything the trainers / physios / doctors ask for, is provided so the simple answer is 'Yes', it's all about the money.

Having said that, FLDC have managed the fantastic achievement of being below Wendy and their inflatable ballon, so that clearly takes a certain ineptitude.

While ever we have the court battle and no money for the first team, our academy will come a very poor second, so it is a very creditable achievement for a club only recently back in the Championship.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
There are, of course, a number of different ways of judging Academy success. One is on field performance. Sheffield Wednesday are having a very good U18 season. Played 15, won 10, lost only one. Goal difference of plus 29. Top of the table. (Blades in fourth, eight points adrift, although two games in hand).
Click to expand...

For me, first team players produced and transfer fees raised would be the only meaningful metrics. Don't know if it's the same now but weds have had a tendency to fill their youth teams with big, strong players (they had an advert at one point listing minimum height requirements - admittedly for goalkeepers but still) which is likely to produce good team results but doesn't necessarily mean you'll develop good footballers.

A large number of academy players will only be there so that the 2 or 3 that the club think have a chance have a team to play and train with.

I think that the United academy have done fantastically well and I'm not sure where we'd be without the money made from the sales of the players they've produced.
 
DazBlade88 said:
Basically, yes. It's audited every year too. It leaves us susceptible to Man City, Man U etc taking our players earlier thanks to the amazing EPPP system (that isn't at all biased towards the top clubs) but the difference between tier 1 and 2 investment is huge.
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We can hopefully nick some of them that "don't make the grade" e.g Brooks
 

DazBlade88 said:
Not necessarily him, but we're doing our bit in that regard trust me.
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I hope we are.

Putting all the episodes of illegal FFP payments currently being dealt with by UEFA to one side, City as a club are light years ahead due to the investment and we should be looking very closely at what they get rid of.

There will be many more Brooks at City - we are ideally placed to take advantage.

The "noisy neighbours" will stick the knife into Man U for decades if everything continues as it is.

UTB
 
One thing that has to be addressed is the big clubs nicking talent from the likes of us. Absolutely nothing we can do about it as long as they go about it the right way and approach the club first, yes we may get a minimal payment for a young player but every age group we have there is scouts looking to poach our best players.

These clubs are not poaching lads aged 15/16 who we have offered scholarships they are after kids from aged 8 upwards. We have lost a lot of talent in recent years, I have mentioned it before on here that earlier this season we lost a young lad to Man Utd. We are now in the process of losing a player to Man City, its a young 9/10 year old, a real talent for his age group and is the son of former footballer Nat Brown, I'm hoping his dad can see where the best place for him to progress is and its not at Man City, can't see him turning them down sadly.

There is loads of top talent at the academy at the moment, hopefully we can keep hold of the most promising because for me we are one of the best academies in the country regardless of what tier it says on paper.
 
HarryHaslam said:
One thing that has to be addressed is the big clubs nicking talent from the likes of us. Absolutely nothing we can do about it as long as they go about it the right way and approach the club first, yes we may get a minimal payment for a young player but every age group we have there is scouts looking to poach our best players.

These clubs are not poaching lads aged 15/16 who we have offered scholarships they are after kids from aged 8 upwards. We have lost a lot of talent in recent years, I have mentioned it before on here that earlier this season we lost a young lad to Man Utd. We are now in the process of losing a player to Man City, its a young 9/10 year old, a real talent for his age group and is the son of former footballer Nat Brown, I'm hoping his dad can see where the best place for him to progress is and its not at Man City, can't see him turning them down sadly.

There is loads of top talent at the academy at the moment, hopefully we can keep hold of the most promising because for me we are one of the best academies in the country regardless of what tier it says on paper.
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How many in the Reading squad?

Couple of goal beasts perhaps?
 
Would be interesting to see clubs ranked in terms of value added - both the amount of money spent and the number of academy players is going to skew these figures significantly. Taking those thigns into consideration makes Charlton's performance look even better.

That said I'm not entirely sure about the weighting. An academy that produces a PL player gets the same weighting as one that produces a League 1 and a League 2 player. Is that entirely reasonable, given the exponential difference in player values?
 
HarryHaslam said:
One thing that has to be addressed is the big clubs nicking talent from the likes of us. Absolutely nothing we can do about it as long as they go about it the right way and approach the club first, yes we may get a minimal payment for a young player but every age group we have there is scouts looking to poach our best players.

These clubs are not poaching lads aged 15/16 who we have offered scholarships they are after kids from aged 8 upwards. We have lost a lot of talent in recent years, I have mentioned it before on here that earlier this season we lost a young lad to Man Utd. We are now in the process of losing a player to Man City, its a young 9/10 year old, a real talent for his age group and is the son of former footballer Nat Brown, I'm hoping his dad can see where the best place for him to progress is and its not at Man City, can't see him turning them down sadly.

There is loads of top talent at the academy at the moment, hopefully we can keep hold of the most promising because for me we are one of the best academies in the country regardless of what tier it says on paper.
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Just look at the England side. How many came through top six academies and how many came through lesser clubs. You can say Rashford, Kane and Lingaard v Stones, Pickford, Walker, Maguire, Trippier, Rose, Ali, Sterling, Henderson, Delph etc.

It’s about what’s important in life. Do you want money or do you want to play football?

Eventually in life, you realise that it’s not about money, it’s about filling your time with something you enjoy doing. But that kind of wisdom has to be earned and acquired, it takes a strong character to understand that at 12 yo or even 18. Took me 50 years to work that one out.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Training Ground Guru have published their 21/22 Academy Productivity Rankings.

SUFC have fallen to 18th (from 13th). We're the second best Cat 2 Academy behind Crewe Alex, who are 9th best in the country.

trainingground.guru

Training Ground Guru | Academy Productivity Rankings 2021/22: Chelsea top for first time

Training Ground Guru | Chelsea have topped Training Ground Guru’s Academy Productivity Rankings for the first time ever.
trainingground.guru trainingground.guru
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Is this more important than our current position in the league? You would rather us have the 9th best Academy in the country and our 1st team being below mid table in League 2?
 
Silent Blade said:
Is this more important than our current position in the league? You would rather us have the 9th best Academy in the country and our 1st team being below mid table in League 2?
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Fuck me. What's got into you now? I am reporting the availability of a new report, released today on Academy Productivity in case people missed it.
 
I actually need to correct myself. I'm sorry. The quote should read...

Screenshot_20221013-222059_Chrome.jpg
 
Could someone explain to lay people this "thing" and also why it generates antagonism. Thanks. BTW Phil as a recipient of your blog to my inbox may I say how much I enjoy it's content and well structured , witty prose. Keep going.
 

The analysis also excludes any players "not listed as English on www.fbref.com". I'm not sure that excluding someone like Wilfried Zaha helps the statistics.

Edit: Silent Blade I'm pretty sure that's not at all what Ball_Sup (Phil) is trying to say and I'm not entirely sure what your agenda is.
 
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