Ball Sup Blog... SUFC Academy from Non-League

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

There has been recent discussion on threads dedicated to Jili Buyabu (General Blades Chat) & Miguel Freckleton (Rumour Mill) about the strategy of United signing promising non-league youngsters into the Academy. I'm making the distinction between non-league kids and a) those who have come through the younger age groups of the Academy (for eg Ky Gordon) or b) those who have come into our Academy after being at other, often Cat 1, Academies (for eg Sydie Peck).

There has been a bit of excitement around the Jili & Miguel rumours. Which I will sum up as - isn't it great that United are signing these "highly rated" youngsters direct from non-league who are "being chased by other clubs". Naturally, that has got the Carrier Bag Firm going back through the recent archives to see which players we feel could have fitted into that category.

We've got;
Che Adams
Kieran Wallace
Jake Young
Jake Bennett
Ash Hall
Harry Sheppeard
Horatio Hirst
Joe Starbuck

We don't think Zak Brunt really belongs in that grouping because he'd done the rounds at professional Academies beforehand.

We also feel Iliman Ndiaye (& Ta'Shae Andell-Gibbons) really came from private Academies rather than from non-league.

Anyone else got any names to add to our To The Academy From Non-League Roll Call. Or, indeed, just general comments on the strategy.
Thanks

 

[Weasel]

Ashley Sestanovich.

Seem to recall that he started mixing with the wrong crowd later in life and did a stint after an armed robbery went badly wrong (someone died I think). Showed small flashes of potential in the couple or so appearances that he made for Utd, but never pushed on.

Plenty of rough diamonds out there in non league who are just waiting for a chance. The trick is to uncover the right ones. Are they a Diamond or Fugazi?

 

[robbiez666]

Not into our Academy, but remember signing Rob and Andy Scott from Sutton United.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

I remember at a pre season friendly at Matlock in 2019 they announced we were signing one of their young uns at half time, though thinking back that could have been Ash Hall?

In terms of the strategy itself, looking at the names mentioned throws up two immediate thoughts. The chances of the two lads we’ve signed recently making it with us, or indeed in league football are still low based on that sample size (Adams, Young & Wallace?), and the strategy only needs one success to more than cover the low risk cost of the strategy (Adams).

Interesting that of all those mentioned on this thread so far the two most successful were both signed from the same club at the same time. Wonder who first spotted Adams and Wallace?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Adams was already an England C International when we signed him. So, in that sense, he'd already been marked out as a top non league player by the FA. That puts him in the frame & must (I'm guessing) have made him easier to scout.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Kieran Wallace had been in Nottingham Forest's system, before "falling" to Ilkeston. He had played for England U17. Again, like Adams, "marking" him as an earlier outstanding youngster.

 

[Balham]

While Buyabu might well have been signed from non-league Hornchurch he was in Palace's academy until 16. Similar, in a way, to Kieran Wallace.

 

[John Cutsbushes]

I remember at a pre season friendly at Matlock in 2019 they announced we were signing one of their young uns at half time, though thinking back that could have been Ash Hall?

In terms of the strategy itself, looking at the names mentioned throws up two immediate thoughts. The chances of the two lads we’ve signed recently making it with us, or indeed in league football are still low based on that sample size (Adams, Young & Wallace?), and the strategy only needs one success to more than cover the low risk cost of the strategy (Adams).

Interesting that of all those mentioned on this thread so far the two most successful were both signed from the same club at the same time. Wonder who first spotted Adams and Wallace?

Ash Hall is at Sheffield fc now.

 

[Yogi]

RND would be one I think was on Swansea’s books as a teenager but I think we picked him up from none league. Think the same goes for Lopata went to none league after Brighton

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

So, maybe we have another grouping of recruits - left a Cat 1 Academy, then played briefly in non-league, before being recruited.

(It is certainly not worth arguing about, but my understanding is Lopata was on loan from Brighton to Whitehawk during his non-league stint)

(And I'm not sure Rhys was in non-league, I recall he was trying to resurrect at a private academy after leaving Swansea)

(But, I'll very happily stand correction on both those)

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

With Adams & Kieran Wallace, I remember thinking at the time of their recruitment that Nigel Clough probably had a strong influence. That's based on "nothing much" btw. He just seemed to know everyone in East Midlands ish football. And attended a lot of games.
I do know that he was at the game where Kieran Wallace first trialed (away at Crewe U23s) & that's when I first recall thinking it might be his influence. In my time following the U23s in recent years, Clough is the only first team manager who would turn up (occasionally, not routinely) at U23 away games.

 

[Balham]

So, maybe we have another grouping of recruits - left a Cat 1 Academy, then played briefly in non-league, before being recruited.

(It is certainly not worth arguing about, but my understanding is Lopata was on loan from Brighton to Whitehawk during his non-league stint)

(And I'm not sure Rhys was in non-league, I recall he was trying to resurrect at a private academy after leaving Swansea)

(But, I'll very happily stand correction on both those)

RND: Swansea to Kinetic Academy to United

Lopata: Bristol City to Brighton to released to United

Ndiaye: bounced around the French system (think he was at Olympique Marseille at one stage) then pitched up at Boreham Wood from whom we signed him

 

[LondonBlade89]

There has been recent discussion on threads dedicated to Jili Buyabu (General Blades Chat) & Miguel Freckleton (Rumour Mill) about the strategy of United signing promising non-league youngsters into the Academy. I'm making the distinction between non-league kids and a) those who have come through the younger age groups of the Academy (for eg Ky Gordon) or b) those who have come into our Academy after being at other, often Cat 1, Academies (for eg Sydie Peck).

There has been a bit of excitement around the Jili & Miguel rumours. Which I will sum up as - isn't it great that United are signing these "highly rated" youngsters direct from non-league who are "being chased by other clubs". Naturally, that has got the Carrier Bag Firm going back through the recent archives to see which players we feel could have fitted into that category.

We've got;
Che Adams
Kieran Wallace
Jake Young
Jake Bennett
Ash Hall
Harry Sheppeard
Horatio Hirst
Joe Starbuck

We don't think Zak Brunt really belongs in that grouping because he'd done the rounds at professional Academies beforehand.

We also feel Iliman Ndiaye (& Ta'Shae Andell-Gibbons) really came from private Academies rather than from non-league.

Anyone else got any names to add to our To The Academy From Non-League Roll Call. Or, indeed, just general comments on the strategy.
Thanks

Looked up what happened to Andell-Gibbons … that was some internet wormhole I fell down.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

RND: Swansea to Kinetic Academy to United

Lopata: Bristol City to Brighton to released to United

Ndiaye: bounced around the French system (think he was at Olympique Marseille at one stage) then pitched up at Boreham Wood from whom we signed him

I think Ndiaye is a real recruitment oddity. Just by luck, I ended up speaking to the United Recruitment Scout who recommended both him & Ta'Shae to us. Of course, I don't know Iliman's "real" backstory. But, maybe his family moved to London for "non-football" reasons & he had to start making his way again. Our Recruitment Scout told me he'd had to organise a number of games (I believe in partnership with Rising Ballers) so that the people higher up the recruitment chain could have a look. Incidentally, you could tell the immense pride he had in having recommended a player who had eventually been taken on.
My take on Iliman includes - the fact he hasn't spent long in any English system (pro or non league) is actually a bonus. He's a good footballer because no one has ever shown him how to be a footballer. I was once told that modern fighter jets are built so they can't actually fly. The flight systems constantly make adjustments just to keep them in the air. That means they can make dives & turns & shit that conventional aircraft can't. Their manoeuvrability comes from the fact they are really just falling out of the sky. I feel that way about Iliman. His unusual body position & odd centre of gravity (partly caused by those - where's me horse - legs) means he disconcerts opponents. He's also getting a bit more of a look around radar. And, he's tenacious. Lose it. Try to win it back. (Have I said I love Iliman yet....)

 

[Rochdaleblade]

John Francis. The poor mans Tony Agana.

 

[Espania blade]

There has been recent discussion on threads dedicated to Jili Buyabu (General Blades Chat) & Miguel Freckleton (Rumour Mill) about the strategy of United signing promising non-league youngsters into the Academy. I'm making the distinction between non-league kids and a) those who have come through the younger age groups of the Academy (for eg Ky Gordon) or b) those who have come into our Academy after being at other, often Cat 1, Academies (for eg Sydie Peck).

There has been a bit of excitement around the Jili & Miguel rumours. Which I will sum up as - isn't it great that United are signing these "highly rated" youngsters direct from non-league who are "being chased by other clubs". Naturally, that has got the Carrier Bag Firm going back through the recent archives to see which players we feel could have fitted into that category.

We've got;
Che Adams
Kieran Wallace
Jake Young
Jake Bennett
Ash Hall
Harry Sheppeard
Horatio Hirst
Joe Starbuck

We don't think Zak Brunt really belongs in that grouping because he'd done the rounds at professional Academies beforehand.

We also feel Iliman Ndiaye (& Ta'Shae Andell-Gibbons) really came from private Academies rather than from non-league.

Anyone else got any names to add to our To The Academy From Non-League Roll Call. Or, indeed, just general comments on the strategy.
Thanks

really enjoy reading these types of posts, keeping up to date with the Academy and what goes on behind the scenes/strategies etc are really interesting, well done and keep on keeping us informed

 

[Yewsman]

I think Ndiaye is a real recruitment oddity. Just by luck, I ended up speaking to the United Recruitment Scout who recommended both him & Ta'Shae to us. Of course, I don't know Iliman's "real" backstory. But, maybe his family moved to London for "non-football" reasons & he had to start making his way again. Our Recruitment Scout told me he'd had to organise a number of games (I believe in partnership with Rising Ballers) so that the people higher up the recruitment chain could have a look. Incidentally, you could tell the immense pride he had in having recommended a player who had eventually been taken on.
My take on Iliman includes - the fact he hasn't spent long in any English system (pro or non league) is actually a bonus. He's a good footballer because no one has ever shown him how to be a footballer. I was once told that modern fighter jets are built so they can't actually fly. The flight systems constantly make adjustments just to keep them in the air. That means they can make dives & turns & shit that conventional aircraft can't. Their manoeuvrability comes from the fact they are really just falling out of the sky. I feel that way about Iliman. His unusual body position & odd centre of gravity (partly caused by those - where's me horse - legs) means he disconcerts opponents. He's also getting a bit more of a look around radar. And, he's tenacious. Lose it. Try to win it back. (Have I said I love Iliman yet....)

I am sure there is a video of Illiman being coached by his father from a very young age.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I am sure there is a video of Illiman being coached by his father from a very young age.

That sounds more like the "little Messi" multi million YouTube hits reel of Hassan Ayari

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

John Francis. The poor mans Tony Agana.

I'll stand corrected, but by my calculation John was 25 when he signed for us. ie not really an Academy signing.

 

[Yogi]

My apologies on RND he was never contracted to a none league club we signed him after impressive outings for his school team in London a few years after his release from Swansea. Same applying to Lopata he came through the same education program as Freckleton but didn’t sign a contract with any none league side.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

(sticking just to the issue of signing - never really been in a Pro System non-league youngsters)

It's a low investment, low gain type strategy isn't it? You don't have the costs of bringing the player through from age 11. Although you do have the costs of any fee to the club involved, but that will be relatively low. But, you might have to go through an awful lot of Horatio Hirsts and Jake Youngs before you hit a Che Adams. The saving grace is you can get rid quick if it isn't working out and/or insert sell ons into subsequent contracts.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Also of interest to the Carrier Bag Firm were/are the Irish Connections (which seem to have dried up at the moment)
Jordan Doherty has just signed for Bohemians Dublin
Stephen Mallon is already there
David Parkhouse is at Ballymena Utd
Joel Coustrain is at Treaty Utd
Graham Kelly is at Larne
Conor Dimaio doesn't really count as he was born in Chesterfield

Leo Gaxha is still with us.
And Harvey Cullinan (still with us) is the one who seems to be most recent from any Irish Connection.
Any I'm missing from around those cohorts?

 

[longleyblade]

Can't help noticing jebbison hasn't been mentioned in all this. Signed from a UK trials event held in Birmingham. Where would he fit in

 

[adamawdhali]

Also of interest to the Carrier Bag Firm were/are the Irish Connections (which seem to have dried up at the moment)
Jordan Doherty has just signed for Bohemians Dublin
Stephen Mallon is already there
David Parkhouse is at Ballymena Utd
Joel Coustrain is at Treaty Utd
Graham Kelly is at Larne
Conor Dimaio doesn't really count as he was born in Chesterfield

Leo Gaxha is still with us.
And Harvey Cullinan (still with us) is the one who seems to be most recent from any Irish Connection.
Any I'm missing from around those cohorts?

Is Leo Gaxha supposed to
Be a good prospect or was supposed to be prior to injury?

 

[Yogi]

(sticking just to the issue of signing - never really been in a Pro System non-league youngsters)

It's a low investment, low gain type strategy isn't it? You don't have the costs of bringing the player through from age 11. Although you do have the costs of any fee to the club involved, but that will be relatively low. But, you might have to go through an awful lot of Horatio Hirsts and Jake Youngs before you hit a Che Adams. The saving grace is you can get rid quick if it isn't working out and/or insert sell ons into subsequent contracts.

I think maybe there’s even more nuance to it than your open post lays out. Players like Adams and Wallace were signed with a view to supplement the senior side and went straight into training with the seniors although they may have appeared for the 23’s. On the other hand more recent players such as Buyabu, Starbuck and Freckleton have been sign at least initially to supplement the academy.

I say that to say that the expectations are probably different if you’re signed to supplement the first team the expectation should be that you are able to at least contribute to that first team whereas if you’re signed to supplement the academy you just have to be of equal or better standard to those already in the academy.