Scoreline journalism??

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It was a solid performance and impressive victory at Crawley (defence excellent) but we certainly were not scintilating. We did well to beat Crawley and played well v Scunthopre. We then lost badly at home home Hartlepool. The performances we did well in I gave praise. Saturday we were awful and I gave the criticism the team deserved. Not sure how that is contradicting myself in any way? Again I call it is I see it, match to match.

If we play well I do say; read back any of our reports (Stevenage home for instance and also Notts County when we did not win but played decent I felt)

Maybe Saturday was a one off but sadly many of the performances this season suggest not (if not the results which I have stated). I think many could see that coming.

In the games you say we rarely looked like conceding; didnt Pompey hit the bar and then miss a one on one through Allen. Against Walsall, Long make a fantastic double save to deny Grigg and another player on the rebound? Not saying other teams had tons of chances but they were games that could have gone either way and most games at home other sides have had as many chances as us.

Maybe I do view United through grey tinted spectacles but many on here view things through red and white tinted spectacles. Many would turn up and watch crap no matter where and when United are playing. I probably include myself amonst that lot! However, that is not to say I cant say when it has been crap.

Maybe last season was a freak occurence but then we can go on and say so was Wigan/West Ham-Tevez, so was Chelsea-Stein/Segers...but it gets to the point where it is boring to say how unlucky we are/fate against us etc. We need to take more control of our own situations. We go down/dont go up because when it comes to the crunch we balls it up. Our record in big games is laughable. We are footballs oringnal big time chokers.

Even without Evans we had to maybe get 1 win and a couple of draws or win 2 from the last 3. We blew it. Weds took their chance and deserved to go up. Hurts like hell saying that but its the truth sadly.

We will see what happens this year. It is an awful division and you can say we arent any worse than some of the top teams. You can look at it two ways. We are currently second (although others have games in hand) but we got beat soundly at Brentford, Tranmere/Donny comfortably got a point at the Lane. We still have to go to the 1st and 3rd and 5th teams away. Indeed, Bournemouth are the only side we have beaten from the current top 6 so jury is out on whether we are better than the top teams until the end of the season. We have to prove we can beat them in the crunch 6 pointers starting tomorrow at Doncaster. Last season we could not but lets see if we can can this year?

I note your comments regarding the top 2 and saying that' talk that we wont get in the playoffs is silly and we will definately stay in the top 6'. I hope I come back at the end of the season and eat humble pie I really do but I think we will have an almighty fight jsut to stay in the top 6 come May on the current management/team and performances. Once again I hope I am wrong and we can bring 2 or 3 in, get some of the injured players like Collins, Francois and Porter back and more than anything start working hard and applying ourselves as too often in recent games I have seen we have been outworked. If we start doing the basics and winning individual battles I think man for man we are as good, or if not better than many around the top 6 but as I say we have not upped it in such games so far.
 

I think the seeds are there since Blackman went on the wing and Flynn upped his games, but we certainly aren't playing the lovely football of last season. Now with Collins and Miller out for a while, I worry that we are going to improve.
 
super_pig said:
we've 'all' seen this coming Mic.. which is why i can't understand what all the fuss is about.. actually i do on reflection .. it is because the bottom club beat us everyone's ego is bruised.. if it had been Swindon it would have been 'bad day at the office'
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It wouldn't Super, it would have been another failure to beat a half decent side. All the fuss is because SUFC should be 10 points clear in this league if managed properly. Surely you understand these are not knee jerk reactions. People seem so sure we are going up - well we aint on target for automatic promotion if you take points per game as the basis.

The football has been turgid, stupifying at times - and we have barely deserved to win 3 home games by my reckoning. Given our huge budget, if SUFC are going to be in L1 we should be playing attractive, winning football and building for a decent stab in 2nd term next term. We are miles away from that.

Sack The Pig. A boring, negative manager - whose team go completely tits up when one midfielder is out and who thinks Williams is a viable option on left midfield.
 
Ollessendro said:
You contradict yourself at almost every turn Deadbat. One minute you tell it is at is, the next you may be negative and cynial. Go back and readyour comments after Crawley/ 'solid performance, impressive victory etc'. I actually agree with you on a lot of things (it is a shite time to be a Blade) but think that you are often very harsh and you view United through some grey tinted spectacles.

I am not saying United have been wonderful at home, far from it. We have been very average I agree, but we have rarely looked like losing. The games you mentioned (Pompey, Walsall and Shrewsbury) we rarely looked like conceding and whilst it was dire stuff we ground results out. Only Crewe lead at the Lane and for less than 5 minutes. Bury shoudl have scored, but Carson made a string of saves before that. I am actually a bit disappointed that we are not more emphatic at home and we have had a bit of luck at times, but we have not been outplayed (before the other day).

We'll never agree on the match the other day, so let's leave it at that.

Last season was a freak occurence. United were on fire until their star striker went to prison. The things that contrived against us where incredible (SWFC playing almost every game before us, Evans going down, Hoskins being sent back, SWFC riding their luck in oh so many games). The Pigs got lucky big style. We did blow it, as we did not win the crucial games at the end, but on any other season in the last 30 years 90 points would have been enough.

Do I think Wilson will keep us in the top 2? I am not sure. I have said before I think he is underachieving and too negative and conservative with tactics and substitutions. However, as he delivered us to the top at the halway mark I do not see why he should not keep us up there (or thereabouts). Personally I think it is a little too close to call. I cannot see much difference between us, Tranmere, Brentford, Bournemouth, Donny, Swindon and probably Coventry and MK Dons. We are not worse than these and to suggest we will not even get in the play offs is just silly. I can understand you being a little cynical and negative, but to suggest we will fall away in this god awful division is over the top. We will definately stay in the top 6, though I fear we could fall short of the top 2. But the question as to whether the mananger and players are good enough for a top 2 finish: the anser is yes. There are big question marks over whether Tranmere, Brentford and Bournemouth can continue their form so it will be interesting to see how it pans out.
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Nice to see you bring some sense to proceedings by saying Pig is underachieving. The only issue should be by how many points we win the division by - not whether we will finish top 6, which is a perfectly sensible question looking at the dross we have collected.
 
I know you're trolling Micalijo but i have a few points.

Last season you were so strongly in favour of Danny Wilson, but you have once again resorted to the petty name calling, gone a complete 180 and are yet again calling for a manager's head!

As super_pig stated, we all knew that this would come. Last season was our best and most realistic chance to get out of this division whilst we had the wage budget and the players. For the most part they played with freedom and with some flair and when that failed, we had a 35 goal striker... until he went down.

This season was always going to be run on a shoestring. If you follow the FFP rhetoric then an even smaller budget, but if not, then we'd still have to keep wages down... plus we are not an attractive side in the Championship so can't bring in the best players. We are stuck with the Doyle's, Flynn's, Williams' of this world. mixing Kitson, KMac and Blackman with youngsters like Chapel and Miller.

Look around the division. Donny are perhaps the one team that could challenge us financially, but they're not exactly setting the division alight either.

We're one of the better sides in a very poor division and guess what, we're not playing Champagne football because we don't have the ability in the side to do that and win. Were we ever expecting to get a 10 pt gap? I certainly wasn't.

Earlier in the season we were on a decent unbeaten run, but this wasn't from playing free flowing football and scoring 30 yd screamers, it was from a solid base, maintaining shape and grinding a boring 0-0 or 1-0 out. It was promotion form though, nobody could disagree with that. But that wasn't enough. We were often scraping through.

Now we're a bit more open in our play, when the game was 1-1 on Sat, we perhaps had a few chances to get our noses in front, they had players arguing but we didn't want it enough.

So we're having a bad few weeks, when have we not had a rocky patch during a season? I agree that we need to get out of this division this season, but I don't see that changing the manager will do us any good at all.
 
Let's see then Deadbat, as regards to our league position at the end of the season. Today seemed a bit like the Walsall of last season, but we got an excellent point. We were very lucky, but showed fight and got a result. From the games against Crawley away, Scunny and Hartlepool at home and Donny away we took 7 points. Before I would have been happy with 8, but with hindsight it is disappointing we lost to bottom of the league. It is funny how it is very much the United way to grind out results away, but fook up the easiest game! I still think that players like Maguire, Kitson, Blackman and McDonald are amongest the best in the league. Long, Hill, Flynn, McMahon etc are solid. There is some promise in Kennedy and Ironside. I look at our squad and think it is very capable of getting top 2. But like you say, we will see at the end of the season.

There's not much more to say about games so far, as it is clear we disagree and will continue to do so. I think the telling factor will be what we talk about in the first para. Your argument will have more weight if we fall away, whereas my argument that we have been doing ok and deserving to win will have more clout if we carry on how we have done so far and end up in the top 2.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. We have had some terrible luck from Stein/Segers to Tevez, but we should try and take hold of situations. I was hoping we would do so this season. We are not, but that does not mean we cannot go up. I am going to leave it there for now. Hopefully we can discuss over a beer at some point during the 2nd half of the season (though I am sure we will debate before ;) ) or we can catch up about it at the promotion party (or Wembley) ;)
 
in a sense everyone is right.. as usual.. we are where we are.. i've given up on the idea of total football this season because it isn't going to happen.. we have to get out of this shit division ASAP and haven't got the staff to football our way out (and like Mic says McCabe isn't going to put his hand in his pocket any time soon so that isn't going to change)
however we 'will' have to switch back to proper football in the championship or we will come straight back down again so it will come at some point.. it will have to.. probably not this season though
its going to be dull and at times tedious but we'll have to grin and bear it .. again.. honestly.. why do we put up with this shit.. what is it about football that we have a worse team than last year and seem to be in a better position.. now that 'is' weird
the sooner you get over it the better you feel.. total football postponed until 13-14 due to lack of interest (from chairman)
 
Sorry, but I feel the need to come back your earlier points Deadbat. I just watched the highlights of the Hartlepool game.

At one nil they miss a very good chance which could have buried us. After Flynn flashes a shot just wide, that Kitson is inches from getting on the end of. Then Blackman forces a good save from their keeper and the ball drops to a defender, when it could easily have fallen to a United forward. Doyle then scores and after Maguire blasts over when he should have done better. The decisive moment is Flynn's goal which was not offside. I watched several times and it should have stood. United would probably have gone on to win easily afterwards, but it was not to be. Hartlepool then score a soft goal through Piggy Humphries and then add another soft one. Maguire scores late on.

Had Flynn's goal rightly stood or had United taken the lead through those clear cut chances, then the game would have been very different. Hartlepool, brittle on confidence, would have probably crumbled. Football matches are often won and lost on fine margins and it was not to be. However the game could easily have been very different. Again, I am not arguing it being a poor result and poor performance, but we could easily have been coming away and saying 'fuck me we were shit today and rode our luck. We should be beating teams like that easily? Still, 3 points and top of the league'. The 3-1 scoreline made it look worse than it actually was and hence my suggestion of scoreline journalism.
 
Couldn't agree more it was a bad result, but it was just that... Not a sign of great demise, not a disaster. YES in theory we should beat sides like Hartlepool and usually in practice we do, but teams fighting for their lives, backs against the wall sometimes come up trumps.

Take Donny away, 0-2 down with a threadbare side, you even said 'game over' (we all muttered it to ourselves), against a better side in the division you'd think we wouldn't come back from it. Some were even questioning Danny Wilson's halftime team talk and we referred to our players and manager as spineless in the shout box. I questioned Danny's record with substitutions... But a penalty and a sending off and we got back into the game. Football changes like that, we all know it and you're right about the scoreline journo's...

Nobody is suggesting that all is rosy in the Bramall lane garden, but we showed fight v Donny which wasn't there v Hartlepool. Christmas has been good and bad. Points mean prizes, 8 points from 15 isn't too bad, but it's not spectacular either... But that said 2 of the teams are fighting for top slot (Donny have a game in hand and perhaps could've been above us), 1 was top 6 and 2 are fighting relegation... We can spin that how we like
 
Everyone keeps going on about the sending off turning the game, it was said several times on P & G last night. I reckon we would still have equalised. The penalty made us step up a gear which resulted in the second goal. He was sent off on 87 minutes, we scored on 89 and there were 5 minutes of added time. Hardly a game changer Paynters going off
 
Northyorksblade said:
Everyone keeps going on about the sending off turning the game, it was said several times on P & G last night. I reckon we would still have equalised. The penalty made us step up a gear which resulted in the second goal. He was sent off on 87 minutes, we scored on 89 and there were 5 minutes of added time. Hardly a game changer Paynters going off
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I was saying the same at the radio on the way home, it's not like he was a big defender or the keeper... By that stage we'd already resorted to banging it into an area and throwing everything (mainly Ironside) at it.

Made little difference for me.
 
Northyorksblade said:
Everyone keeps going on about the sending off turning the game, it was said several times on P & G last night. I reckon we would still have equalised. The penalty made us step up a gear which resulted in the second goal. He was sent off on 87 minutes, we scored on 89 and there were 5 minutes of added time. Hardly a game changer Paynters going off
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Spot on. A smoke screen for Donny imploding. They missed chances and should have won the game easily before any controversial decisions. As soon as the goal went in I was sure United would equalise. We started to turn the screw and cause problems as soon as Ironside was. The sending off was a non event. we would have scored anyway. Donny were under the cosh and had already bottled it before Paynter's challenge. Any complaints are just sour grapes from Donny fans.

Watching the highlights they could and should have won the game. They missed a great chance from a corner (heading wide) and Hume hit the post and Long made a brilliant double save from the rebound. However I thought it was a pen (he clearly pulled Ironside's arm and then bundled him over). The sending off was harsh, but it did not matter. United would have scored anyway. The 2nd might have been scrappy, but fuck it. We were out of luck against Hartlepool (perfectly good goal disallowed) but got a bit of luck against Donny. It was looking bleak at 4:30, but suddenly a bit of fight and a couple of goals and things are looking a hell of a lot better.
 
Foxy said:
I was saying the same at the radio on the way home, it's not like he was a big defender or the keeper... By that stage we'd already resorted to banging it into an area and throwing everything (mainly Ironside) at it.

Made little difference for me.
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I wasn't at the game, but surely it prevented them from having an attacking outlet to give them breathing space
 

The thing that concerns me is we will not often get away with showing up for the last 15-20 minutes, if we can put Donny under pressure at the end why don't we start like that ? Another game where Wilson got it wrong or bottled it maybe ? Luckily the players dug him out of a hole otherwise he might have been facing a shitstorm losing at Donny on top of the Hartlepool debacle.
 
metalblade said:
The thing that concerns me is we will not often get away with showing up for the last 15-20 minutes, if we can put Donny under pressure at the end why don't we start like that ? Another game where Wilson got it wrong or bottled it maybe ? Luckily the players dug him out of a hole otherwise he might have been facing a shitstorm losing at Donny on top of the Hartlepool debacle.
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I bet you were fecking gutted in that last 20 minutes!
 
metalblade said:
The thing that concerns me is we will not often get away with showing up for the last 15-20 minutes, if we can put Donny under pressure at the end why don't we start like that ? Another game where Wilson got it wrong or bottled it maybe ? Luckily the players dug him out of a hole otherwise he might have been facing a shitstorm losing at Donny on top of the Hartlepool debacle.
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I just can't see how you can accuse Wilson of bottling it. He brought in 2 inexperienced teenagers, started with a back 4 where the only player who'd played on Saturday changed position and dropped the 3 worst players from Saturday. On top of that he changed his regulation 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 (which I think only Bergen Blade suggested before the game.) To me this again showed how he'd thought about the major changes that needed to be made to protect the inexperienced defence.

Then you suggest he was lucky that the players dug him out of the hole. Surely it was Danny's decision to put Ironside on. I think most recent managers (Blackwell or Adams for example) would have just stuck Cresswell on rather than another teenager and made the usual excuses after the match.
 
You can imagine Chelsea's message board this morning: "Losing to the bottom of the table is a disgrace... Benitez should be sacked now... No way are we good enough to stay in the Champions League places..."

Meanwhile, QPR's message board is surely warning that "last night's win merely papers over the cracks".

Yep, football fans - they are all the same.
 
Northyorksblade said:
Everyone keeps going on about the sending off turning the game, it was said several times on P & G last night. I reckon we would still have equalised. The penalty made us step up a gear which resulted in the second goal. He was sent off on 87 minutes, we scored on 89 and there were 5 minutes of added time. Hardly a game changer Paynters going off
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Dean Saunders said Paynter would've stood in front of the free kick which eventually led to the 2nd meaning we couldn't lump it into the box!! Haven't heard a manager so close to tears since last time I listened to Dave Jones.
 
cooperblade said:
Dean Saunders said Paynter would've stood in front of the free kick which eventually led to the 2nd meaning we couldn't lump it into the box!! Haven't heard a manager so close to tears since last time I listened to Dave Jones.
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On a slighly tangential point, on the Sky highlights of the Doncaster game, the commentator refers to Dave Jones as the United manager.

Oh dear.
 
Northyorksblade said:
Everyone keeps going on about the sending off turning the game, it was said several times on P & G last night. I reckon we would still have equalised. The penalty made us step up a gear which resulted in the second goal. He was sent off on 87 minutes, we scored on 89 and there were 5 minutes of added time. Hardly a game changer Paynters going off
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Doncaster have said they won't appeal Paynter's red card as there isn't sufficient video evidence. Could've sworn that Dean Saunders said he'd seen the replay after the match and therefore knew the red card was unjustified?

Surely he wasn't just making stuff up?
 
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