Rocking Horse Droppings

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http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/lockdales/catalogue-id-2893138/lot-19868156

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Football programme - Sheffield Utd v Bradford City, a Rare 8 page programme for 1st season after war. This match played 7/12/1918. (1) Rare

Estimate:
£80 - £90
 
Cheets said:
Why does it say 'Saturday next, Dec 14th'? Was that to advertise the date of our next home game?
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To get everyone completely confused, we played Bradford City on the 7th and Bradford PA on the 14th...
 
Very poignant, given that Armistice Day fell this week, to thnk that this must have been one of the first home games after the end of WWI, and possibly the first visit to Bramall Lane after returning from service for many soldiers and possibly some of the players?
 
Cheets said:
Very poignant, given that Armistice Day fell this week, to thnk that this must have been one of the first home games after the end of WWI, and possibly the first visit to Bramall Lane after returning from service for many soldiers and possibly some of the players?
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...and I would imagine that there would be a huge number of people who played/watched the pre-war games that did not survive to see the first games following the Armistice.
 
georgebernardshaw said:
...and I would imagine that there would be a huge number of people who played/watched the pre-war games that did not survive to see the first games following the Armistice.
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Yep, in the Hatters, Railwaymen and Knitters book mentioned elsewhere, he mentions the "Bradford Pals" who were recruited and decimated in similar fashion to the Sheffield ones.
 
Sorry Wapping I'm going to be pedantic & I mean no disrespect. 'Decimated' in my book means killing 1 in 10. So (I emphasise) for me, using the word is to unintentionally underestimate the massacre.

I say 'in my book'. I looked it up in the OED and was surprised to read that you are not in a minority in using the word the way you do. Anyone else think it seems wrongly used here, if not may be its just me....?
 
vorpal blade said:
Sorry Wapping I'm going to be pedantic & I mean no disrespect. 'Decimated' in my book means killing 1 in 10. So (I emphasise) for me, using the word is to unintentionally underestimate the massacre.

I say 'in my book'. I looked it up in the OED and was surprised to read that you are not in a minority in using the word the way you do. Anyone else think it seems wrongly used here, if not may be its just me....?
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No worries mate, I usually enjoy a bit of pedantry but while aware of its literal meaning I'm used to using and seeing it in its wider use. I certainly would not seek to underestimate the massacre.
 
vorpal blade said:
Sorry Wapping I'm going to be pedantic & I mean no disrespect. 'Decimated' in my book means killing 1 in 10. So (I emphasise) for me, using the word is to unintentionally underestimate the massacre.

I say 'in my book'. I looked it up in the OED and was surprised to read that you are not in a minority in using the word the way you do. Anyone else think it seems wrongly used here, if not may be its just me....?
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You are fighting a losing battle. Whilst decimating originally and literally means losing 1 in 10 (from the Latin for ten), it now just means killing a lot.
 
Cheets said:
Very poignant, given that Armistice Day fell this week, to thnk that this must have been one of the first home games after the end of WWI, and possibly the first visit to Bramall Lane after returning from service for many soldiers and possibly some of the players?
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They didn't demobilise that quickly !

In any event the war didn't officially end until the Treaty of Versaillies was signed the following year. There was only an armistice until then. The Allies kept up their blockade of Germany until the treaty was signed and most of the armed forces were kept on until the war officially ended; the Germans did seriously did contemplate not signing, which would have started the war up again.

Lots of war memorials state that the Great War was 1914-19 rather than 1914-18.
 
Central Statistics Office in 1920s

"956,703 fatalities, of which 39,527 were RN/RFC/RAF - of these, 704,803 were from the British Isles."

British army lost over 500,000 in France and Flanders alone.
 
Going slightly off topic, and back to the Original posting, although a nice addition to any collection, I dare say that it can't be put in the rocking horse doo-dah section of Blades programmes.

It isn't particularly rare, something that is borne out with the estimate. Compared to a lot of clubs United were quite prolific when it came to producing programmes from this era. A lot also depends who the opposition is.

There are two United/Chelsea 1954/5 programmes currently for sale on ebay, again not particularly rare, but well sought after, and both will go for more than the 1918 Bradford one.

If you've got a United v Wolves 1946/7, ........now you would be talking wooden droppings :cool:
 
Sharrowblade said:
Going slightly off topic, and back to the Original posting, although a nice addition to any collection, I dare say that it can't be put in the rocking horse doo-dah section of Blades programmes.

It isn't particularly rare, something that is borne out with the estimate. Compared to a lot of clubs United were quite prolific when it came to producing programmes from this era. A lot also depends who the opposition is.

There are two United/Chelsea 1954/5 programmes currently for sale on ebay, again not particularly rare, but well sought after, and both will go for more than the 1918 Bradford one.

If you've got a United v Wolves 1946/7, ........now you would be talking wooden droppings :cool:
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How much does the West Ham 1963 one go for these days?
 



Billy Gillespie had broken his leg in September 1914 and didnt recover for a long time (he was forced to miss the 1915 FA Cup final). When he returned to the United side after the war, many fans didnt recognise him as he had become bald!
 
Darren said:
How much does the West Ham 1963 one go for these days?
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Ah yes the West ham, it can vary considerably, but its not as valuable as perhaps it once was, a few years ago it may have fetched between 80 and 100. But, a number have turned up in recent seasons, there have been two come up for sale in the last 6 weeks on ebay, one went for £70 and one went for £22. If the £22 one was genuine then the buyer has himself a bargain.

The true value probably lies somewhere in between (about £55).

Buyers have to be wary that its not a copy, if in doubt the feel of the paper should give you an good idea, there won't have been many preserved in pristine condition.

Earlier this year, this one came up for auction

Sheffield United v spurs 1901 Cup final.jpg Now that is the poo!
 
Sharrowblade said:
Ah yes the West ham, it can vary considerably, but its not as valuable as perhaps it once was, a few years ago it may have fetched between 80 and 100. But, a number have turned up in recent seasons, there have been two come up for sale in the last 6 weeks on ebay, one went for £70 and one went for £22. If the £22 one was genuine then the buyer has himself a bargain.

The true value probably lies somewhere in between (about £55).

Buyers have to be wary that its not a copy, if in doubt the feel of the paper should give you an good idea, there won't have been many preserved in pristine condition.

Earlier this year, this one came up for auction

View attachment 6601 Now that is the poo!
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It's the only "proper" home programme I don't have since the 1962-63 season (I count "proper" programmes as League, FA Cup and League Cup).

I could go to £55 @:-)

Let me know if you see one...
 
Is there any particular reason why the West Ham programme is so expensive?

(btw I heard Dimbleby use decimated to mean more than 1/10th got killed recently, I suppose I knew then that the game was up)
 
vorpal blade said:
Is there any particular reason why the West Ham programme is so expensive?

(btw I heard Dimbleby use decimated to mean more than 1/10th got killed recently, I suppose I knew then that the game was up)
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The West Ham game tookplace amidst the bad winter of 1962-3, there hadn't been a game in sheffield, the Lane or the Sty for over two months. The pitch was covered in snow and ice and United thought a routine pitch inspection on the morning of the game would conclude that the game was off. To the Club's surprise the referee said the game could go on, they hadn't expected it to and had told the printers that this was the case. The secretary had to hastily type up a small number of single sided sheets. How many were printed is always open to debate, 150 is a number I've heard before, but there is no proof of this.

It was one of only 11 games (I believe to be played that day).

Some West ham players were reported to be wearing basketball boots (whatever they were) instead of football boots. They won 2-0, typical, they were cheating even then :mad:
 
The front page of the Green Un, 16th feb 1963 (well half of it)

5889085790_11545ea3e4.jpg
 
Thanks Sharrow, there's always a story behind this sort of thing. (You're kidding about the Basketball Boots aren't you? its what we used to call the things like Chuck Taylor AllStars by Converse). They were your default trainer in the 50s and early 60s, pre Gazelle, pre Rom. just read you are 47

Sounds like Blades v Villa a while back in the Cup. It was live on TV on the Sunday, the United players consummate professionals to a man decided on the Saturday that it was so snowy that there was no way the game would be played and headed to the pub.

Do-Gooder fans turned up with shovels on the morning of the sabbath, cleared the snow and the game was on.

(doh)

United didn't stand a chance, least of all Don Hutchison who was substituted in the first half for crapping himself (allegedly) or perhaps just the possibility of it happening. Don was never a lad to do things by halves!
 
Last edited:
georgebernardshaw said:
For those of you who value rarities, check this out

Match Programme - Sheffield United v Bradford City - 7th December 1918

Lockdales of Ipswich - Sale 16th/17th November 2013 - Lot 906

www.lockdales.com

OR www.the-saleroom.com
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Went for £70 plus commission so around £85 all in.

as mentioned the Sheffield United and Chelsea 54/5 went for:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sheffield...Q3BxGe5YfDd8cz6F3gZuw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

and, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sheffield...Q3BxGe5YfDd8cz6F3gZuw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

still, the world has gone bonkers as can be clearly seen with these offerings:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Match-Att...a_Football_Memorabilia_ET&hash=item3f2bd754e5 :tumbleweed:

or, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231089508767?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 :eek:
 
vorpal blade said:
United didn't stand a chance, least of all Don Hutchison who was substituted in the first half for crapping himself (allegedly) or perhaps just the possibility of it happening. Don was never a lad to do things by halves!
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i heard he was still pissed from the night before. that was the Dwight Yorke chipped penalty game where some folks took it upon themselves to chant naughty things about the Serbian(?) diving b**tard that won the penalty .. who me guv?? ;)
 
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