Men on the Post

[Melton Blade]

Burnley who are usually v strong defensively had men on Both posts for that Fulham corner... and Brady still managed to balls it up!! Why on earth can't we put one there?

UTB

 

[pommpey]

No idea why it isn't in vogue these days. An attack on the ball from a corner requires a very quick reaction from the keeper from short distance, with a lot of ground to cover. Man-on-post covers a quarter of the goal each end with the 50% covered by the keeper. Both players must be quick to recognise when the ball leaves the area perpendicular with the goal live they are mobile and diving the attack line out to activate offsides and don't leave their positions if the ball leaves the box back into the crossing zone.

Of course, the keeper needs to be switched on as well. Which is another topic.

pommpey

 

[Gavlar]

Partly it's just not fashionable at present for whatever reason. I don't like it personally.

 

[Geordie Blade]

Partly it's just not fashionable at present for whatever reason. I don't like it personally.

It’s not “for whatever reason”. It’s based on thousands of hours of analysis. The data show that’s it’s more efficient to have extra men challenging for headers than on the line.

In short, having men on the posts would stop some goals. But having extra men in the box stops far more. That’s why almost no teams in the top leagues anywhere in the world take that approach.

 

[CornwallBlade]

It’s not “for whatever reason”. It’s based on thousands of hours of analysis. The data show that’s it’s more efficient to have extra men challenging for headers than on the line.

In short, having men on the posts would stop some goals. But having extra men in the box stops far more. That’s why almost no teams in the top leagues anywhere in the world take that approach.

You stop all this research based factual analysis bollocks right now. It has no place on a forum- Booooo Lets all go to the pub

 

[Champagneblade]

It’s not “for whatever reason”. It’s based on thousands of hours of analysis. The data show that’s it’s more efficient to have extra men challenging for headers than on the line.

In short, having men on the posts would stop some goals. But having extra men in the box stops far more. That’s why almost no teams in the top leagues anywhere in the world take that approach.

That's based on certain relative assumptions, aggregates and averages though isn't it?

For us, who had pretty much Egan and McBurnie as the only ones who win clean headers defensively, I'd just say that approach doesn't work. We are on the low side of winning those initial headers supported by how many we've conceded from set plays. Get O'Connell back in there and Berge and I'm onside once more (no pun intended).

So, yes, overall stats say on average you do better without them, but as we are not average at one of the key assumptions to make his work, I'd be revisiting that one.

We also have a number of small, and I mean really small players. Having an extra header when that is Fleck or Osborn. I'd have someone like that on the post instead of supposedly competing for headers they simply have zero chance of winning.

 

[Tarqs]

It’s not “for whatever reason”. It’s based on thousands of hours of analysis. The data show that’s it’s more efficient to have extra men challenging for headers than on the line.

In short, having men on the posts would stop some goals. But having extra men in the box stops far more. That’s why almost no teams in the top leagues anywhere in the world take that approach.

Whilst I understand your angle here, I dont think any amount of analysis can possibly be conclusive.

If a header goes in by the post, you can say a defender on the post stops that as a matter of fact.

If guys on the post and a header goes in, you can't possibly sat that if he was in the 6 yard box instead he would have prevented the goal.

 

[wizadry]

I’d love to see the analysis of a bunch of midgets in the box challenging for headers and balls going in near the posts because that’s basically what it feels like when we defend corners most of the time.

 

[Melton Blade]

Sean Dyche obviously doesn't get taken in by the analysis data and he has big guys to challenge in the air unlike our midgets.

 

[Geordie Blade]

Whilst I understand your angle here, I dont think any amount of analysis can possibly be conclusive.

If a header goes in by the post, you can say a defender on the post stops that as a matter of fact.

If guys on the post and a header goes in, you can't possibly sat that if he was in the 6 yard box instead he would have prevented the goal.

I didn’t say it was conclusive. No data analysis is ever conclusive!

However, the analysis looks at, say, 10,000 corners that had men on the posts, and 10,000 corners That didn’t, and looks at the % within each that led to a goal. Then, an analysts can say what level of confidence they’d take in their conclusion (“we are 99.7% sure that...”).

I’d also take issue with your statement that a man on the post will stop it as a matter of fact. A surprisingly high % still go straight past defenders who just don’t react fast enough. Or handball it and get sent off.

 

[Geordie Blade]

That's based on certain relative assumptions, aggregates and averages though isn't it?

For us, who had pretty much Egan and McBurnie as the only ones who win clean headers defensively, I'd just say that approach doesn't work. We are on the low side of winning those initial headers supported by how many we've conceded from set plays. Get O'Connell back in there and Berge and I'm onside once more (no pun intended).

So, yes, overall stats say on average you do better without them, but as we are not average at one of the key assumptions to make his work, I'd be revisiting that one.

We also have a number of small, and I mean really small players. Having an extra header when that is Fleck or Osborn. I'd have someone like that on the post instead of supposedly competing for headers they simply have zero chance of winning.

It’s definitely true that different teams should adopt different strategies, based on their available resources. However, I don’t think SUFC are that far away from other teams in set-up. The shorter players like Fleck already have roles protecting the short corner or half-clearance.

 

[Tarqs]

I didn’t say it was conclusive. No data analysis is ever conclusive!

However, the analysis looks at, say, 10,000 corners that had men on the posts, and 10,000 corners That didn’t, and looks at the % within each that led to a goal. Then, an analysts can say what level of confidence they’d take in their conclusion (“we are 99.7% sure that...”).

I’d also take issue with your statement that a man on the post will stop it as a matter of fact. A surprisingly high % still go straight past defenders who just don’t react fast enough. Or handball it and get sent off.

Yeah I surmised that was how they'd do the analysis as it's the only method really. Yep true, there's some seriously bad post defending at times.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Burnley who are usually v strong defensively had men on Both posts for that Fulham corner... and Brady still managed to balls it up!! Why on earth can't we put one there?

UTB

Its a common dlimenma....with pro’s and con’s.
Think it’s significant that most teams DON’T have anyone of the post......so by definition most experts on this subject believe it’s a disadvantage.
I suppose it depends on the quality of your keeper and the aerial strength of your defenders.

 

[Webding]

How many threads do we need on this?

Actually, I guess we’ve now got one for each post. Try scoring from a corner now, Fulham.

 

[Maidenhead]

I was on the post for eleven years before I retired if this helps.

 

[JT89]

Looks like someone's been reading the forum Fleck on the back post for Liverpools first corner

 

[jono_t2000]

Anyone else notice Fleck standing on goal line at back post for their corners?

We actually haven't conceded from a corner for a while now..

Oh gawd I've only gone and dunnit ain't I