Mail is wrong or Weir Deluded

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

alcoblade said:
I know this antagonises, but again I suggest that this is a result of you not seeing us play, and not realising just how appalling we are right now. We can agree he should get more time, but a full season no matter what ?- not a chance

UTB
Click to expand...

Ooooh the sweeping assumption that I haven't been and haven't seen. You should ask Raul how much of the Colchester match I spent head in hands stating how god awful we were and how we had so much further to fall. Also how it was Brandy and 10 other pub players etc etc. Can I count the other match because I watched that on the Tele or do I have to be there in person to really feel the pain properly?

If you knew me you would know I totally believe in giving people the full season. We appointed him 3 months ago, so I am thinking that 3 months ago the people who appointed him thought the sun shone out his arse. If you are capable of joining a company that was rotten to the core (remember how shit our last manager apparently was) and making it work after 3 months you should be knighted for your services.

This is a larger than life project where a club that has been utterly starved of investment for 5 years and had anything decent asset stripped from it needs help. The investment has just arrived and was too late for Wier to actually do anything with it. So we are pedestrian and aren't very good right now. Problem is, some seem to think we should/would hammer everyone in this division. That we shouldn't be here. We are here and we aren't very good but you can't blame the new guy for that. The blame (see my lengthy we are here because........) lies 100% at McCabes feet. If this new investor can start to put it right then its going to take time. Is Weir right for this? I don't know but what I do know is that firing a bloke 6 games into his managerial career after sacking the previous manager 5 games from the end of the season is heaping more pain on top of us. If we have to get relegated to bounce back then I for one wouldn't be utterly surprised.

Sorry to paint a real bleak picture but I have believed for some time we are far worse than any of us think we are, and it hasn't been managers to blame (not since Robson anyhow).

But please feel free to kick my points into the long grass because my recent blade loyalty points aren't up there with some.
 

In all my years of Blades internettery, I'm struggling to think of anything as stupid as the suggestion of sacking David Weir based on his first 9 hours of league football.

Maybe Beattie's alloys?

fwiw, I always expected a slow start with a gradual improvement towards/post xmas and maybe a flirtation with the play-offs.
 
Presty said:
In all my years of Blades internettery, I'm struggling to think of anything as stupid as the suggestion of sacking David Weir based on his first 9 hours of league football.

Maybe Beattie's alloys?

fwiw, I always expected a slow start with a gradual improvement towards/post xmas and maybe a flirtation with the play-offs.
Click to expand...

You’re right. Sacking Weir after only six league matches is a stupid suggestion.

Equally stupid is the suggestion (from some) that we give him 2 or 3 years to get things right regardless of results and performances.
That we hope against hope that he will build a great team without any track record suggesting that he’ll be able to.
That the Assistant Coach to Everton U21’s will almost overnight gain the knowledge and experience required to build a Premiership team from scratch.
That we basically throw away our “once in a lifetime” opportunity to become an established Premiership club and maybe even win something.

I’d give him 3 more players, 1 more experienced assistant and 2-3 more months. That’s good sense not stupidity.
 
Presty said:
In all my years of Blades internettery, I'm struggling to think of anything as stupid as the suggestion of sacking David Weir based on his first 9 hours of league football.

Maybe Beattie's alloys?

fwiw, I always expected a slow start with a gradual improvement towards/post xmas and maybe a flirtation with the play-offs.
Click to expand...

You weren't here for Walcott on loan then? ;)
 
presty said:
fwiw, I always expected a slow start with a gradual improvement towards/post xmas and maybe a flirtation with the play-offs.
Click to expand...
That was my feeling Presty. Much better to run into form at the end of the season - for the last 2 campaigns we've limped over the line in poor form, and in poor shape to tackle the play-offs.
I was confident Weir would get it right gradually, but now I'm not so sure - we don't seem to be making progress. Now we're pinning our hopes on a few loans, which is somewhere we said we wouldn't go only a few short weeks ago...
 
BerksBlade said:
That was my feeling Presty. Much better to run into form at the end of the season - for the last 2 campaigns we've limped over the line in poor form, and in poor shape to tackle the play-offs.
I was confident Weir would get it right gradually, but now I'm not so sure - we don't seem to be making progress. Now we're pinning our hopes on a few loans, which is somewhere we said we wouldn't go only a few short weeks ago...
Click to expand...

Hopefully the situation has changed a little and these can be loans with a view to permanent deals in January. Makes a big difference if that is the case, playing for contracts rather than a doss about for a few weeks!
 
Bladesway said:
Ooooh the sweeping assumption that I haven't been and haven't seen. You should ask Raul how much of the Colchester match I spent head in hands stating how god awful we were and how we had so much further to fall. Also how it was Brandy and 10 other pub players etc etc. Can I count the other match because I watched that on the Tele or do I have to be there in person to really feel the pain properly?

If you knew me you would know I totally believe in giving people the full season. We appointed him 3 months ago, so I am thinking that 3 months ago the people who appointed him thought the sun shone out his arse. If you are capable of joining a company that was rotten to the core (remember how shit our last manager apparently was) and making it work after 3 months you should be knighted for your services.

This is a larger than life project where a club that has been utterly starved of investment for 5 years and had anything decent asset stripped from it needs help. The investment has just arrived and was too late for Wier to actually do anything with it. So we are pedestrian and aren't very good right now. Problem is, some seem to think we should/would hammer everyone in this division. That we shouldn't be here. We are here and we aren't very good but you can't blame the new guy for that. The blame (see my lengthy we are here because........) lies 100% at McCabes feet. If this new investor can start to put it right then its going to take time. Is Weir right for this? I don't know but what I do know is that firing a bloke 6 games into his managerial career after sacking the previous manager 5 games from the end of the season is heaping more pain on top of us. If we have to get relegated to bounce back then I for one wouldn't be utterly surprised.

Sorry to paint a real bleak picture but I have believed for some time we are far worse than any of us think we are, and it hasn't been managers to blame (not since Robson anyhow).

But please feel free to kick my points into the long grass because my recent blade loyalty points aren't up there with some.
Click to expand...



Excellent post - but you really need to get over your hang ups about attendance :)

It's been a factor before (unless I'm mistaken) that you have been a distance away and not managed to attend and I think it's a factor that you have to see our lack of progress to believe it. It's not a question of Bladeyness, just logistics.

Anyway - I agree that we aren't very good, but some context is required. It's almost the same squad that made the play-off's, and probably stronger. It's taking a Robson-esque performance to take this bunch so far backwards, poor as though they are.

I cannot accept that Sheffield United, backed by new money on top of an already strong budget and the ability to sign new players, need to drop to England's 4th division and rub shoulders with Accrington Stanley, before we can demand progress. No manager should be offered such soft targets, even without our backing.

The style of play we are trying to implement is not a distance away from what we've tried for the last 2 years. Our piss poor form can and should be laid at the feet of the new manager, albeit with the breathing space new manager should get.

No club in England would offer the space you are suggesting, given our current set-up.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
Excellent post - but you really need to get over your hang ups about attendance :)

It's been a factor before (unless I'm mistaken) that you have been a distance away and not managed to attend and I think it's a factor that you have to see our lack of progress to believe it. It's not a question of Bladeyness, just logistics.

Anyway - I agree that we aren't very good, but some context is required. It's almost the same squad that made the play-off's, and probably stronger. It's taking a Robson-esque performance to take this bunch so far backwards, poor as though they are.

I cannot accept that Sheffield United, backed by new money on top of an already strong budget and the ability to sign new players, need to drop to England's 4th division and rub shoulders with Accrington Stanley, before we can demand progress. No manager should be offered such soft targets, even without our backing.

The style of play we are trying to implement is not a distance away from what we've tried for the last 2 years. Our piss poor form can and should be laid at the feet of the new manager, albeit with the breathing space new manager should get.

No club in England would offer the space you are suggesting, given our current set-up.

UTB
Click to expand...

In fairness I never mention it unless someone uses it as a stick.

Perhaps there should be a sliding scale of understanding like how many games have you played yourself? After all to understand the game properly perhaps you need a couple of hundred games under your belt? :)
 
Bladesway said:
In fairness I never mention it unless someone uses it as a stick.

Perhaps there should be a sliding scale of understanding like how many games have you played yourself? After all to understand the game properly perhaps you need a couple of hundred games under your belt? :)
Click to expand...

Bryan Robson had many hundred's of top level games under his belt. Hmm.......... :)


Anyway, it only takes common sense, not experience, to suggest that United doing what every other club would do under the circumstances suggests that that would be normal behaviour.

I don't think you need to be a Pro to suggest that allowing an unproven manager years of failure, based on nothing more than hope, doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Given a manager with a previous track record, your standpoint would have a bit more merit. If you're honest and think it through, I think you'd concede it doesn't.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
Bryan Robson had many hundred's of top level games under his belt. Hmm.......... :)


Anyway, it only takes common sense, not experience, to suggest that United doing what every other club would do under the circumstances suggests that that would be normal behaviour.

I don't think you need to be a Pro to suggest that allowing an unproven manager years of failure, based on nothing more than hope, doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Given a manager with a previous track record, your standpoint would have a bit more merit. If you're honest and think it through, I think you'd concede it doesn't.

UTB
Click to expand...

It takes a season plus to build a team. Particularly a revolution the type we are trying to undergo. The investment does make a difference because now we should expect to see better players through the door. The one thing we don't do however is start looking at changing Manager right now. It's going to be a situation under review and if we carry on like this we will have to look at things with a more critical eye. I don't think we will though. I think things will click and we will improve. There are better players coming in.

Bear in mind that even from last seasons mess the top scorer has left and the best player was sold only a month ago. To make that lot better is going to take some doing.

When you look at the mess that is Football wouldn't you suggest that just because everyone else is doing it, most of them are doing it wrong outside the top tier? Chopping and changing is proven not to work. Its one of the main reasons we are where we are. Perhaps being brave and toughing it out is the right way forward.

To keep sacking managers at every turn is crazy. Its breaking the club. Of course if we don't see progress there could need to be changes but Weir isn't doing what Robson was, he is totally changing the club, the team and the playing staff. Robson could use most of what he had because it was good enough. He just happened to be shit at it.

I don't know for sure whether he is the right man, I don't know if he is the future but if we go around bulleting everyone every 5 minutes we aren't going to get better managers but worse ones.
 
If he doesnt get anybody in before Saturday his position will be on dodgy ground come 5pm if when we lose.
No good signing someone at the last minute on Friday and expect miracles
 
stannyblade said:
If he doesnt get anybody in before Saturday his position will be on dodgy ground come 5pm if when we lose.
No good signing someone at the last minute on Friday and expect miracles
Click to expand...

So you would suggest firing him 7 games into his first season?
 

Bladesway said:
I don't know for sure whether he is the right man, I don't know if he is the future but if we go around bulleting everyone every 5 minutes we aren't going to get better managers but worse ones.
Click to expand...

Seperate point, I accept - but I don't think a hire and fire policy affects your ability to attract managers. In fact, I think it posibly has the opposite effect. Either way, in a world where you get paid for 2 years work for only completing 6 months, it's not the manager who loses out but the club.

In football, it's about money and not much else. Pay it and they will come. Don't and they wont.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
Seperate point, I accept - but I don't think a hire and fire policy affects your ability to attract managers. In fact, I think it posibly has the opposite effect. Either way, in a world where you get paid for 2 years work for only completing 6 months, it's not the manager who loses out but the club.

In football, it's about money and not much else. Pay it and they will come. Don't and they wont.

UTB
Click to expand...




There are so many possibilities when a club has foreign money to call on.
Foreign money can have a worldwide reach that homespun teams can only dream about.
That includes overseas players, coaches and managers which English owners ignore.
If it goes right we could be in for an exciting time.
Which successful English team has only home grown players.
That is my reading of the possible future for us.
 
stannyblade said:
If he doesnt get anybody in before Saturday his position will be on dodgy ground come 5pm if when we lose.
No good signing someone at the last minute on Friday and expect miracles
Click to expand...

Word about town is that someone has been training with the team already over the past few days and will be announced on loan towards the end of the week to maximise the 93 day loan ruling.
 
Bladesway said:
So you would suggest firing him 7 games into his first season?
Click to expand...
No I wouldnt but we all know the short comings of the current squad playing the new formation and if he hasnt done anything to change that then I do believe some fans will turn on him.

I do not want him to go by the way.
 
Wards said:
Word about town is that someone has been training with the team already over the past few days and will be announced on loan towards the end of the week to maximise the 93 day loan ruling.
Click to expand...


Any idea who that someone is?
Are there any spies down at the academy these days?
 
Wards said:
Word about town is that someone has been training with the team already over the past few days and will be announced on loan towards the end of the week to maximise the 93 day loan ruling.
Click to expand...
A signing tomorrow would allow availability for 14 December. Before tomorrow and they would not be. If it was a loan with a view to permanent, then it would need to wait another couple of weeks.
 
MobileBlade said:
A signing tomorrow would allow availability for 14 December. Before tomorrow and they would not be. If it was a loan with a view to permanent, then it would need to wait another couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

Lets face it they fucked up not signing enough in the transfer window.
 
stannyblade said:
Lets face it they fucked up not signing enough in the transfer window.
Click to expand...

I agree it would have been much better if we had landed our preferred targets before the close of the window. Coventry wouldn’t play ball (or rather accept our offer).

We have three options now although a) can be combined with b) or c)

a) Sign decent out of contract players. We then don’t need to worry about the 93 day loan period although fitness will probably be an issue which might lose us 2 to 3 weeks anyway

b) Sign decent loanees by this Friday, most likely with an option to sign permanently on January 1. The risk is the side is depleted again for 3 games over Christmas. The additional risk is they get injured in the 2 to 3 weeks they have back at their club

c) Sign decent loanees on September 27 which will cover us through to all games including Tranmere on Sunday 29 December. It means we don’t strengthen for the next 2 upcoming games

I think it’s important to try and start turning results around now, so I would go for b) supplemented with a) if there are good candidates around. I suspect the club will go for c) meaning our existing non performers have a chance to improve things in the next 2 games.

Whatever we do they have to improve what we already have. We haven’t had a good track record on that in recent years.
 
I think it'll be a mixture of b and c.

Personally I'd plump for waiting a couple of weeks but the need to get some points on the board is growing evey week.
 
I would guess if its b then surely they won't play for their parent club.
 
raul said:
You a big fan of the global warming thread too Lamps?
Click to expand...
Never been a fan of Daily Mail - wasn't Samuels one their reporters during the Tevez fiasco and tried (partly successfully) to blacken our name and not the innocent west ham board.
 
What money? The investment was purposely announced after the closure of the transfer window for fear of being ripped off by the Cheltenham's and Morecambes of this world.

I personally am not going to drive an Aston Martin tonight! Call me stubborn, call me old-fashioned, call me proud, but I'm going to stick with my Fiat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom