Loyalty Point Gripe (again) - your views/poll

[Ollessendro]

This morning started off swimmingly. I slept til about 10am and then whilst drinking a coffee I rang up the ticket office. I was buzzing after a few minutes of 'let me hold you' and 'welcum t sheffield united football club .... please owd' almost pushed me over the edge. It was not long before I got through. Unfortunately I did not get 'Mrs Sheffield United' and spoke to another lady ....

.... However I was told by the operator I cannot buy tickets for Charlton today, despite me being a supporters club member. I suggested to the young lady that the website indicated that today the tickets were available for supporters club members, super draw members and 2'500 loyalty points. I was told that, despite me having a membership, I did not have enough points (I have 2'200). I was under the impression that it was open to members today. Indeed, checking the website (http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/AwayMatches/0,,10418~1085946,00.html) it suggests that either members, super draw mebers or (non members with) 2'500 loyalty points can buy tickets today. I have just rang back and another lady confirmed that I cannot buy tickets until tomorrow, when the tickets go on general sale.

My suggestion: I understand the need for a loyalty points system (though I have issues with how it is set up) but this just seems silly. I paid £20 for membership at the beginning of the year. Charlton will be my 10th game of the season (despite me living in London) and I will hopefully get to another 7 or 8 games. I am happy to fund the club by buying memberships, but wondered what is the point in me having one, if I have to wait until general sale to buy tickets? I am treated no differently to someone who has not been to a game for 10 years (or is not even a fan and fancies watching the game) and just calls up on general sale day. This kind of system does not make me feel valued in the slightest. I asked the 2nd operator how many tickets left and she informed me we'd only sold 300. This just adds insult to injury.

I have complained (again) to the ticket office and I thought I would put up a thread and see what people think. I will probably share this with the ticket office. I have suggested a more sensible (im my mind) system, as detailed below, but would be interested to see what others think.

I understand the need for a tiered system for games such as Wednesday away, Chesterfield, Scunthorpe and possibly Huddersfield (depending on number of tickets available) or any grounds that give us less than a 1000 tickets. However I question the need to use this system for every away game. I have complained to the ticket office before, but it still goes on. As we have only sold just over 1/10 of Charlton tickets, I wonder if there are any lessons learnt from this. I have also just booked Bury tickets. A similar system was used for these and they've been on general sale for a week or so and we've only sold a few hundred. For the lions share of away games why not offer tickets to people with over 10'000 loyalty points for a few days, then 5'000 for a few days, then members for a few days and then after that on general sale? It does not have to be exactly like this, but something like that would work better. I remember the ticket office doing this before and it seemed to work well. I am sure that season ticket holders and die hard Blades with 1'000'000 loyalty points, would join exiled Blades and 'part timers' in saying that this is a fairer, more sensible system. What do others think?

Another option might be to completely revolutnise the system. This will be more controversial, but it works with other clubs. For example Chelsea start their loyalty points afresh at the start of the season. Loyal fans, such as season ticket holders, get preference as they get points for season tickets/memberships and then they build points for that season.

So, I have set up a poll. The options are
1) keep the system as it is
2) change the system somewhat in line with Olle's suggestion
3) revolutionise the system (points start at the beginning of each season)

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I was debating it in the pub pre-match. At this level, it's completely pointless, and it just discourages the casual fan (Who we should be looking to make it easy for so we can turn them into a non-casual fan.

Didn't see much wrong with the old system to be honest. If you've got a season ticket you've got first dibs (And i would add that you can buy a ticket for a non-season ticket holder, so that you can take your wife/GF mate etc.), if you don't have a season ticket then tough it out with the proles.

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

I would also add, that the scenario you're decribing olle (with regards the pointlessness of memberships if you've not got loads of loyalty points) was debated at length pre season. If you went out and still bought one, well taht's you just being daft

 

[Wapping Blade]

The wording on the website is very unclear and there doesn't seem to be any point in having a membership if you have to wait until General Sale (at one stage I thought you *had* to have a membership to buy away tickets but think it got changed).

I would take it further (Uncle Richard?) as it seems to be a cock-up and they don't know what they're doing.

 

[bricktop]

Olly, if you looked at this first it would have saved you the hassle of a telephone call.



http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/AwayMatches/0,,10418~1085946,00.html

I think the loyalty point system should stay exactly as it is, it is not ideal and has it flaws, but what it does is protect the interests of the people who go home and away most weeks. I've been going long enough to have an high amount of loyalty points, and it protects the interests of people like me who have a season ticket every year, go to the cup games where there are less than 10,000 rattling around the Lane, and do quite a few away games across the course of a season.

It is easy for you to use, just wait until your allocated day to buy your tickets and get them then.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

It's an old debate Olle, whichever system you have, some will lose out, some will gain when maybe they shouldn't. I agree that it wouldn't hurt to re-visit the scheme and maybe re-think every few years as there are some who are now over the hill and gone as far as points are concerned and no-one can get a look in when it comes to away games. Having said that, if they have gone consistently over a period of time then they deserve it, that's the point. I actually think the system is pretty good and let's face it, most who want a ticket can generally get one for all but a handful of games each season. You're right, it doesn't favour the casual away supporter but then again why should it ? I think there's room for improvement, certainly where families are concerned where parents have to wait when their kids don't have as many points for example.

Could be worse, my mate's been a season ticket holder for 35 years at Blackpool, seen them fight off re-election and all sorts over that time and has had to go into a raffle for a Fleetwood ticket next week !

 

[Highbury_Blade]

No it doesn't brownie, as those people will likely have a season ticket and hence get first dibs anyway.

---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

It's a system that discourages fans from buying in groups, as to get a group all sat together, you'll all have to wait until the least loyal person (For want of a better phrase) gets the opportunity to buy a ticket

 

[bricktop]

At the top end, it separates the season ticket holders, meaning for a game like Wednesday away it's done on a fair basis.

You can argue all you like against the system but it protects the people who stump up over £300 up front for their season ticket in the summer months.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

It also protects those that had a season ticket five years ago, but have only gone on and off for the last couple of years, against the new season ticket holders that have been going home and away for the last 2 seasons. Whose loyalty is more deserving?

 

[raul]

No it doesn't brownie, as those people will likely have a season ticket and hence get first dibs anyway.

---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

It's a system that discourages fans from buying in groups, as to get a group all sat together, you'll all have to wait until the least loyal person (For want of a better phrase) gets the opportunity to buy a ticket

This. I don't think I've ever not got a ticket for a game I've wanted to go to - even Piggery tickets sometimes reach general sale - but it just put the mockers on regular away travel for a number of people I know when you spend the game scattered to the four corners of the away end.

No system is ever going to satisfy everyones requirements, but the club should make things a little clearer to either/both fans and staff over the membership issue though. Other than that all you need to do is ring up again tomorrow, I think it's probably taken you longer to write the poll up than it will to pick up the phone again.

 

[bricktop]

Both deserve their loyalty rewarding, but if your not happy about someone who has had a season ticket 5 years ago but not been since then it does need tweaking, but overall the system is good. Probably the best way of doing this would be through a rolling system, where people keep their points from the last 3 seasons, and lose the points from the season before that every summer, that way people who went to a lot of games 4 or 5 years ago but don't go now, lose their place in the pecking order to those who have become regulars in the time in between. It doesn't really matter to me, as over the last few years i will have always been pretty high with loyalty points, and not really moved anywhere in the pecking order.

I think by and large the system is good, because in the past i have missed out on match tickets because of the system that was in place then, most notably the Liverpool semi in 2003 where the club gave first dibs to ST holders and allowed them to buy an additional 3 tickets per ST holder, which meant that when my mate went down in the afternoon to get mine, it was reduced to 1 per ST holder, but if it had been a loyalty point system in place i would have got one straight away. The other occasion was for the Derby game at Hillsborough in 2006 where it was open to all ST holders on the same day, and i went down with 4 or 5 season tickets of my mates as well to get all our tickets, and the club was swamped with queue's going all round the ground and i missed out, despite holding a ST and going to the vast majority of games that season. I wouldn't ever want an anarchic, arcane system like we had then, because then it was the people who are protected now who lost out in a big way.

To be quite honest i think Olly's rant is more based on the fact that he rang up on the wrong day, rather than any significent flaws in the system. For a group of friends going to Charlton it will be quite easy for them to get tickets all together, so there is no validity in arguing over a game like Charlton where everyone who wants a ticket will get one in a debate over loyalty points.

 

[axel smeets]

But you'll get a ticket for Charlton regardless Olle. I don't see your point.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

i think the point is that the club should have given everyone who bought a membership enough loyalty points so that they could get tickets on the day before genreal sale. Otherwise what was the point of forking out on the membership.

My personal opinion is that the message regarding memberships and away ticket purchasing was deliberately confused in order to panic fans into buying memberships. Remember the original message from the club pre-season was that you HAD to be a member (or season ticket holder )to purchase away tickets.

 

[ghandi]

It also protects those that had a season ticket five years ago, but have only gone on and off for the last couple of years, against the new season ticket holders that have been going home and away for the last 2 seasons. Whose loyalty is more deserving?

If a ST holder stops going then he/she will not accumulate points many points by going to the odd game. They will eventually be overtaken by someone who has become a regular ST holder. You can judge whether to wait to buy until the person with the fewest points in your group and whether there'll be any tickets left. Wanting to sit with a group of friends should be one of the last considerations of wanting to support your team.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

If a ST holder stops going then he/she will not accumulate points many points by going to the odd game. They will eventually be overtaken by someone who has become a regular ST holder. You can judge whether to wait to buy until the person with the fewest points in your group and whether there'll be any tickets left. Wanting to sit with a group of friends should be one of the last considerations of wanting to support your team.

Funny, when i go to see United, i mainly see it as a good opportunity to see friends.

 

[Ollessendro]

I complained to the ticket office and they actually got back to me and told me they were wrong. They called me up, apologised and sold me the tickets. That is one occassion of many in the above, where Mr Brown either gets confused, misses the point or just gets his facts wrong. Did you actually read the post Brownie? I know you have a bit of an axe to grind, but come on. All that I am seeing from you is 'I don't like Olle'. But I guess I always had you down as one of these who moans when 30k turn up and is saying 'bloody part timers, were where they when 9k turned up under Basset in 1994/1995'

What I am suggesting is that it is changed for most games. Wednesday, Chezzy, Scunny and Huddersfield it probably makes sense to keep the system as it is (though Highbury's point stands). Does noone think it is a bit silly that the Charlton tickets went on sale 10 days ago and a member still cannot buy a ticket, despite only 300 tickets being solid. All it seems to do is frustrate people.

Under the system I propose (e.g. members with 10'000 points get first dibs for 3 days, members with 5'000 get dibs for 3 days, members get dibs for a few days before a general sale) season ticket holders, die hards, away every week etc still get the priority. It is just less frustrating for 'part timers'.

At the end of the day, the club should protect the people it values the most. If this is pleasing season ticket holders and the lions share, then they could stick with it. Jim makes some salient points and states that it should not be set up to make it easier for a small number of exiled away fans. That is fair enough. I completely take that on the chin. What I was trying to suggest was a system that everyone would be happy with. If season ticket holders and the die hard every weekers don't want it changing, then who I am to argue. I will just get a little frustrated and wait until the day before general sale.

 

[ghandi]

Pub before and after and at half-time?

In answer to Highbury's point re meeting friends.

 

[JohnDenver]

were where they when 9k turned up under Basset in 1994/1995

Do you mean Heath and the Port Vale game?

If so, I was there. As I like to point out at every possible opportunity.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Going by the poll results it doesnt appear to be a problem.

 

[bricktop]

I complained to the ticket office and they actually got back to me and told me they were wrong. They called me up, apologised and sold me the tickets. That is one occassion of many in the above, where Mr Brown either gets confused, misses the point or just gets his facts wrong. Did you actually read the post Brownie? I know you have a bit of an axe to grind, but come on. All that I am seeing from you is 'I don't like Olle'. But I guess I always had you down as one of these who moans when 30k turn up and is saying 'bloody part timers, were where they when 9k turned up under Basset in 1994/1995'

.

You seem to like pigeon holing people in to categories without knowing what they are really like.

As it happens, i was there when 9k turned up under Bassett in 94/95, i was there for the Port Vale, and i have seen the vast majority of games at Bramall Lane for the last 25 years.

 

[Ollessendro]

You seem to like pigeon holing people in to categories without knowing what they are really like.

As it happens, i was there when 9k turned up under Bassett in 94/95, i was there for the Port Vale, and i have seen the vast majority of games at Bramall Lane for the last 25 years.

I was there under Basset too. However when I went to six form college I had to start working Saturday's and hence missed the joy of Heath.

Going by the poll results it doesnt appear to be a problem.

Indeed. Appears I am just one of those marginal grumblers!?

 

[SwissBlade]

Surely the loyalty system is MORE important at this level as it shows who the true fans are who support through the tough times and not just the premier league and upper end of the championship years.

The only change that I suggest is that whilst we're down in the shit, more bonus points should be awarded to recognise those that travel to places like Rochdale, Carlisle, Torquay etc.

Sadly as it stands ollie, there's no easy way of changing it mid season.

An away season ticket or a London season ticket mightve been a clever option for the club to think up in the summer given that there are a few who can get to the London games more easily

 

[Ollessendro]

Surely the loyalty system is MORE important at this level as it shows who the true fans are who support through the tough times and not just the premier league and upper end of the championship years.

The only change that I suggest is that whilst we're down in the shit, more bonus points should be awarded to recognise those that travel to places like Rochdale, Carlisle, Torquay etc.

Sadly as it stands ollie, there's no easy way of changing it mid season.

An away season ticket or a London season ticket mightve been a clever option for the club to think up in the summer given that there are a few who can get to the London games more easily

Fair enough Swiss. Though I was not suggesting getting rid of the system, more a tweak. For most of the away games, somply changing the categories. E.g. now it is day one 15'000 points, day 2 14'000 points ...... day 8 5'00 points ...... day 11 general sale. All I am saying is to change the bands. E.g. days 1,2 and 3 more than 10'000 points, days 4 and 5 more than 5000 points, days 6, 7 and 8 all members, from day 8 general sale.

As far as I am aware then we've only sold out our allocation for Chezzy and Scunny. We'll sell out for Wednesday and possibly Huddersfield. All other games (bar possibly Exeter if it comes down to the crunch) could have a simpler system, with a smaller number of tranches.

Clearly I am barking up the wrong tree, as this seems to be an issue for a tiny minority. Plus, I have my Charlton ticket now. Only 300 sold is extremely disappointing for such a big game. Even in difficult economic times and straight after Christmas. I can only hope we continue the good form, make some ground on them and set up a big clash. That would hopefully get a few more heading down to the capital. That and BT firing some in!?

 

[WorkingtonBlade]

My personal opinion is that the message regarding memberships and away ticket purchasing was deliberately confused in order to panic fans into buying memberships. Remember the original message from the club pre-season was that you HAD to be a member (or season ticket holder )to purchase away tickets.

Well, it certainly worked on me. It was clearly stated at one stage pre-season that you had to have membership to buy tickets for away games. I don't remember ever seeing anything saying that had changed, and when I rang up to buy my first set of away game tickets I asked whether it was correct that I had to buy the membership to buy the tickets. I was told that it was. I therefore bought the membership.

Can I get a refund on the membership, I wonder?

Quite honestly, I don't mind donating a few quid to the club, and if I'd done it voluntarily that would be fine. I don't much like feeling as if I've been conned out of my money though...

 

[SwissBlade]

Fair enough Swiss. Though I was not suggesting getting rid of the system, more a tweak. For most of the away games, somply changing the categories. E.g. now it is day one 15'000 points, day 2 14'000 points ...... day 8 5'00 points ...... day 11 general sale. All I am saying is to change the bands. E.g. days 1,2 and 3 more than 10'000 points, days 4 and 5 more than 5000 points, days 6, 7 and 8 all members, from day 8 general sale.

As far as I am aware then we've only sold out our allocation for Chezzy and Scunny. We'll sell out for Wednesday and possibly Huddersfield. All other games (bar possibly Exeter if it comes down to the crunch) could have a simpler system, with a smaller number of tranches.

Clearly I am barking up the wrong tree, as this seems to be an issue for a tiny minority. Plus, I have my Charlton ticket now. Only 300 sold is extremely disappointing for such a big game. Even in difficult economic times and straight after Christmas. I can only hope we continue the good form, make some ground on them and set up a big clash. That would hopefully get a few more heading down to the capital. That and BT firing some in!?

The thing is that the club can't make policy for the minority, but minority support or not, it needs to be addressed somehow to enable the loyal fan groups living/ from other parts of the country to stand a chance, whilst not hindering those that travel more frequently.

A few years ago the exiled blades in Amsterdam and the Hague set up the "BEE's" (blades exiles and expats) which focused on blades abroad having a bit of a collective voice. It seemed to work well at the time and the lads that set it up (along with the forum) got some decent communication set up with the club.

My suggestion would be to get together with other London / southern blades and get in contact with the club, perhaps as a supporters club.

Alternatively, you could text me and use my points, although this will only serve to boost my points and you wouldn't benefit

 

[Bladeloyal]

if your owt like a blade you would have loads of points .points for home matches add up on a match by match basis.im afraid if you havnt got 2500 points now after the schemes been running for years then ive no sympathy.no time at all for part timers

 

[bricktop]

Fair enough Swiss. Though I was not suggesting getting rid of the system, more a tweak. For most of the away games, somply changing the categories. E.g. now it is day one 15'000 points, day 2 14'000 points ...... day 8 5'00 points ...... day 11 general sale. All I am saying is to change the bands. E.g. days 1,2 and 3 more than 10'000 points, days 4 and 5 more than 5000 points, days 6, 7 and 8 all members, from day 8 general sale.

As far as I am aware then we've only sold out our allocation for Chezzy and Scunny. We'll sell out for Wednesday and possibly Huddersfield. All other games (bar possibly Exeter if it comes down to the crunch) could have a simpler system, with a smaller number of tranches.

Clearly I am barking up the wrong tree, as this seems to be an issue for a tiny minority. Plus, I have my Charlton ticket now. Only 300 sold is extremely disappointing for such a big game. Even in difficult economic times and straight after Christmas. I can only hope we continue the good form, make some ground on them and set up a big clash. That would hopefully get a few more heading down to the capital. That and BT firing some in!?

Keep it as it is, that way everybody knows where they stand, and it doesn't cause anyone any hassle. You've still got your Charlton ticket, so your happy, the loyalty system hasn't hindered you.

To be honest i don't know why you don't try and get a season ticket, if you book early enough there are generally always good deals available on trains up to Sheffield on a saturday morning and back down again. That way you'll build up some loyalty points, enjoy some real ale in the likes of the Sheffield Tap and the Rutland, and if you go to roughly over 15 home games you'll save a bit as well.

 

[Bladeloyal]

If a ST holder stops going then he/she will not accumulate points many points by going to the odd game. They will eventually be overtaken by someone who has become a regular ST holder. You can judge whether to wait to buy until the person with the fewest points in your group and whether there'll be any tickets left. Wanting to sit with a group of friends should be one of the last considerations of wanting to support your team.

s pot on what is it with some people cant sit on their tod for 90 minutes .

 

[Foxy]

I think it works absolutely fine as it is.

I understand it can be frustrating for those with less points waiting longer to get a ticket, but the thing people seem to forget is that the club have the stats.

The club know just how many people fit into each category and can therefore make an informed decision on how to divvy up the dates/bands. This means that should everybody in the top bands buy a ticket for "match X", a certain percentage of those with most points would be guarenteed a ticket. I know I'd be pretty miffed personally if it became possible for me to miss out because the bands were changed and someone who only turned up now and again got a ticket before me. If I was on the other side of the situation, I'd completely understand if I didn't get one due to demand, dissapointed, but would understand.

I'm pretty high up in the loyalty points "standings" having been to very nearly all games home and away (missed the odd one) since the points system began and sometimes sit with the person with the highest number of points since the system began - I've never had a problem getting tickets together with mates/groups of people at all different tiers/points totals, including those who have to wait for general sale.

There had to be an unfair point where it started, but now it's been running for so long it would be much worse to change it drastically in my opinion.

 

[bricktop]

I think it works absolutely fine as it is.

I understand it can be frustrating for those with less points waiting longer to get a ticket, but the thing people seem to forget is that the club have the stats.

The club know just how many people fit into each category and can therefore make an informed decision on how to divvy up the dates/bands.

I'm pretty high up in the loyalty points "standings" having been to very nearly all games home and away (missed the odd one) since the points system began and sometimes sit with the person with the highest number of points since the system began - I've never had a problem getting tickets together with mates/groups of people at all different tiers/points totals, including those who have to wait for general sale.

There had to be an unfair point where it started, but now it's been running for so long it would be much worse to change it drastically in my opinion.

Just of interest i know someone who has not missed a United game, home or away for 30+ years, so how many would be joint top in all of this?

 

[Foxy]

Just of interest i know someone who has not missed a United game, home or away for 30+ years, so how many would be joint top in all of this?

Sadly, the previous obviously count for nothing.

Some people also have more points from going on the coaches, cup tie schemes etc. Which are completely optional and don't effect your ability to still go to and get points for fixtures.

I'm unsure of the numbers myself, but the bands obviously get smaller and smaller as you go up in points. Given that we haven't truely sold out the vast majority of fixtures since it came in, it's clearly not a problem for at least the mid-term future.

Should we become successful and start selling out everywhere, then they'd go to a percentage of the people with most recent loyalty (since the scheme began, rather than 30+ years), rather than being a free for all, so whilst some more loyal would be dissapointed, it'd be fairer than previous allocation methods.