Loans

[Linz]

The rules as I understand them are:

* Standard loans can be for half a season or a full season.

* A club can have a maximum of four players under 23 and a further four over 23 on standard loan during the season.

* A club cannot borrow more than 4 players from any one club.

However:

* Parrino and Calve don't count as they aren't domestic loans.

* Loans with a view to a permanent move don't count.

I was also under the impression that season long loans don't count towards the total of "loans" but I might have made that up

Does anyone actually know the rules because I'm trying to decipher them from the FL site and they're about as clear as mud.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

The key figure is how many you can have in your matchday squad, and i think that's five. However i don't know if Parrino and calve are included in that.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

"Loans with a view to a permanent move don't count" - surely unless there is a written agreement that they will definitely be signed, they'd have to count? As Adams said the other day, every loan is with a view to potentially make it permanent. Nosworthy's at the time was made with the view to making it permanent but surely he counts as a standard loan?

 

[bartman]

Parinno and Calve do not count as they were signed from foreign clubs

 

[Highbury_Blade]

"Loans with a view to a permanent move don't count" - surely unless there is a written agreement that they will definitely be signed, they'd have to count? As Adams said the other day, every loan is with a view to potentially make it permanent. Nosworthy's at the time was made with the view to making it permanent but surely he counts as a standard loan?

Please tell me there's nothing in his contract that enforces this.

 

[j j]

Nosworthy's at the time was made with the view to making it permanent but surely he counts as a standard loan?

Substandard loan?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

As I understand it, in addition to what Linz said;

A club can have up to 8 short term loans in any one season and no more than 4 at any given time.

A club can have up to 4 long term loans in any one season.

Maximum of 5 loan players in the matchday squad.


The actual period of a loan is still a minefield. The rules talk about a minimum of 28 days and a maximum of 93 so I can't see, for example how we could re-loan Reid for the rest of the season but apparently we can. Similarly, I can't see how we can loan Bent based on the rules as it's neither short term nor long term loan so I'm guessing there's other rules in force not mentioned on the Football League site !?!?

As it stands, we have Nos and Bartley definitely on long term (as Linz says Calve and Perrino don't count). Not sure where Mattock, Lowry and Bent fit in and we've had de Laet, Batth and Reid in on short term. We still have a bit of scope for one or two more on loan, the problem will be the 5 for match days if/when Nos regains fitness.

---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------

"Loans with a view to a permanent move don't count" - surely unless there is a written agreement that they will definitely be signed, they'd have to count? As Adams said the other day, every loan is with a view to potentially make it permanent. Nosworthy's at the time was made with the view to making it permanent but surely he counts as a standard loan?

I think you're right, they could say all transfers are 'with a view to...' and this is probably the loophole they use.

 

[Linz]

As I understand it, in addition to what Linz said;

A club can have up to 8 short term loans in any one season and no more than 4 at any given time.

A club can have up to 4 long term loans in any one season.

Maximum of 5 loan players in the matchday squad.


The actual period of a loan is still a minefield. The rules talk about a minimum of 28 days and a maximum of 93 so I can't see, for example how we could re-loan Reid for the rest of the season but apparently we can. Similarly, I can't see how we can loan Bent based on the rules as it's neither short term nor long term loan so I'm guessing there's other rules in force not mentioned on the Football League site !?!?

As it stands, we have Nos and Bartley definitely on long term (as Linz says Calve and Perrino don't count). Not sure where Mattock, Lowry and Bent fit in and we've had de Laet, Batth and Reid in on short term. We still have a bit of scope for one or two more on loan, the problem will be the 5 for match days if/when Nos regains fitness.

The FL rules don't seem to differentiate between long-term and short-term "standard" loans though.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20100801/section-6-players_2284800_2125731#50

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The FL rules don't seem to differentiate between long-term and short-term "standard" loans though.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20100801/section-6-players_2284800_2125731#50

Yep, looks like the rules I was looking at have been shredded !!

As you say, it seems as though the terms 'short term' and 'long term' have been replaced with half or full season 'standard' loans and the 8 players mentioned in the previous rules has been split to 4 under and 4 over the age of 23. In that case we've used up our 8 loans unless the 'view to a permanent' is being used.

Still doesn't make sense though, we initially got Reid in for a month and then extended it so how does that fit into the new system ?

 

[Linz]

Still doesn't make sense though, we initially got Reid in for a month and then extended it so how does that fit into the new system ?

Not a bloody scooby

Glad I'm not the only one confused.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Can we terminate any of the loans early or not? We're going to have a massive squad if not...

 

[puppet]

its a disgrace that a club such as ours has more than half a team of borrowed players. name me another team whose squad is as threadbare as ours?

 

[Rustyblade]

Yeah, that's all very well but how many other clubs have the additional expense of a hotel and a club in Chi....., oh.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

its a disgrace that a club such as ours has more than half a team of borrowed players. name me another team whose squad is as threadbare as ours?

To be fair, as with last season we've had to bring in players to cover injuries. Would Batth and Lowry have come in if Morgs and Nos had been fit, would Mattock have been needed if it wasn't for injuries to both our recognised left backs, would we have brought Bent in if Hendo had played all season ?

We've had extreme bad luck again with injuries this season and that happening for a 3rd year aside, I think we'll notice a difference next season, if only because MA won't have a choice !

 

[boo radley]

I thought it was crap having all these players on loan. The plus side is with all the uncertainty we've had at least the manager wont have the headache of ditching so many players if he does not want them. The advantage is he gets to see if the loan players may be who he actually wants before he bids in the summer for whoever.

 

[beightonblade]

when loans in the banking sector are at a premium .....we've got more loans than ever

 

[Barney Rubble]

Two big downsides to the loan system for me.

1. The constant turnover of players can result in a decline in the quality of football. You can't plan clever set pieces and complex tactical systems if the players are changing every other week. I thought the slow descent into hoofball under Blackwell was partly due to having to devise a system which constant new arrivals could understand.

2. If the player you loan turns out to be any good, you can price yourself out of the market for him. Two obvious examples for us would be Cahill and Halford, who I feel were in our price range when they arrived at the lane.

Although, of course the possibility that Nosworthy could now have a 3 year contract with us, means it might not neccesarily be a downside in our case

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Good first Post Barney, Welcome to the forum.

Your last point sends shivers down my spine.

 

[Revolution]

I would do the following to the loan system:

- Limit loans to a low number per season, possibly 4 (loaning of goalkeeper not to count)
- limit the number of players that can be loaned out
- ban season long loans. 3 months maximum duration
- no player may be loaned out twice in the same season
- no PL club may take in players on loan.

This would, IMHO, reduce squad sizes and lessen the impact of loans distorting competiton in the Championship.

None of these moves have any chance of being enacted, of course. Turkeys do not vote for Christmas.

We've had extreme bad luck again with injuries this season and that happening for a 3rd year aside, I think we'll notice a difference next season, if only because MA won't have a choice !

I disagree. I think we will continue to employ a large number of loanees until McCabe sells up or we are relegated.

 

[dingledog]

when loans in the banking sector are at a premium .....we've got more loans than ever

Also premium loans attract a high level of interest, unlike our loans!!!!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

We've had extreme bad luck again with injuries this season and that happening for a 3rd year aside, I think we'll notice a difference next season, if only because MA won't have a choice !

I disagree. I think we will continue to employ a large number of loanees until McCabe sells up or we are relegated.

You may be right but subject to anyone else coming in on a permy in the next 13 days and anyone leaving, we'll have the following squad left in the Summer based on those currently listed;

GK: Simmo, Aksalu, Long
Def: Kozzy, Jordan, France, Taylor, Morgs, Roe, Lowton, James, Conneely
Mid: Monty, Ertl, Yeates, Britton, Willo, Chappel, Squinny, McAllister, Harriott
For: Hendo, Ward, Ched, Boggy, Cressy, Slew

Obviously some will move on and a few are probably in there at the moment because there's no-one else and may not be in the full squad next season. However, we're not going to be splashing the cash around so it's likely we'll be going 'lower league' in which case why not have the likes of Chappel, Harriott etc in there if they're deemed good enough or have shown enough potential ?

I can see us shipping out a few, maybe bringing one or two decent experienced signings in and maybe a Kyle type season long but apart from that, I just think we'll go with the 'development players' and a few bargain buys ahead of loanees.

 

[bartman]

Of those you list.Kozluk,Jordan and France are out of contract in the summer. Aksalu,Ward,Evans,Simmonson,Williamson,Ertl,Bogdanovic,Yeates and Henderson are all out of contract the following summer

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Of those you list.Kozluk,Jordan and France are out of contract in the summer. Aksalu,Ward,Evans,Simmonson,Williamson,Ertl,Bogdanovic,Yeates and Henderson are all out of contract the following summer

Based on wages etc, I can only seeing us trying to tie down Willo and maybe Yeates out of those, bids accepted for the rest although Ertl is probably worth a squad place. Unless of course our Malteser remains a requirement