Jury's out on Clough

[flash-blade]

I've tried to calm down after going to Crewe on Saturday but I'm of the opinion that Clough doesn't seem to know what he's doing, I'll have patience with him but I'm worried, very worried..
We've been crying out for a forward since the start of the season, maybe two if I'm honest, defensively we are 8th in the table on goals conceded so its scoring that's our problem..
We get Paynter to put pressure on Porter!
We let Brandy and Taylor go, Brandy ill discipline needed sorting (Doyle) but just bombing him? Taylor never got a chance in a poor team.
Clough's substitutions leave me scratching my head, sometimes he doesn't react until the last 5 minutes.
The formation is shoe horning a place for Baxter and when he's off form ala Crewe, we are all over the shop.
Our keepers not good enough, just coz he came through the academy doesn't mean he gets more sympathy than the likes of Simmonson.
The team needs a total clear out including the young lads who have come through the ranks and not established themselves in 3 years.
Our players get shrugged off the ball and knocked about every game, an empty quavers bag knocked Flynn out play the last home game, lack of desire and fight.

Apart from that every things sound at Prince and the Paupers FC

 

[SwissBlade]

Sack him

 

[Grecian2000]

The team needs a total clear out including the young lads who have come through the ranks and not established themselves in 3 years.

So the team needs a total clear out, but you argue that Brandy and Taylor have been released prematurely!

Whilst agreeing with the general point (the clearing out bit), it simply isn't practical (indeed possible) to replace an entire team in one transfer window.

Williams, Westlake, McMahon, Brandy, McGinty, Cuvelier, Taylor and King have been shown the door. Players have been brought in, some players have upped their game, some are still not performing.
We need to put some results together and address the rest in the summer. Whether we've got enough to survive is debateable (I suspect even BTL has given up on automatic) but this is a work in progress and I don't think there is a better option as manager out there at the moment.

If the juries out I'm going for NOT guilty right now.

 

[SE9 Blade]

If you look at the points won under Clough (18 from 14 games) and project that since the start of the season, we would be on around 34 points and mid-table now.
Whilst I agree that that's not brilliant, if you consider where he started from (8 points from 13 games and devoid of any confidence) I think he is doing a decent job. Results and performances like Saturdays will crop up from time to time, but are highlighted because of our predicament.
A few days ago we were applauding the decent work done in the JTW and now after a bad (ok terrible) result we are wanting to scrap the whole team!

 

[beatific blade]

I do believe, no matter where we are come June, that we will stick by the manager (for once). I would hope the penny has dropped that revolving door management is not the answer to any of our shortcomings - in fact I would suggest it has only perpetuated them.

Allowing Clough to bring in his own people at a higher level than playing/coaching staff suggests to me that the board/Kev are determined to keep hold of him.

Regardless of the above, there is also this: Who the f*** else is there?! Really?!

 

[yorkshirecoast]

If you look at the points won under Clough (18 from 14 games) and project that since the start of the season, we would be on around 34 points and mid-table now.

Yes, but that it includes a lot of games against teams at the bottom - many of whom we have lost to in appaling fashion. We have improved a little since Weir left - but nowhere near as much as I hoped and expected we would. Not addressing the striker position is particularly baffling.

 

[SwissBlade]

Yes, but that it includes a lot of games against teams at the bottom - many of whom we have lost to in appaling fashion. We have improved a little since Weir left - but nowhere near as much as I hoped and expected we would. Not addressing the striker position is particularly baffling.

Who would you sign?
How much would you pay?
Would they come to us?

 

[Kev Gee]

Yeah lets sack the useless cunt!!

Its worked for us before hasnt it!

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I'm not suggesting we sack him. But nor am I blindly spouting "in Nigel we trust" at every opportunity. The biggest problems are the lack of investment and the fact that we have too many players who don't appreciate how fortunate they are to play for the Blades and seemingly don't give a toss. But Clough does need to address the striker position NOW. He also needs to start playing a more positive brand of football because we need wins - not the odd draw.

 

[pommpey]

How can the jury be out on Cluff?

Okay - put yourself in his shoes. Derby sack him, for whatever reason. Up the road, struggling Sheffield United have just ditched their frankly woeful manager after a misfiring start to the season sees them sat on the bottom of the swimming pool with the dead plasters, pubes and toenails. Their chairman, Kevin McCabe approaches you and initially you baulk, what right minded individual wants to be the latest on a tree-stand of mugs employed by a bloke who has micturated millions of his club's resources and failed dismally to employ a decent footballing manager, and supply him with the wherewithall to achieve success. But lo! An apparently wealthy sugar daddy is loking to invest his wealth in an English football team, and the chairman has talked him round into joining the business. Hey, usually in other instances (too many to mention) this handshake has resulted in one of two things: either the existing playing staff get their thumbs out of their satsumas or the cash injection fortell great talent arriving at the club, and said underperfoming players shipped out. Ask any business in the process of change management after takeover or partial buy-out. Certain entities (and they know who they are) start sweating bullets.

So the team you inherit have a death knell over their heads. Either they shape-the-fuck-up or they ship-the-fuck-out. January Transfer Window approaching and to save the board bit of face (because mr Abdullah has kindly reminded McCabe that he won't be getting the cash out at all) you broadcast that you won't be reconstructing the side until the summer because, as kind people have also reminded us on here, the best business is always done during the summer transfer window. I mean, it is hard not to agree, as McDonald was sold in that window and erm ... Blackman was sold ... erm ... never mind.

The transfer window draws to a close, and you have signed a PL reserve team bloke (the player whom he replaced almost broke the land speed record to get out of the club, so no pressure there), a Scots Bagpipe League midfielder/attacker who certainly tears up the pitch up against Tunnock Wafer Juniors and a cursory 'here you go, then' in exchange for said full back, just so that McMahon can have his locker at Blackpool. Oh and some poppo up front as competition for our own 'striker' (what a fucking term that is for Porter).

Of course, the transfer window closes, the people who believed they were doomed to be sacked/loaned out to Throstles Juniors/shot in a field up at Meadowhead are now relieved that the only people likely to take their position off them are currently playing for the reserves (if they want) and are former academy hopefuls, now aged 29. So they turn up against Div 3 high flyers Crewe Alexandra and revert to their shit state of delivery.

And Cluff can do nothing about it.

McCabe out.

pommpey

 

[SwissBlade]

I said this when we sacked Weir. What if the next guy still doesn't sort the problems after the same number of games...

I think Clough has now had as many league games as Weir and whilst we've had some chinks of light, it's been far from dazzling. I'm sure Clough would also admit that we could've done better with results, he's building something.

You can't ignore the cup games (not just villa and Fulham), they appear to offer a different mentality when we play in the cup. We play with discipline and without fear. But these games represent just four games of our season.

Clough has a lot of work to do to pick things up again, I think he needs to start getting back to basics and focussing on not conceding again. Pick up some draws again and not lose these games in hand.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Rather than keep blaming the manager - what about the players ?

• Long, despite his so-called Future England pedigree lacks the ability at present to command his area, his distribution is abysmal and he sometimes fails to do the basics
• Flynn and Murphy blow hot and cold - both could be blown over by a strong gust of wind - both appear to lack confidence - they wouldn't have been much help to William Wallace !
• Baxter is an enigma - you just are not sure which Baxter will turn up !
• Collins is past his best and his best was never very good
• If Doyle is the best holding midfielder then we have a major problem - his ball retention is rubbish
• (As Above) If Doyle is the best leader we have, then it is no surprise we are where we are in the league!
• Porter is clearly just not good enough - even for this lowly level
• Hill has always struggled at left full back
• McGinn and Coady struggle to string together two decent performances
• Maguire is ok but is slow and cumbersome and I feel will struggle to command a place in any side above Division Three

But given all the above, and the addition of Brayford, Scougal lPaynter and Harris I would have though that if they can perform like they did against Villa and Fulham they would have far too much in the locker for the likes of Shrewsbury, Crewe, Tranmere, Notts County, Stevenage and the rest of the dross in the bottom half of this league.

My belief is that the players lack the heart, passion, bottle and effort that we Blades fans expect from our players - they think they are much better than they actually are - my advice would be to the players 'Take a long hard look at yourselves and prove to the 15,000 fans that you are good enough because at present all you are showing is that you are Fourth Division standard among the has beens and never will be's !!

 

[Eskimo]

I'm a bit suprised that Clough has been so radical so soon rather than wait until we were pretty sure of avoiding relegation before wielding the axe.

A safety first approach might have been to keeep Brandy and Taylor - we might need them, they might come into form, or if he really wanted them out to replace them, but he's just brought in Paynter, and Miller is injured isn't he?.

He could have brought in a couple of experienced battling midfielders, having lost Doyle, his options in midfield were pretty limited on Saturday weren't they? And Scougall may be a fine player but he's a lightweight.

The rest of the season will be played on nasty pitches against some difficult opposition. It sems to me that if you run at us and get stuck in hard we fall over. I think the cup games have afforded the players the oportunity to express tyhemselves generally denied in the bustle of the third division. We need to toughen up Cloughy, but how?

 

[sheffielder]

I am looking at this with a level head.

With Weir, I saw the vision of what he trying to do. We brought players in who at some point last season did well in the 1st division. Baxter, McGinn, Cuvellier, Brandy and Taylor from Scotland who turned down Rotherham. By all accounts Evans is a transfer genius.

Baxter is a first choice but regressing, I think mostly because he plays too deep with no options ahead of him. McGinn plays now and again, however I think it's obvious the Clough doesn't fancy him. The other 3 were bombed out of the club. The interesting thing for me is that none of them have done any worse or any better than what Clough has chosen to hang his hat on in either Flynn, Murphy (who I rate as a striker) and Porter.

Also he has chosen to keep with Collins, Doyle and Hill on top of Flynn, Murphy and Porter and for whatever you think of them, good or bad, they are marmite.

I know that when Nigel came to the club, the dressing room was split in two between the new players and the old ones and for better or worse he has chosen to stick with the old players. Now these players don't have the likes of Evans, McDonald, Quinn, Blackman or Lowton etc; to win games from nothing. Something Baxter and co can do.

In the cold light of day Nigel has chosen the players who don't make a positive difference to results, however have a negative effect on half the fans. Now I support Nigel and hope is he for many years to come, however there must be a nagging doubt in your heads that he chose the wrong life boat.

 

[Hartley Hare]

I think recent years have shown that the continual merry go round of manager and backroom staff changes does not produce results and costs a lot of money.

HH

 

[Rodley]

I said this when we sacked Weir. What if the next guy still doesn't sort the problems after the same number of games...

I think Clough has now had as many league games as Weir and whilst we've had some chinks of light, it's been far from dazzling. I'm sure Clough would also admit that we could've done better with results, he's building something.

You can't ignore the cup games (not just villa and Fulham), they appear to offer a different mentality when we play in the cup. We play with discipline and without fear. But these games represent just four games of our season.

Clough has a lot of work to do to pick things up again, I think he needs to start getting back to basics and focussing on not conceding again. Pick up some draws again and not lose these games in hand.

The players struggle to play under pressure and their confidence is fragile.

Generally the performances have improved and we've played some decent stuff. The reality is we've got a mid-table group of players and we lack a goalscorer. But the players, I perceive, are not a particularly mentally strong group and you have to be tough to play at Bramall Lane. It's not an environment for shrinking violets or sensitive souls - hence why we don't receive many decent young Premiership prospects on loan.

Brayford can hack it and Scougall looks up for it. Matt Hill takes a fair amount of stick and still comes to applaud the fans. Maguire has had his detractors as have Collins and certainly Doyle. A few of the other players though frequently look like they are sh*tting themselves.

 

[blade too long]

We have not improved away yet, we finally won one but failed to move on from it, which is more a statement of how fragile confidence of those he inherited was, in 2 of the 3 defeats we led, and played well enough for at least a point , but Saturday old wounds opened. He , Nigel has 7 out of the next 11 games at home to rebuild the confidence, we have had only 1 home league game so far in 2014 ,dominated for most of the game then get suckered to dropping 2 points. If we win 5 of those 7 at home we can rebuild and remove the fears,its what we must believe .
We must talk like owls fans and say we havent lost at home in 2014 , bull up the positives , they are masters at it , we tend to focus on the negative

 

[ghandi]

If you look at the points won under Clough (18 from 14 games) and project that since the start of the season, we would be on around 34 points and mid-table now.
Whilst I agree that that's not brilliant, if you consider where he started from (8 points from 13 games and devoid of any confidence) I think he is doing a decent job. Results and performances like Saturdays will crop up from time to time, but are highlighted because of our predicament.
A few days ago we were applauding the decent work done in the JTW and now after a bad (ok terrible) result we are wanting to scrap the whole team!

I think this is why we will be relegated. We need an massive improvement on our points return. Bear in mind there are only 19 games left and the current points return under Clough will deliver another 24 points giving us a total of 50 points. Does anyone seriously think we will win 8 games from 19. I don't whether Clough is to blame but if we do go down he will have shoulder some of the blame as he has will have had 33 games to turn things around.

 

[MightyBlades]

NOT GUILTY !!!

Clough has a long-term project on his hands, which he has only just begun.

It will take a full 4 seasons to get this club back on its feet again, to a level where we are able to fulfil our true potential once again.

No, it's not great having to watch crap performances, or being at the bottom of League 1, but complete overhauls take time, which is what is required at SUFC.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and Clough has only just started this re-building project.

He has inherited a shed-load of crap, for which he is not responsible. You can't make gold nuggets out of steaming turds!

Give him time and space, and he will eventually get it right. Chopping and changing managers is half the reason we are where we are today. Clough getting the sack would be disastrous for the Blades!

We won't go down. of that I am sure. But what we definitely don't need right now, are loads of fans screaming and throwing tantrums, like petulant 14 year old school girls. Booing and screaming insults from the terraces, will only get the puddings in the middle of the park playing even worse, and have them making even more errors.

Support Clough and the team, and we will survive this season. The proper re-build will start in the close season, when Clough starts to bring his own men in, and gets them playing and thinking his way. The chaff will get pushed out of the way, and then we will be better equipped to make a real challenge next season.

Come on Clough - Prove the doom-mongers wrong!!





UTB.

 

[Jon Bon]

I think recent years have shown that the continual merry go round of manager and backroom staff changes does not produce results and costs a lot of money.

HH

It doesn't when you're constantly scraping the failed managers barrel in the hope of pulling out a gold nugget coated in shit amongst the complete turds in there. Instead of continually trawling the dole queue for the tacky, cheap and desperate, if KMC had spent a fraction of the money that he eventually paid out as compo, to recruit the right man for the job when Warnock was sacked, the club wouldn't have wasted all that money over the last few years and we'd probably be a lot better off for it on the pitch.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Play well against Villa and Fulham, total shite against teams at the same level. So, can play when given the time and space to play, but when they need to earn the right to that space to play, they cannot or just will not do it! Suggests too many not liking the muck and nettles part of the job!

 

[ghandi]

NOT GUILTY !!!

Clough has a long-term project on his hands, which he has only just begun.

It will take a full 4 seasons to get this club back on its feet again, to a level where we are able to fulfil our true potential once again.

No, it's not great having to watch crap performances, or being at the bottom of League 1, but complete overhauls take time, which is what is required at SUFC.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and Clough has only just started this re-building project.

He has inherited a shed-load of crap, for which he is not responsible. You can't make gold nuggets out of steaming turds!

Give him time and space, and he will eventually get it right. Chopping and changing managers is half the reason we are where we are today. Clough getting the sack would be disastrous for the Blades!

We won't go down. of that I am sure. But what we definitely don't need right now, are loads of fans screaming and throwing tantrums, like petulant 14 year old school girls. Booing and screaming insults from the terraces, will only get the puddings in the middle of the park playing even worse, and have them making even more errors.

Support Clough and the team, and we will survive this season. The proper re-build will start in the close season, when Clough starts to bring his own men in, and gets them playing and thinking his way. The chaff will get pushed out of the way, and then we will be better equipped to make a real challenge next season.

Come on Clough - Prove the doom-mongers wrong!!





UTB.

I'm sorry but why are you so sure we won't go down. The supporters pay their money and if they have to see the crap they saw on Sat they need to let the players know what they think and your statement of supporting the team and we will survive is risible given the numbers and levels of support the team have received despite wallowing in the lower reaches of the 3rd tier of English Football.

 

[blade too long]

I think this is why we will be relegated. We need an massive improvement on our points return. Bear in mind there are only 19 games left and the current points return under Clough will deliver another 24 points giving us a total of 50 points. Does anyone seriously think we will win 8 games from 19. I don't whether Clough is to blame but if we do go down he will have shoulder some of the blame as he has will have had 33 games to turn things around.

safety is around the 53 point mark
we have 26 so need 9 wins 27 points or 7 wins and 6 draws any mores a bonus
we have 11 at home 8 away
we win 6 at home half our games left draw 3 means we will need 1 away win and 4 draws or 2 wins and 1 draw

believe we will do that easily Clough will put a brake on the shite performances away , he has to

 

[SwissBlade]

I am looking at this with a level head.

With Weir, I saw the vision of what he trying to do. We brought players in who at some point last season did well in the 1st division. Baxter, McGinn, Cuvellier, Brandy and Taylor from Scotland who turned down Rotherham. By all accounts Evans is a transfer genius.

Baxter is a first choice but regressing, I think mostly because he plays too deep with no options ahead of him. McGinn plays now and again, however I think it's obvious the Clough doesn't fancy him. The other 3 were bombed out of the club. The interesting thing for me is that none of them have done any worse or any better than what Clough has chosen to hang his hat on in either Flynn, Murphy (who I rate as a striker) and Porter.

Also he has chosen to keep with Collins, Doyle and Hill on top of Flynn, Murphy and Porter and for whatever you think of them, good or bad, they are marmite.

I know that when Nigel came to the club, the dressing room was split in two between the new players and the old ones and for better or worse he has chosen to stick with the old players. Now these players don't have the likes of Evans, McDonald, Quinn, Blackman or Lowton etc; to win games from nothing. Something Baxter and co can do.

In the cold light of day Nigel has chosen the players who don't make a positive difference to results, however have a negative effect on half the fans. Now I support Nigel and hope is he for many years to come, however there must be a nagging doubt in your heads that he chose the wrong life boat.

I'm kind of with you...

Collins, Doyle, hill and porter are all players who'd run through brick walls, the dependable few if you like. They're all limited in terms of talent, but they give the 100% applaud the fans and are generally the ones you want in the battle. Doyle's discipline can be ropey, if he doesn't get caught by the ref, he's survived another game. Perhaps Clough identified these players as his stability and experience.

I'd say most of the others that were here when Clough came in are players where they'll either have a stormer or a shocker.

Bringing Brayford and Harris in could work out, but if we play a 3-5-2 like later in the game on Saturday we don't use Flynn and Murphy, we play the wing backs. So it could end up with Miller and Murphy up top with Baxter in behind. Would that work?

Despite the stance by many on here towards Doyle I don't know if the likes of Coady or Scougall are reliable enough to hold the middle, I'm not sure Doyle is either, but he's probably the more experienced and reliable.... Which says a lot.

We need that striker, whether it be Baxter, Murphy or a new loanee...

I think we have a side which is able to play many formations and styles, it just hasn't really settled on which one.

Final point. Villa and Fulham showed us to be great at soaking pressure up by being organised and hitting sides on the counter. Over the years, Man U in the 90's and arsenal more recently have shown this. Perhaps that's the end goal... We just need to work on this. Perhaps were just not set up to slowly build with possession.

 

[Grecian2000]

We must talk like owls fans

Why? Their delusions of grandeur and total inability to live with reality is what I really despise about the Pork.

Whatever we say makes no fucking difference (the Pigs are still shite despite the deluded thinking they're about to be a Premier league force) and we'll still be shite even if we all start saying we're fucking brilliant even when we've played like schoolgirls on their first period!
It's down to the manager and players to walk the walk, talking the talk gets you fuck all anywhere without that little bit.

 

[ghandi]

safety is around the 53 point mark
we have 26 so need 9 wins 27 points or 7 wins and 6 draws any mores a bonus
we have 11 at home 8 away
we win 6 at home half our games left draw 3 means we will need 1 away win and 4 draws or 2 wins and 1 draw

believe we will do that easily Clough will put a brake on the shite performances away , he has to

I wish I had access to the same drugs as you but I just cannot see where we will pick 9 wins. I hope you're right but how are we going to score enough goals to win 9 matches given we had one shot on target on Sat against the worst defence in the division.

 

[blade too long]

thats because your focusing on away games, and not seeing the bigger picture, wednesdays lifted themselves up despite only like us wiinning 1 away , have won 4 home games made them look better than they are, we have to take advantage at home simple as that
bet you didnt see us winning at villa , I didnt
It is deflating losing , imagine how west ham fans felt after a 5-0 and a 6-0 drubbing away , sam out , we arent going to score again this season , doesnt follow that though
forget the last game , start again , its called professionalism
dont wallow in misery get your heads up and go again
dont need drugs , just be positive , without that your doomed

 

[ghandi]

I'm kind of with you...

Collins, Doyle, hill and porter are all players who'd run through brick walls, the dependable few if you like. They're all limited in terms of talent, but they give the 100% applaud the fans and are generally the ones you want in the battle. Doyle's discipline can be ropey, if he doesn't get caught by the ref, he's survived another game. Perhaps Clough identified these players as his stability and experience.

I'd say most of the others that were here when Clough came in are players where they'll either have a stormer or a shocker.

Bringing Brayford and Harris in could work out, but if we play a 3-5-2 like later in the game on Saturday we don't use Flynn and Murphy, we play the wing backs. So it could end up with Miller and Murphy up top with Baxter in behind. Would that work?

Despite the stance by many on here towards Doyle I don't know if the likes of Coady or Scougall are reliable enough to hold the middle, I'm not sure Doyle is either, but he's probably the more experienced and reliable.... Which says a lot.

We need that striker, whether it be Baxter, Murphy or a new loanee...

I think we have a side which is able to play many formations and styles, it just hasn't really settled on which one.

Final point. Villa and Fulham showed us to be great at soaking pressure up by being organised and hitting sides on the counter. Over the years, Man U in the 90's and arsenal more recently have shown this. Perhaps that's the end goal... We just need to work on this. Perhaps were just not set up to slowly build with possession.

Swiss on your final point...why couldn't we soak up the pressure and hit those powerhouses of English Football such as Notts County, Walsall and Crewe on the break?

 

[SandyMcBlade]

Talk about knee jerk reaction !!!!
We play well, he's the best thing since sliced bread, we have a bad game,and it's get rid, he's taking us down.
I don't like it either and I now definitely want us out of the FA cup, because our main aim has got to be staying up and the cup appears to be far to much of a distraction for these players.

 

[SwissBlade]

Swiss on your final point...why couldn't we soak up the pressure and hit those powerhouses of English Football such as Notts County, Walsall and Crewe on the break?

Apologies, I can't answer that. As I've said, I've not seen those games, I've relied on commentary sadly. I'm only really commenting on what I've seen positively from the cup games

But for those that went, were we expected to hold possession by the opposition. Didn't we throw the lead away v notts county and Walsall? So perhaps those two were entirely different to Crewe.

I'd be interested to know what highpeakblade thought of villa, Fulham, Walsall and notts county. Did we try to play a similar way in all four or did we change our game for the L1 games? I'm discounting Crewe on this point because it sounds like as soon as we stepped on the pitch we'd lost!