GoalWatch - our defending vs Ipswich

[Bergen Blade]

1-1: Ipswich have a throw in which Quinn clears, but it is is played back out wide to Edwards, who skips past Quinn and crosses low. Walters flicks it in.

I think Quinn is too rash when tackling, considering he has nobody close to him covering (see photo). If Taylor or someone else had been covering behind Quinn, a sliding tackle attempt could have been justified. Here Quinn must close down Edwards and buy his team some time.

As Edwards skips past Quinn he finds himself in loads of space, which again pulls Killa (and now Taylor) out of the centre. This means Ipswich outnumber us at the first post and Edwards can pick out his pass.

1-2: Oh dear. A nice passing move from Ipswich, where their players roam around. Our players get confused by this good movement and don't know whether to stick to «their man», or cover their zone. In general we lack aggression.

Fast forwarding to their two last passes, Monty seems to try to block Leadbitter's pass, but in doing so overcommits himself, like Quinn did, and he's too far behind when Leadbitter gets it back from Priskin. Harper isn't covering for Monty, he's more bothered about «his man». Kilgallon has somehow dropped inside our box and is late when closing down Leadbitters's shot. Finally, Bunn let's a rather weak shot from over 20 yards mysteriously roll in.

1-3: Corner. McAuley outjumps Morgan and heads in.

 

[yuley82]

Go down to shitecliff you might get a coaching role

 

[raul]

Are you expecting Quinn to have eyes in the back of his head now? Far too harsh. You cant chastise him for diving in and then chastise people for not doing so on the 2nd Drillo.

For the first - and I sit right in line with it on the 6 yard line - the bigger concern was the number of sets of legs the back heel flick went through.

 

[Guesty]

Quinn diving in was an act of folly IMO, he seemed relieved not to have seriously injured the boy!

 

[Bergen Blade]

Are you expecting Quinn to have eyes in the back of his head now? Far too harsh. You cant chastise him for diving in and then chastise people for not doing so on the 2nd Drillo.

If he's sure that he's got cover behind him, whether that is because he sees Taylor behind him, hear him shout or knows that is the way we try to organise our defending, he can make a tackle.

Establishing the first defender (closing down or tackling) and the second defender (covering) are basic rules for zonal defending, but Blackwell seems to prefer man marking. For man marking, the first defender/marker has to first and foremost make sure his man doesn't get past him - because the system isn't about covering.


Regarding any inconsistency in my comments for the 1st and 2nd goal. Being aggressive isn't necessarily about diving in. In fact I'm criticising Monty on the same grounds as Quinn, he overcommits himself and leaves the player free to run in behind him. Same thing!

The lack of aggression that allowed Ipswich to make 7 passes in acres of space - although we have lots of players behind the ball - is more about our failure of moving feet quickly and anticipating situations. Their movement rips us to pieces, but only because we're allowing it to happen.

For the first - and I sit right in line with it on the 6 yard line - the bigger concern was the number of sets of legs the back heel flick went through

We have two men (+ Bunn) between the scorer and the goal when he flicks it. They both are probably more focused on "their men".

When analysing goals conceded I try to find out how we could have avoided the situation from becoming a goal chance. If we are only focusing on the last finish, we are accepting that the opposition is going to get chances from those situations.

 

[Ollessendro]

Thanks Bergen, spot on again.

Raul, Bergen has every right to criticise Quinn for diving in. Regardless of whether Quinny had a good game or not (I'm pleased he did) that is simply school boy defending. If he doesn't dive in then the winger doesn't have as much time to put in the great cross that he did. It was rash and it cost us. Simple as.

Second goal. Oh dear. United completely pedestrian again. We are seeing a recurring pattern here. Swansea's winner was exactly the same. It's a nice passing move by Ipswich (maybe we could learn something) but severtal times the danger could have been averted. Bergen is right to say that Monty was at fault. He over commits himself and is slow to react. Still when Leadbitter gets the return pass danger can be averted. Harper is within reach of him and with a burst of pace could have put him under pressure. Also, why the bloody hell is Kilgallon so deep. For me Killa and Harper shoudl have sprinting to put a block on Leadbitter. They didn't and he let fly. Or should I say let trickle!? That really was a pea roller. If you think that the goal conceded against Swansea was bad, then this takes the biscuit. Oh dear. My gran would have had a cup of tea and buscuits and still got dowen to that.

We have to cut out these stupid mistakes. Diving in, not tracking back, 2 players going for the same ball. It really is shambolic. It's not just the defence. Midfielders are in on it too. The reason why we've only picked up 4 points out of 12 in the last 4 games is stupid individual errors, lack of organisation and lack of effort (i.e. not closing down, standing around and leaving it to others etc).

 

[IOM Blade]

I think we all may be being a little hard on Bunn for the second goal. After watching the highlights, Leadbitter's shoot takes a deflection and Bunn, after taking a few steps the other side, is unable to adjust in time.

 

[Come from away]

Later in the game Morgs had a similar one-on-one as Quinn except once he got goalside he simply tracked the player who eventually back-tracked 10 yards outside the penalty area - Quinn could learn something from him.

 

[Foxy]

1-2: Oh dear. A nice passing move from Ipswich, where their players roam around. Our players get confused by this good movement and don't know whether to stick to «their man», or cover their zone. In general we lack aggression.

Fast forwarding to their two last passes, Monty seems to try to block Leadbitter's pass, but in doing so overcommits himself, like Quinn did, and he's too far behind when Leadbitter gets it back from Priskin. Harper isn't covering for Monty, he's more bothered about «his man».

Bergen is right to say that Monty was at fault. He over commits himself and is slow to react. Still when Leadbitter gets the return pass danger can be averted. Harper is within reach of him and with a burst of pace could have put him under pressure.

I think you are both being a little harsh on Monty, though i've not seen how much the replay covers.

Just before the phase in which you describe, Harper has stood pedestrian as his man wandered around without challenge... At this stage Monty was deeper than Harper, noticed, kept one eye on his man and attempted to close down the two Ipswich midfielders stood on their own in the middle. Play then came back out to a similar position and this time (almost identical situation) Monty took responsibility to attempt to close the man on the ball, I assume as last time around Harper hadn't took the responsibility.

This meant Monty ended up over committing and taking himself out of the game, whilst Harper continued to look on.

Taking only the direct incident into consideration makes it look like Monty is at fault and that Harper is merely looking after his own responsibility (his man)... But looking at the entire move leading up to it, my view was that Harper shirked his responsibilities somewhat, leading to him and Monty both ending up having little effect.

 

[SwissBlade]

As a defender you always learn to stay on your feet.

You only go to ground when its really necessary.

The one thing that you never do is dive in

Quinny and our midfielders have a habit of jumping in.

Monty is perhaps the only exception to the rule, as most of his job is breaking up play with last ditch tackles.

 

[Ollessendro]

Not sure I agree with you Foxy. Monty rushes at his man, checks and then gets caught out. He is left behind by a simple one - two. Admittadly Harper did not help him. He was completely pedestrian. He should have seen Monty was in trouble and (as i said in earlier post) with a bit of effort could have closed down, or made a block on, the Leicester scorer. On top of all this, when Monty was beaten for pace and Harper didn't react still Kilgallon could have come out and put pressure on. He was way too deep and sitting back allowed Leadbitter more time.

See for yourself Foxy. Starts at 49 seconds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/8283519.stm

Having watched the highlights of the second goal over and over again I think i'll concede to you IOM. The shot takes a bit of a deflection and Bunn is already moving. He would have had the original shot cover and the deflection wrong footed him and made it very difficult. I think it's harsh to say it's his fault. It would have taken a very, very good save to have stopped that. It is easy to overlook the fact that it hit Killa on the way through and this took it out of Bunn's reach. So I retract my criticism of Bunn for Ipswich's 2nd (unlike Wednesday and Swansea's 2 nd goals) I don't think this was his fault.

Swiss Blade hot the nail on the head. Defenders should never dive in uless you really have to. Its a last case resort. You have to be relly sure you are going to win the ball, otherwise it's a yellow and/or being made to look stupid/put pressure on your team mates.

 

[Wapping Blade]

Phew - I thought I was seeing things with a deflection on the 2nd goal!

 

[Foxy]

Not sure I agree with you Foxy. Monty rushes at his man, checks and then gets caught out. He is left behind by a simple one - two. Admittadly Harper did not help him. He was completely pedestrian. He should have seen Monty was in trouble and (as i said in earlier post) with a bit of effort could have closed down, or made a block on, the Leicester scorer. On top of all this, when Monty was beaten for pace and Harper didn't react still Kilgallon could have come out and put pressure on. He was way too deep and sitting back allowed Leadbitter more time.

See for yourself Foxy. Starts at 49 seconds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/8283519.stm

As I alluded to, the replays don't actually show half of the stuff i'm talking about, they cut in half way through what I describe. It's the first time I've seen them and in that particular incident it doesn't show what I described as "just before".

I'm only going off what I saw at the time, but just before the ball came back to the position the replay starts in... Ipswich had the ball in a very similar situation... which I half described.

Don't get me wrong, they are both at fault... but I think Monty was overcompensating from what happened in the passage of play just before, not an excuse for him... just what I think is the reasoning he did what he did.

 

[Micalijo]

Here I am enjoying a nice Thursday morning, when suddenly I start reading comments that 'it would have taken a very, very good save to stop it.' I really, honestly and truly cannot believe this comment from someone who makes alot of sound and interesting points.

It was a 'pea-roller' Ollie. It may have taken the slightest of deflections. IOM is claiming Bunn was significantly wrongfooted, I just don't see this from replays. He had loads of time to get across after any deflection and didn't.

 

[Guesty]

Phew - I thought I was seeing things with a deflection on the 2nd goal!

I didn't the the deflection but I definitely saw Bunn move to the right so a deflection would explain that.

 

[Wapping Blade]

I thought there was a deflection watching the highlights on Sky but it was very difficult to tell - needed a "snicko" like in the cricket

 

[DazBlade88]

Cheers Bergen, I said similar things in another thread so I'm glad someone else thought the same way too.

 

[Ollessendro]

Guesty and Wapping - I posted a link to the highlights above in a post above. The move starts at 49 seconds and shot is around 57. If you look closely then it is clear that there is a deflection.

Ha ha, I should have known you would be jumping onto this one Micalijo!? IMHO that would have taken a top class save to stop that going in the net. I have watched this clip about 15+ times and think that it would be harsh to criticise Bunn for this goal. He was at fault against Wedneday and Swansea but not here. I'll tell you one thing, if he hadn't have let in the distance shots against Swansea and Wedneday then noone would be picking up on this. Micaljo, open your mind a little and watch the video a few times. Watch it without your dislike for Bunn and then come back to me. When leadbitter hits the shot it is travelling straight down the middle of the net. It is going down Bunns throat. It then takes a significant deflection of Killa's foot at the edge of the area and flies off towards the corner. Even though the ball wasn't going at the speed of light, the fact that it was heading straight at Bunn, then flew off to his side (being deflected at the edge of the area didn't give him much time to react) made it very difficult.

Thanks for the compliment Micaljo. But I think we are going to disagree on this point. Iker Casillas or Shay given might of saved this!?