Couple more coming in this week

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Sean Thornton said:
Couple of points. The reason we aren't throwing money around is not because of Wilders philosophy, otherwise we would be buying young upcoming players from higher leagues as well. It's because we don't have the money, pure and simple.

We ARE fortunate that Chris Wilder and Alan Knill are capable - more than capable - of working under such conditions and can spot players in lower leagues. To suggest that this is actually the "plan" when it's forced on them by necessity is ludicrous. When people worry about Wilder leaving to go to a club who will give him money to spend, do they think he'll still only shop in the lower leagues and not spend big money?

The way we play is not unique to us. Many Spanish teams play exactly the same way. I was flicking between four Italian games yesterday. The Genoa game was untypical, blood and thunder, hoof and all out attacking from both sides. The other three, which included AC Milan, every team played how we try too.

Wilders plan is about signing the best players he can, gelling them into a good hardworking side to be successful. The fact that it's United, will be more in his heart than his head, which is where his decisions come from. It's football, not a Disney film.
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All very true of course but he's certainly trying to push the ethos and his passion for the club on to the players. He alludes to it interviews.

He obviously has to keep that in check at times and retain his professional head but I don't feel we can discount Wilder's Bladeyness completely in the job he's doing.

If it was just down to style of play 100% as has been suggested earlier, then Wilder wouldn't put as much emphasis on team spirit as he does, and always has done.
 



Davalon said:
All very true of course but he's certainly trying to push the ethos and his passion for the club on to the players. He alludes to it interviews.

He obviously has to keep that in check at times and retain his professional head but I don't feel we can discount Wilder's Bladeyness completely in the job he's doing.

If it was just down to style of play 100% as has been suggested earlier, then Wilder wouldn't put as much emphasis on team spirit as he does, and always has done.
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I didn't discount his passion for the club or his "bladeyness" but the blokes a professional. Don't you think his ethos was just as professional at his other clubs? His record would indicate that it was. Equally I didn't doubt his requirement for team spirit. My point was that the notion that his "plan" was just to cherry pick lower league players whilst ignoring the actuality of financial constraint is romantic nonsense.

His support of the club is a huge bonus, his abilities are what we should be grateful for.

The style of play referred to is somewhat based on team spirit. Which is clear to see.
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
I was going to do the same after yet another 'runaround' post. But couldn't be bothered as I know it'd be ignored.
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He pretends to ignore it. If you persist long enough he'll start crying and demand you're banned from the forum. Usual crybully behaviour.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Couple of points. The reason we aren't throwing money around is not because of Wilders philosophy, otherwise we would be buying young upcoming players from higher leagues as well. It's because we don't have the money, pure and simple.

We ARE fortunate that Chris Wilder and Alan Knill are capable - more than capable - of working under such conditions and can spot players in lower leagues. To suggest that this is actually the "plan" when it's forced on them by necessity is ludicrous. When people worry about Wilder leaving to go to a club who will give him money to spend, do they think he'll still only shop in the lower leagues and not spend big money?

The way we play is not unique to us. Many Spanish teams play exactly the same way. I was flicking between four Italian games yesterday. The Genoa game was untypical, blood and thunder, hoof and all out attacking from both sides. The other three, which included AC Milan, every team played how we try too.

Wilders plan is about signing the best players he can, gelling them into a good hardworking side to be successful. The fact that it's United, will be more in his heart than his head, which is where his decisions come from. It's football, not a Disney film.
Click to expand...

Shark.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Couple of points. The reason we aren't throwing money around is not because of Wilders philosophy, otherwise we would be buying young upcoming players from higher leagues as well. It's because we don't have the money, pure and simple.

We ARE fortunate that Chris Wilder and Alan Knill are capable - more than capable - of working under such conditions and can spot players in lower leagues. To suggest that this is actually the "plan" when it's forced on them by necessity is ludicrous. When people worry about Wilder leaving to go to a club who will give him money to spend, do they think he'll still only shop in the lower leagues and not spend big money?

The way we play is not unique to us. Many Spanish teams play exactly the same way. I was flicking between four Italian games yesterday. The Genoa game was untypical, blood and thunder, hoof and all out attacking from both sides. The other three, which included AC Milan, every team played how we try too.

Wilders plan is about signing the best players he can, gelling them into a good hardworking side to be successful. The fact that it's United, will be more in his heart than his head, which is where his decisions come from. It's football, not a Disney film.
Click to expand...
Just a question on your opening paragraph - is it perhaps the case that Wilder prefers experienced players? The regulars in the last 18 months have all been playing first-team football for a considerable time, especially now that Jamal and CCV are no longer automatic choices. Talented kids like Chapman and Brooks have never been regulars. The younger players he seems to prefer already have games under their belt, like Lundstram, Baldock, etc. Young, experienced, upcoming Premier League players cost astronomical amounts, beyond the reach of all but the wealthiest or most reckless PL clubs.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
Just a question on your opening paragraph - is it perhaps the case that Wilder prefers experienced players? The regulars in the last 18 months have all been playing first-team football for a considerable time, especially now that Jamal and CCV are no longer automatic choices. Talented kids like Chapman and Brooks have never been regulars. The younger players he seems to prefer already have games under their belt, like Lundstram, Baldock, etc. Young, experienced, upcoming Premier League players cost astronomical amounts, beyond the reach of all but the wealthiest or most reckless PL clubs.
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I said Champuonship players rather than PL. of course they would cost more but if he had the money to spend do you not think he'd be looking at better players because of an increased budget ? Or that promotion this year would mean carrying on shopping in L1 and 2? If he were able to raid other championship clubs for either experienced or young players, do you think he wouldnt if he had the money?
 
Sean Thornton said:
I said Champuonship players rather than PL. of course they would cost more but if he had the money to spend do you not think he'd be looking at better players because of an increased budget ? Or that promotion this year would mean carrying on shopping in L1 and 2? If he were able to raid other championship clubs for either experienced or young players, do you think he wouldnt if he had the money?
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Apologies, I was going off at a bit of a tangent, as your post set me off on a train of thought about Wilder and younger players. The promotion team of last season was very experienced, as is the core of this season's team.
You did refer to higher leagues, and as we appear to be in the process of signing 2 players from league 1 and Championship, I assumed you were referring to experienced PL players, who are incredibly expensive unless they are on the way down. I don't know whether Wilder played inexperienced youngsters at Northampton and Oxford, so I was wondering whether he prefers not to trust inexperienced kids. Nothing to do with the points you were making, so apologies for that.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
Apologies, I was going off at a bit of a tangent, as your post set me off on a train of thought about Wilder and younger players. The promotion team of last season was very experienced, as is the core of this season's team.
You did refer to higher leagues, and as we appear to be in the process of signing 2 players from league 1 and Championship, I assumed you were referring to experienced PL players, who are incredibly expensive unless they are on the way down. I don't know whether Wilder played inexperienced youngsters at Northampton and Oxford, so I was wondering whether he prefers not to trust inexperienced kids. Nothing to do with the points you were making, so apologies for that.
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No need to apologise for anything H. Valid point. I just tried to make my point clearer.
 
You know what?

I don’t care who the hell is coming in. I just trust Wilder to get on with it and make the right decisions.

Not for me to ponder “Who?”, “Why?” Or “How?”. I really couldn’t give a damn about it. He knows what he’s doing and I’ll be glad if he gets what he wants because that will be good enough for me.

No need to trawl YouTube for clips of rumoured incomings scoring some great goals 7 years ago.

No need to go searching on other fans message boards to see what they think of a player we are linked with.

It’s all bollocks. Even Florent Cuvelier looked like a world-beater on YouTube.

Don’t stress yourself. Don’t ask “where will they fit in?” Or “who will they replace?” It doesn’t matter.

Just go with the flow.

It’ll be oreight!
 



Regarding CW penchant for lower league players Newport L2 and ShrewsburyL1 haven't done so badly there are deffo players that can make the step up esp with CW and AK advice and training
Just a thought
 
Cerberus Blade said:
You know what?

I don’t care who the hell is coming in. I just trust Wilder to get on with it and make the right decisions.

Not for me to ponder “Who?”, “Why?” Or “How?”. I really couldn’t give a damn about it. He knows what he’s doing and I’ll be glad if he gets what he wants because that will be good enough for me.

No need to trawl YouTube for clips of rumoured incomings scoring some great goals 7 years ago.

No need to go searching on other fans message boards to see what they think of a player we are linked with.

It’s all bollocks. Even Florent Cuvelier looked like a world-beater on YouTube.

Don’t stress yourself. Don’t ask “where will they fit in?” Or “who will they replace?” It doesn’t matter.

Just go with the flow.

It’ll be oreight!
Click to expand...

Yes but I found out earlier today,after reading on here,that midfielder Ryan Leonard has been brought in to play at the back,I for one,am grateful to find this information out
 
pedro said:
Regarding CW penchant for lower league players Newport L2 and ShrewsburyL1 haven't done so badly there are deffo players that can make the step up esp with CW and AK advice and training
Just a thought
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Of course there are. Still difficult to find them. Wilders back room team are good at it. However since managing in league football he's never had a chance to do otherwise.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Of course there are. Still difficult to find them. Wilders back room team are good at it. However since managing in league football he's never had a chance to do otherwise.
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Meaning that this is one of the key skills that Wilder and the staff have near perfected over time, based their ethos around and therefore the platform on which their success is based on? Potentially meaning that departing too far from this model would be unnecessarily risky, unnecessarily disruptive and just straight up unnecessary in general as the current system is clearly working?
 
s4-blade said:
Meaning that this is one of the key skills that Wilder and the staff have near perfected over time, based their ethos around and therefore the platform on which their success is based on? Potentially meaning that departing too far from this model would be unnecessarily risky, unnecessarily disruptive and just straight up unnecessary in general as the current system is clearly working?
Click to expand...


Do you think buying up solely L1 and 2 players would keep us in the PL?
 
s4-blade said:
Meaning that this is one of the key skills that Wilder and the staff have near perfected over time, based their ethos around and therefore the platform on which their success is based on? Potentially meaning that departing too far from this model would be unnecessarily risky, unnecessarily disruptive and just straight up unnecessary in general as the current system is clearly working?
Click to expand...


The interesting stage for Wilder is when, not if, he takes us to the Premier League. Neither he nor us or the Board know how the manager will fare at that level.

He might carry on with the current approach but even if he does and even if he is successful, there will come a time when he is under pressure, personal and otherwise to widen his net and spend more on perceived 'higher quality players' for more money, certainly in key positions.

I see Wilder working much to Eddie Howe's model and Sean Dyche's too. They have maintained loyalty to their tried and trusted players who got them up there and able to contribute in the top tier; all individual and collective success stories. When Howe and Dyche eventually spent big money which is swishing around in the top tier, they chose players with work ethic and with plenty of room for personal development, still hungry and a lot to prove. Howe strayed a little last summer with the signing of Defoe and the summer before with Wilshere but both were not instant successes.

Even when spending more money Wilder will retain the work ethic, the group approach and the right type of characters. It will be at a level he has been nowhere near before as a manager but I don't think he'll get carried away with the club cheque book or start behaving anything like the prima-donna managers up there. He certainly will not tolerate performances like I have seen from Leicester and Arsenal this weekend and by all accounts West Ham too.

In the meantime I reckon Wilder has half an eye on the Premier League and will believe his new permanent signings will have the capacity to play in Tier 1. Players who improve us immediately and can make the next step up. Even in the Prem you don't need 11 superstars but you can't have any weak links in the squad, not just the first eleven.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Do you think buying up solely L1 and 2 players would keep us in the PL?
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Probably not no, but once you get to the PL you’re immediately hit with an obscene amount of cash so the limitations are discarded. I do think, and hope, that Wilder will stick to recruiting young, hungry, English players that will buy into the ethos and grow with the club, just that they will be of a higher quality.
 
Woodwardfan said:
The interesting stage for Wilder is when, not if, he takes us to the Premier League. Neither he nor us or the Board know how the manager will fare at that level.

He might carry on with the current approach but even if he does and even if he is successful, there will come a time when he is under pressure, personal and otherwise to widen his net and spend more on perceived 'higher quality players' for more money, certainly in key positions.

I see Wilder working much to Eddie Howe's model and Sean Dyche's too. They have maintained loyalty to their tried and trusted players who got them up there and able to contribute in the top tier; all individual and collective success stories. When Howe and Dyche eventually spent big money which is swishing around in the top tier, they chose players with work ethic and with plenty of room for personal development, still hungry and a lot to prove. Howe strayed a little last summer with the signing of Defoe and the summer before with Wilshere but both were not instant successes.

Even when spending more money Wilder will retain the work ethic, the group approach and the right type of characters. It will be at a level he has been nowhere near before as a manager but I don't think he'll get carried away with the club cheque book or start behaving anything like the prima-donna managers up there. He certainly will not tolerate performances like I have seen from Leicester and Arsenal this weekend and by all accounts West Ham too.

In the meantime I reckon Wilder has half an eye on the Premier League and will believe his new permanent signings will have the capacity to play in Tier 1. Players who improve us immediately and can make the next step up. Even in the Prem you don't need 11 superstars but you can't have any weak links in the squad, not just the first eleven.
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Dyche and Howe should be mentioned in the same context. Howe is given far more credit than is due for getting “little old Bournemouth” to the PL not saying he hasn’t done a good job but he has done it by spending far more money than Dyche and it seems to go unnoticed
 
mancunianblade said:
Dyche and Howe should be mentioned in the same context. Howe is given far more credit than is due for getting “little old Bournemouth” to the PL not saying he hasn’t done a good job but he has done it by spending far more money than Dyche and it seems to go unnoticed
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Peanuts at that level and as I said - players with development and improvement in front of them - appreciating assets. He sold Ritchie for around £12m too.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Peanuts at that level and as I said - players with development and improvement in front of them - appreciating assets. He sold Ritchie for around £12m too.
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The point I think he's making is that when they were in League 1 and the Championship, they spent well beyond their means. They broke FFP to get to the Premier League - in 2014/15 they lost £38.3 million.

Howe is a good manager, yes. But he's had a lot of money to spend. Dyche has spent comparatively little, and yet Howe is seemlingly rated more highly.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-6m-after-breaching-financial-fair-play-rules
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
Hang on, I copyrighted that one last Monday in the Ryan Kent thread in Rumours, even down to the coat. My lawyers will be in touch. I average about 2 jokes a year, so I can't afford to have any pinched.:mad:
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Sorry Hodgy, my defence is that I don’t read the rumours thread mind you, I might start, that Stevie Nicks......
 
Enigmatic said:
The point I think he's making is that when they were in League 1 and the Championship, they spent well beyond their means. They broke FFP to get to the Premier League - in 2014/15 they lost £38.3 million.

Howe is a good manager, yes. But he's had a lot of money to spend. Dyche has spent comparatively little, and yet Howe is seemlingly rated more highly.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-6m-after-breaching-financial-fair-play-rules
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Yes fully acknowledge that point. I was referring to the expenditure patterns since they arrived in the Prem and they have been modest and largely youthful. promising players with plenty of upside to come. Not sure Wilder would have fancied Ibe or Ake but they have class about them if not obvious grit and total commitment.
 
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