Cotterill, Quinn & Ched.

[GAZBLADE]

KB says Cotterill not good enough for Blades. We sell him to a team that plays very good football and he begins to shine. Paolo Sousa see's quality in Stephen Quinn which a lot of Blades don't. We sign Ched from a Prem team which tries to play decent football and he looks a lost soul.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to see that it's our style of football which would make Gerrard and Lampard look shite.
Why the f@~k did KB sign Ched Evans when really he wanted someone like Mick Harford!! He must have known the style of play he had in mind before parting with around 3 million for the boy????? Apart from the fee, the same applies to Cotterill IMO. Admittedly these players weren't regulars in the Prem but Man. City & Wigan are hardly renowned for their Wimbledon style of play.
I'm just confused as to the amount of faffing about Blackwell does bringing these players in,( James Harper also included in this) when he should have just raided Stoke's reserves in the first place and been done with it.
Roll on the summer. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[judge]

KB says Cotterill not good enough for Blades. We sell him to a team that plays very good football and he begins to shine. Paolo Sousa see's quality in Stephen Quinn which a lot of Blades don't. We sign Ched from a Prem team which tries to play decent football and he looks a lost soul.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to see that it's our style of football which would make Gerrard and Lampard look shite.
Why the f@~k did KB sign Ched Evans when really he wanted someone like Mick Harford!! He must have known the style of play he had in mind before parting with around 3 million for the boy????? Apart from the fee, the same applies to Cotterill IMO. Admittedly these players weren't regulars in the Prem but Man. City & Wigan are hardly renowned for their Wimbledon style of play.
I'm just confused as to the amount of faffing about Blackwell does bringing these players in,( James Harper also included in this) when he should have just raided Stoke's reserves in the first place and been done with it.
Roll on the summer. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

wtf are you on about ? cotterill was shit at united ,is it the managers fault that he used to shit himself everytime he got the ball ?

 

[GAZBLADE]

wtf are you on about ? cotterill was shit at united ,is it the managers fault that he used to shit himself everytime he got the ball ?

WTF are you on about??
If you read it, the point is in a team that plays football he's a player with more confidence and looks ok. We play shit hoofball therefore making decent footballers crap.

 

[judge]

WTF are you on about??
If you read it, the point is in a team that plays football he's a player with more confidence and looks ok. We play shit hoofball therefore making decent footballers crap.

well the last two games ive been to weve played very good football ,sort of killls your argument doesnt it ?

 

[GAZBLADE]

well the last two games ive been to weve played very good football ,sort of killls your argument doesnt it ?

Not really as i wasn't trying to start an argument.
I was merely trying to say that IMO our style of football isn't suited to the more finesse like players.
I've not got a problem with KB playing a style of football which he thinks is going to be effective for us.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Gaz I agree with you, from what I've seen cotts looks far more dangerous for Swansea than he did for us

 

[Blade]

judge not sure why you're trying to start a row about this - to say the last two games we've played good football so the point is moot is ridiculous. Nearly every blade I know and am likely to know would agree that we've not played 90 minutes of "good football" more than a handful of times in the last two seasons. I also think that although much improved in the last two home games we still have some way to go before many will be convinced that we are capable of regularly playing good football under Blackwell.

I'd say it was mainly the managers fault that Cotterill used to shit himself regularly (clearly not every time he touched the ball) seeing as how Blackwell used to spend large parts of games berating him even when his performances were head and shoulders above some of the players and seeing as how on a number of occasions Blackwell singled him out for criticism after games and refused to give him regular opportunities in a consecutive run whilst giving poorer and struggling players months and months to turn their form around.

Gazblade I agree - over the last few years we've seen too many players come in and not fit in with the style we're playing and have seen too many players move away and look better. Coterill was a good player that rarely got a run of more than 2/3 games in a row and on the occasions he did he helped change our form around and make us look a better team. I do think it's time we start looking forward though and like it or not we're not going to get him back and it's unlikely we'll get sharp back after his loan comes to an end, we have to move on.

Interestingly I was looking at how Carney has done since he left and although he didn't fit in here I was slightly surprised to see he's not been involved in a single competitive league game since signing for FC Twente (although he did play for them in the UEFA cup once). He looked slow and unable to get used to the pace/physicality of the game over here at this level but I did think he was a better player than that in which his career seems to be taking him.

Reid's doing ok by the looks of it at Charlton and what would we give to have Sun Jihai back at the moment even at 33 - I still find it strange that he only played around 15 times for us! He was a good player and it just felt like he was more integral than that - had he not gone crazy at Coventry Naughton might still be with us playing in our for the youth team still!

/Rant over

 

[judge]

judge not sure why you're trying to start a row about this - to say the last two games we've played good football so the point is moot is ridiculous. Nearly every blade I know and am likely to know would agree that we've not played 90 minutes of "good football" more than a handful of times in the last two seasons. I also think that although much improved in the last two home games we still have some way to go before many will be convinced that we are capable of regularly playing good football under Blackwell.

I'd say it was mainly the managers fault that Cotterill used to shit himself regularly (clearly not every time he touched the ball) seeing as how Blackwell used to spend large parts of games berating him even when his performances were head and shoulders above some of the players and seeing as how on a number of occasions Blackwell singled him out for criticism after games and refused to give him regular opportunities in a consecutive run whilst giving poorer and struggling players months and months to turn their form around.

Gazblade I agree - over the last few years we've seen too many players come in and not fit in with the style we're playing and have seen too many players move away and look better. Coterill was a good player that rarely got a run of more than 2/3 games in a row and on the occasions he did he helped change our form around and make us look a better team. I do think it's time we start looking forward though and like it or not we're not going to get him back and it's unlikely we'll get sharp back after his loan comes to an end, we have to move on.

Interestingly I was looking at how Carney has done since he left and although he didn't fit in here I was slightly surprised to see he's not been involved in a single competitive league game since signing for FC Twente (although he did play for them in the UEFA cup once). He looked slow and unable to get used to the pace/physicality of the game over here at this level but I did think he was a better player than that in which his career seems to be taking him.

Reid's doing ok by the looks of it at Charlton and what would we give to have Sun Jihai back at the moment even at 33 - I still find it strange that he only played around 15 times for us! He was a good player and it just felt like he was more integral than that - had he not gone crazy at Coventry Naughton might still be with us playing in our for the youth team still!

/Rant over

i didnt say we had played good football over the last two home games i said we had played good football over the last two games ive been to (plymouth and palace) which makes your point about blackwell forcing the players to hoof it long ridiculous

 

[Blade]

apologies for that I misread - so what you're actually saying is that you've seen 2 of the last 16 games and therefore because you felt we played well in these games it makes a view that suggests we play "shit hoofball" to quote gazbalde ridiculous?

Also on the same lines I didn't actually suggest anywhere in my earlier post that blackwell forces the players to hoof it and even if I did I think I'd be happier with my view than that of someone who has seen 12% of the games we've played in the last 3 months. Now you suggest it though I would happen to agree that one can really only come to the conclusion that blackwell does ask his players to hoof it more often than get it down and play football as over the last 2 seasons the majority of times we end up doing just that regardless of what midfield and backline we are playing.

It is interesting to me however that the two games you have seen recently did not involve Henderson who is quite clearly Blackwell's first choice front man. More often than not when we're forced to change from the frontline that Blackwell would like to put out our performances as a team improve.

 

[judge]

apologies for that I misread - so what you're actually saying is that you've seen 2 of the last 16 games and therefore because you felt we played well in these games it makes a view that suggests we play "shit hoofball" to quote gazbalde ridiculous?

Also on the same lines I didn't actually suggest anywhere in my earlier post that blackwell forces the players to hoof it and even if I did I think I'd be happier with my view than that of someone who has seen 12% of the games we've played in the last 3 months. Now you suggest it though I would happen to agree that one can really only come to the conclusion that blackwell does ask his players to hoof it more often than get it down and play football as over the last 2 seasons the majority of times we end up doing just that regardless of what midfield and backline we are playing.

It is interesting to me however that the two games you have seen recently did not involve Henderson who is quite clearly Blackwell's first choice front man. More often than not when we're forced to change from the frontline that Blackwell would like to put out our performances as a team improve.

so now were getting down to it ,the reason you think we are an average championship team is not because we have a squad full of average championship players but its becasue the manager forces them to just boot it anywhere regardless of their football principles ?

so once these fantastic footballers who blackwell intimidates into not playing football always make an instant success of their career once they get away from the total anti football manager of sheffield united ? even though the last two times ive seen his team play they actually did play footballl

something doesnt add up to me

 

[Blade]

well, now you might as well just make up a post for me and argue with it yourself. I didn't say any of that.

I believe that over the last two season with the players available to us and importantly with the wage budget and transfer fee's we've invested we as fans should expect more good performances than we have been able to watch. I believe that we have handled some players poorly over the last few seasons and that we could have got more out of them in their time with us. I believe that our manager even with the enforced sale of players like Beattie, Naughton and Walker should be capable of ensuring we have cover for all key areas at all times and I believe that we should have more distance between us and teams like Barnsley, Blackpool, Forest (even with their expenditure), Swansea Leicester and Coventry. I also believe I can fly but that bastard R Kelly stole my line.

Thankfully after probably watching United for over 600 games in the last 20 years I'm not a total football purist who only accepts a 30 pass goal as being good enough but I do believe that in terms of "good football" (which is pretty subjective) on the whole what we've been served up under Blackwell and Robson before him has been as moribund and insipid as I've seen. The only time it's come close for me was under Heath and at least that period had some funny moments.

The thing that makes me so disappointed is that before we offered Blackwell a permanent contract he took charge and we went into pretty much each game playing attacking, direct and mostly exciting football. He is capable but inexplicably came back after the summer as a different man, one that approaches most games considering the opposition strengths well before our own.

In terms of your experiences they are rightly your own and I actually agree, the football was better than normal against Plymouth and Palace. I would again suggest that without Henderson we do play more football and given the choice Blackwell opts to play him and have us fans watch a poorer display of football as a result. Yes he's scored a few goals but we show time and time again that we're capable of scoring without him - I don't think we'd have got 4 against plymouth if Blackwell could have picked his preferred front line yet without him there we played better football than normal with Ward, Cresswell and Camara getting on the scoresheet. In the case of Ward and Camara they get to see much much more of the ball without Henderson on the pitch and despite his goals I'd much rather face him as a centre back for 90 minutes than either Ward or Camara getting the ball.

Something doesn't add up to me either and that's why we're capable on isolated occasions of playing significantly better football than has been the par and yet the average to poor performances often return if Blackwell is a better manager than many give him credit for.

 

[judge]

well, now you might as well just make up a post for me and argue with it yourself. I didn't say any of that.

I believe that over the last two season with the players available to us and importantly with the wage budget and transfer fee's we've invested we as fans should expect more good performances than we have been able to watch. I believe that we have handled some players poorly over the last few seasons and that we could have got more out of them in their time with us. I believe that our manager even with the enforced sale of players like Beattie, Naughton and Walker should be capable of ensuring we have cover for all key areas at all times and I believe that we should have more distance between us and teams like Barnsley, Blackpool, Forest (even with their expenditure), Swansea Leicester and Coventry. I also believe I can fly but that bastard R Kelly stole my line.

Thankfully after probably watching United for over 600 games in the last 20 years I'm not a total football purist who only accepts a 30 pass goal as being good enough but I do believe that in terms of "good football" (which is pretty subjective) on the whole what we've been served up under Blackwell and Robson before him has been as moribund and insipid as I've seen. The only time it's come close for me was under Heath and at least that period had some funny moments.

The thing that makes me so disappointed is that before we offered Blackwell a permanent contract he took charge and we went into pretty much each game playing attacking, direct and mostly exciting football. He is capable but inexplicably came back after the summer as a different man, one that approaches most games considering the opposition strengths well before our own.

In terms of your experiences they are rightly your own and I actually agree, the football was better than normal against Plymouth and Palace. I would again suggest that without Henderson we do play more football and given the choice Blackwell opts to play him and have us fans watch a poorer display of football as a result. Yes he's scored a few goals but we show time and time again that we're capable of scoring without him - I don't think we'd have got 4 against plymouth if Blackwell could have picked his preferred front line yet without him there we played better football than normal with Ward, Cresswell and Camara getting on the scoresheet. In the case of Ward and Camara they get to see much much more of the ball without Henderson on the pitch and despite his goals I'd much rather face him as a centre back for 90 minutes than either Ward or Camara getting the ball.

Something doesn't add up to me either and that's why we're capable on isolated occasions of playing significantly better football than has been the par and yet the average to poor performances often return if Blackwell is a better manager than many give him credit for.

wasnt you that said this then ?

Why the f@~k did KB sign Ched Evans when really he wanted someone like Mick Harford!! He must have known the style of play he had in mind before parting with around 3 million for the boy?????

 

[Blade]

wasnt you that said this then ?

That is correct. You can tell this by looking at the name of the poster which helpfully is displayed just to the left of a post. You will notice my name is Blade and the person that did post that is named GAZBLADE. You may also notice that GazBlade has a profile picture which I don't.

Hope this helps.

Even if it had been me that had said that I would still dispute that the statement alludes to us being an average championship team, having a team full of average championship players or playing poorly becasue the manager forces them to just boot it anywhere regardless of their football principles. More that Blackwell seems often to sign players that either don't fit into the system he wants us to play or he can't get them to play the way he want's them to.

But nevermind, you've been to two games in three months where we played ok and can't see a problem, those of us that have actually watched some of the poor performances should just accept it or take your lead and be lucky enough to catch the few games a season we might be ok.

Here have a fish :fishy:

 

[LouTheBlade]

KB says Cotterill not good enough for Blades. We sell him to a team that plays very good football and he begins to shine. Paolo Sousa see's quality in Stephen Quinn which a lot of Blades don't. We sign Ched from a Prem team which tries to play decent football and he looks a lost soul.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to see that it's our style of football which would make Gerrard and Lampard look shite.
Why the f@~k did KB sign Ched Evans when really he wanted someone like Mick Harford!! He must have known the style of play he had in mind before parting with around 3 million for the boy????? Apart from the fee, the same applies to Cotterill IMO. Admittedly these players weren't regulars in the Prem but Man. City & Wigan are hardly renowned for their Wimbledon style of play.
I'm just confused as to the amount of faffing about Blackwell does bringing these players in,( James Harper also included in this) when he should have just raided Stoke's reserves in the first place and been done with it.
Roll on the summer. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

You're very close to the real root of our problem here, very close indeed (almost hitting the nail on the head). What some of our supporters don't understand is that KB tries to play decent football BUT DOESN'T HAVE THE FIRST CLUE! Some seem to think that he adopts a direct and ugly style on purpose, which is not the case.

The fact is he fancies himself as a budding Wenger. He even suggested it himself recently. The problem is he tries to sign footballers but doesn't have the first idea about how and where to deploy them or to use them in a constructive way. His sides often play for half an hour, then when things aren't going to plan they lose patience and start lofting the ball or playing stupid passes. Its because the game plan isn't strong enough or finely tuned enough.

It's a common symptom of an average side trying to play better football. They have a core of players capable but lack the all round cohesion and management to do it. Therefore they stray from what they originally intended to do and try to improvise/guess. Happens with United nearly every single week and they have won some games doing it through the opposition doing exactly the same. Fortunately we had better players in those instances.

This is why Ched is playing crap, it's why Cotterill was crap for us, it's why quite a few others haven't settled as well. KB then resorts to his other type of player - e.g. Darius, Cresswell, Monty (all players I like by the way) who are capable of playing in a direct and physical system. What KB and his staff aren't capable of is using their better and more constructive talents (which they do have) to better the football we play.

I'm not suggesting he's a bad manager but he is showing his limitations and his level. He will always be a decent manager but never a great one in my opinion. When you haven't played at the higher levels you don't have the required perspective.

 

[TonyAgana]

well the last two games ive been to weve played very good football ,sort of killls your argument doesnt it ?

Not really, I happen to think Cotterill would've done just fine in the last two home line-ups. As, I think, would Billy Sharp.

 

[Ollessendro]

KB says Cotterill not good enough for Blades. We sell him to a team that plays very good football and he begins to shine. Paolo Sousa see's quality in Stephen Quinn which a lot of Blades don't. We sign Ched from a Prem team which tries to play decent football and he looks a lost soul.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to see that it's our style of football which would make Gerrard and Lampard look shite.
Why the f@~k did KB sign Ched Evans when really he wanted someone like Mick Harford!! He must have known the style of play he had in mind before parting with around 3 million for the boy????? Apart from the fee, the same applies to Cotterill IMO. Admittedly these players weren't regulars in the Prem but Man. City & Wigan are hardly renowned for their Wimbledon style of play.
I'm just confused as to the amount of faffing about Blackwell does bringing these players in,( James Harper also included in this) when he should have just raided Stoke's reserves in the first place and been done with it.
Roll on the summer. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

so to sum it up in a few wrods 'Blackwells is completely and utterly clueless'. I completely agree with you ...... but it's old news matey.

 

[Muttley]

Blade & GazBlade...I too can't say owt without a tirade of abuse from Judge. For what it's worth, I agree with you. It just seems that anyone who has a differing view to Judge gets it in the head. My advise, just ignore him, I do!

 

[Grecian2000]

wtf are you on about ? cotterill was shit at united ,is it the managers fault that he used to shit himself everytime he got the ball ?

To be fair, I have seldom read 1 post that I could agree with LESS.

 

[Micalijo]

Blade & GazBlade...I too can't say owt without a tirade of abuse from Judge. For what it's worth, I agree with you. It just seems that anyone who has a differing view to Judge gets it in the head. My advise, just ignore him, I do!

I thought Judge's response was pretty mild mannered really!

 

[super_pig]

high staff turnover is a classic metric of poor management.. the fact that many of our signings seem to fail to settle and move on is proof of this.

 

[Torrix1889]

KB says Cotterill not good enough for Blades. We sell him to a team that plays very good football and he begins to shine. Paolo Sousa see's quality in Stephen Quinn which a lot of Blades don't. We sign Ched from a Prem team which tries to play decent football and he looks a lost soul.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to see that it's our style of football which would make Gerrard and Lampard look shite.
Why the f@~k did KB sign Ched Evans when really he wanted someone like Mick Harford!! He must have known the style of play he had in mind before parting with around 3 million for the boy????? Apart from the fee, the same applies to Cotterill IMO. Admittedly these players weren't regulars in the Prem but Man. City & Wigan are hardly renowned for their Wimbledon style of play.
I'm just confused as to the amount of faffing about Blackwell does bringing these players in,( James Harper also included in this) when he should have just raided Stoke's reserves in the first place and been done with it.
Roll on the summer. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

And if you listen carefully boys and girls you can just about hear the penny drop................................

 

[mattbianco1]

Now, it doesn't take a genius to see that it's our style of football which would make Gerrard and Lampard look shite.

Englands style of play makes Gerrard & Lampard look shite!