Blades fight for custody of the kids

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He's gone Swiss. Alehouse has gone - leave it.

Bad luck on the stability front - I mean the managers job is really an irrelevance to a football club. Nowt to do with him at all.

Time for a fresh start - thought you'd be able to see that and sacking Adams for huge incompetence was part of that process, and I'm buzzing about it!

Fresh Start indeed Mic! 5 managers in less than a year and not a jot of stability in the club when you bin your manager after just 4 months. But lets not dwell, lets look forward.

I'm pretty sure Mic, that unless we get someone like Di Matteo AND he's allowed the resources to strip the squad bare and rebuild with Championship signings (i.e. Greg Halford level) then he won't be given the time by your good self and if he spends McCabes money then he won't be given time by McCabe.

Its a no win situation for any guy coming in now, because I don't believe we'll be challenging for automatics by the end of next season.
 

try to remember how many different people have played right back since we sold both of them
- see how many of these players were on loan
- try to remember how many mistakes these players made costing us goals and points

then tell me if you still think selling them both was a good deal.

Deduct the total cost of employing said loanee wasters from the transfer fee received for the Kyles. How much is left? and that surely is our "gain" from letting them go.
 
Deduct the total cost of employing said loanee wasters from the transfer fee received for the Kyles. How much is left? and that surely is our "gain" from letting them go.

Yes, if you ignore the other obvious loss, i.e our Championship status...
 
nothing much to add ,just thought i would quote the whole article and see if it pisses anyone else off as much as it does me

Not really,the piss bag brigade will have forgotten that the've read it anyway.

---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

Why is it we according to McCabe ,are stuck with players on big contracts on the one hand ,but destined to off load the young (presumably contracted) players on the other .Always struck me as strange when he's used that argument to defend the Kyle sales .If we think they are the future get them signed up ,

So what should we do with the players on big money whom we no longer need/want/or who are not up to snuff?
Do we pay them off in full or give them a free transfer if another mug, sorry club comes in for them. I do hope that discussions with the said players have taken place,with a view to moving them on. May be we would be better off loaning them out to a lower leage team and paying most of their un deserved wages, giving the young lads a chance. I have to agree with Bergs who pointed out in another post that we have let far better players leave than we now have. P
 
I don't think any of us was pleased to see the Kyles depart. It was a decision that went right to the soul of the club because what we'd all really like I guess is a team full of local lads playing brilliantly. I guess it was a hard decision but in all honesty I might well have done the same at the time.

Things might have worked out. The money we got it appears was used, (as it turns out, badly) to support loan signings for another push at the premiership. And either Kyle might not have progressed as well as they have done or got injured. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.


Any way I'm really looking forward to tonight. 'We've got the best kids in the Land' But have we? and for how long?
 
A last chance to see.....

Hands off warnings only usually seem to serve the purpose of raising the profile of said players/ managers. This warning changes nothing, but it probably just reminds those that are interested in our players that they can scout them in the Youth Cup Final before putting in an extremely low bid

McCabe said: “If, say, someone from the Premier League comes in for them and the player concerned sees what they can earn and says he wants to go, then what can you do?”.

I'm just wondering where the "Hands off!" warning is in McCabe's statement. "Make us an offer!" would be a more accurate description.
 
But unless they sign deals for the next 8 years, continue to improve and want to stay then at some point they will all be sold or shipped out.

The key is getting the best deal for the club and replacing like for like or better. Nobody wants to see them go, but who really sees them wanting to stay so long?
 
One good point made in this statement is that we may have let a couple of youngsters leave too early when they could at least have done a back up job for us, rather than some of the expensive loan and short term signings. What about Ryan Cresswell vs Jonathan Fortune? Nicky Law vs Ryan France?

The problem is that when until this season we've been a top 8 Championship side competing for a place in The Premiership.
If we'd retained the likes of Law, Creswell, Forte and Horwoord until they were 23-25 we'd still have ended up playing at their level which is Division 3 or Division 4.
And these are the players who with the benefit of hindsight can be said to have "made it". There are plenty of others we could also have retained who never did.
Ian "The replacement for Michael Brown" Ross is now 25 and playing for Harrogate in The Conference North (Sixth tier).
Tyrone Thompson is playing for non-league Mansfield and so it goes on.

What we undoubtedly should have done is build a team around those who had already proved themselves at top Championship level by the age of 21.
We did that with Montgomery, Tonge, Jagielka, Quinn and ended up in The Premiership.
We failed to do it with Naughton and Walker and wound up in Division Three.
McCabe pretending that we could have built a Championship team around players who've never reached that level is a red-herring in my opinion.
 
McCabe said: “If, say, someone from the Premier League comes in for them and the player concerned sees what they can earn and says he wants to go, then what can you do?”.

I'm just wondering where the "Hands off!" warning is in McCabe's statement. "Make us an offer!" would be a more accurate description.

It's more of a "please don't come and take this wonderful player that we sent you the DVD about and set his price at 100,000 (negotiable)"
 
The problem is that when until this season we've been a top 8 Championship side competing for a place in The Premiership.
If we'd retained the likes of Law, Creswell, Forte and Horwoord until they were 23-25 we'd still have ended up playing at their level which is Division 3 or Division 4.
And these are the players who with the benefit of hindsight can be said to have "made it". There are plenty of others we could also have retained who never did.
Ian "The replacement for Michael Brown" Ross is now 25 and playing for Harrogate in The Conference North (Sixth tier).
Tyrone Thompson is playing for non-league Mansfield and so it goes on.

What we undoubtedly should have done is build a team around those who had already proved themselves at top Championship level by the age of 21.
We did that with Montgomery, Tonge, Jagielka, Quinn and ended up in The Premiership.
We failed to do it with Naughton and Walker and wound up in Division Three.
McCabe pretending that we could have built a Championship team around players who've never reached that level is a red-herring in my opinion.

Ian Ross plays for Alfreton now of the The Conference.
 
The problem is that when until this season we've been a top 8 Championship side competing for a place in The Premiership.
If we'd retained the likes of Law, Creswell, Forte and Horwoord until they were 23-25 we'd still have ended up playing at their level which is Division 3 or Division 4.
And these are the players who with the benefit of hindsight can be said to have "made it". There are plenty of others we could also have retained who never did.
Ian "The replacement for Michael Brown" Ross is now 25 and playing for Harrogate in The Conference North (Sixth tier).
Tyrone Thompson is playing for non-league Mansfield and so it goes on.

What we undoubtedly should have done is build a team around those who had already proved themselves at top Championship level by the age of 21.
We did that with Montgomery, Tonge, Jagielka, Quinn and ended up in The Premiership.
We failed to do it with Naughton and Walker and wound up in Division Three.
McCabe pretending that we could have built a Championship team around players who've never reached that level is a red-herring in my opinion.

Don't think we could have built the squad around them, but I do think some could have done a job as squad players, rather than some of the expensive, overrated has beens that have come to our club, played little and poorly, taken the money and left us with a bigger problem than when they came - hole still to be filled, and a missed chance for a long term player to play and develop. Many Hartlepool fans wanted Horwood as player of the year last season, they he overlaps very well, has skill and a great left foot. Maybe he could have done a job, rather than signing Stephen Jordan? Signing Jordan Stewart? Loaning Mattock?
 
The problem is that when until this season we've been a top 8 Championship side competing for a place in The Premiership.
If we'd retained the likes of Law, Creswell, Forte and Horwoord until they were 23-25 we'd still have ended up playing at their level which is Division 3 or Division 4.
And these are the players who with the benefit of hindsight can be said to have "made it". There are plenty of others we could also have retained who never did.
Ian "The replacement for Michael Brown" Ross is now 25 and playing for Harrogate in The Conference North (Sixth tier).
Tyrone Thompson is playing for non-league Mansfield and so it goes on.

What we undoubtedly should have done is build a team around those who had already proved themselves at top Championship level by the age of 21.
We did that with Montgomery, Tonge, Jagielka, Quinn and ended up in The Premiership.
We failed to do it with Naughton and Walker and wound up in Division Three.
McCabe pretending that we could have built a Championship team around players who've never reached that level is a red-herring in my opinion.

Don't think we could have built the squad around them, but I do think some could have done a job as squad players, rather than some of the expensive, overrated has beens that have come to our club, played little and poorly, taken the money and left us with a bigger problem than when they came - hole still to be filled, and a missed chance for a long term player to play and develop. Many Hartlepool fans wanted Horwood as player of the year last season, they he overlaps very well, has skill and a great left foot. Maybe he could have done a job, rather than signing Stephen Jordan? Signing Jordan Stewart? Loaning Mattock?

To take your one example of Horwood. He left in Jan 2008 when we had Naysmith, Armstrong and Geary ahead of him in the pecking order.
The following season our left backs were Naysmith again and Naughton (for the last few games).
It wasn't until August 2009 that we started scuffling around to try and replace the four senior players mentioned above.
McCabe is suggesting that we could have told Horwood in Jan 2008 "just hang around in the reserves for 18 months because we might need you if we turn crap".
You could say the same for Lloyd Kerry, James Ashmore, Dean Oliver, Martin Donnelly and Nicky Travis who were all released at the same time as Horwood.
It's only with the beneift of hindsight that we know Horwood was the pick of that bunch and he still hasn't proven to be a top 8 Championship player.

Would we have made the play-offs in 2008/2009 with Horwood at left back instead of Naysmith?
Our ambitions back then were a swift return to The Premiership, rather than consolidating and developing young players.
With the exception of Sharp, manager's decisions to discard young players who weren't good enough for the Championship, have so far proved correct.
McCabe's decision to force his manager to sell Walker and Naughton is the flawed one as they had already proved themselves to be good enough.
 
You never needed hindsight regarding the sale of the Kyles, everyone knew that we took a cheap offer on 2 quality players which we didn't have a replacement for within the club, and there's no way we were ever going to go out and spend even £2m of the £8-10m (depending who's talking) and reinvest into the team, always promised and never delivered when we sell any decent players, so you end up where we are, right up that creek with no paddle
 
You never needed hindsight regarding the sale of the Kyles, everyone knew that we took a cheap offer on 2 quality players which we didn't have a replacement for within the club, and there's no way we were ever going to go out and spend even £2m of the £8-10m (depending who's talking) and reinvest into the team, always promised and never delivered when we sell any decent players, so you end up where we are, right up that creek with no paddle

i think the points being made here are - mccabe was spouting how we've discarded so many great youngsters and used forte and horwood as examples, conveniently ignoring the sale of the two best young uns to come through in years!
 

You never needed hindsight regarding the sale of the Kyles, everyone knew that we took a cheap offer on 2 quality players which we didn't have a replacement for within the club, and there's no way we were ever going to go out and spend even £2m of the £8-10m (depending who's talking) and reinvest into the team, always promised and never delivered when we sell any decent players, so you end up where we are, right up that creek with no paddle

"Cheap offer"? £8-10m for two players with around 40 second tier appearances between them. I hardly think so.
 
You never needed hindsight regarding the sale of the Kyles, everyone knew that we took a cheap offer on 2 quality players which we didn't have a replacement for within the club, and there's no way we were ever going to go out and spend even £2m of the £8-10m (depending who's talking) and reinvest into the team, always promised and never delivered when we sell any decent players, so you end up where we are, right up that creek with no paddle


I don't think you could call offers of that size cheap offers.

Whether or not it was right to sell them is another matter entirely, but I don't think it was a cheap offer.
 
I meant cheap in relation to what they are worth now, whilst I agree it was a lot of money, KW is probably worth 6-7m on his own and wasn't his part of the deal around £2m, so with that in mind we sold him cheap, yes he wasn't proven, but we could all see his potential.
 
I meant cheap in relation to what they are worth now, whilst I agree it was a lot of money, KW is probably worth 6-7m on his own and wasn't his part of the deal around £2m, so with that in mind we sold him cheap, yes he wasn't proven, but we could all see his potential.

I think KW had played 2 league games, 2 FA Cup and 3 play off games when we sold him. Yes he had potential, but potential is not achievement. Bear in mind as well he had been out on loan (to Northampton I think) and had not pulled up any trees there. He may well have been a flash in the pan. £2M for him (if it was that) was not a cheap offer.
 
Bear in mind as well he had been out on loan (to Northampton I think) and had not pulled up any trees there. He may well have been a flash in the pan. £2M for him (if it was that) was not a cheap offer.

He got rave reviews from the Northampton fans during his time there.

The deal for both Kyles still strikes me as a bit odd. I remember posting that Naughton would be better going to Everton, who were rumoured to be willing to pay the same as Spurs but they only wanted him, not Walker as well.

Yes, £2m or £3m seemed good at the time but Naughton had only had half a season in the first team and he was valued at £5m. Walker had played 7 games (I think) when he left; surely it would have been worth not selling him?
 
He got rave reviews from the Northampton fans during his time there.

Fair enough, but after his time there, he barely registered with United fans let alone having PL scous slavering outside McCabe's office...
 
Fair enough, but after his time there, he barely registered with United fans let alone having PL scous slavering outside McCabe's office...

That I can't disagree with. That said, how many United fans will know much about Seamus Conneely and he might fulfill the prophecy that he'll be as good as Seamus Coleman. Take this link with a pinch of salt but the talent is evidently there:

Clicky
 
That I can't disagree with. That said, how many United fans will know much about Seamus Conneely and he might fulfill the prophecy that he'll be as good as Seamus Coleman. Take this link with a pinch of salt but the talent is evidently there:

Clicky

Conneely was 22, so hardly a youngster when we signed him. He signed for a struggling 2nd tier club and has not had a sniff of the first team since signing - despite all United's problems.

All players are watched these days. If Conneely was anything better than a back up players for a 2nd/3rd tier team, someone better would have signed him.
 
"Cheap offer"? £8-10m for two players with around 40 second tier appearances between them. I hardly think so.
Except Walker's class was so obvious from the outset, tangibly better than Naughton. I told people after 2-3 games of watching him that he would be an England player.

I'm not arguing with the need to sell in such a situation, but Naughton to Everton and keeping Walker for another year or 2 would have been far far preferable. We criminally undersold Walker in my book.
 
Except Walker's class was so obvious from the outset, tangibly better than Naughton. I told people after 2-3 games of watching him that he would be an England player.

I'm not arguing with the need to sell in such a situation, but Naughton to Everton and keeping Walker for another year or 2 would have been far far preferable. We criminally undersold Walker in my book.

I am afraid I have to disagree. Bear in mind that until the start of this year Walker had not really done much at PL level - only 3 apperances at that level despite being on Spurs' books for some 18 months. Yes, he looked a good player in the 5 games we saw him in at the end of the season 08-09, but he had not done anything particularly special before then and can you really judge a players' long term trajectory on 5 games?

There is an argument that we should have held onto him in 2009 (but again we have the difficulty of players who have been offered - what - 4 times their BL salary and who we are keeping against their will), but if we were going to sell, I think £2M was a good price.
 
Except Walker's class was so obvious from the outset, tangibly better than Naughton. I told people after 2-3 games of watching him that he would be an England player.

I'm not arguing with the need to sell in such a situation, but Naughton to Everton and keeping Walker for another year or 2 would have been far far preferable. We criminally undersold Walker in my book.

I said the same. A director of football with experience and a good eye for a player should have made the decision when Tottenham came knocking, not a business man like McCabe.

---------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

Horwood always seemed to get praised when BUers posted youth and reserves reports, which is why I had more hopes for him than the others you mentioned. A six footer with a great left foot, good technical ability and good pace sounded good, and that's the way Hartlepool fans describe him as well.

I'm not surprised Robson wasn't bothered about him at the time though, and of course then came Blackwell. Blackwell wouldn't have played an untried youngster if he at all had the chance of playing/emergency-signing an ageing, expensive crook instead, so for his own sake it was probably a good job Horwood left... :)

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

That I can't disagree with. That said, how many United fans will know much about Seamus Conneely and he might fulfill the prophecy that he'll be as good as Seamus Coleman. Take this link with a pinch of salt but the talent is evidently there:

Clicky

I read somewhere that Conneely is far better in centre midfield than at right back. Hope he'll get a chance to show it.
 

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