Being Positive/Negative About SUFC

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

LouTheBlade

Active Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
1,591
Reaction score
186
Location
Sheffield
I’m going to try and play devil’s advocate to some degree now and open up a reasoned and honest debate between fans so here goes;

We have a number of fans on this forum who have completely polar opposite views about the club, the team and the manager, which is to be expected from fans of any football club. But let’s touch on the major issues dogging everyone at the moment;

The team:-
I think it’s fair to say we have an under resourced squad of players when you consider our current injury plight and the lack of quality in one or two areas. The other side of the argument would suggest that we have a solid core of good championship players and should be a match for anyone, even with a few injuries carried. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle but the one thing I would say (and this is where my opinion comes in) is that on the whole the players aren’t to blame for any current dissatisfaction. Apart from maybe one or two of them, we don’t have a bad player in the squad and they work hard for the cause so people could be advised to back off the players. That said, people pay their money and have a right to vent their frustration at an overpaid footballer. Whatever the case may be it should be about balance and perspective.

Kevin Blackwell:-
The topic our fans can’t seem to leave alone. Instead of arguing my point and other people putting spin on theirs, let’s sum up the facts;

*He had a very decent transfer budget last season
*He had a semi-decent budget at the start of this season
*He has been forced to sell players (some bad, some good, some indifferent)
*He has had cruel luck with injuries this season
*We have a terrible record at coming from a goal down under him
*We have a good record of not losing when we have been a goal up under him
*He prefers a direct style of play

But the most important point in my mind;

*The majority of fans don’t rate him and want him out

All things considered there it could be argued that Kevin Blackwell has neither done a good or a bad job. Depends which way you look at it. As a fan I have a minimum expectation of Sheffield United being positioned comfortably in a playoff position all season. We are falling short of that at present. What also springs to mind is the fact that KB has struggled every time a club has plunged into further financial difficulties and has had to cut its budget. Following Leeds’ playoff defeat they were forced to cut their budget the following season in order to maintain some sort of stability. He also struggled under financial restraints at Luton and some would argue he is now. There are plenty of managers out there who do well on a tight budget – Neil Warnock, Ian Holloway, Owen Coyle etc etc. so are we really being unrealistic? Or are we entitled to expect good football and consistency on what we have?

The club/board:-I suppose despite our reported debts we could consider ourselves grateful to have a chairman willing to invest £50M of his own money but what I find bewildering is that the chairman would do this with the intention of wanting a large proportion of his investment back! Don’t misinterpret this as a bold personal view. I think anyone in their right mind would want multi-millions back if they had loaned it to someone but it begs the question – who in their right mind would plough that kind of personal wealth into a football club and expect a prompt return on it? I can only assume, like many others that he was gambling on PL status and the WC bid to bring in the required revenue. It was obviously a massive miscalculation and one that the club is going to pay for – not McCabe.

We could argue that it was a small effort at showing some ambition for a change (lord knows he’s the most ambitious chairman to date) but at what cost will it be to our immediate or even long term future. Some sections of the support are planning to vote with their feet if KB remains in charge – that is a dead cert. I think some of us would urge the board to think about that for the benefit of the football club. Could it be suggested that a new manager would bring a wave of optimism and possibly help them with their pre-Easter season ticket renewals? Now would possibly be the time to do it and launch the marketing campaign off the back of it. On the other hand, it could be risky and there are no guarantees a new manager would do any better.

In summary:-
I am a loyal supporter; I go to every home game and good proportion of away games (when I can). I always encourage the players and never berate them as I appreciate they have a job to do and need my backing. I sometimes criticise the manager, even the board when I feel it is appropriate. If you want my personal opinion (for what it’s worth) - now is the time for change. But that’s just my view. I would be interested to hear all your comments on the above...............
 

I generally agree with this post Lou except that you don't know that the majority of fans want Blackwell out. Even if they did i think it would be a mistake to sack him on this basis - its not a popularity contest. Blackwell has done what has been asked of him and until recently has been successful

The biggest single mistake we made in the past few years was appointing Robson. This came about as a knee jerk to relegation. Whether it was the right time for Warnock to go or not(I think not) clearly not enough work was put in to finding a suitable replacement - and have we suffered! .

Wednesday may have got lucky with Irvine (we'll see) but the process they went through in reaction to the lynch mob who wanted Laws out was a joke.

Give Blackwell until the end of the season, but then its time to reassess if we are unsuccessful and discontented.

Like many I hark back to the Currie and Woodward era and even before that to Birchenall and Jones and would love to see a 'footballing' team at Bramall Lane nurturing local talent and not selling it. O Driscoll could do this.

On the other hand Warnock did not bring beautiful football, but there were many exciting times and despite his weaknesses in buying players he was a force for the good. He brought the soul back into the club, built the supporter base and took us back to the promised land. Does he deserve one last shot?
 
I generally agree with this post Lou except that you don't know that the majority of fans want Blackwell out. Even if they did i think it would be a mistake to sack him on this basis - its not a popularity contest.

I take your other points but disagree totally with the above. The vast majority do want him out. Most on here say it and a large number of supporters I know are saying it as well. I know that is only a sample of supporters but they are a good spread of people and that will reflect somewhat on the rest of the support.

To touch on the other point - it is a popularity contest im afraid. Football is and always has been at all levels. If the fans dont like him and eventually walk away then the board would have to act. Boro did with falling attendances when they sacked Southgate. If a manager isnt wanted by the supporters then they are on borrowed time. Sad fact of the game.
 
I take your other points but disagree totally with the above. The vast majority do want him out. Most on here say it and a large number of supporters I know are saying it as well. I know that is only a sample of supporters but they are a good spread of people and that will reflect somewhat on the rest of the support.
QUOTE]

Do the numbers on the "Blackwell Out" side of the fence increase in direct proportion to how recent the latest poor display or poor result was? The further that the result or display that pees them off recedes into the mists of time, do they then become fence-sitters or even revert to the "Blackwell In" side of the fence?

Considering we are in the middle of a spate of games that so far have been largely dire, does this mean that those who temporarily shift to the "Blackwell Out" will become permanent residents there?






All these questions, and more, will be answered in the next episode of.....SoaP!

;)

Anybody remember that?
 
Spot on Lou. A very good post. I agree with oretty much everything you say. Here are a few thoughts.

The team

Decent yet unresourced squad. For a long time I was harping on saying that our team is one of the best in the Championship and that our squad means we should be looking at a top 4 finish. Reality has hit me of late (like a double decker bus after the Watford game) and I have changed my opinion somewhat. We have a good first team that can beat any Championship team on their day. However they are lacking in confidence a little.

The main problem with the team is a lack of pace. Not only that but we are slow and one dimensional. Dangerous nplayers like Ward and Camara don't get a look in. Creative players like Williamson, Harper and Quinn are under achieving.

Manager


Anyone who reads this forum knows my opinion on KB, so I won't harp on about it. I am not a knocker and don't hate Blackwell. I think up until the end of last season he did an ok job. I think since he has completely lost his way. Hence I'd like to see him part with the Blades.

Board/Chairman


I'm a little bit disappointed with McCabe at the moment. I am not going to knock him as I think he has done a lot for the club. After Brealy, Woolhouse and McDonald he looks a saint. However, I am starting to think that he isn't a saint. He stabilised us, invested and we have enjoyed some good times under him. However he seems disinterested now. This is what disappoints me. After all the promises he made about being a top 10 club, it seems now he just wants out. Don't get me wrong. I thank him for putting money into the club and being generall a decent chairman. However he made a huge and stupid mistake in appointing Robson. 'Backing the wrong horse' seems to have disilussioned him and now I get the impression that Sheffield United football club is low down on his priorities. i don't doubt he's 100% Blade. he's been a good chairman, but he could communicate better.

For me now, i'd like him to come out and be honest. To say, 'ok i'm here to stay, give me some time (til the recession finishes) i'll find the right man, invest some money and get us to the Premiership' or for him to say 'I've had enough. I love United but i've other priorities. i gave it a good shot. NW blew it in the Premiership and i backed a 3 legged horse. I made a big, costly mistake and now my heart is not in it anymore.'

Summary

I'm fucking fed up. People can call me less of a fan, or not a loyal supporter, but I'm becoming less and less interested in united. This has crept up on me. I'm less fussed about games and generally apathetic of late.

We need some changes. McCabe should put up or stand aside. Blackwell needs to go. Simple as. Even if it's just replacing him with Speed.
 
Olle, on the subject of investment I heard yesterday that apparently the Libyan investment is all lined up, however McCabe is wanting his lads to stay on the board with a strong say in all decisions. Apparently the investor isn't so keen and that is the hold up and has been for a while.
 
Lou - I think you are wrong to say that Bob the Builder has not put in £50m of his own money. The hotel for example has not been financed by cash that McCabe had made elsewhere.

I guess you are saying that he is in control of a company with £50m debts - which of course is true but if it does all go down the pan - he would not be £50m out of pocket. The bank would a be a substantial loser as well.

Other than that decent post.

How McCabe is evading alot of the criticism Blackwell (quite rightly) is receiving is beyond me. I can't believe the figures involved. When the property ventures were first mooted I had in mind a couple of office blocks here and there. I believed McCabe when he said SUFC would be at the core of the business. I don't think it is anymore
 
Agree with all that Olle. Excellent post.
 
The vast majority do want him out.

Slight leap of faith there lou, are you honestly suggesting that what, 80-90% of fans of Sheffield United FC want Blackwell out ?

For the record, there were about half a dozen who started the chant last night, I think it was after they went 2-0 up. It lasted for about 30 seconds and wasn't heard again. I'd suggest the vast majority are apathetic at the moment which is slightly different and I don't think replacing Blackwell with a Peter Reid or a Glen Roeder would make much difference.
 
Bob, I think we share the same source - if it's the same person that told you about the Ron Reid stuff a few month ago.

If it is the same person then I believe pretty much everything they tell me about the club and I don't think you're too far off the truth with your above post.
 
Olle, on the subject of investment I heard yesterday that apparently the Libyan investment is all lined up, however McCabe is wanting his lads to stay on the board with a strong say in all decisions. Apparently the investor isn't so keen and that is the hold up and has been for a while.

Enlighten me Bob. Whats this Libyan investment? I dont know anything about this.

Is it anything substantial and whats the source on it?
 
Slight leap of faith there lou, are you honestly suggesting that what, 80-90% of fans of Sheffield United FC want Blackwell out ?

For the record, there were about half a dozen who started the chant last night, I think it was after they went 2-0 up. It lasted for about 30 seconds and wasn't heard again. I'd suggest the vast majority are apathetic at the moment which is slightly different and I don't think replacing Blackwell with a Peter Reid or a Glen Roeder would make much difference.

I'm not suggesting any particular figures Jim. All im saying is a lot of people (who ive heard from/know) are unhappy with him and dont want him as manager anymore. I concede I'm only going on people I have spoken to but its almost everyone I do speak to and I know a diverse number of personalities so it does have me thinking its a shared feeling amongst a large section of the support.

Minority chants are all well and good but its no measure of the ill-feeling. Only a small number of people would have the bottle/inclination to start a chant like that but thats up to them. Apathy is not something that Sheffield folk are well known for and its not something I have found with a lot of the supporters I speak to. The bit that alarms me is that many of the people I refer to are normally quite patient and measured in their views which is why I raised the point in the first place. These are not specifically my views. Im just commenting on feedback I get in conversation.

I dont think anyone would suggest a Reid or a Roeder would be a suitable replacement. They have been out of the managerial side of the game far too long.
 
Slight leap of faith there lou, are you honestly suggesting that what, 80-90% of fans of Sheffield United FC want Blackwell out ?

Jim, a snippet of fans feeling can be found

http://www.sheff-utd.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17112

where it shows that about 60-65% want Blackwell out. This is of course not the vast majority (your 80% or so) and the apathy you mentioned is there. However it is still quite high. I know it's not a random sample of fans, but before someone points it out I'd like them to show me, or tell me of, a better sample.
 
Eskimo is right.. it is about the soul of the club. the club feels now like it was before warnock came. .it is soulless..
 
I'm not suggesting any particular figures Jim. All im saying is a lot of people (who ive heard from/know) are unhappy with him and dont want him as manager anymore. I concede I'm only going on people I have spoken to but its almost everyone I do speak to and I know a diverse number of personalities so it does have me thinking its a shared feeling amongst a large section of the support.

Minority chants are all well and good but its no measure of the ill-feeling. Only a small number of people would have the bottle/inclination to start a chant like that but thats up to them. Apathy is not something that Sheffield folk are well known for and its not something I have found with a lot of the supporters I speak to. The bit that alarms me is that many of the people I refer to are normally quite patient and measured in their views which is why I raised the point in the first place. These are not specifically my views. Im just commenting on feedback I get in conversation.

I dont think anyone would suggest a Reid or a Roeder would be a suitable replacement. They have been out of the managerial side of the game far too long.

Fair enough, obviously I'm out of Sheffield as well but I was just surprised by the 'vast majority' comment.

Re the Reid / Roeder comment, I just think they're the type we would likely get next time round and even though I've suggested it myself, the Steve Coppell's of this world are probably not an option.
 

Fair enough, obviously I'm out of Sheffield as well but I was just surprised by the 'vast majority' comment.

Re the Reid / Roeder comment, I just think they're the type we would likely get next time round and even though I've suggested it myself, the Steve Coppell's of this world are probably not an option

I cant argue with you there. I have said myself that the likes of Steve Coppell wouldnt want the job. I think youre right in the sense that we would probably be scraping the barrel for appropriate candidates. The only two I would personally consider are Neil Warnock or Gary Speed.

But thats just my opinion and many have argued with me on it. O'Driscoll is not an option for me but if it happened he would get my full support (provided we improved).
 
Jim, a snippet of fans feeling can be found

http://www.sheff-utd.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17112

where it shows that about 60-65% want Blackwell out. This is of course not the vast majority (your 80% or so) and the apathy you mentioned is there. However it is still quite high. I know it's not a random sample of fans, but before someone points it out I'd like them to show me, or tell me of, a better sample.

At the end of the day you're talking about 60 odd fans from on an internet forum. From what I've seen and heard outside of here, for every fan shouting abuse at Blackwell, there's plenty shouting them down. As I say, for me it's apathy, plenty are unhappy at the situation but accept it for what it is and from that viewpoint, also accept that removing the manager isn't necessarily the answer.
 
>there's plenty shouting them down
you don't sit in the westfield then mate i can tell you that.. some people would have his head on a plate
 
I cant argue with you there. I have said myself that the likes of Steve Coppell wouldnt want the job. I think youre right in the sense that we would probably be scraping the barrel for appropriate candidates. The only two I would personally consider are Neil Warnock or Gary Speed.

But thats just my opinion and many have argued with me on it. O'Driscoll is not an option for me but if it happened he would get my full support (provided we improved).

A lot will depend on who's in charge of the hiring and firing. When you hear Ryan talking, he always says he was impressed by the way O'Driscoll's Bournemouth tore Donny apart a few times and he always wanted him purely from a footballing point of view. McCabe always talked about Robson as a name and someone to push 'the brand' forward as much as his capabilities football wise.
 
An excellent, intelligent post Lou.
A shining example to all who inhabit this organ of communication.

For all our problems, they aren't nearly as bad as we have had them in the past.
Some people really do have memory loss issues.

Over the next few month we'll see clubs with serious financial problems start to fold.
Cardiff, West Ham , Palace and Portsmouth are just the tip of the iceberg.

I do hope McCabe keeps his business acumen sharpened and the cash flow healthy so we survive.
 
At the end of the day you're talking about 60 odd fans from on an internet forum. From what I've seen and heard outside of here, for every fan shouting abuse at Blackwell, there's plenty shouting them down. As I say, for me it's apathy, plenty are unhappy at the situation but accept it for what it is and from that viewpoint, also accept that removing the manager isn't necessarily the answer.

It's 92 actually!? And you can be as patronising as you want, but it doesn't help if you don't give a better solution.

And it's not just fans on a forum, its a sample of Blades fans. As I say it might not be compleltely representative of the whole population of Blades fans, but show me a better one.

Statasticians use samples all the time. When tests, regressions and analysis asre done on smokers, for example, do you think they test the entire population? No of course not, they choose a sample. And, in my eyes, this is a perfectly good one. If you don't agree, i'd be interested to hear why you think the fans who go on a forum would have a different opinion to the general fans/whole population.
 
Enlighten me Bob. Whats this Libyan investment? I dont know anything about this.

Is it anything substantial and whats the source on it?
I haven't seen anything concrete online Lou, but yes I would say the source was substantial and would be ITK regarding something like this.
"They" are someone who has regular conversations with McCabe and others involved in their specific area who sit on our board.
 
I haven't seen anything concrete online Lou, but yes I would say the source was substantial and would be ITK regarding something like this.
"They" are someone who has regular conversations with McCabe and others involved in their specific area who sit on our board.

is it today dad? :D

the hold up is McCabe wants more £££££££££££££
 
Personally dont think its the right time to get rid of Blackwell, no matter how much I want him to go.

We need a major re-think of our philosophy and then we need to get the right man in to implement it. Who that is Im not sure, what about Zola if Wet Spam lose tonight ;)

The club should also be prepared to let the fans know that we are starting a new cycle, 2/3/4 year etc, that will have us consolidating what we have while we integrate the Academy better into the first team plans. This coupled with an improvement in our scouting network and Id be more than happy to wait if I could start to see signs of progress, and Im not talking instant progress.

Also personally dont think Warnock is the way forward, we've been there and too me it would by symptomatic of a very short-term view. Yes he may be competent at being able to get teams with not much cash into the playoffs, but Im after more than that this time, Im being greedy I want a plan from the club as a whole that goes beyond the next season or two.

As stated above get the Academy integrated better, get the scouting network improved and lets get the club from top to bottom all pulling in the same direction with a plan of how its going to be from now on.

I also dont have a real issue with McCabe, he invested money why shouldnt he get a decent return from it, Id do the same. As we all know football is a business and clubs need to be run with that in mind. He took a bit of a gamble regarding the property market but none of us saw the banking collapse coming, who's to say if that hadnt happened how much revenue we would be making from that venture. His intentions were right regarding having to have off field activities to help the club afford to do what he/us want it to do, its unfortunate that as with all investment that give the kind of returns we were looking for there is an element of risk, but the market will recover and Im sure we will get revenue from it 3,4,5 years down the line. I wonder how we would be if we hadnt started to make the investments? We've got no outside revenue streams and a limited income regarding Tickets, Merchandise etc yes we could have been in a better state but that would be short-term again, we could have been in a worse state I just cant say.

A question though Lou, what do you mean by McCabe wanting a prompt return?? Ive not seen him asking for his money back asap.
 
I'm not suggesting any particular figures Jim. All im saying is a lot of people (who ive heard from/know) are unhappy with him and dont want him as manager anymore. I concede I'm only going on people I have spoken to but its almost everyone I do speak to and I know a diverse number of personalities so it does have me thinking its a shared feeling amongst a large section of the support.

Minority chants are all well and good but its no measure of the ill-feeling. Only a small number of people would have the bottle/inclination to start a chant like that but thats up to them. Apathy is not something that Sheffield folk are well known for and its not something I have found with a lot of the supporters I speak to. The bit that alarms me is that many of the people I refer to are normally quite patient and measured in their views which is why I raised the point in the first place. These are not specifically my views. Im just commenting on feedback I get in conversation.

I dont think anyone would suggest a Reid or a Roeder would be a suitable replacement. They have been out of the managerial side of the game far too long.

I would suggest that there is a large majority fed up with the style of football.
The majority that wants Blackie out is much smaller.

I think any new manger would struggle as his hands would be tied behind his back just like Blackies are unless it was a strong personality such as Old Cloughie. Some one who would fight McCabe over the direction of effort at the club with football taking priority is needed. Then again a guy like that wouldn't get beyond the interview.
 
is it today dad? :D

the hold up is McCabe wants more £££££££££££££

In a roundabout way. I'm sure more money would make McCabe accept the deal on the table however the deal could be done now if he accepted less control.

Anyway we are going OT, back to Blackie.
 
A question though Lou, what do you mean by McCabe wanting a prompt return?? Ive not seen him asking for his money back asap.

I probably could have worded that better to be fair. What I essentially mean is that McCabe now wants the money back and to get out as soon as he can with it.

I question anyone's mentality who thinks they can invest that sort of money in a football club and then viably pull the plug and ask for it back at any given time. I know he isnt necessarily pressing for the money but he must be after the return of his investment soon, otherwise they wouldnt be telling us about the debt would they?

That is essentially the point I was trying to make. Apologies, it wasnt clear. Of course that whole argument is blown out of the water if there is an investor/s on the way......... In which case he will be getting his money back.
 
In a roundabout way. I'm sure more money would make McCabe accept the deal on the table however the deal could be done now if he accepted less control.




These meetings have been going on a while now. It was supposed to be close to being completed before xmas. At that point the problem was Mr McCabe wanted to keep involved with United rather than sell up completely.
Time will tell.
 
It's 92 actually!? And you can be as patronising as you want, but it doesn't help if you don't give a better solution.

And it's not just fans on a forum, its a sample of Blades fans. As I say it might not be compleltely representative of the whole population of Blades fans, but show me a better one.

Statasticians use samples all the time. When tests, regressions and analysis asre done on smokers, for example, do you think they test the entire population? No of course not, they choose a sample. And, in my eyes, this is a perfectly good one. If you don't agree, i'd be interested to hear why you think the fans who go on a forum would have a different opinion to the general fans/whole population.

http://www.sheff-utd.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15350

At the end of the day you're talking about 60 odd fans from on an internet forum. From what I've seen and heard outside of here, for every fan shouting abuse at Blackwell, there's plenty shouting them down. As I say, for me it's apathy, plenty are unhappy at the situation but accept it for what it is and from that viewpoint, also accept that removing the manager isn't necessarily the answer.

Cat got your tongue Jim?

If you see the link above there is a larger sample ('250 fans') and 75% of them state that Blackwell should be sacked. I'd say 75% of fans make a vast majority and hence back up Lou's point.

Maybe I am being a bit pedantic here by foloowing this point, but I think it evidences Lou's original point which you questioned.
 

Personally dont think its the right time to get rid of Blackwell, no matter how much I want him to go.

We need a major re-think of our philosophy and then we need to get the right man in to implement it. Who that is Im not sure, what about Zola if Wet Spam lose tonight ;)

The club should also be prepared to let the fans know that we are starting a new cycle, 2/3/4 year etc, that will have us consolidating what we have while we integrate the Academy better into the first team plans. This coupled with an improvement in our scouting network and Id be more than happy to wait if I could start to see signs of progress, and Im not talking instant progress.

Also personally dont think Warnock is the way forward, we've been there and too me it would by symptomatic of a very short-term view. Yes he may be competent at being able to get teams with not much cash into the playoffs, but Im after more than that this time, Im being greedy I want a plan from the club as a whole that goes beyond the next season or two.

As stated above get the Academy integrated better, get the scouting network improved and lets get the club from top to bottom all pulling in the same direction with a plan of how its going to be from now on.

I also dont have a real issue with McCabe, he invested money why shouldnt he get a decent return from it, Id do the same. As we all know football is a business and clubs need to be run with that in mind. He took a bit of a gamble regarding the property market but none of us saw the banking collapse coming, who's to say if that hadnt happened how much revenue we would be making from that venture. His intentions were right regarding having to have off field activities to help the club afford to do what he/us want it to do, its unfortunate that as with all investment that give the kind of returns we were looking for there is an element of risk, but the market will recover and Im sure we will get revenue from it 3,4,5 years down the line. I wonder how we would be if we hadnt started to make the investments? We've got no outside revenue streams and a limited income regarding Tickets, Merchandise etc yes we could have been in a better state but that would be short-term again, we could have been in a worse state I just cant say.

A question though Lou, what do you mean by McCabe wanting a prompt return?? Ive not seen him asking for his money back asap.

I agree with every word of that.

Keep Blackie till the end of the season (as much as it would pain me to watch it) then revamp on a new 5 year plan come the summer.

If the cards were laid out on the table it'd be much easier to digest.
 

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom