Another Great Piece of Business

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Bladesway said:
http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/story-18778699-detail/story.html#axzz2RGY4RYPd

Quinn cost them £84k (No surprise there) but wins players player of the year. However we get a (whoopeedoo) six figure (100,001 probably) if they get promotion (worth £80m).

Well done us.
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Beggars belief in the way the club is run at Bramall Lane.
We are the best supported club in the division so can any one say where we are going wrong.
Personally I would look at the top of the club first before looking on the park.
Just think of the players that come to mind that we have sold.
If one wants to make comparisons with a another team with similar support then look at Charlton.
UTB
 
Blades transfers have always fallen into 3 catgories:-
a) We get a player for a fee. Someone offers very slightly over that fee and so we sell because it's a profit (e.g. Nick Blackman)
b) We need to reduce the wage bill and get rid of a high earner, everyone knows this because we bleedin' tell everyone and so they come in with derogatory offers which are undisclosed at the time (e.g. Stephen Quinn)
c) We occasionally get a reasonable offer for a young 'un and decide to cash in because we have no ambition or long term thinking (e.g. Matt Lowton)
We are far too transparent with our transfer policy which is why transfer fees recieved are too low or "undisclosed" (because they are embarassed to reveal them). We have no financial savvy in how to play the transfer game. I would love to play Uniteds hierarchy at poker because they would be shit and I'd clean up. I can just see it now "Woohoo, full house get in!!! er . . I mean . . what a shit hand, what have you got Billy?"
 
Bladesway said:
http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/story-18778699-detail/story.html#axzz2RGY4RYPd

Quinn cost them £84k (No surprise there) but wins players player of the year. However we get a (whoopeedoo) six figure (100,001 probably) if they get promotion (worth £80m).

Well done us.
Click to expand...

If this is all we got, I shudder to think how much the "derisory" offer from Blackpool the season before amounted to. Probably a bucket of sand and a model of the Tower.

the other interesting thing about this is that if I remember correctly, that fee was undisclosed. You can see why.

Oh and well done Quinny, who gets more unjust criticism than most.
 
If, as it was rumoured, Quinn was earning somewhere in the region of £15,000 per week then the impact of getting him off the wage bill shouldn't be underestimated.

I don't think anyone is going to be happy about the fee we received for him but in the cold light of day, somewhere in the region of £250k-£500k for a third tier player in the last year of his contract whose wages would have resulted in a transfer embargo is the best we could have hoped for.

Don't criticise the outcome, just the chain of events which backed us into the corner from which we had to sell him. For an example of the alternative: we paid Nick Montgomery £400k to leave in August.

Oh, and Quinn was always a good player but he needs good players round him to properly shine; he wasn't capable of controlling games on his own.
 
Quinn told one of my mates that United were getting £2k per game but £1m if they got promoted. Whether he was just trying to appease my mate is another matter
 
Balham Blade said:
If, as it was rumoured, Quinn was earning somewhere in the region of £15,000 per week then the impact of getting him off the wage bill shouldn't be underestimated.

I don't think anyone is going to be happy about the fee we received for him but in the cold light of day, somewhere in the region of £250k-£500k for a third tier player in the last year of his contract whose wages would have resulted in a transfer embargo is the best we could have hoped for.

Don't criticise the outcome, just the chain of events which backed us into the corner from which we had to sell him. For an example of the alternative: we paid Nick Montgomery £400k to leave in August..
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All that is true - we were backed into a corner (although we seem to be getting less than your best case scenario, no surprise there). The idiot move was extending Monty's contract in the summer of 2010, despite the fact that Britton and Quinn and Ertl were on the books. He brought nothing to the table that wasn't in the squad already and he was expensive.
 
Billyblade said:
We are far too transparent with our transfer policy which is why transfer fees recieved are too low or "undisclosed" (because they are embarassed to reveal them).
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The flip side of that is that the fans desire transparency as to how the club is run.

You can't have both.
 
Revolution said:
If this is all we got, I shudder to think how much the "derisory" offer from Blackpool the season before amounted to. Probably a bucket of sand and a model of the Tower.

the other interesting thing about this is that if I remember correctly, that fee was undisclosed. You can see why.

Oh and well done Quinny, who gets more unjust criticism than most.
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It was just the tower, we're spending £1M/month on sand, got tons of it
 
Billyblade said:
Blades transfers have always fallen into 3 catgories:-
a) We get a player for a fee. Someone offers very slightly over that fee and so we sell because it's a profit (e.g. Nick Blackman)
b) We need to reduce the wage bill and get rid of a high earner, everyone knows this because we bleedin' tell everyone and so they come in with derogatory offers which are undisclosed at the time (e.g. Stephen Quinn)
c) We occasionally get a reasonable offer for a young 'un and decide to cash in because we have no ambition or long term thinking (e.g. Matt Lowton)
We are far too transparent with our transfer policy which is why transfer fees recieved are too low or "undisclosed" (because they are embarassed to reveal them). We have no financial savvy in how to play the transfer game. I would love to play Uniteds hierarchy at poker because they would be shit and I'd clean up. I can just see it now "Woohoo, full house get in!!! er . . I mean . . what a shit hand, what have you got Billy?"
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Oh for someone at the Lane like Daniel Levy at Spurs - reputably a phenomanally hard bargainer
 
Highbury_Blade said:
The flip side of that is that the fans desire transparency as to how the club is run.

You can't have both.
Click to expand...
I meant we are transparent in the run-up to a transfer so everyone knows how easy it's gonna be to shaft us. We need to learn to keep our cards close to our chest and also develop a spine in telling people to do one when they come in with a shit offer.

I'm all for transparency after the event.
 
Revolution said:
I've long thought that we should be as transparent as US sport. Information as to what players earn, and their transfer fees, should be publicly available.
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Can't disagree with that.

Full breakdown of all transfers outlining all payments made by who and to whom, along with any T&C's relating to staged payments.

None of this "Undisclosed Fee" bollocks
 
I do think people are often overly critical of our transfer policy.

For example, over the last few years, we have actually done pretty well in the transfer market:
1. Tonge - £2million - incredible business!
2. Henderson - £2million - not far off
3. Slew - £1million - Clearly nothing like some people were expecting
4. Lowton - "up to £3million" - Vague, but still great business for a 3rd tier club
5. Blackman - £1.2million - More great business IMO, for a player worth arounf £250k, who can turn that down? I also believe our downturn in form was much more correlated with the loss of miller rather than NB
6. Quinn - Nothing you can do about letting him go. A higher club came in for him, with the chance of over a million in our bank, again, we can't turn that down.

I actually think we have been pretty good in the 'outgoings' department of our transfer policy. Granted, movement inwards has been pretty sh*te, but no one can argue that we got less than the real value for any of the players above. We don't get robbed for players, we just sign some dross!
 



blader did we really get £2m for Henderson? I thought we paid £2m for him (one of Blackwell's crazier decisions) but got much less in order to get his £20k/week wages off the books - rather like Quinn.
 
Balham Blade said:
blader did we really get £2m for Henderson? I thought we paid £2m for him (one of Blackwell's crazier decisions) but got much less in order to get his £20k/week wages off the books - rather like Quinn.
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Actually, no I think you're right. I seem to remember it being quoted around 750k with add-ons, so I do apologise for that error!
 
Balham Blade said:
blader did we really get £2m for Henderson? I thought we paid £2m for him (one of Blackwell's crazier decisions) but got much less in order to get his £20k/week wages off the books - rather like Quinn.
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As I recall, the details were never published, but Foxy said we 'did OK' out of the deal.

The idea of Millwall paying £2m for any player, yet alone that sack of shit, is beyond plausibility. :)
 
blader said:
I actually think we have been pretty good in the 'outgoings' department of our transfer policy.
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Oh, aside from being relegated because we don't have any good players, and being stuck in this league partly as a result of selling good young players, it's been a triumph!
 
Revolution said:
Oh, aside from being relegated because we don't have any good players, and being stuck in this league partly as a result of selling good young players, it's been a triumph!
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We have never been in a position to keep the young players though. The two Kyles were/are premier league players, so as soon as we failed to win promotion, they went to the premier league. Same for Lowton, Jagielka etc.

We have also kept on to Maguire and Long, who are certainly playing below their level. Like I say, we have not been robbed for many players in recent history (can you give me some examples if you think we have?) but it's our signings which have been dire!
 
So let me get this straight, we recieved zero money for the sale of Stephen Quinn? We then recieve 2k every time he plays, for how long? And then get a 6 figure sum if they get promoted?

How much would the likes of Quinn, Lowton, Naughton, and Walker command in transfer fees now? Have the clueless at Bramall Lane inserted sell on fees for our exceptional young talent?

Every club must laugh at us, i dont just mean giggle i mean fucking hysterically laugh...Heres a story about a man called Kevin...SUFC invest x amount of pounds for an academy, they then employ coaches costing x amount of pounds, there is then the cost of time, which has been invested in these young players in order to make our young talent the best they can possibly be. This is a sound buisness plan, we all know Kevin is a buisnessman, and its a sound business plan for one reason and one reason only, the future returns of our academy and our young players in terms of promotion and transfer fees (some talent will inevitably be sound no matter which club you are) are greater than their current costs.

But Kevin isnt as good as a buisnessman as he would like us to think, because what Kevin does, Kevin sees that in 5 years time he could earn £80M (promotion) but what Kevin does is Kevin cashes in now, thereby forgoing the oppurtunity of £80M in 5 years time, for £3M today. Kevin repeats this process every single season. What Kevin doesnt realise is that it will take Kevin 26 years to get to £80M by selling a £3M every year. Kevin isnt very clever.

Kevin then the other night at a fans forum in handsworth has the cheek to say, that other clubs will have to invest the time and money we have in an academy, and therefore SUFC are at an advantage because Kevin has already bought us one. Kevin is very proud of our academy and rightly so. But Kevin is silly, because what Kevin also confirmed to me, you and every fucker else in the footballing world, is that our academy will become a revolving door of player outgoings. So Kevin, no other club is going to build an academy costing x amount of pounds and an x amount of time and employ an x amount of coaches to produce their own young talent Kevin. So SUFC is not ahead of anyone in the footballing world Kevin. And the reason for this Kevin is because they will sit on their backsides and do none of the above occuring zero costs, they will then come and give you Kevin £3M, and in 1 year or 2 years or 3 years, they will receive the £80M that you Kevin decided to forego. Kevin you are a silly man.
 
blader said:
I do think people are often overly critical of our transfer policy.
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The proof of the transfer pudding is in how the team progresses. It doesn't matter a damn what the player we sold goes on to acheive, if their passing (and replacements) weakens the team it is a bad move.
Over the last few seasons the team has been progressively weakened, that is not the sort of policy we can sustain and is indeed shite!
 
Fantastic post JS.

We have never been in a position to keep the young players though. The two Kyles were/are premier league players, so as soon as we failed to win promotion, they went to the premier league. Same for Lowton, Jagielka etc.

Apologist, defeatist crap, and the main reason why we are where we are.

"They are under contract and not for sale" are the words McCabe continually fails to utter and should be using.

Other clubs can do it. So can we if we show some backbone, ambition, and business sense.
 
Hang on that article says "cash strapped blades" but we are getting 500m from a nigerian guy. Whats crack??;)
 
Revolution said:
Fantastic post JS.

We have never been in a position to keep the young players though. The two Kyles were/are premier league players, so as soon as we failed to win promotion, they went to the premier league. Same for Lowton, Jagielka etc.

Apologist, defeatist crap, and the main reason why we are where we are.

"They are under contract and not for sale" are the words McCabe continually fails to utter and should be using.

Other clubs can do it. So can we if we show some backbone, ambition, and business sense.
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'Other clubs do it'. The floor is yours, how many championship clubs have top 6 premier league players on their books? and who are they?
 
Its a sad state of affairs when our players realise that they have to move clubs like Hull to further their careers. Cheers, Mr. McCabe, see what you have reduced us to. :(
 
I don't necessarily think that, because we've had to sell Jags and the Kyles to top top teams this can be used as an overall justification of the transfer policy in recent years. The entire squad in ALL areas has been diluted over time, with the first XI getting gradually weaker and weaker and weaker to the point we're in now. The poorer players we brought in have in turn been replaced by more poorer players, and the cycle continues....
 
There's no point selling your best players if you end up falling down the leagues, to a position where you need to sell your best players to make up the financial shortfall caused by falling down the leagues. We have made good profits on previous player sales, but we still ended up in League 1, is there a correlation?

TWe still have a small club mentality. The idea of a "good bit of business" is when you sell someone useless for more money than you paid, we'd be loaded if that worked. But, when you're in the PL, or trying to get promoted to it, selling your best players will very rarely be good business. Sure, you've made a bit of money, but balance sheets and profit margins don't score you goals on the pitch. I'd argue, long term, as a club that's run up debts of £20M+ plus whatever has been converted to shares, plus the £1M a month shortfall, that all those player sale profits have actually cost us millions more that we've profited from initially.
 



JohnDenver said:
As I recall, the details were never published, but Foxy said we 'did OK' out of the deal.

The idea of Millwall paying £2m for any player, yet alone that sack of shit, is beyond plausibility. :)
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You say crock of shite, but he scores goals in the Championship, which is more than can be said for any of our current crocks.

Also, on your earlier point of good business. You really think that £1.2, paid on the never never is better than getting promoted? The value of promotion even out of this shit pit league has to be in millions for the club.

Don't just take into account what we sold them for but when we sold them. Beattie went when we were pushing for promotion to the Premiership along with almost all the rest of the decent players in that squad. When you fail to get promoted by such a small margin you have to view selling Beattie as a massive mistake because his goals would have most likely harvested the points we needed for promotion.
 
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