We don't 'owe' Wilder anything

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A Storm of Blades said:
Who’s calling for him to be sacked?
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Come on not another one giving all the reasons why he should be sacked but then saying oh I don’t want him sacked though! People need to actually sit back and think about what they want to happen if they get their way and the manager is sacked! Do they realise every single championship club and many premier league clubs would appoint him. Why on earth would you sack the absolute best man for the job after one bad season? It’s ludicrous in my opinion!
 

Robboblade1889 said:
Come on not another one giving all the reasons why he should be sacked but then saying oh I don’t want him sacked though! People need to actually sit back and think about what they want to happen if they get their way and the manager is sacked! Do they realise every single championship club and many premier league clubs would appoint him. Why on earth would you sack the absolute best man for the job after one bad season? It’s ludicrous in my opinion!
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Come on nothing. I don’t want him to be sacked at all. I’m not asking for anything he hasn’t shown he’s capable of. This version of Wilder is not the same one we know and love. That’s who I want in charge.
 
BigBed said:
So I'm guessing you don't read much on here then!?
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I’d say those outright calling for a sacking are less than 1%. It doesn’t help that even the mere mention that he might be responsible for the position we find ourselves in, or it’s madness to suggest we could down with single figure points total and his position can’t be questioned, is met with titty-lip by some. I’m capable of nuance.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
I’d say those outright calling for a sacking are less than 1%. It doesn’t help that even the mere mention that he might be responsible for the position we find ourselves in, or it’s madness to suggest we could down with single figure points total and his position can’t be questioned, is met with titty-lip by some. I’m capable of nuance.
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Once again nobody has any issue with questions being asked at all it’s another myth perpetrated by the Wilder is shot his team selections are shit his tactics are shit but I don’t want him out” brigade! Does he need to find a way to win? Of course he does, I think a lot of games have been very similar to last season except last season we would have put one of those chances away!
It’s last may to say that having no fans is same for every team! We don’t posses any world class players we have a team who work hard as a team if one or two are not on it then it effects us massively! We play with intensity and the crowd is a big factor in that! Do you think we would have more points if fans were in the ground?
 
I’d like to see Chris and Alan there next year in the Championship, and I can’t figure out anyone who could change our fortunes this season.

Yet I have two big questions nagging me about this. First, if we were to go down with very low points tally, and our game doesn’t improve significantly all season – well, it doesn’t, of course, necessarily mean that Wilder would have lost the dressing room, but the psychological impact on players + manager would be huge. At least I should think so. Would the same manager ever be able to rally his team around the flag again?

Secondly, perhaps somewhat out of the line/this issue at hand, I’ve wondered if it is a good long-time strategy for being a manager that one belittles his players almost all the time, makes them fight for the shirt (this one is obviously a normal, sensible thing to do), but then does not appear to have much accountability himself when interviewed. Add to that, has Wilder owned any of the clear and costly mistakes he's made, especially in the transfer market?

Again, I’m just wondering here (based on what I’ve seen in media & social media). So no need to attack me aimlessly.
 
Birley Blade said:
How is it?

We’re bottom of the league with 1 point out of 30. If Burnley win, we’re 7 points from safety after 10 fucking games.

If CW is the “best option” and “nobody could do any better” I dread to think what any other manager could do to us, because it can’t get any fucking worse.
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So can you give us names of the managers you think could do better than he has done and would they come here for the same money and same budget.?Please enlighten us I am really interested in your reply and thoughts.
 
Flying Duck said:
I’d like to see Chris and Alan there next year in the Championship, and I can’t figure out anyone who could change our fortunes this season.

Yet I have two big questions nagging me about this. First, if we were to go down with very low points tally, and our game doesn’t improve significantly all season – well, it doesn’t, of course, necessarily mean that Wilder would have lost the dressing room, but the psychological impact on players + manager would be huge. At least I should think so. Would the same manager ever be able to rally his team around the flag again?

Secondly, perhaps somewhat out of the line/this issue at hand, I’ve wondered if it is a good long-time strategy for being a manager that one belittles his players almost all the time, makes them fight for the shirt (this one is obviously a normal, sensible thing to do), but then does not appear to have much accountability himself when interviewed. Add to that, has Wilder owned any of the clear and costly mistakes he's made, especially in the transfer market?

Again, I’m just wondering here (based on what I’ve seen in media & social media). So no need to attack me aimlessly.
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I understand your comments (though not agreeing with most of them). We are closely compared by the media to Burnley. They didn’t change managers when relegated and their manager brought them back up after galvanising his team again. Who thinks that Wilder is a worse manager than Dyche.....certainly not me. In fact, I think he is more innovative and creative.
 
LenTednTony said:
I understand your comments (though not agreeing with most of them). We are closely compared by the media to Burnley. They didn’t change managers when relegated and their manager brought them back up after galvanising his team again. Who thinks that Wilder is a worse manager than Dyche.....certainly not me. In fact, I think he is more innovative and creative.
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Thanks for seeing my perspective + not abusing me. Not intending to provoke, but I've actually never been that keen in following PL in general, including Burnley; were there some point they had gone without winning some 13 games the season they got relegated? Going down yet still putting up a fight does seems to me to be a good reason to retain a superb manager. I only fear that going down with so-called "negative tactics" and keep on loosing game after game, might not the end product be that the team has lost all confidence, and the manager - how ever bright and excellent he is - won't be able to change this?
 
Flying Duck said:
Thanks for seeing my perspective + not abusing me. Not intending to provoke, but I've actually never been that keen in following PL in general, including Burnley; were there some point they had gone without winning some 13 games the season they got relegated? Going down yet still putting up a fight does seems to me to be a good reason to retain a superb manager. I only fear that going down with so-called "negative tactics" and keep on loosing game after game, might not the end product be that the team has lost all confidence, and the manager - how ever bright and excellent he is - won't be able to change this?
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We are playing sufficiently well to win some of these games or at least draw (as today). We do, I believe, still have confidence in the tactics and the manager . As for losing confidence in him if we get relegated playing the same tactics as got us promoted out of the division we would be dropping in to....why would we?
 
Thought about it, started new thread, still pressed “post”.

could have gone in any of the other Wilder out threads as an opinion piece. If the thread reaches 20 pages, don’t be surprised if he changes his opinion, like he did with Ched.
 
Robboblade1889 said:
Once again nobody has any issue with questions being asked at all it’s another myth perpetrated by the Wilder is shot his team selections are shit his tactics are shit but I don’t want him out” brigade! Does he need to find a way to win? Of course he does, I think a lot of games have been very similar to last season except last season we would have put one of those chances away!
It’s last may to say that having no fans is same for every team! We don’t posses any world class players we have a team who work hard as a team if one or two are not on it then it effects us massively! We play with intensity and the crowd is a big factor in that! Do you think we would have more points if fans were in the ground?
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Really? No one has any issue with questions being asked? The vitriol that’s been spouted towards people asking questions has been completely over the line. The anger and the name calling has perpetuated from largely one side of the aisle. No, I don’t think we’d have more points because we’re acting like competition winners in the toughest league in the world. Successful sides don’t litter the team with square pegs in round holes because we refuse to change formation. Successful teams don’t recruit purely on the basis of a single formation and leave everything in ruins when a single player gets injured. Nor do they blow the majority of their budget on ‘ones for the future’ when the here and now needs serious addresssing. And successful sides tend to get more than 1 point in 50.
 
Flying Duck said:
I’d like to see Chris and Alan there next year in the Championship, and I can’t figure out anyone who could change our fortunes this season.

Yet I have two big questions nagging me about this. First, if we were to go down with very low points tally, and our game doesn’t improve significantly all season – well, it doesn’t, of course, necessarily mean that Wilder would have lost the dressing room, but the psychological impact on players + manager would be huge. At least I should think so. Would the same manager ever be able to rally his team around the flag again?

Secondly, perhaps somewhat out of the line/this issue at hand, I’ve wondered if it is a good long-time strategy for being a manager that one belittles his players almost all the time, makes them fight for the shirt (this one is obviously a normal, sensible thing to do), but then does not appear to have much accountability himself when interviewed. Add to that, has Wilder owned any of the clear and costly mistakes he's made, especially in the transfer market?

Again, I’m just wondering here (based on what I’ve seen in media & social media). So no need to attack me aimlessly.
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I think it’s difficult for him to acknowledge mistakes in the transfer market, because by doing so he’s indirectly (but clearly) criticising the same players he needs to perform.
 

Pedro Verde said:
Can you tell me why we are 'sacrificing success' sticking with Wilder
We are where we are and until we have the financial clout to pay the wages we will as you say sacrifice success
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Because he's picking the wrong teams and playing the wrong tactics, focussing everything around the lazy donkey McBurnie.
Another chance for a win today. Thrown away by a determination to play his favourites regardless.
He's been given too much money and wasted it.
£100 million.
Now I think he's a bit simple and spouts what people feed him - but Alan Biggs says we have two players on £45K a week and Brewster on £30K.
Why did we sign Brewster? (talksport post previous match)
Why did we sign a forward let alone being totally shistered for totally unproven Brewster when the key player we lost was a left footed centre back?
Why did we sign a reserve left back from Derby ( AND WORSE PLAY HIM at Chelsea FFS when he hasn't played first team for nearly a year!) when we had RND and Bryan?
That's incidently what I said about Kean Bryan two years ago when I knew we had RND - who is of course able to play for Wales but not us!
He says we won't go down because of the way the players fought to get us here but then does not play them enough.
Stats on Oli Burke elsewhere interesting. He doesn't score either. Stats on McBurnie would be even more interesting. Like Akinbadbuy and Shipperly I'm sure they would tell the tale. Our slump coincides not only with crowds disappearing but also McBurnie being 'the first name on the teamsheet'. First away last season, now with left side fiascos home and away.
Did anyone think that when Brewster came on for our one quick outlet from ANYWHERE it was going to result in a win for us rather than the inevitable defeat?
Endless bullshit.
Robinson not playing - in the worst defence re clean sheets - in the league because 'he's good defensively' 'but not going forward'.
This from a bloke who's primary aim is to aim everything at McBurnies immobile head and Robinson is the ONLY one in the squad I know who can throw the ball on it.
Then he's not in 'because he's not training well'. It's bollocks. He's just trying to justify his signings. Appalling ones like Lowe, McBurnie and Brewster.
No one will convince me a team like
Ramsdale
Basham Egan Robinson
Baldock Lunny Berge/Norwood Fleck Osborne
Mcgoldrick/Burke Sharp
without the shit he picked and SENSIBLE substitutions rather than pre match planned could not have won today.
Just as v Fulham, WHU and WBA to name others.
We at at the bottom ironically because of money wasted on signings we never expected to have the money to make and CW's insistence he is always right and an insistence on playing them until 'he is right'.
Well it ain't looking like he's right to me with one lucky point and a no 1 forward who is at LAST a regular scorer. Regularly, once every 22 games!
 
A Storm of Blades said:
Really? No one has any issue with questions being asked? The vitriol that’s been spouted towards people asking questions has been completely over the line. The anger and the name calling has perpetuated from largely one side of the aisle. No, I don’t think we’d have more points because we’re acting like competition winners in the toughest league in the world. Successful sides don’t litter the team with square pegs in round holes because we refuse to change formation. Successful teams don’t recruit purely on the basis of a single formation and leave everything in ruins when a single player gets injured. Nor do they blow the majority of their budget on ‘ones for the future’ when the here and now needs serious addresssing. And successful sides tend to get more than 1 point in 50.
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I definitely don’t have issues with these questions being asked. I’ve questioned the odd poster, who’s clearly a pig. But not those making rational criticisms.

I agree with your points on our transfers, which haven’t paid off. We’ve paid too much for youth, for tomorrow. If we can’t compete in the local market, we need to go abroad. These criticisms are fair, in my opinion.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Thought about it, started new thread, still pressed “post”.

could have gone in any of the other Wilder out threads as an opinion piece. If the thread reaches 20 pages, don’t be surprised if he changes his opinion, like he did with Ched.
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Maybe Evans could do a job now!?
 
derekacorah said:
Who would you have instead of Wilder if you had a choice? Name someone we can afford, would come to us and would be an improvement on what we’ve got.
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Who questions Wilder?
That is the problem!
It's no one.
Everybody said in the Fulham game all our players were shagged in the second half and we were lucky to get a point.
I said BEFORE the game that with such a poor team as Fulham (pre signings) we should have spent two weeks preparing with those NOT away travelling all over Europe and slot in the few key players we did needed ie Ramsdale (for verrups) Egan (for Jags) Enda Stevens ( for Bryant ) and someone alongside Billy Sharp eg MGoldrich if fit or Burke who never plays.
ie as per today something like this

Ramsdale
Basham Egan Robinson
Baldock Lunny Norwood Osborne Stevens
Mcgoldrick/Burke Sharp.

Instead they did nothing apparently for two weeks and he cobbled a team together using all the internationals, as usual his current favourites.

He had the same opportunity pre WHU game. This time with Egan back earlier and McGoldrich staying here.
Did anyone question what he had planned for the two weeks?
No.
So again he wasted it - the U23's playing Blackburn not the first team!

Again he cobbled together a 'team' of his favourites who had travelled some 13K miles for the Scots lads and surprize surprize they lost again

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

THIS IS AMATEURISH.
So is having favourite players and not selecting on merit.

That is why on seeing the team pre WHU I said he should be sacked.

Who do we want to replace him? Well nobody thought about it!
Nobody thought he could be this shite, this pig headed, this ******* useless!
No goals in 20 games. No goals for the team. "Meh. I signed him. I believe in him. I'm playing him"

I can tell you why he does NOT have a long term future.
1. He wastes money on shite. It's like the Civil Service. I have £x. I have to spend it all ASAP regardless.
2. He does not develop young players (well our's anyway) but gives them away for peanuts, presumably as with signings not recognizing who are real talents.
How can he ever produce a top team?

I always liked Paul Warne but too soon.
Sam Alladyce is the only name I see. No thanks. We want rid of the lazy donkey McBurnie not another hoofball merchant.
I was one of the first to think CW would be a choice for here. Back at Oxford the way he totally turned it round.
We are looking for an up and coming manager to either turn it around now and or immediately return.
We have one point. We won't be making signings - unless from the third or below - we will be selling due to the massive losses. Loan players will be taken away eg Ampadu rather than have their careers set back by a devastating season.

The only one that occurs to me is Paul Cook. (That would really P wendy fans off)
Always done well at the lower leagues and 6 of his young players were transferred to the Premier League in the Wigan firesale.
That to me suggests he can develop young players. Or at least someone can at Wigan

It's all pie in the sky though. No one is even thinking about it.
It's head in the sand, close eyes and hope it turns around.
#InWilderWeTrust cult mindless bollocks.

With one point miles behind, no crowd to please does it matter?
Well yes it does but in this more and more hopeless position the less hope there is of a sensible change.

ps Paul Heckingbottom? from Barnsley and Leeds is already here in charge of the U-23's.
He at least seemed to know how to develop young players and make good signings - that would be an improvement.
We may have some more good young lads coming through?
Apart from RND that is.
 
FMBlade1 said:
This probably won't go down well with some (or most), but then it's a forum not a popularity contest. It's just to add some balance. I imagine some will just read the title then dig in though I urge you to read on before you do;

Wilder has done very well working for SUFC. We took him from Northampton Town to give him the most significant job he has ever had with one of the best budgets in the league. Whilst it was true he may have/could have gone to Charlton, even if he had they were in a tricky position with their owners etc. so definitely dodged a bullet by not becoming their manager instead.

During his time here he has had two new contracts. Thoroughly deserved of course. And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

---

Now I totally understand the argument that we should not consider his position this season so we can bounce back up like Burnley, West Brom or as Norwich are currently doing.

Where things get a bit hazy imho is when people say things like 'We owe it to him to see out the season in the PL' or 'He deserves the chance to take us back up', or 'We shouldn't sack him no matter what'

I understand what people mean by that, but the consideration should be: Is him being our manager definitely in our best interests, or would an alternative be more viable?

It's not about Wilder, but about the club. Loyalty is of course an admirable quality but shouldn't entirely shape our direction. Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

Not for a moment am I saying that he should go at this current stage. He is the best person currently to see us through these difficult times. However we don't 'owe' him anything and can't let that affect our future direction.

Of course eternally grateful for the fantastic job he has done here, though that is not the same thing.

Onwards and upwards soon with a result tomorrow,

UTB!
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We owe him fucking everything
 
Hi, Stegosaurus here

I trust Wilder to right the ship.
 
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When Mr Wilder decided that Duffy was no longer needed at the club because of his daring to ask for a new deal on getting promoted to the Premiership it was regarded as a sign of a strong manager upholding the interests of the club. How he must wish now for a player who can "dribble", beat a defender & score the odd goal. The current squad has nobody IMO who has the ball control , balance & speed of thought required to "frighten" defenders. I'm not suggesting that he didn't have other reasons for dispensing with Duffys services but not to look for a replacement was a blind spot which has, & will, have bad consequences
 
Stegosaurus said:
I actualky think a draw vs Leicester could have been the turning point. But now ... cant see it
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It's why I criticized Egan so strongly on here for not Rugby tackling Vardy and allowing him to score.
 

Eddie odd legs said:
When Mr Wilder decided that Duffy was no longer needed at the club because of his daring to ask for a new deal on getting promoted to the Premiership it was regarded as a sign of a strong manager upholding the interests of the club. How he must wish now for a player who can "dribble", beat a defender & score the odd goal. The current squad has nobody IMO who has the ball control , balance & speed of thought required to "frighten" defenders. I'm not suggesting that he didn't have other reasons for dispensing with Duffys services but not to look for a replacement was a blind spot which has, & will, have bad consequences
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I've suggested Jack Wilshere, but that clearly isn't going to happen so will leave it there.

Lundstram gets treated differently to Duffy because their is no alternative.

Besides Lundstram is smart and saw this coming, he'll leave on a free and go to Newcastle or Villa as a home grown player on 50k a week with a massive signing on bonus while we go down.

Berge was not the midfielder we needed. Freeman would have been good for the championship, no evidence he would cut it at PL
 
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