Ownership, diminishing returns & the future of SUFC

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ThatJa

ThatJa

Bigger Blade than United's Arab Emirate
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First things first, this is not a Chris Wilder out thread, nor will it ever be, from me.

Prince won the battle of ownership in the middle of arguably the greatest period in our history, 2 promotions within 3 years, fans and club connection back stronger than ever and its all good, what a time to be a Blade.

Success (depending on how you view success) never lasts forever, and every single football club on the planet goes through a spell of months, years, even decades without success (you can go back to the Chelsea's, Man United's, Arsenal's etc). Prince upon winning the battle he won it at a time where he would really have to do something outrageous to balls it all up, and of course he is definitely not to blame for the 10 game winless run, far from it, I've been very impressed with his running of the club so far.

Looking onto the future though, his decisions will be key for the direction the club goes in, he's backed Chris Wilder, who's been very vocal and on numerous occasions has said he would walk should he not be backed, but there may become a time where the Prince needs to say no to XXX players because of track record, where would that leave Chris? Would he walk? (this is an example scenario)

It is now his most important period in charge of this Football club for Prince Abdullah, his decisions moving forward are decisions that Chairmen will always get praised for when its correct but absolutely slated when its not. Look at our neighbours, Chansiri came in and was loved for 2 years (couldn't do no wrong) but decisions since then have made him an enemy within their fan base. I would definitely like to think Prince Abdullah knows a lot more football than the one across the City, and fortunately for us in his interviews, he seems like a football guy.

Having said that, it does still worry me.
 

JL94x4 said:
First things first, this is not a Chris Wilder out thread, nor will it ever be, from me.

Prince won the battle of ownership in the middle of arguably the greatest period in our history, 2 promotions within 3 years, fans and club connection back stronger than ever and its all good, what a time to be a Blade.

Success (depending on how you view success) never lasts forever, and every single football club on the planet goes through a spell of months, years, even decades without success (you can go back to the Chelsea's, Man United's, Arsenal's etc). Prince upon winning the battle he won it at a time where he would really have to do something outrageous to balls it all up, and of course he is definitely not to blame for the 10 game winless run, far from it, I've been very impressed with his running of the club so far.

Looking onto the future though, his decisions will be key for the direction the club goes in, he's backed Chris Wilder, who's been very vocal and on numerous occasions has said he would walk should he not be backed, but there may become a time where the Prince needs to say no to XXX players because of track record, where would that leave Chris? Would he walk? (this is an example scenario)

It is now his most important period in charge of this Football club for Prince Abdullah, his decisions moving forward are decisions that Chairmen will always get praised for when its correct but absolutely slated when its not. Look at our neighbours, Chansiri came in and was loved for 2 years (couldn't do no wrong) but decisions since then have made him an enemy within their fan base. I would definitely like to think Prince Abdullah knows a lot more football than the one across the City, and fortunately for us in his interviews, he seems like a football guy.

Having said that, it does still worry me.
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Sounds like I don't want to rock the boat type thread but also wouldn't really mind if Wilder was axed type thread.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Sounds like I don't want to rock the boat type thread but also wouldn't really mind if Wilder was axed type thread.
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Absolutely not, and you're making dumb assumptions. Its more about the decisions Prince makes from here will make or break our next few seasons. Its easy to make decisions when your club is winning more than they're losing. When you reverse that, that's when pressure mounts and it means decisions may need to be made.

As in my example, Wilder could well choose to walk as a result of a decision Prince makes.

Also if I thought Wilder should be sacked, I'd say that.
 
JL94x4 said:
Absolutely not, and you're making dumb assumptions. Its more about the decisions Prince makes from here will make or break our next few seasons. Its easy to make decisions when your club is winning more than they're losing. When you reverse that, that's when pressure mounts and it means decisions may need to be made.

As in my example, Wilder could well choose to walk as a result of a decision Prince makes.
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Like what?
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Like what?
Click to expand...

Decisions such as

  • Do you plough more money into the team, even though the last 150m hasn't been a massive success?
  • Do you stick with a manager that has not won a game in the last 10 PL games
  • Do you start looking at selling some of your biggest assets to help balance the books if we go down

They're all the decisions the board/chairman/owner has to make, and are all decisions that affect the future of the football club.

I'm not saying any of these decisions need making right now but in future, they might.
 
JL94x4 said:
Decisions such as

  • Do you plough more money into the team, even though the last 150m hasn't been a massive success?
  • Do you stick with a manager that has not won a game in the last 10 PL games
  • Do you start looking at selling some of your biggest assets to help balance the books if we go down

They're all the decisions the board/chairman/owner has to make, and are all decisions that affect the future of the football club.

I'm not saying any of these decisions need making right now but in future, they might.
Click to expand...

So you basically have given up on Wilder and are putting hypothetical thinking in Abdullahs name.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
So you basically have given up on Wilder and are putting hypothetical thinking in Abdullahs name.
Click to expand...

Do you think I'd skirt round it if I thought that was the case? When have I ever not been totally honest on my opinion? If I thought Wilder had done all he could and should be removed, I'd say that.

I think Wilder is the right man for this job, he's a United fan so is hurting just as much as we are, but if you asked me that same question in 15 games and we were still at the bottom of the table you may get a different answer than I'm giving today.

This thread is about the future decisions Prince may have to make than could affect our future.

Another good example, Carlos got sacked over the city, and since then they've gone WAY down hill, I would say if you polled 10,000 Wednesday fans on whether that was the right decision looking back, I'd say 70-80% would say no, and that decision has affected their future (as funny as that is for us)
 
JL94x4 said:
Do you think I'd skirt round it if I thought that was the case? When have I ever not been totally honest on my opinion? If I thought Wilder had done all he could and should be removed, I'd say that.

I think Wilder is the right man for this job, he's a United fan so is hurting just as much as we are, but if you asked me that same question in 15 games and we were still at the bottom of the table you may get a different answer than I'm giving today.

This thread is about the future decisions Prince may have to make than could affect our future.

Another good example, Carlos got sacked over the city, and since then they've gone WAY down hill, I would say if you polled 10,000 Wednesday fans on whether that was the right decision looking back, I'd say 70-80% would say no, and that decision has affected their future (as funny as that is for us)
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In Wilder we trust!
 
I’m not really sure what point you’re making. The Prince has given Wilder pretty decent backing. We’ve spent more than some other clubs. That investment now needs to start showing some return on the pitch, which is down to Wilder, Knill and the players.
 
to give my two pence if it matters, at the end of the day Chris can’t ask for too much more from the board without results first and foremost, he has been backed to the hilt and now it needs to show on the pitch this season. Luckily we’re nowhere near those tough decisions you mention yet... i see the point you are making but i think its a little early to worry about this, CWAK will get the points on the board, and will justify another window of epl spending next year... have faith ⚔️
 

We aren’t spending big on players. £20m buys very average premier league players. £20m on low (relative) wages buys good prospects that are currently average.

We’ve made huge strides to bring on a team that came from England’s third tier. But if anyone thinks we’ve spent big, they should think again.
 
Are you basically just saying that we are in good shape overall, with a great owner and manager, but are just having a bad run?

I have highlighted what could have been the polar opposite of your thread title, whilst still making the same point.
 
JL94x4 said:
First things first, this is not a Chris Wilder out thread, nor will it ever be, from me.

Prince won the battle of ownership in the middle of arguably the greatest period in our history, 2 promotions within 3 years, fans and club connection back stronger than ever and its all good, what a time to be a Blade.

Success (depending on how you view success) never lasts forever, and every single football club on the planet goes through a spell of months, years, even decades without success (you can go back to the Chelsea's, Man United's, Arsenal's etc). Prince upon winning the battle he won it at a time where he would really have to do something outrageous to balls it all up, and of course he is definitely not to blame for the 10 game winless run, far from it, I've been very impressed with his running of the club so far.

Looking onto the future though, his decisions will be key for the direction the club goes in, he's backed Chris Wilder, who's been very vocal and on numerous occasions has said he would walk should he not be backed, but there may become a time where the Prince needs to say no to XXX players because of track record, where would that leave Chris? Would he walk? (this is an example scenario)

It is now his most important period in charge of this Football club for Prince Abdullah, his decisions moving forward are decisions that Chairmen will always get praised for when its correct but absolutely slated when its not. Look at our neighbours, Chansiri came in and was loved for 2 years (couldn't do no wrong) but decisions since then have made him an enemy within their fan base. I would definitely like to think Prince Abdullah knows a lot more football than the one across the City, and fortunately for us in his interviews, he seems like a football guy.

Having said that, it does still worry me.
Click to expand...
Conversely, the Prince could decide to make Wilders job for easier, by improving the wage structure and making more funds available for future transfers.
He (the Prince) might have to bring more revenue in to achieve this.
I doubt he would go the other way and sell players, or sack Wilder because he does not seem to be that kind of owner.
The other alternative is to find a partnership with a wealthy friend, or sell the club to someone who could improve us financially.
By concentrating on just one option, you are, naively tying your flag to that option.

As an aside, Wilder has considerable experience of managing clubs in financial doldrums, and still producing good football sides, albeit at a much lower level.
 
The question for the club and fans is whether we want to be another Burnley. Their owner hasn't had to put a penny of his own in, they work with a wage cap and everything is funded from within the profits and cash flows of the club. I'd be happy with that as a PL team. I've said before that if we receive £100m+ a year (I know this season might be different) in revenue then we should be able to sustain a PL club by adding a select few players on an annual basis. It will take very clever recruitment but it's possible.

On the flip side, if all we can aspire to is 'being Burnley' then I'd rather us yo-yo and have a bit of fun every few years with a promotion push. The problem with that is that when you don't get promoted you end up like the Pigs.
 
Charlieblade said:
Conversely, the Prince could decide to make Wilders job for easier, by improving the wage structure and making more funds available for future transfers.
He (the Prince) might have to bring more revenue in to achieve this.
I doubt he would go the other way and sell players, or sack Wilder because he does not seem to be that kind of owner.
The other alternative is to find a partnership with a wealthy friend, or sell the club to someone who could improve us financially.
By concentrating on just one option, you are, naively tying your flag to that option.

As an aside, Wilder has considerable experience of managing clubs in financial doldrums, and still producing good football sides, albeit at a much lower level.
Click to expand...
Playing devils advocate here, but we have spent 130m in the last 3 windows, agree the wage structure hasn't changed much, but I believe this is for the better short term.

If you was princey, considering what's been served up since Jan (we've spent 70m in that period) would you be willing to part with even more cash? I wouldn't.
 
Whilst it can be argued (not asserted like the OP) that the Prince has backed Wilder in the Premier League, it doesn't make up for the previous three years of having very little backing pre premier league. Our recruitment this season has majorly focused on patching up positions that have needed sorting two to three years ago (left wing back competition, right wing back competition, perm goalkeeper, striker, centre back (unfortunately still only a loan). We still haven't sorted the left sided centre back position either, despite Wilder publicly wanting this sorting. For Wilder to have been backed, budgets would have to have been much higher to make up for the skint/underinvestment years. If we go down that will be the main reason: Instead of increasing the quality of other areas we are still patching up long term issues. Be in no doubt, if the injuries came last season we'd be playing Championship football this season. If they came in the Championship we wouldn't have got promoted.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong but I suspect the OP is considering the clubs present predicament from a purely business and a return on investment perspective.

The facts as stated in respect of the level of investment in players & the increase in wages over the past 18 months is not insignificant add to that the mortgage taken out to buy the freehold from the previous owner, take the total investment to circa £200m.

The present owner will undoubtedly want to protect his investment and thus from his perspective maintaining PL status is, I would suggest, critical.

Recent results haven’t been great - lots of reasons I accept, but in any business and this is business for the Prince, the management of risk, protection of investments, business growth and return on investment are key metrics.
 
Brian Deane said:
Is it about promoting dodgy streams that don't work and fleecing fellow blades for the non privilege ? If not I've no idea either 😄
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If that’s a reference to securely live (not sure which one he is associated with) I have to say in fairness that whilst not perfect it has generally worked very well for me.
 
Charlieblade said:
As an aside, Wilder has considerable experience of managing clubs in financial doldrums, and still producing good football sides, albeit at a much lower level.
Click to expand...

You might argue that this is where he's actually had all of his success.

It's the other bit - managing a club with money to spend at the highest level - that is still open to debate.
 

Yeah but, no but, yeah.

Some proper bonding going off on here isn't there.
 
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