Fan reaction - McGoldrick v Rammers v Norwood

[Champagneblade]

Just curious as to why people think there has been such a contrasting reaction?

Remember when David McGoldrick went all those weeks and months without scoring? Most shots without a goal, Striker that doesn't strike etc? He just couldn't bag as much as he tried then there was elation when he scored not ice but twice vs Chelsea and he's gone on to notch against pretty much only top 6 opposition and sits firmly as top scorer now.

He received universal support that almost brought the bloke to tears.

In contrast, Rammers has been getting pelters from very early on.

Despite being one of our best players in the promotion season and for a large portion of last season did very well, Norwood has also been on the receiving end of some very harsh criticism.

I'd say that McGoldrick's performance was still pretty good despite him not fulfilling his primary function as a striker, but why do you think he got so much patience yet the other two have seemed to come under pressure very quickly?

 

[Stevo]

Mcgoldrick offered a lot more than just goals, Norwood offers nothing, he is stealing a place in the side, ramsdale, as much as I don't want to criticise, offers nothing. The amount of errors he has made but still keeps his place is astounding

 

[west_yorks_blade]

The difference between Didsy and Norwood as outfield players is easy to explain.

One puts a shift in, shows effort, determination and enthusiasm and gives a shit, the other doesn’t.

 

[Beans]

Just curious as to why people think there has been such a contrasting reaction?

Remember when David McGoldrick went all those weeks and months without scoring? Most shots without a goal, Striker that doesn't strike etc? He just couldn't bag as much as he tried then there was elation when he scored not ice but twice vs Chelsea and he's gone on to notch against pretty much only top 6 opposition and sits firmly as top scorer now.

He received universal support that almost brought the bloke to tears.

In contrast, Rammers has been getting pelters from very early on.

Despite being one of our best players in the promotion season and for a large portion of last season did very well, he's also been on the receiving end of some very harsh criticism.

I'd say that McGoldrick's performance was still pretty good despite him not fulfilling his primary function as a striker, but why do you think he got so much patience yet the other two have seemed to come under pressure very quickly?

Probably simplistic but McGoldrick was a) a free transfer and b) had credit in the bank from the Championship season. Ramsdale comes with a big price tag (not his fault) and is "new". I'd throw in the fact he was only an average keeper for Bournemouth but to be honest if he'd been a good PL keeper last season he'd possibly be getting even more stick for his performances than he is currently. The goalkeeper position is also much easier to scrutinise than a striker, as a mistake that leads to a goal sticks in the mind far more than a missed chance.

You haven't mentioned Norwood in the actual OP but I'd say it's a combination of when he loses the ball, it often leads to a chance because of where he is on the pitch (a bit like a keeper, and as good as he's been up to this point, this has happened right through his Blades career), and the fact he was REALLY good for almost two full seasons and has dropped off a cliff.

 

[Stretch]

Didsy has always worked his socks off, even when things aren't going well. He also adds a touch of flair to our game.

Norwood had been incredible for 1.5 seasons, but I think many were getting tired of his lack of physicality, and this is now the main talking point as the team is really struggling in midfield.

Rammers, well he isn't Henderson, and was on a hiding to nothing from minute 1 with some of our supporters. Sadly, the nerves have now got to him. God help the lad when the crowds are back. I have no doubt he will be in for the same treatment Long got, i.e. red faced, grown men bounding down the Kop steps to call him a uselss c**t after every mistake.

 

[Champagneblade]

Probably simplistic but McGoldrick was a) a free transfer and b) had credit in the bank from the Championship season. Ramsdale comes with a big price tag (not his fault) and is "new". I'd throw in the fact he was only an average keeper for Bournemouth but to be honest if he'd been a good PL keeper last season he'd possibly be getting even more stick for his performances than he is currently. The goalkeeper position is also much easier to scrutinise than a striker, as a mistake that leads to a goal sticks in the mind far more than a missed chance.

You haven't mentioned Norwood in the actual OP but I'd say it's a combination of when he loses the ball, it often leads to a chance because of where he is on the pitch (a bit like a keeper, and as good as he's been up to this point, this has happened right through his Blades career), and the fact he was REALLY good for almost two full seasons and has dropped off a cliff.

Yes, sorry the penultimate paragraph was about Norwood but I forgot to mention his name. Edited back.

His form has dropped off but you would expect him to have credit in the bank.

Maybe with him it's that he's a bit thick skinned. Which is good but the way he interviewed after the Palace game as if the goal was just a mistake by the team and not directly his fault wasn't really the time to not be taking one on the chin.

 

[Selly]

I think a lot of it can be put down to the relative feeling around the club.

Its a LOT easy to be forgiving of a player who has fallen a short in a winning team or a team doing well - simply because it isn`t costing you.

At the moment we are not a winning team (stop the press!) - so every mistake is scrutinised and amplified.

When you then layer in that the effort was never in question from Didzy, whereas Norwood at times doesn`t look "bothered".

Ramsdale had a poisoned chalice - whoever came after Henderson was (most likely) going to be worse - however he absolutely hasn`t helped himself, he's dropped some absolute clangers - not all of which have lead to goals - but some have. And we paid £10-15m for him. I for one am sat here looking at the gap at LCB and in midfield and thinking that surely Verrips + spending that cash on a need in the outfield instead would, in hindsight, surely have been better.

 

[Foody]

Everyone will claim it is down to 'overall performance', I think the reality is much more simple: we were still winning football games. Had McGoldrick missed those chances this season he'd be getting slated.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[jalfie69]

Just curious as to why people think there has been such a contrasting reaction?

Remember when David McGoldrick went all those weeks and months without scoring? Most shots without a goal, Striker that doesn't strike etc? He just couldn't bag as much as he tried then there was elation when he scored not ice but twice vs Chelsea and he's gone on to notch against pretty much only top 6 opposition and sits firmly as top scorer now.

He received universal support that almost brought the bloke to tears.

In contrast, Rammers has been getting pelters from very early on.

Despite being one of our best players in the promotion season and for a large portion of last season did very well, Norwood has also been on the receiving end of some very harsh criticism.

I'd say that McGoldrick's performance was still pretty good despite him not fulfilling his primary function as a striker, but why do you think he got so much patience yet the other two have seemed to come under pressure very quickly?

Main reason for me is that we were playing well and winning so we had sympathy with McGoldrick, unlike this season playing poorly and losing every week. McGoldrick would be getting a lot of grief if his goal scoring form was the same as it was last season and everyone would be calling for him to be dropped.

 

[BongoBlitzface]

Everyone will claim it is down to 'overall performance', I think the reality is much more simple: we were still winning football games. Had McGoldrick missed those chances this season he'd be getting slated.

Exactly. Look how happy everyone after the Newcastle win, and contrast that to the loss against Spurs.

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

As others had said, last season we were getting results.

Having said that, McGoldrick got plenty of shit on here. Even in our promotion season, when he was POTY, people would start threads about him being not good enough, doesn't score enough etc.

 

[SilkyBlade]

I think a lot of it can be put down to the relative feeling around the club.

Its a LOT easy to be forgiving of a player who has fallen a short in a winning team or a team doing well - simply because it isn`t costing you.

At the moment we are not a winning team (stop the press!) - so every mistake is scrutinised and amplified.

When you then layer in that the effort was never in question from Didzy, whereas Norwood at times doesn`t look "bothered".

Ramsdale had a poisoned chalice - whoever came after Henderson was (most likely) going to be worse - however he absolutely hasn`t helped himself, he's dropped some absolute clangers - not all of which have lead to goals - but some have. And we paid £10-15m for him. I for one am sat here looking at the gap at LCB and in midfield and thinking that surely Verrips + spending that cash on a need in the outfield instead would, in hindsight, surely have been better.

I don’t think it’s a question of Norwood being bothered (he did after all quit NI to prolong club career) it’s genuine fear in his play.He now knows a simple mistake often ends up with a goal or shot on goal and quite often he doesn’t offer an option in midfield when the opposition effect a high press. Newcastle game no problem because they were useless!

 

[Nah den]

I think it's a perception of effort. McG loses the ball and tears around trying to get it back, also where he loses it on the pitch we don't tend to get immediately punished. Norwood's lack of athleticism is being punished now, can't make mistakes on the edge of your own box and get away with it. When he does lose it he doesn't always look desperate to get it back.

I was one of those who was a bit disappointed that we signed Ramsdale over that Turkish guy who we were also apparently close to signing. Not because I knew loads about the Turk, but because I'd seen a fair bit of Ramsdale the previous season. But, he deserved a clean slate, everyone behind him at the start of the season. He just makes too many mistakes for a keeper. He saves the majority of basic, regulation saves, but none of the more difficult ones. I feel sorry for the guy because his effort shouldn't be questioned, but he's in professional sport, is paid accordingly and therefore has to accept the scrutiny that comes with that. It'd be great if he had an outstanding performance, made some match winning save in the last minute (see Henderson at Norwich last season, what a save), give him confidence and maybe get the monkey off his back. I'm just unsure if he's capable of it.

 

[Selly]

When he does lose it he doesn't always look desperate to get it back.

This - I'm not doubting he's committed - but if he could actually look like it when he loses the ball 30 yards out it would be awfully nice.

He saves the majority of basic, regulation saves, but none of the more difficult ones.

I'm not even that bothered about this - saving difficult shots is by definition, difficult.

What I do have an issue with is:
- flapping at corners/crosses
- not being committed to get the ball when coming out & challenging a player with the ball (see examples v Chelsea, Spurs and Man U)
- the atrocious level of kicking ability (an area I genuinely thought he might be better than Henderson on, and sadly not)

The above things mean his defence have zero confidence in him, which leads to bad decision making on their part (see Bogle v Newcastle)

 

[gordoncharles]

All it proves is that most fans are, to be blunt, pricks.

They demand loyalty from the players but show absolutely none back when they're struggling.

With McGoldrick last season it wasn't all about goals and most could see his overall creativity but the team was getting good results so it didn't matter so much. There would have been a lot less love if we'd been fighting relegation.

In Ramsdale's case, as it is with practically any other player, it's not his fault if he's not good enough. Blame those who signed him and continue to include him in the side.

 

[Snowflake]

Just curious as to why people think there has been such a contrasting reaction?

Remember when David McGoldrick went all those weeks and months without scoring? Most shots without a goal, Striker that doesn't strike etc? He just couldn't bag as much as he tried then there was elation when he scored not ice but twice vs Chelsea and he's gone on to notch against pretty much only top 6 opposition and sits firmly as top scorer now.

He received universal support that almost brought the bloke to tears.

In contrast, Rammers has been getting pelters from very early on.

Despite being one of our best players in the promotion season and for a large portion of last season did very well, Norwood has also been on the receiving end of some very harsh criticism.

I'd say that McGoldrick's performance was still pretty good despite him not fulfilling his primary function as a striker, but why do you think he got so much patience yet the other two have seemed to come under pressure very quickly?

Simply human behaviour
Last season was great so everyone happy and prepared to accept any deficiencies
This year fans are sad, angry and disappointed so need someone to blame. Why not blame the keeper who has conceded less goals from his errors than his predecessor

 

[Selly]

Why not blame the keeper who has conceded less goals from his errors than his predecessor

Please show your workings on that one.

I can only recall Hendersons error vs Liverpool last year.

I can think of at least 2 goals I'd directly attribute to Ramsdale (Chelsea's second, Man U 3rd) plus others where I'd raise my eyebrow...

 

[varkanoid]

The player who couldnt score (despite his best efforts) last season when we were winning is now our top scorer when we are not winning.
He became a cult hero as we all love a trier.

Just look at what Norwood did when he lost the ball resulting in Kane's goal, he slowly jogs back no attempt to rectify his mistake.

In the same match look at what Didzy did when he lost the ball in their half. He ran his socks off getting back to try and rectify his mistake and nearly did.

With Ramsdale just look at any catalogue of errors, the mis kick, the flapping attempt etc etc etc.

 

[Snowflake]

Please show your workings on that one.

I can only recall Hendersons error vs Liverpool last year.

I can think of at least 2 goals I'd directly attribute to Ramsdale (Chelsea's second, Man U 3rd) plus others where I'd raise my eyebrow...

Several at Henderson’s near post throughout the season and one for us this season

 

[Stegosaurus]

Hi Stegosaurus here

Because McG played well even when he didn't score and, more importantly, always put the effort in. It's why Burke doesn't get criticised despite missing sitters. He puts the effort in.

 

[coaxingstar71]

McGoldrick was key to our performances last season, it was obvious we played better as a team with him in it and although he struggled to score, he was involved in many of our goals, Baldock's goal at Spurs being a good example. Trouble is with Norwood, he's not really creating anything and has been directly responsible for conceding goals, added to the fact we are losing every week. Problem is, we don't currently have a suitable replacement without leaving us vulnerable elsewhere.

With keepers, any mistake they make invariably leads to a goal, however must admit that I have no confidence when the ball goes anywhere near Ramsdale.

 

[Flying Duck]

For sure the fact that we were not losing games and on a way to go down as the worst PL team ever worked in McGoldrick's favour when he missed many serious sitters. But I see that only as a partial explanation. To illustrate a point some I reckon have already made in this thread, concentrate on watching McG on this one you've otherwise most likely already seen a few times:

 

[CentralQuay]

For sure the fact that we were not losing games and on a way to go down as the worst PL team ever worked in McGoldrick's favour when he missed many serious sitters. But I see that only as a partial explanation. To illustrate a point some I reckon have already made in this thread, concentrate on watching McG on this one you've otherwise most likely already seen a few times:

The most glaringly obvious difference in that clip is Tottenham.

They set back, never pressed and made it easy.
The other day they pressed from the first time they lost the ball and went 1-0 up almost immediately and carried on pressing.

The passing in that clip was just as slow and ponderous as this season, the difference was the players were given more space.
Sides don't show as much respect as they did last season.

 

[Camden Blade]

McGoldrick was never a liability. The other two are.

 

[CentralQuay]

McGoldrick was never a liability. The other two are.

Lets not change what was said last season with regards to the midfield, specifically Fleck/Norwood and about how good they were.

People were genuinely buying into the transfer rumours that Arsenal and other clubs wanted Fleck.

 

[Camden Blade]

Lets not change what was said last season with regards to the midfield, specifically Fleck/Norwood and about how good they were.

People were genuinely buying into the transfer rumours that Arsenal and other clubs wanted Fleck.

I wasn't thinking of Fleck. I think we should still stick with Fleck. His ball to Didzy for the goal. He's shown signs of his old self recently. The question is why are Ramsdale and Norwood getting such stick. It's because they're mistakes are costing us points and games. Didzy's barren spell didn't cost us games. He still made a positive contribution.

 

[CentralQuay]

I wasn't thinking of Fleck. I think we should still stick with Fleck. His ball to Didzy for the goal. He's shown signs of his old self recently. The question is why are Ramsdale and Norwood getting such stick. It's because they're mistakes are costing us points and games. Didzy's barren spell didn't cost us games. He still made a positive contribution.

Didzy has the most well rounded game of the strikers in the squad.
But he still isn't the answer to any PL front line.

 

[Flying Duck]

The most glaringly obvious difference in that clip is Tottenham.

They set back, never pressed and made it easy.
The other day they pressed from the first time they lost the ball and went 1-0 up almost immediately and carried on pressing.

The passing in that clip was just as slow and ponderous as this season, the difference was the players were given more space.
Sides don't show as much respect as they did last season.

So, in essence, our team was sh*te, McGoldrick is sh*te, and it was all down to mere luck (I agree it did lay a role) we finished as high as we did last season. Okay, then.

 

[CentralQuay]

So, in essence, our team was sh*te, McGoldrick is sh*te, and it was all down to mere luck (I agree it did lay a role) we finished as high as we did last season. Okay, then.

I'm not sure where I said last season was 'lucky'.

I'm just explaining what my eyes see in that clip compared to the Spurs game the other day.