Punching Goalkeepers

[William Henry Foulkes]

A couple of posters have highlighted Long's connection with the ball from a Scunthorpe cross yesterday and either called it a mistake or, similarly, a flap. I'm not convinced it was either.

When the ball comes into the box in descending order of preference I reckon the keeper can

1. Catch
2. Punch a long way
3. Punch not so far
4. Divert the path of the ball - this stops any opposition players making clean contact and is the first line of defence in stopping us conceding a goal as runs, headers, shots become mistimed even by a slight touch on the ball
5. Miss it completely - see Billy's goal v Coventry

Long's working environment is chaotic, diverting the path of the ball will occasionally be the best any keeper can do (eg if his path to the ball is not clear), and it stops an immediate goal, after that it's the job of the defence - keeper included - to keep the ball out of the net. This often looks very exciting (oohs and aahs), but as long as the players are in position and committed to challenges they've got a very good chance of keeping the ball out.

This is exactly what happened yesterday.

Goalkeeping is obviously a specialist position, and I'd be interested to hear from any coaches or anyone who's been coached in that position whether they think Long's efforts were a "flap".


A chaotic working environment*

*Fwiw I heard Chris Boardman talk about Cav's sprints like this once - a great description.

 

[Houston_Blade]

A couple of posters have highlighted Long's connection with the ball from a Scunthorpe cross yesterday and either called it a mistake or, similarly, a flap. I'm not convinced it was either.

When the ball comes into the box in descending order of preference I reckon the keeper can

1. Catch
2. Punch a long way
3. Punch not so far
4. Divert the path of the ball - this stops any opposition players making clean contact and is the first line of defence in stopping us conceding a goal as runs, headers, shots become mistimed even by a slight touch on the ball
5. Miss it completely - see Billy's goal v Coventry

Long's working environment is chaotic, diverting the path of the ball will occasionally be the best any keeper can do (eg if his path to the ball is not clear), and it stops an immediate goal, after that it's the job of the defence - keeper included - to keep the ball out of the net. This often looks very exciting (oohs and aahs), but as long as the players are in position and committed to challenges they've got a very good chance of keeping the ball out.

This is exactly what happened yesterday.

Goalkeeping is obviously a specialist position, and I'd be interested to hear from any coaches or anyone who's been coached in that position whether they think Long's efforts were a "flap".

View attachment 14939
A chaotic working environment*

*Fwiw I heard Chris Boardman talk about Cav's sprints like this once - a great description.

The phrase made me laugh but it's hardly the toy workshop in the North Pole is it?! As for flapping/punching it may be new balls or just a new method of coaching but it's he preferred method of many nowadays.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Punching Goalkeepers

Oh go on then

Can I punch Steve Simonsen?

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Whatever George is doing, he's becoming a much more lucky goalkeeper (seemingly by doing whatever's necessary as circumstances dictate, & making his own luck).

We're not seeing the sort of catastrophes from him that have been commonplace even in the prem over recent weeks (see Bogdan today for Liverpool, Courtois for Chelsea v Bournemouth a week or two back, Simon Mignolet for Liverpool against West Brom last week).

But, bearing in mind his excellent performances over recent weeks, hopefully he'll be readily forgiven when he inevitably does make a mistake or two further down the line. Knowing us, he won't be.

 

[alcoblade]

It's not about punching or catching, for me.

Take yesterday as the example, he should have cleared the players out in front of him, to get more on the ball. He isn't physical enough in those situations, leading to him getting poor contact.

UTB

 

[sitwell]

It's not about punching or catching, for me.

Take yesterday as the example, he should have cleared the players out in front of him, to get more on the ball. He isn't physical enough in those situations, leading to him getting poor contact.

UTB

Agree physical or vocal ,but he is playing better and you cant argue with one last minute worldy in 4 games.

 

[alcoblade]

Agree physical or vocal ,but he is playing better and you cant argue with one last minute worldy in 4 games.

Agreed, I've been impressed overall and I've said so elsewhere.

UTB

 

[metalblade]

I think I have mis-understood the thread title

 

[robbiez666]

another Saturday night scandal?

 

[finlaytheblade]

A couple of posters have highlighted Long's connection with the ball from a Scunthorpe cross yesterday and either called it a mistake or, similarly, a flap. I'm not convinced it was either.

When the ball comes into the box in descending order of preference I reckon the keeper can

1. Catch
2. Punch a long way
3. Punch not so far
4. Divert the path of the ball - this stops any opposition players making clean contact and is the first line of defence in stopping us conceding a goal as runs, headers, shots become mistimed even by a slight touch on the ball
5. Miss it completely - see Billy's goal v Coventry

Long's working environment is chaotic, diverting the path of the ball will occasionally be the best any keeper can do (eg if his path to the ball is not clear), and it stops an immediate goal, after that it's the job of the defence - keeper included - to keep the ball out of the net. This often looks very exciting (oohs and aahs), but as long as the players are in position and committed to challenges they've got a very good chance of keeping the ball out.

This is exactly what happened yesterday.

Goalkeeping is obviously a specialist position, and I'd be interested to hear from any coaches or anyone who's been coached in that position whether they think Long's efforts were a "flap".

View attachment 14939
A chaotic working environment*

*Fwiw I heard Chris Boardman talk about Cav's sprints like this once - a great description.

I was at the match and I think the incident talked about happened from a corner in the 2nd half.In my opinion George did really well ,the wind was swirling taking the ball all over the place and he did well to get good purchase on the ball when under severe pressure ,it was a punch not a flap .Long's confidence is growing match on match (Adkins deserves credit for keeping faith in him and now getting the rewards),
It's another one in the eye for the fans who had wrote him off.He just needed time to mature ,but as all goalkeepers have the odd bad day I wait for the negative ones to have a go at him again.
Call me a clapper if you like but the negativity on this board gets on my tits.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I think I have mis-understood the thread title

That was more of a bitchslap, you wouldn't have known with Kirkland's reaction though!

 

[The_Green_Man]

I always wanted to give Pressman a good slap because the fat lump always appeared to play a blinder against us!

Then there is David Jizzman for Arsernal. When he pulled off the wonder save against Peschisolido, I didn't know whether I wanted to Punch him or applaud him as it was simply sublime.

Oh oh hold....I too have misunderstood the thread

 

[Dnblade]

Nowt wrong with a punching Keeper...even Hodgy used to punch the ball in a crowded goalmouth,when most keepers would tend to catch...ahead of his time owd Hodgy.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Again, i've watched the highlights and he had another good game, the eye catching save was the one where the Scunny player hit it from the edge of the box and it was moving around all over the place such that Long had to readjust in midair as he leapt up and keep a strong hand up to push it up and over.

That cross thats being mentioned here was a good one into the edge of the 6 yard box where he was brave to commit himself and go over the top of a few players to try and clear himself, maybe he wouldve been better punching it thus getting more distance on it but he cleared the first sign of danger and was lucky there wasnt a Scunthorpe player waiting on the 18yard box area for the scraps from it to either get a shot off or put the ball back in the mixer.

The more games he plays the more confident he will get and become more vocal with his defence, English GKs in particular seem to blossom at a later age than they do in most of the European leagues, AC Milan have been playing a 16yr old keeper in recent games!!

 

[Jehovah]

He's got away with it the last two games with the daft fumble across the line which was actually a goal and the wimpy flap yesterday. I'm pleased he's making good saves, but a new goalkeeper is still a top priority.

 

[blade too long]

He's got away with it the last two games with the daft fumble across the line which was actually a goal and the wimpy flap yesterday. I'm pleased he's making good saves, but a new goalkeeper is still a top priority.

what bollocks
no keeper makes 100% collection of the ball in any game
just now David de Gea is as good as it gets wearing gloves
but he has dropped balls half punched and let in the odd trickler

Long is fine, and getting better every game
The stick he gets is unwarranted and counter productive

 

[Billyblade]

It was a flap. But mainly because he was caught in 2 minds. Should I punch, should I catch? In the end neither.
The decision making will come naturally with experience and I for one think George shows a lot of potential. He just needs to get more physical in a crowd and command his area more.
I used to be a goalkeeper and one of my coaches was always telling me that it was my penalty area and everyone else in it were guests or intruders.
Georges positioning also seems to be a little awry at times and I have noticed occasions where he has made really good saves but if he had been stood where he should be, it would have gone straight down his throat.
Some decent performances lately from George and he seems to be getting a bit of luck for once. That's one thing that graces a lot of top keepers (Joe Hart seems to get lady luck on his side more often than not).
Keep it up George. Goalkeeping is a confidence thing. Once you have it, you play above your ability. Once you lose it, it is one of the most difficult things to get back.

As for punching goalkeepers, I reckon Hans Segers deserves a right fucking kicking

 

[Jehovah]

what bollocks
no keeper makes 100% collection of the ball in any game
just now David de Gea is as good as it gets wearing gloves
but he has dropped balls half punched and let in the odd trickler

Long is fine, and getting better every game
The stick he gets is unwarranted and counter productive

If you think the stick Long has had is unwarranted, there is no point in discussing further. Unbelievable.

 

[blade too long]

If you think the stick Long has had is unwarranted, there is no point in discussing further. Unbelievable.

his record says hes doing all right
its your criticism thats unbelievable
let in one goal, in 4 games, , doesnt get much better
keepers have the hardest job on the pitch
hes still young and needs all the support he can get
not some half baked criticism , for not letting in any goals cos we are in league one

 

[Slim Man]

He's got away with it the last two games with the daft fumble across the line which was actually a goal and the wimpy flap yesterday. I'm pleased he's making good saves, but a new goalkeeper is still a top priority.

As I've said before, the 'daft fumble across the line' wasn't a fumble at all, Collins diverted the path of the ball by about 90 degrees, 2 feet away from Long. We should be thankful he even got to it, Howard would have already have gone the other way.

You can't 'fumble' a ball you never really had hold of.

 

[Geordie Blade]

A couple of posters have highlighted Long's connection with the ball from a Scunthorpe cross yesterday and either called it a mistake or, similarly, a flap. I'm not convinced it was either.

When the ball comes into the box in descending order of preference I reckon the keeper can

1. Catch
2. Punch a long way
3. Punch not so far
4. Divert the path of the ball - this stops any opposition players making clean contact and is the first line of defence in stopping us conceding a goal as runs, headers, shots become mistimed even by a slight touch on the ball
5. Miss it completely - see Billy's goal v Coventry

It's also worth pointing out that, whilst these are in order of preference, they are also in order of difficulty (or, at least, in risk of failing). Assuming that (5) isn't a 'choice', number 4 is the easiest is most risk-free, whilst numbers 1 and 2 can easily go wrong. I agree that option 4 is quite sensible in a lot of cases.

 

[Bladebri]

Goal keeper's can punch

 

[Jehovah]

As I've said before, the 'daft fumble across the line' wasn't a fumble at all, Collins diverted the path of the ball by about 90 degrees, 2 feet away from Long. We should be thankful he even got to it, Howard would have already have gone the other way.

You can't 'fumble' a ball you never really had hold of.

Thankful

As I've said before, the 'daft fumble across the line' wasn't a fumble at all, Collins diverted the path of the ball by about 90 degrees, 2 feet away from Long. We should be thankful he even got to it, Howard would have already have gone the other way.

You can't 'fumble' a ball you never really had hold of.

I'm not thankful he got to a ball that was straight at him. I'm thankful the officials did not notice he dropped it over the line.

 

[Jehovah]

his record says hes doing all right
its your criticism thats unbelievable
let in one goal, in 4 games, , doesnt get much better
keepers have the hardest job on the pitch
hes still young and needs all the support he can get
not some half baked criticism , for not letting in any goals cos we are in league one

What record? His last few games? What about before that? My criticism is that he doesn't command his box, is to quiet and makes poor decisions on crosses. What's half baked?

 

[Bladesince59]

He's OK - JUST - for League One. Will we see Howard in goal again ? I doubt it.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

It's also worth pointing out that, whilst these are in order of preference, they are also in order of difficulty (or, at least, in risk of failing). Assuming that (5) isn't a 'choice', number 4 is the easiest is most risk-free, whilst numbers 1 and 2 can easily go wrong. I agree that option 4 is quite sensible in a lot of cases.

I agree with this.

Sometimes the best you can do is divert the path of the ball, this might even mean all it does is scrape the knuckles of your gloves, but it's enough to make an attacker's run mistimed.

Characterising anything other than a punch to the halfway line as a flap misses the point I reckon.

Anyway, credit to George and those working with him. He's coming on nicely.

At some point he'll probably drop a Major Clanger - let's hope it's not too costly, and it doesn't affect his confidence.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Again, i've watched the highlights and he had another good game, the eye catching save was the one where the Scunny player hit it from the edge of the box and it was moving around all over the place such that Long had to readjust in midair as he leapt up and keep a strong hand up to push it up and over.

That cross thats being mentioned here was a good one into the edge of the 6 yard box where he was brave to commit himself and go over the top of a few players to try and clear himself, maybe he wouldve been better punching it thus getting more distance on it but he cleared the first sign of danger and was lucky there wasnt a Scunthorpe player waiting on the 18yard box area for the scraps from it to either get a shot off or put the ball back in the mixer.

The more games he plays the more confident he will get and become more vocal with his defence, English GKs in particular seem to blossom at a later age than they do in most of the European leagues, AC Milan have been playing a 16yr old keeper in recent games!!

Out of curiosity Jonny. I note you identify WCFC as your team and I recall you posting around the time we played you in the cup. Do you also have some sort of allegiance to the blades? It’s just that I’ve noticed you contributing on other blades matters such as this and wondered what your motivation was?



Ps. Not a criticism btw. I welcome input from fans of other clubs, just wondered why we hold your interest.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

George is a young keeper who will make mistakes and who will go through good and bad patches. He did very well when he came in for the injured Howard in Wilson’s 2nd season for a good run of games hardly conceding any goals. Then, under Weir and Clough, he struggled to replicate it. He had a dodgy loan spell at Oxford before gradually improving at Motherwell. We’ve seen this season that he can get himself into bother but has also put in some good performances and seems to be improving. He seems to have taken a decision to try to punch everything now and whilst catching is preferable, he seems a lot less nervous playing this way and it seems to suit him. Hopefully he can maintain this good form for as long as possible. Do we still need a new keeper? Probably because if George hits another slump we’re back in trouble again. I’d like to see Howard replaced with a better number 1 with George providing cover and competition and hopefully continuing to improve to become a very solid number 1 himself over the course of the next couple of years. By that time, perhaps Willis, Eastwood or Ramsdale will be in the position George currently is and will be an able deputy.

 

[Balham]

My view on the Scunthorpe chance is that it has to go down as a bit of a flap. However, there are three things to note about it:
1: how the hell did McEveley and Woolford let the Scunthorpe right back get the cross in? That's poor defending
2: the George Long of two months ago would have stayed on his line. Coming for the ball was the right decision and as you can see from the screengrab below, he tried to catch it but the issue is that his body position is all wrong. Edgar doesn't help - he's blocking his goalkeeper.
3: the main mistake is actually spilling the follow up shot. He's very lucky to get away with that.






As for last week's spill which may or may not have crossed the line (FWIW I don't think it did - not totally): he was going across the goal with his weight on his left leg so did well to reverse that and get two hands on the ball. Yes, it span out but his reactions were good.

It appears that some posters' minds are either made up on the basis of one or two bad games or their expectations are unrealistic. If we stick with Long then I can see him making the team of the season as he's improving pretty much every game.

 

[blade too long]

What record? His last few games? What about before that? My criticism is that he doesn't command his box, is to quiet and makes poor decisions on crosses. What's half baked?

and as we keep saying hes young
reading the game as a keeper takes years
your brutal assessment hes not as good as peter schmicheal at his peak is asking too much

did you not see Coventrys keepewr flapping at our goal
watch any league one game and see keeper errors in every game



now thats a clanger

and this is a fumble