Collins and confirmation bias

[1danewhitehouse]

At the time of giving my match ratings, I noticed Collins had a lower rating than McGahey and he has been slated in quite a few threads too. Have a look back at both goals. McGahey is beaten in the air whilst turning away from the ball as he went up to head it for the first one though there was a big element of luck about it.

2nd Goal. McGahey is beaten in the air again despite doubling up with Freeman. Hammond then doesn't pick up his runner which means Collins has to leave his position to come across to the crosser and Wallace can't get to O Brien in time.

Collins was at fault for neither goal and played the very good forward pass to Sharp to set Adams up to hit the post. He also made several good headed clearances. He was our main threat on set pieces again despite being guilty yet again of heading one over the bar when he perhaps should have scored.

I think people see what they want to see with him sometimes though. He looks clumsy and moves slowly and I think that makes people distrust him but whilst he is no world-beater, he is a relatively solid and reliable centre half at this level.

I'm not trying to trash McGahey either. He's a young lad and will make mistakes but he was more at fault than Collins for both goals though Adams takes some blame for the first as well as he let the crosser have all the space in the world like he was taking a free kick. Hammond is partly culpable for the 2nd as he lost his midfield runner.

 

[blades78]

McGahey is still learning and is probably low in confidence. Playing at the side of Collins will not help him, as all he (Collins) does is scream and ball at everyone else when a goal is conceded to deflect blame from himself. Not the type of 'leaders' we need. Annoying that Anthony Gerrard, Zak Whitbread and Richard Wood have all joined league 1 sides within the last week and all are better than our current centre back pairing. Before I get slated, I know they aren't world beaters but they are better than we have got atm.

 

[Karaoke Blade]

I would argue that Collins is far from being solid and reliable (even at this level) and is one of the reasons why we we are playing at the level we are. For the record, I gave both Collins and McGahey a 5 each, average. In McGahey's favour, he is a young player who has the potential to get better, Collins isn't.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Collins is good at what he's good at. Sadly though, I reckon Cloughy had Collins's number (even if his way of dealing with the problem was a bit brutal) - Collins just causes the defence to lie too deep, which in turn contributes to the yawning gaps between the forward line & the rest. It's something that needs resolving asap (either by Adkins forcing Collins to keep a higher line, or by replacing him).

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

At the time of giving my match ratings, I noticed Collins had a lower rating than McGahey and he has been slated in quite a few threads too. Have a look back at both goals. McGahey is beaten in the air whilst turning away from the ball as he went up to head it for the first one though there was a big element of luck about it.

2nd Goal. McGahey is beaten in the air again despite doubling up with Freeman. Hammond then doesn't pick up his runner which means Collins has to leave his position to come across to the crosser and Wallace can't get to O Brien in time.

Collins was at fault for neither goal and played the very good forward pass to Sharp to set Adams up to hit the post. He also made several good headed clearances. He was our main threat on set pieces again despite being guilty yet again of heading one over the bar when he perhaps should have scored.

I think people see what they want to see with him sometimes though. He looks clumsy and moves slowly and I think that makes people distrust him but whilst he is no world-beater, he is a relatively solid and reliable centre half at this level.

I'm not trying to trash McGahey either. He's a young lad and will make mistakes but he was more at fault than Collins for both goals though Adams takes some blame for the first as well as he let the crosser have all the space in the world like he was taking a free kick. Hammond is partly culpable for the 2nd as he lost his midfield runner.

For me Collins has played well all season.

Evidence and reason don't always have the desired outcome though.

Can't easily post the link but the immediate responses here remind me of the Backfire Effect at YANSS.

 

[ReeceofBDTBL]

At the time of giving my match ratings, I noticed Collins had a lower rating than McGahey and he has been slated in quite a few threads too. Have a look back at both goals. McGahey is beaten in the air whilst turning away from the ball as he went up to head it for the first one though there was a big element of luck about it.

2nd Goal. McGahey is beaten in the air again despite doubling up with Freeman. Hammond then doesn't pick up his runner which means Collins has to leave his position to come across to the crosser and Wallace can't get to O Brien in time.

Collins was at fault for neither goal and played the very good forward pass to Sharp to set Adams up to hit the post. He also made several good headed clearances. He was our main threat on set pieces again despite being guilty yet again of heading one over the bar when he perhaps should have scored.

I think people see what they want to see with him sometimes though. He looks clumsy and moves slowly and I think that makes people distrust him but whilst he is no world-beater, he is a relatively solid and reliable centre half at this level.

I'm not trying to trash McGahey either. He's a young lad and will make mistakes but he was more at fault than Collins for both goals though Adams takes some blame for the first as well as he let the crosser have all the space in the world like he was taking a free kick. Hammond is partly culpable for the 2nd as he lost his midfield runner.

You're completely wrong mate. Collins is attrocious, he's reasonably competent at heading high balls pitched into the box by bottom half of league 1 teams and thats it. If you're talking about positioning, reading of the game or god forbid a saving tackle he's absolutely pathetic and I'm sick of the sight of him.
(before I go on, just realised I really need to change my avatar photo)

We've let in 23 goals this season and he's been the supposed leader and king pin of the defence the whole time, he ball watches and goes absolutely AWOL against any sort of decent movement or pace (swindon away first half of last season the classic example, the less said about the shower he turned out against hull at wembley the better).

The one thing about him that F(_)cks me off about him the most, is the way he drops back into the penalty area and just gawks at the ball, granted he's not gonna get a shout from the pile of 5h1t we've got in goal to push up to the edge of the box, but for christs sake Collins is 32 and is doing something that 18 year olds should have down.

Leader? Hows about him giving george long a round of fucks 6 minutes into the new season, or the bickering with mcgahey after the goal on saturday.

He sh!te, absolute sh1te I can't believe we've had him this long and I never want to see him in the red n white of Sheffield United ever again.

 

[Bladesman]

McGahey is still learning and is probably low in confidence. Playing at the side of Collins will not help him, as all he (Collins) does is scream and ball at everyone else when a goal is conceded to deflect blame from himself. Not the type of 'leaders' we need. Annoying that Anthony Gerrard, Zak Whitbread and Richard Wood have all joined league 1 sides within the last week and all are better than our current centre back pairing. Before I get slated, I know they aren't world beaters but they are better than we have got atm.

I think Whitbread would be decent for us at this level. Not too sure about Wood and Gerrard are any use anymore.

 

[ReeceofBDTBL]

One of the worst defensive records in the league, when people are in agreement that its not really down to the fullbacks (Freeman and Wallace are not exactly johnny ertl and andy taylor).
Collins, Howard and Mcgahey between them are not even league one standard, get them the f(_)ck out of this team and this club ASAP.
Mcgahey went on loan and sent back back by tranmere who got relegated from the football league, their fans posting comments that they couldn't believe he was even a professional footballer etc.

We don't even need a championship quality keeper and center backs to be an improvement on these jokers.

Sick of this club settling for tryers, I know the best two blades managers of the last 30 years were very good at motivating a cheap team of tryers but that doesn't mean it should affect the way we see things now.

The club, the attitude of the fans towards how football should be played and the kind of players we should sign and most importantly the expertise and foreward thinking of the people on the football side of the club needs transforming and taking up several levels from the second rate shambles its been for the last 40 years.

 

[SwissBlade]

Collins has some decent games, fleetwood was one, but he's error prone, positioning is often all over - too deep or too high and he's got no pace.

I'd get rid today if we could. But then I don't like the guy

 

[Sean Thornton]

You're completely wrong mate. Collins is attrocious, he's reasonably competent at heading high balls pitched into the box by bottom half of league 1 teams and thats it. If you're talking about positioning, reading of the game or god forbid a saving tackle he's absolutely pathetic and I'm sick of the sight of him.
(before I go on, just realised I really need to change my avatar photo)

We've let in 23 goals this season and he's been the supposed leader and king pin of the defence the whole time, he ball watches and goes absolutely AWOL against any sort of decent movement or pace (swindon away first half of last season the classic example, the less said about the shower he turned out against hull at wembley the better).

The one thing about him that F(_)cks me off about him the most, is the way he drops back into the penalty area and just gawks at the ball, granted he's not gonna get a shout from the pile of 5h1t we've got in goal to push up to the edge of the box, but for christs sake Collins is 32 and is doing something that 18 year olds should have down.

Leader? Hows about him giving george long a round of fucks 6 minutes into the new season, or the bickering with mcgahey after the goal on saturday.

He sh!te, absolute sh1te I can't believe we've had him this long and I never want to see him in the red n white of Sheffield United ever again.

The bench are constantly shouting at him to push up. He just points at the other players. No good for McGahey or Howard.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Sorry but if there's a mass cull in January, Collins has to be one of those who goes, along with virtually everyone who's featured in a back four this season barring maybe Edgar.

 

[bartman]

So what we are saying then is that we miss McEveley at centre half !

 

[1danewhitehouse]

So far this season, the following players have played centre half at some point or another


Collins

McEveley

Edgar

McGahey

Basham

Kennedy

K. Wallace


For me, Collins is better than McEveley, Wallace, or McGahey there. In some games I think he’s been better than Edgar too but Edgar probably has more to his all round game. Kennedy and Basham have largely not been options due to Kennedy’s knees and Bahsam needing to be in midfield. Edgar has been injured so that leaves Collins as, for me, the standout best centre half we have to pick from. Yes he’s limited, yes he’s slow but he’s not the appalling player some make him out to be. He had a relatively good spell last season for Vale (compare that to McGahey at Tranmere). He provides an attacking threat at set pieces. He always plays on the left side of the defence, a more difficult job for all the right footed centre halves. He's also proven that with a good partner (Maguire), he can be part of a very effective defence.


Yes it’s an area to improve going forward but for me, he has to play at the moment. Now we have Hammond though, I would be tempted to drop Basham in alongside him in place of McGahey and play Hammond, Coutts and Baxter through the middle with Adams and one of JCR/Done flanking Sharp.

 

[mosbolad]

Collins does a reasonable average job at this level.

I agree entirely about him not pushing up, word on the street and one of the many reasons he fell out with Clough was his refusal to push up and stick to the shoulder of his man. Maybe he was frightened wary or whatever word you choose of being turned then exposed for pace or lack of it.

However what really gets my goat for a supposed mature leader on the pitch is the bollockings he constantly gives out to other players particularly the younger lads, without acknowledging any of his own defensive shortcomings. It's as if he rants loud enough at another player after a goal then any culpability is removed from him!

 

[madeinsheffield]

He's supposed to be in charge of the defence, central, with the most experience. He should be pushing them all out and organising constantly and vocally. His positional play, lack of pace, turning circle of a boat, combined with the fact he rarely looks for a positive pass and takes the easy square ball option, even putting us straight back in danger.

Yep I'll praise the odd headed goal from a corner but that's it.

Needs to be gone, he is part of the problem and one of the reasons we have stayed in this division so long, because he's simply not good enough in such a very important position

 

[TonyAgana]

In Collins' seasons alongside Maguire, we conceded on average around 1 goal per game but I suppose we all need a scapegoat.

 

[Smirth]

He's a head and hoof centre half which is a dying trade, even in this league, despite what some may think. He isn't good enough. I didn't agree with Clough's treatment of him last season but I did agree with him dropping him.

Collins has been the one mainstay of this team throughout our relegation from the Championship where he was one half of the most comedic centre half pairing I've seen in all my time of going to BL, and has now been a mainstay of the side which has failed to win promotion from this league. He isn't good enough.

I still can't work out how he is still under contract as I felt certain his contract was up at the same time as Doyle's but he still clings on here and is now this season back in the first team.

He sits far too deep which just invites pressure on to ourselves. He never takes responsibility, he doesn't lead or command the back four, he just bollocks people after we concede. That isn't leadership, despite what some may think.

I'd agree that on Saturday him and McGahey were both has bad as each other but I think McGahey gets cut more lack because of his age and because he's still learning his trade.

We still need 2 new centre halves, or 1 of we are going to play Basham in what is his best position (centre half.) Edgar is too weak, McGahey is fine as a squad player, Collins isn't good enough and Kennedy is too unfit. Until we sort that out we will not win promotion from this league. It doesn't matter how many goals we score, this defence looks like conceding more than 1 goal each game and that's a ridiculous way to mount a promotion challenge.

 

[Blade56]

McGahey is still learning and is probably low in confidence. Playing at the side of Collins will not help him, as all he (Collins) does is scream and ball at everyone else when a goal is conceded to deflect blame from himself. Not the type of 'leaders' we need. Annoying that Anthony Gerrard, Zak Whitbread and Richard Wood have all joined league 1 sides within the last week and all are better than our current centre back pairing. Before I get slated, I know they aren't world beaters but they are better than we have got atm.

I remember people saying he brought Harry on in leaps and bounds

 

[Harry's Game]

Collins is our best centre back at the club at the moment.

I am not saying that's a good thing but it's true.

 

[BushBlade]

Collins is good at what he's good at. Sadly though, I reckon Cloughy had Collins's number (even if his way of dealing with the problem was a bit brutal) - Collins just causes the defence to lie too deep, which in turn contributes to the yawning gaps between the forward line & the rest. It's something that needs resolving asap (either by Adkins forcing Collins to keep a higher line, or by replacing him).

Even DW1 had this problem. It didn't seem much of an issue when we had the quality players in front of him but I remember it was discussed a lot in his second season when we didn't have the quality to hide our deficiencies.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So far this season, the following players have played centre half at some point or another


Collins

McEveley

Edgar

McGahey

Basham

Kennedy

K. Wallace


For me, Collins is better than McEveley, Wallace, or McGahey there. In some games I think he’s been better than Edgar too but Edgar probably has more to his all round game. Kennedy and Basham have largely not been options due to Kennedy’s knees and Bahsam needing to be in midfield. Edgar has been injured so that leaves Collins as, for me, the standout best centre half we have to pick from. Yes he’s limited, yes he’s slow but he’s not the appalling player some make him out to be. He had a relatively good spell last season for Vale (compare that to McGahey at Tranmere). He provides an attacking threat at set pieces. He always plays on the left side of the defence, a more difficult job for all the right footed centre halves. He's also proven that with a good partner (Maguire), he can be part of a very effective defence.


Yes it’s an area to improve going forward but for me, he has to play at the moment. Now we have Hammond though, I would be tempted to drop Basham in alongside him in place of McGahey and play Hammond, Coutts and Baxter through the middle with Adams and one of JCR/Done flanking Sharp.

So to sum up, you just don't think he's as shite as the rest of them?

 

[ziggy4001]

I think the board should give him a 5 year contract.

 

[Nedski]

Collins had a good season the year he had a very good partner next to him and a good midfield in front of him. Since he's had to "step up" as one of our so-called better (experienced) players, we've been awful at the back.

I'd rather have Wallace Basham Kennedy Freeman until we get a new centre back and Brayford returns

 

[marsh blade]

You're completely wrong mate. Collins is attrocious, he's reasonably competent at heading high balls pitched into the box by bottom half of league 1 teams and thats it. If you're talking about positioning, reading of the game or god forbid a saving tackle he's absolutely pathetic and I'm sick of the sight of him.
(before I go on, just realised I really need to change my avatar photo)

We've let in 23 goals this season and he's been the supposed leader and king pin of the defence the whole time, he ball watches and goes absolutely AWOL against any sort of decent movement or pace (swindon away first half of last season the classic example, the less said about the shower he turned out against hull at wembley the better).

The one thing about him that F(_)cks me off about him the most, is the way he drops back into the penalty area and just gawks at the ball, granted he's not gonna get a shout from the pile of 5h1t we've got in goal to push up to the edge of the box, but for christs sake Collins is 32 and is doing something that 18 year olds should have down.

Leader? Hows about him giving george long a round of fucks 6 minutes into the new season, or the bickering with mcgahey after the goal on saturday.

He sh!te, absolute sh1te I can't believe we've had him this long and I never want to see him in the red n white of Sheffield United ever again.

Great post so true also when he heads it in his own area he heads it downwards then at the other end he heads it high.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Some unfair stick for Collins on here, he's given his all but unfortunately he isn't what we need if we are going to get promoted. Surely this is his final season for us, but when he goes, I for one wish him well.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Adams takes some blame for the first as well as he let the crosser have all the space in the world like he was taking a free kick. .

Thanks for clarifying who that was ambling across without any form of a challenge. That was the difference between the two sides. They were up for it. Hopefully Adams isn't starting to believe the hype he is a superstar already.

 

[JohnDenver]

To those claiming Collins has had good games this season, I'd ask whether they were games when we held out under severe pressure? Or were they games where we pushed-on and left our defence exposed?

When teams like Fleetwood come to defend for 90 mins, United could stick me in at centre half and they'd not suffer. I know we cannot expect a Jagielka, but at the very least we need an organiser. And I'm afraid Collins is well short of the mark.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

To those claiming Collins has had good games this season, I'd ask whether they were games when we held out under severe pressure? Or were they games where we pushed-on and left our defence exposed?

When teams like Fleetwood come to defend for 90 mins, United could stick me in at centre half and they'd not suffer. I know we cannot expect a Jagielka, but at the very least we need an organiser. And I'm afraid Collins is well short of the mark.

He's played well in pretty much every game this season. Covered for McGahey on a number of occasions, as he should. Got in the odd useful recovery block. As Bergen Blade has pointed out numerous times the problems have generally been in midfield.

I actually thought about posting something almost identical to the OP (and with that thread title) after seeing him have a particularly good game recently - and double checking it on BP.

• Collins does simple things well for this level
• He's generally fairly comfortable on the ball
• He's obviously passionate about playing
• Has made some decent passes
• but his distribution can be wayward

He's decent enough at this level but the pitchforks are out for him and Howard.

If you go to the match looking for all the things he does wrong then you'll see plenty. That's true of all players, though for whatever reason some get singled out and others don't.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

At the time of giving my match ratings, I noticed Collins had a lower rating than McGahey and he has been slated in quite a few threads too. Have a look back at both goals. McGahey is beaten in the air whilst turning away from the ball as he went up to head it for the first one though there was a big element of luck about it.

2nd Goal. McGahey is beaten in the air again despite doubling up with Freeman. Hammond then doesn't pick up his runner which means Collins has to leave his position to come across to the crosser and Wallace can't get to O Brien in time.

Collins was at fault for neither goal and played the very good forward pass to Sharp to set Adams up to hit the post. He also made several good headed clearances. He was our main threat on set pieces again despite being guilty yet again of heading one over the bar when he perhaps should have scored.

I think people see what they want to see with him sometimes though. He looks clumsy and moves slowly and I think that makes people distrust him but whilst he is no world-beater, he is a relatively solid and reliable centre half at this level.

I'm not trying to trash McGahey either. He's a young lad and will make mistakes but he was more at fault than Collins for both goals though Adams takes some blame for the first as well as he let the crosser have all the space in the world like he was taking a free kick. Hammond is partly culpable for the 2nd as he lost his midfield runner.

Great post and as mentioned above I could have posted almost exactly this after a recent game (Oldham?).

He got poor ratings having done nothing wrong and several things right.

He's fine at this level, but, for whatever reason, a significant number of fans seem to want to attack the club and individual players on a regular and often fairly random basis. Depressing.

UTMB

 

[JohnDenver]

He's played well in pretty much every game this season. Covered for McGahey on a number of occasions, as he should. Got in the odd useful recovery block. As Bergen Blade has pointed out numerous times the problems have generally been in midfield.

I actually thought about posting something almost identical to the OP (and with that thread title) after seeing him have a particularly good game recently - and double checking it on BP.

• Collins does simple things well for this level
• He's generally fairly comfortable on the ball
• He's obviously passionate about playing
• Has made some decent passes
• but his distribution can be wayward

He's decent enough at this level but the pitchforks are out for him and Howard.

If you go to the match looking for all the things he does wrong then you'll see plenty. That's true of all players, though for whatever reason some get singled out and others don't.

I've never rated him at all, but will concede he's our best option at the moment. Trouble is, I think that's a reflection of the sheer depth of our defensive problem.