If you had the choice...

[DazBlade88]

When I was driving back from Carlisle on Saturday evening, me and my two mates were listening to 606. A gentleman who had moved to America but still watched English football regularly was talking about styles of play and what he'd rather watch, Stoke were a big part of this topic obviously and he said that he would rather see his team be an entertaining mid-table Championship side, than a mid-table Premiership side that played boring football.

The presenters (Darren Fletcher and Robbie Savage) thought that this was ridiculous and that the vast majority of football fans would take Premiership football over anything. "You get to see the best players in the world week in, week out" was their response, to which he said "But they're not playing for my team, and I pay my money to watch my team". I thought he had a very good point and I agree with him.

With all the talk of style on here at the moment I thought I would be an interesting topic to debate and give us something to talk about other than our current struggle. This is all theoretical obviously, and based on an established Premiership side rather than a team who has just been promoted and trying to stay there.

So, what would you prefer to pay your money to see?

 

[Maidenhead]

Championship every time.

Proper games against proper clubs with proper fans and proper atmosphere not the overhyped theatre that is called the premier league.

 

[2ndtenorblade]

Championship every time.

Proper games against proper clubs with proper fans and proper atmosphere not the overhyped theatre that is called the premier league.

Conference it is then.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

As a genuine football fan, the higher you go, the more disillusioned you'll become with the game. There's a formula in some college in Cambridge for this. TW over AT times S equals PL or somesuch.

Therefore full enjoyment will be found in the Bob Martins flea treatment League, with the Barnstoneworth United types of this world.

 

[sheffielder]

Neither if I am honest.

Is it not possible to be Norwich, Southampton or Fulham. They are attractive teams in mid table position.

They all came up from the 3rd division playing the right way

 

[Maidenhead]

Neither if I am honest.

Is it not possible to be Norwich, Southampton or Fulham. They are attractive teams in mid table position.

They all came up from the 3rd division playing the right way

And pay £70 a time in the forlorn hope that you may see the lucky win in London, Manchester, or Liverpool once in a blue moon?

I enjoy going to games and I have no doubt that I would be priced out by the premiership fasionista theatre going types

 

[Kenilworth]

I enjoy going to games and I have no doubt that I would be priced out by the premiership fasionista theatre going types

I have to admit that on reflection I actually don't enjoy going to the games anymore and since every game for me is an away game no matter where it is I feel priced out even at this level - god forbid we get to play in the EPL on a regular basis - think I might take up tiddly winks if this happens - much more edgy and dangerous

 

[Damski]

I don't know about you guys but I wanna see the likes of Man UTD , Chelsea, Arsenal, etc at BDTBL again. I get your point about "proper" football clubs, but surely any fan will want their team to be as successful as possible? I wanna watch Alan Shearer praise our forwards on MOTD. I wanna see big signings come in. I wanna see 30,000+ at BDTBL every home game.

My dad's been following SUFC since the mid-70's. He's seen them play in every division, and he says all he wants is to watch SUFC in Europe. Me too. That'd be fucking top. We've only got a chance of success in Europe if we're in the top division. Now I'm realistic. I doubt we'll see that in the next 20 years. But come on, Championship? Fuck that. Why not dream about your team winning the EPL by 20 points. Maybe you're all a bit older than me and disillusioned, but I still want my team to win 7-0 every game, and have Messi playing up front.

 

[cooperblade]

And pay £70 a time in the forlorn hope that you may see the lucky win in London, Manchester, or Liverpool once in a blue moon?

I enjoy going to games and I have no doubt that I would be priced out by the premiership fasionista theatre going types

It's expensive enough in the Championship. Leeds fans paid £33 at Bolton last weekend.

Can't imagine any scenario where getting 45 points in the top flight would be boring, regardless of the style of football.

 

[DazBlade88]

I don't know about you guys but I wanna see the likes of Man UTD , Chelsea, Arsenal, etc at BDTBL again. I get your point about "proper" football clubs, but surely any fan will want their team to be as successful as possible? I wanna watch Alan Shearer praise our forwards on MOTD. I wanna see big signings come in. I wanna see 30,000+ at BDTBL every home game.

My dad's been following SUFC since the mid-70's. He's seen them play in every division, and he says all he wants is to watch SUFC in Europe. Me too. That'd be fucking top. We've only got a chance of success in Europe if we're in the top division. Now I'm realistic. I doubt we'll see that in the next 20 years. But come on, Championship? Fuck that. Why not dream about your team winning the EPL by 20 points. Maybe you're all a bit older than me and disillusioned, but I still want my team to win 7-0 every game, and have Messi playing up front.

I'm not arguing with that at all. I'd absolutely love to be able to see us play in Europe and be a top side, I'd never not want us to be successful! It would eventually price me out, but to be fair some of the Championship prices would these days.

This was a purely hypothetical situation that was being discussed on 606. I thought he was wrong when he said the vast majority of people would rather be in the Premiership but watching boring football, so I was interested to see if others shared my view. That doesn't mean I'd be happy languishing in the middle of the Championship by any means.

 

[DazBlade88]

It's expensive enough in the Championship. Leeds fans paid £33 at Bolton last weekend.

Can't imagine any scenario where getting 45 points in the top flight would be boring, regardless of the style of football.

It depends on the situation for me. If you've been there for 5 years and you're seeing a goal a game on average, finishing between 11th and 14th every time eventually you'd get a bit fed up of watching it and want more.

Say you could sit and watch that, or watch a side in a division lower and see 3 goals a game on average it would be more enjoyable to watch the latter? I'm not saying I wouldn't want us to be in the top division and see good games by any stretch.

 

[cooperblade]

It depends on the situation for me. If you've been there for 5 years and you're seeing a goal a game on average, finishing between 11th and 14th every time eventually you'd get a bit fed up of watching it and want more.

Say you could sit and watch that, or watch a side in a division lower and see 3 goals a game on average it would be more enjoyable to watch the latter? I'm not saying I wouldn't want us to be in the top division and see good games by any stretch.

5 years of anything repetitive would get boring. Years of winning or losing 4-3 every week but always finishing mid-table in the Championship would become dull eventually.

 

[StarBlade]

I don't know about you guys but I wanna see the likes of Man UTD , Chelsea, Arsenal, etc at BDTBL again. I get your point about "proper" football clubs, but surely any fan will want their team to be as successful as possible? I wanna watch Alan Shearer praise our forwards on MOTD. I wanna see big signings come in. I wanna see 30,000+ at BDTBL every home game.

My dad's been following SUFC since the mid-70's. He's seen them play in every division, and he says all he wants is to watch SUFC in Europe. Me too. That'd be fucking top. We've only got a chance of success in Europe if we're in the top division. Now I'm realistic. I doubt we'll see that in the next 20 years. But come on, Championship? Fuck that. Why not dream about your team winning the EPL by 20 points. Maybe you're all a bit older than me and disillusioned, but I still want my team to win 7-0 every game, and have Messi playing up front.

If the Championship was actually the Football League Division 2, and promotion from it would be to the Football League Division 1, then I'd agree. In fact, what I mean to say is, if football went back 20 years then I'd agree. I think Sky and the PL are massive reasons why a) football is so expensive, b) why it's poor value, c)why small clubs can't compete at the top, d)why England doesn't produce better youngsters, e) why integrity and dishonesty has crept into what used to be a far more gentlemans game and f) why so many clubs are getting into financial difficulties.

I'd love to see us get promoted from the Championship and not end up in Sky's corporate machine.

 

[Selly]

5 years of anything repetitive would get boring. Years of winning or losing 4-3 every week but always finishing mid-table in the Championship would become dull eventually.

I think the overriding emotion if that were happening would be frustration at how we couldn`t change our ways to turn us into a top 6 side...

 

[Grecian2000]

I thought he was wrong when he said the vast majority of people would rather be in the Premiership but watching boring football

It's the beeb and they are (along with ALL broadcasters) part of the problem. EVERYTHING is geared towards the Premier League and they are now so blinkered that anything beneath that is regarded as beneath them. Pundits are simply the only ex-footballers with enough intelligence to put a couple of sentences together (and Andy Townsend) and should simply be ignored. Give me Danny Baker style 606 any day of the week.

This crap about seeing the best players in the world, week in week out, is very tiresome. There maybe some of the best players in the world playing in the Prem but they're concentrated into three or four clubs and you only get to see them every other month or so. When you do see them in the flesh you finally realise just how hyped up they are anyway (van Persie is probably the only genuine WC player I'd pay to watch in this country) and what a bag of shit they've turned the game into.

No brainer for me, decent, entertaining football at championship (or any) level as opposed to boring shite anywhere.

 

[DazBlade88]

5 years of anything repetitive would get boring. Years of winning or losing 4-3 every week but always finishing mid-table in the Championship would become dull eventually.

I think the overriding emotion if that were happening would be frustration at how we couldn`t change our ways to turn us into a top 6 side...

Very good points. You always end up wanting more after a consistent few years of the same.

Repetition is boring, I do agree. I just feel that if I'm going to pay the ticket prices that we have to these days and was forced in to this scenario I'd rather see some excitement and goals even if it's supposedly a lower standard of football.

 

[JohnDenver]

There's a bit of a fallacy at the heart of all this. Most fans want to see winning football above all else - this is what they deem entertainment to be. And unless you're already a top 6 Premiership side then you aren't going to have a high win percentage in that league anyway. Teams like Charlton, Bolton bang their heads against the glass ceiling until they eventually implode. Stoke will do the same.

On the other hand, can you really entertain in the Championship without winning enough games to get promoted?

 

[Darren]

I presume that all those who don't want us in the PL were extremely happy when we lost the PO final in 2009....

 

[Grecian2000]

I presume that all those who don't want us in the PL were extremely happy when we lost the PO final in 2009....

The question wasn't "do you want to get promoted to the Premiership" though. The "ideal" would be playing like Barca in the top flight (or indeed like we did in '71).
There was the specific about surviving by being dull (a la Stoke). As it turned out we had the worst of both worlds, failure to be promoted and Blackwellian tedium in Div 2.

 

[StarBlade]

I presume that all those who don't want us in the PL were extremely happy when we lost the PO final in 2009....

Of course not, it's just a romantic notion of what football is, and what it used to be.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

It depends on the situation for me. If you've been there for 5 years and you're seeing a goal a game on average, finishing between 11th and 14th every time eventually you'd get a bit fed up of watching it and want more.

Say you could sit and watch that, or watch a side in a division lower and see 3 goals a game on average it would be more enjoyable to watch the latter? I'm not saying I wouldn't want us to be in the top division and see good games by any stretch.

I think the main difference is that if we were consistently a mid-table Premiership club, we would have much more chance of making a Cup Final and (whisper it) actually winning a major trophy.
We've already been a consistent top half Championship club and the chances of winning a trophy are still slim, as there are by definition at least 20-25 better teams than us in each competition.
I've seen promotions, I've seen relegations, I've seen play-off finals and Cup Semi Finals.
The only attainable ambitions left are Cup Finals and Trophies.

 

[SwissBlade]

Championship for me. I get bored watching PL games

 

[alcoblade]

The only attainable ambitions left are Cup Finals and Trophies.

As a Sheffield United fan, you must have come out in a rash when you wrote that?

Thophies? WTF?



UTB

 

[Grecian2000]

The only attainable ambitions left are Cup Finals and Trophies.

Bloody Hell Sothers, I think you need to be looking up "attainable" in a dictionary!

 

[Bladesway]

I would like to play in a league that even in a dream, we have a chance of winning. I don't care which one it is to be honest, I just would like to see us compete to win stuff. While Wilsons first season in charge ended in failure it was the most entertained I have been in years. Warnocks team that got us promotion to the Premiership and Bassetts teams that got us from 3rd to 2nd to 1st were the best years ever.

Fact is I will never forget that day at West Brom when we all went with hope rather than expectation and took them apart 3-0 under Bassett. You won't get that in the Premiership with us.

Lastly the Premiership is a league that doesn't want teams like us anyhow. If we were Sheffield FC, merged and living in a 60,000 all seater souless stadium then they would be interested, but not plain old Sheffield United. We are a relic of history to them and no more.

 

[grafikhaus]

I wanna watch Alan Shearer praise our forwards on MOTD. I wanna see big signings come in.

Short memory there, Damski. In 2006/7 we usually got five minutes after midnight on MoTD. And Garth Crooks spouting 'Sheffield United. NGE.' (Not good enough).

Interesting point by the OP, though. Recently, I've seen on here people reminiscing about the 'good old days' under Blackwell and Wilson. What a joke. It was usually dire stuff. Regularly under Wilson, we'd go until half time at home without troubling the visiting goalie. (Bit like now. ).

Once the novelty has worn off and the bias of the refs. and media has drained the life out of you, the PL is a grim place to be apart from 4 or 5 'chosen' teams. Just 'being there' is not enough - that's why Stoke got rid of Pulis.

And, under Bassett we spent (I think) 4 seasons in the top flight and it was all getting a bit stale. The Championship is where teams like United belong - very competitive, good away followings and infinitely better than waiting to get reeled in in the PL and the shite of Div. 3.

 

[Selly]

And, under Bassett we spent (I think) 4 seasons in the top flight and it was all getting a bit stale. The Championship is where teams like United belong - very competitive, good away followings and infinitely better than waiting to get reeled in in the PL and the shite of Div. 3.

Now I can`t talk for you, or anyone else, but the 12 successive seasons in the Championship between 94 and 2006, didn`t just get stale, it got mouldy and walked off the the bin all on its own...

 

[Sothall_Blade]

As a Sheffield United fan, you must have come out in a rash when you wrote that?

Thophies? WTF?



UTB

Bloody Hell Sothers, I think you need to be looking up "attainable" in a dictionary!

Pure fantasy at the moment I agree.
But in terms of the original question, mid-table premiership would give us a realistic chance, mid-table championship would not.

 

[Sheff de party]

I doubt we'll see that in the next 20 years. But come on, Championship? Fuck that. Why not dream about your team winning the EPL by 20 points. Maybe you're all a bit older than me and disillusioned, but I still want my team to win 7-0 every game, and have Messi playing up front.

I'm afraid in 20 years time, Messi will be 46 and won't be up for it.

He may well still be good enough to play for us.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

Football is boring. To be honest, unless you're an astronaut, everything in life is boring. We're all just filling time with as much pointless crap as we can, to distract us from the realisation that we're all going to die without ever doing anything even vaguely meaningful.

What was the question again?