Rules - Another them vs us debate.

[Overthehills]

I try my hardest to maintain a level headed opinion that it is all swings and roundabouts but LS16Blade has pointed it out again tonight in the shoutbox....and well, he's right isn't he? It's hard not to think that it is all bias as hell.

Arsenal vs Luton



I didn't watch it, but looking at the stats above. Even if you pair certain events / substitutions together, you are looking at a decent chunk of time added on... IF the rules are consistent.

Do the above events represent the 4 minutes added time from the referee?

Brentford v Brighton



Again as above.... In this game we have 8 subsitutions and a couple of yellow cards. The referee decides that this amounts to just 3 minutes added time.

Man City v Villa



Then you have the City game.... 2 goals, 9 subsitutions and a yellow in the second half, yet the ref only saw this as 4 minutes added time.

Really Mr England?? Really Premier League..... it's as much of a mockery as the VAR.

You can't excuse the manner in which we fail to see games out and how we concede stupid late goals, but the inconsistencies are ridiculous never the less.

Saturday's for me they can actually have because well... 6 goals, a disallowed goal, subs galore.... it does actually amount for once on stoppages (as shite as it turned out to be).... but ordinarily the stoppages are wank.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

I try my hardest to maintain a level headed opinion that it is all swings and roundabouts but LS16Blade has pointed it out again tonight in the shoutbox....and well, he's right isn't he? It's hard not to think that it is all bias as hell.

Arsenal vs Luton

View attachment 181556

I didn't watch it, but looking at the stats above. Even if you pair certain events / substitutions together, you are looking at a decent chunk of time added on... IF the rules are consistent.

Do the above events represent the 4 minutes added time from the referee?

Brentford v Brighton

View attachment 181557

Again as above.... In this game we have 8 subsitutions and a couple of yellow cards. The referee decides that this amounts to just 3 minutes added time.

Man City v Villa

View attachment 181559

Then you have the City game.... 2 goals, 9 subsitutions and a yellow in the second half, yet the ref only saw this as 4 minutes added time.

Really Mr England?? Really Premier League..... it's as much of a mockery as the VAR.

You can't excuse the manner in which we fail to see games out and how we concede stupid late goals, but the inconsistencies are ridiculous never the less.

Saturday's for me they can actually have because well... 6 goals, a disallowed goal, subs galore.... it does actually amount for once on stoppages (as shite as it turned out to be).... but ordinarily the stoppages are wank.

You're brave mate.. you'll get the same bashing off the same posters. Of course little old Sheffield United get the same treatment as the top 7 and were just utter shit is the only reason we're not fit for the PL

 

[finlaytheblade]

You're brave mate.. you'll get the same bashing off the same posters. Of course little old Sheffield United get the same treatment as the top 7 and were just utter shit is the only reason we're not fit for the PL

I have said it in a previous post " take time keeping out of the referees hands".it's the only way to get consistency.Ref would still have control over when the clock stops and starts with injuries etc, A biggish clock controlled by an official similar to var which is available to see for the fans ! would take away a lot of the mystery of extra time.
Refs are human and certain situations will impact on his ability to realise real time and unless he does stop his watch could easily be misconstrued .
Maybe not doable but something of this kind would surely help to get more consistency.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

I have said it in a previous post " take time keeping out of the referees hands".it's the only way to get consistency.Ref would still have control over when the clock stops and starts with injuries etc, A biggish clock controlled by an official similar to var which is available to see for the fans ! would take away a lot of the mystery of extra time.
Refs are human and certain situations will impact on his ability to realise real time and unless he does stop his watch could easily be misconstrued .
Maybe not doable but something of this kind would surely help to get more consistency.

We are utter shite and have our self's to blame but there's no way we're seen the same as a Klopps Liverpool or an Artetas Arsenal to the average PL guy.

If you think the PL is 100% normal and fine then you don't take much interest in the games/ league.

 

[Geordie Blade]

A lot of the substitutions that the OP cited were double substitutions, so it was only half as many as claimed.

It’s also a myth that each goal or substitution adds “x seconds” to stoppage time. It depends on how long they took. Our substitutions against Fulham were very slow, and the goals in particular took a long time to get to the re-starts.

I have no doubt that there are some biases in favour of big clubs. However, I don’t see why the supreme powers would give a shit about us beating Fulham.

 

[ATL Recs]

We are utter shite and have our self's to blame but there's no way we're seen the same as a Klopps Liverpool or an Artetas Arsenal to the average PL guy.

If you think the PL is 100% normal and fine then you don't take much interest in the games/ league.

Seem to recall Arsenal had 9 minutes added to a home game this season
Can’t remember who but it was a Sunday game on Sky

 

[Aycliffe Blade]

I have said it in a previous post " take time keeping out of the referees hands".it's the only way to get consistency.Ref would still have control over when the clock stops and starts with injuries etc, A biggish clock controlled by an official similar to var which is available to see for the fans ! would take away a lot of the mystery of extra time.
Refs are human and certain situations will impact on his ability to realise real time and unless he does stop his watch could easily be misconstrued .
Maybe not doable but something of this kind would surely help to get more consistency.

I've thought this for some time. I've also said right from the first Var season - 30 seconds max for a decision, if it needs minutes it's not a clear & obvious error in my opinion.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I try my hardest to maintain a level headed opinion that it is all swings and roundabouts but LS16Blade has pointed it out again tonight in the shoutbox....and well, he's right isn't he? It's hard not to think that it is all bias as hell.

Arsenal vs Luton

View attachment 181556

I didn't watch it, but looking at the stats above. Even if you pair certain events / substitutions together, you are looking at a decent chunk of time added on... IF the rules are consistent.

Do the above events represent the 4 minutes added time from the referee?

Brentford v Brighton

View attachment 181557

Again as above.... In this game we have 8 subsitutions and a couple of yellow cards. The referee decides that this amounts to just 3 minutes added time.

Man City v Villa

View attachment 181559

Then you have the City game.... 2 goals, 9 subsitutions and a yellow in the second half, yet the ref only saw this as 4 minutes added time.

Really Mr England?? Really Premier League..... it's as much of a mockery as the VAR.

You can't excuse the manner in which we fail to see games out and how we concede stupid late goals, but the inconsistencies are ridiculous never the less.

Saturday's for me they can actually have because well... 6 goals, a disallowed goal, subs galore.... it does actually amount for once on stoppages (as shite as it turned out to be).... but ordinarily the stoppages are wank.

The lowest of those is 3 minutes (tiny these days).
If the ref had only added 3 minutes against Fulham, the result would be the same.

 

[mattbianco1]

I try my hardest to maintain a level headed opinion that it is all swings and roundabouts but LS16Blade has pointed it out again tonight in the shoutbox....and well, he's right isn't he? It's hard not to think that it is all bias as hell.

Arsenal vs Luton

View attachment 181556

I didn't watch it, but looking at the stats above. Even if you pair certain events / substitutions together, you are looking at a decent chunk of time added on... IF the rules are consistent.

Do the above events represent the 4 minutes added time from the referee?

Brentford v Brighton

View attachment 181557

Again as above.... In this game we have 8 subsitutions and a couple of yellow cards. The referee decides that this amounts to just 3 minutes added time.

Man City v Villa

View attachment 181559

Then you have the City game.... 2 goals, 9 subsitutions and a yellow in the second half, yet the ref only saw this as 4 minutes added time.

Really Mr England?? Really Premier League..... it's as much of a mockery as the VAR.

You can't excuse the manner in which we fail to see games out and how we concede stupid late goals, but the inconsistencies are ridiculous never the less.

Saturday's for me they can actually have because well... 6 goals, a disallowed goal, subs galore.... it does actually amount for once on stoppages (as shite as it turned out to be).... but ordinarily the stoppages are wank.

Are you referring to 14 added on Saturday?

Arblaster was down 4 or 5 getting treatment
United's 3rd goal VAR was another 4 mins
4th goal another 3 or 4 mins
That's without 7 substitutions and 5 goals

 

[LS16Blade]

I don’t believe that it is even about the ‘size‘ of clubs - in the traditional sense as perceived by most football supporters - but rather, it is more nuanced. It is a question of whether you are in ‘the Club’ - namely, ‘the Premier League club’ with its many facetted support structure in PGMOL and the broadcast and print media.

If you’re not - and we’re certainly not, which I recall posting at the beginning of the season - you are unlikely to be treated in the same way as those that are in the club. Sheffield United - and in many ways we have fed into this ourselves - are the scruffy Northern undesirables of Bassett and Warnock; of spiky individuals highlighting injustices and officialdom failings publicly; and of not allowing the Tevez debacle go quietly.

The Premier League does not want or enjoy that sort of embarrassment; it doesn’t benefit the global product. The recent media comments of ‘top‘ referee Mark Clattenburg - someone who definitely was in the club - that as a referee “you know Sheffield United“, merely shone a light on what factors are often in play.

i said at the start of the season, that Burnley are in the club - purely by virtue of Vincent Kompany who is regarded as an all-time Premier League great. I also predicted that they would, without a shadow of doubt, be relegated with us because their defence was hopeless, but the media - as many have noted - have been remarkably generous with Burnley when contrasted with how it has been open season for pundits to be really quite vicious towards United in a manner that has rarely even been seen In relation to other Premier League strugglers.

A lot of what I see in Premier League football these days, frankly makes me nauseous. For instance, it noticeable how the ‘elite’ officials now enjoy being part of the club. The high-fiving and back-slapping as referees greet players from the teams who are established in the club, like their great friends, at the beginning and end of matches is as revealing as it is unprofessional. Of course, the ridiculous reality is that the players at the established clubs are indeed akin to friends with the ‘elite’ group of referees who are always appointed to these matches - Michael Oliver, for instance, must meet the players of the Big 6 sides, once a month at least.

We’re simply not in the club. A club like Fulham, however, is - be that through geographical desirability, wealthy ownership, relatively marquee signings, regular top flight presence or even swimming pools in the stand. Even Luton have more cache than us this season through being in the orbit of London, being ‘the cinderella story’ for the season, and through actually signing a couple of members of ‘the club‘ in Barkley and Townsend.

It might be rightly characterised as ‘unconscious bias’ but it is ridiculous to suggest that teams are treated even-handedly by officials. As dire as we’ve been this season, the amount of added time applied by the officials on the very rare occasions that we have led at 90 minutes - at Spurs, Villa, Luton and home to Fulham - was incredible. It almost betrayed an official line of ‘Sheffield United always bleat on about playing by the rules and calling out refs, so let’s let them have it’! Even on the few goals that we’ve scored, we always seem to have to wait an eternity for VAR to check for a reason - any reason - to disallow.

That was even the case against Luton at home when both of our goals were subject to prolonged review - as I say even little Luton rank higher than us this season. But, Luton, of course, rank much lower than, say, Man U hence when Man U were clinging on and time-wasting to high heaven under siege at Kenilworth Road, the referee didn’t add on the 11 or 14 minutes that he would against a Sheffield United - even though most observers felt a substantial chunk of added time should be coming. When Rob Edwards was interviewed afterwards about the tiny amount of added time, he hit the nail squarely on the head - “Man United are winning so it’s 4 minutes, isn’t it?”.

Quite.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I don’t believe that it is even about the ‘size‘ of clubs - in the traditional sense as perceived by most football supporters - but rather, it is more nuanced. It is a question of whether you are in ‘the Club’ - namely, ‘the Premier League club’ with its many facetted support structure in PGMOL and the broadcast and print media.

If you’re not - and we’re certainly not, which I recall posting at the beginning of the season - you are unlikely to be treated in the same way as those that are in the club. Sheffield United - and in many ways we have fed into this ourselves - are the scruffy Northern undesirables of Bassett and Warnock; of spiky individuals highlighting injustices and officialdom failings publicly; and of not allowing the Tevez debacle go quietly.

The Premier League does not want or enjoy that sort of embarrassment; it doesn’t benefit the global product. The recent media comments of ‘top‘ referee Mark Clattenburg - someone who definitely was in the club - that as a referee “you know Sheffield United“, merely shone a light on what factors are often in play.

i said at the start of the season, that Burnley are in the club - purely by virtue of Vincent Kompany who is regarded as an all-time Premier League great. I also predicted that they would, without a shadow of doubt, be relegated with us because their defence was hopeless, but the media - as many have noted - have been remarkably generous with Burnley when contrasted with how it has been open season for pundits to be really quite vicious towards United in a manner that has rarely even been seen In relation to other Premier League strugglers.

A lot of what I see in Premier League football these days, frankly makes me nauseous. For instance, it noticeable how the ‘elite’ officials now enjoy being part of the club. The high-fiving and back-slapping as referees greet players from the teams who are established in the club, like their great friends, at the beginning and end of matches is as revealing as it is unprofessional. Of course, the ridiculous reality is that the players at the established clubs are indeed akin to friends with the ‘elite’ group of referees who are always appointed to these matches - Michael Oliver, for instance, must meet the players of the Big 6 sides, once a month at least.

We’re simply not in the club. A club like Fulham, however, is - be that through geographical desirability, wealthy ownership, relatively marquee signings, regular top flight presence or even swimming pools in the stand. Even Luton have more cache than us this season through being in the orbit of London, being ‘the cinderella story’ for the season, and through actually signing a couple of members of ‘the club‘ in Barkley and Townsend.

It might be rightly characterised as ‘unconscious bias’ but it is ridiculous to suggest that teams are treated even-handedly by officials. As dire as we’ve been this season, the amount of added time applied by the officials on the very rare occasions that we have led at 90 minutes - at Spurs, Villa, Luton and home to Fulham - was incredible. It almost betrayed an official line of ‘Sheffield United always bleat on about playing by the rules and calling out refs, so let’s let them have it’! Even on the few goals that we’ve scored, we always seem to have to wait an eternity for VAR to check for a reason - any reason - to disallow.

That was even the case against Luton at home when both of our goals were subject to prolonged review - as I say even little Luton rank higher than us this season. But, Luton, of course, rank much lower than, say, Man U hence when Man U were clinging on and time-wasting to high heaven under siege at Kenilworth Road, the referee didn’t add on the 11 or 14 minutes that he would against a Sheffield United - even though most observers felt a substantial chunk of added time should be coming. When Rob Edwards was interviewed afterwards about the tiny amount of added time, he hit the nail squarely on the head - “Man United are winning so it’s 4 minutes, isn’t it?”.

Quite.

So even Luton and Burnley are in 'the club'!

Which other teams in the Premier League apart from us aren't in 'the club'?

 

[Sheffsteel]

I've thought this for some time. I've also said right from the first Var season - 30 seconds max for a decision, if it needs minutes it's not a clear & obvious error in my opinion.

But then VAR would get stick for making the wrong decision. Fans on the losing team would say they could make the decision in 10 seconds so why couldn’t VAR.

Theres a common theme. Virtually everytime a team loses the fans, manager, players look for excuses, someone to blame which is usually the ref or VAR.

Take away VAR and complaints would increase even more as shockingly clear
errors would be made.

 

[Sheffsteel]

So even Luton and Burnley are in 'the club'!

Which other teams in the Premier League apart from us aren't in 'the club'?

When we played Wolves beating them 1-0 with a dodgy last minute penalty some of their fans insisted we were “in the club”.

Whilst others insisted the FA and PL have a vendetta against Wolves, apparently every referee and VAR operator wants them to lose.

As I said it’s become the fashion for fans of losing or struggling teams to make excuses by looking for a scapegoat who they can blame.

Sheff Wed haven’t had a penalty this season. Do all referees hate them too? Maybe they have instructions to punish Sheffield because we are the true home of football so it’s like a dirty little secret because the FA and media always publicise Wembley to be the home of football.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

Maybe football could go the way of rugby with regards to time keeping. Stop the clock when there’s an injury (20secs grace to prevent stop start) stop the clock when there’s a sub. After 45mins the next time the ball goes out that’s game over.
At least everyone would know where they stood then. The psychological swings for both teams (positive/negative) is huge when 14mins goes up from the 4th official.
And of course it would eliminate in the inconsistency

Edit: and of course VAR checks when the game has stopped

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

When we played Wolves beating them 1-0 with a dodgy last minute penalty some of their fans insisted we were “in the club”.

Whilst others insisted the FA and PL have a vendetta against Wolves, apparently every referee and VAR operator wants them to lose.

I want to know why we weren't in 'the club' in 2019-20 and 2020-21.

We had Premier League protected Everton loverboy and 40 England cap Jagielka in the squad.

Surely he had more clout than Ross Barkley or Andros Townsend?

It's almost as if it's all a complete load of old shite.

 

[mattbianco1]

Just flicked through the re-run...

Arblaster goes down on 48'
Play restarts 52'
(4mins accumulated)

Brereton-Diaz 2nd goal 70'
[VAR] Play restarts 75'
(9mins acc)

McBurnie disallowed goal 82'
[VAR + 5 subs] Play restarts 85'
(12mins acc)

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Just flicked through the re-run...

Arblaster goes down on 48'
Play restarts 52'
(4mins accumulated)

Brereton-Diaz 2nd goal 70'
[VAR] Play restarts 75'
(9mins acc)

McBurnie disallowed goal 82'
[VAR + 5 subs] Play restarts 85'
(12mins acc)

Yeah but Fulham are tripping the light fantastic on the dancefloor in the club.

We're stood on the pavement across the street eating kebab meat and chips.

 

[Brian Blessed]

Honestly I'm sick of hearing the whinging about those 14 minutes, which was pretty much accurate as I was trying to tell people on Saturday. If Fulham had equalised on 115 minutes I could understand it, but 8 minutes, 10 minutes, 14 minutes, it made no difference to the result.

 

[niktheblade]

Just flicked through the re-run...

Arblaster goes down on 48'
Play restarts 52'
(4mins accumulated)

Brereton-Diaz 2nd goal 70'
[VAR] Play restarts 75'
(9mins acc)

McBurnie disallowed goal 82'
[VAR + 5 subs] Play restarts 85'
(12mins acc)

Not that it matters considering when their equaliser was scored, but....

What happened in the BD goal where VAR intervened for a possible red card?

I haven't watched it back and couldn't see in real time, but apparently their keeper either had one of their players or one of ours in a headlock.

We are 3-1 up, additional time should not be at detriment to us if VAR has to check a possible infringement by one of their players, compounded if it involved their player too? what I mean is, time is against them to get back into the game, one of their players does something stupid and it gets checked for 5 minutes and play is deemed to continue.

Ok lads, you've been a set of dicks there and potentially cost yourselves some time, but here, have it back to chase the game.

I know this gets complicated if they end up 4-3 up 10 mins later and its us who is chasing, but it just pissed me off at the time.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Just flicked through the re-run...

Arblaster goes down on 48'
Play restarts 52'
(4mins accumulated)

Brereton-Diaz 2nd goal 70'
[VAR] Play restarts 75'
(9mins acc)

McBurnie disallowed goal 82'
[VAR + 5 subs] Play restarts 85'
(12mins acc)

And they played 116 mins in the end. I'm still shocked Fulham didn't score a winner.

 

[jt64]

We are 3-1 up, additional time should not be at detriment to us if VAR has to check a possible infringement by one of their players, compounded if it involved their player too? what I mean is, time is against them to get back into the game, one of their players does something stupid and it gets checked for 5 minutes and play is deemed to continue.

Ok lads, you've been a set of dicks there and potentially cost yourselves some time, but here, have it back to chase the game.

I know this gets complicated if they end up 4-3 up 10 mins later and its us who is chasing, but it just pissed me off at the time.

Are you actually saying that the clock should not have been stopped because we were winning, but if we were losing then add the time on?

 

[LS16Blade]

So even Luton and Burnley are in 'the club'!

Which other teams in the Premier League apart from us aren't in 'the club'?

Judging by this season’s officiating, Wolves and Forest certainly appear to have done something to upset the powers-that-be. I’ve never felt that Man City get the same favouritism as the other ‘Big 6’ clubs, either, but when your players and manager are as superior as theirs are, you can negate the impact.

If Luton survive, they won’t remain in the club. Just like we were banished after the first Wilder season…particularly after Wilder became vocal about substitute rules and went up against the bigger powers in the game, such as Liverpool.

 

[mattbianco1]

What happened in the BD goal where VAR intervened for a possible red card?

I've still not seen any conclusive replays. Nobody seems to have spoken about it.
It looks like Leno kicks out at one of our players and that's when everybody comes steaming into the net.

As always, us in the crowd saw - "possible red card" and immediately think it's one of ours. It should have said on the screen - "Checking Red Card for Leno".

The VAR checks inside the stadium need to be improved massively

 

[scouseblade]

Judging by this season’s officiating, Wolves and Forest certainly appear to have done something to upset the powers-that-be. I’ve never felt that Man City get the same favouritism as the other ‘Big 6’ clubs, either, but when your players and manager are as superior as theirs are, you can negate the impact.

If Luton survive, they won’t remain in the club. Just like we were banished after the first Wilder season…particularly after Wilder became vocal about substitute rules and went up against the bigger powers in the game, such as Liverpool.

Dont get me started on substitute rules. Yes, lets allow a team full of internationals to change half their team during a game vs a team with U21s on the bench. This plus the additional time is tipping the scales in favour of the bigger (more attractive to watch clubs). I total reset of the rules is required. IFAB are just a bunch of self serving wankers.

 

[Bladesman]

Just flicked through the re-run...

Arblaster goes down on 48'
Play restarts 52'
(4mins accumulated)

Brereton-Diaz 2nd goal 70'
[VAR] Play restarts 75'
(9mins acc)

McBurnie disallowed goal 82'
[VAR + 5 subs] Play restarts 85'
(12mins acc)

14 minutes went up on the board and about 16 minutes ended up being played.

 

[LS16Blade]

Some pretty facile replies on this thread.

If people truly believe that the rules are being applied even-handedly by officials in the Premier League, then there are clearly plenty who - as they used to say in Sheffield - “are happy to stand for t’ egg under t’ hat”.

 

[Bladesman]

Some pretty facile replies on this thread.

If people truly believe that the rules are being applied even-handedly by officials in the Premier League, then there are clearly plenty who - as they used to say in Sheffield - “are happy to stand for t’ egg under t’ hat”.

FIFA can be corrupt, UEFA can be corrupt, Serie A can be corrupt, La Liga can be corrupt BUT apparently the Premier League which is the most lucrative league in the world is not corrupt at all.

 

[Brian Blessed]

I've still not seen any conclusive replays. Nobody seems to have spoken about it.
It looks like Leno kicks out at one of our players and that's when everybody comes steaming into the net.

As always, us in the crowd saw - "possible red card" and immediately think it's one of ours. It should have said on the screen - "Checking Red Card for Leno".

The VAR checks inside the stadium need to be improved massively

I assumed it was about McBurnie, who was getting involved as usual, but both at the time and studying replays I can't see anything worthy of a red card check from any player so fuck knows why it took so long. Assumed the delay was to check for handball against BBD at first

 

[scouseblade]

VAR should be time limited. Literally, they have 30-60 seconds to look at something. If they cannot see it then carry on. Same with offsides, if it aint absolutely bloody obvious its offside because a players testicle swung slightly forward as he ran, then give the god damn goal. VAR is too clinical and surgical. It is suppose to correct absolute howlers. In cricket they have umpires call if the ball is clipping the stumps because the is always a % of error in the system, same with these lines for offside. If it is too tight to really tell, then give the benefit to the referee and assistant.

Next season will be fund with the new "Wenger" offside where its doesnt matter if you are slightly in front, if any part of the players body is in the line with the last defender, it will be onside. Expect the current 3.26 goals per game to go up considerably.