Athleticism...

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Watching this afternoon the thing that struck me the most was how much our athleticism has increased. Big kudos to Hecky for that as he's directly addressed our biggest area of weakness since the latter days of Tufty's reign.

The vision of Doyle in midfield snapping into tackles, Ndiaye wasping around and a back 5 incredibly more mobile and energetic than we've had in a long long time.

For me this has been our biggest difference this season. We look like we did in the League One campaign where we look fitter, faster more agile than everyone we've played!

Well done Hecky!

 

[Katzenjammer]

Certainly a far cry from last year, when all we had was athletes foot.

 

[Lowen]

The RND-Lowe left side has been a big part of this, shame injury is going to break that combination up for a bit.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

The RND-Lowe left side has been a big part of this, shame injury is going to break that combination up for a bit.

Yep. I think just adding the likes of Doyle, RND and Anel to the first XI has obviously made an impact. But even the likes of Norwood, Egan and McBurnie (dare I say!) Look like they're got an extra yard of pace and extra lead in their pencil...

 

[Bladesman]

Watching this afternoon the thing that struck me the most was how much our athleticism has increased. Big kudos to Hecky for that as he's directly addressed our biggest area of weakness since the latter days of Tufty's reign.

The vision of Doyle in midfield snapping into tackles, Ndiaye wasping around and a back 5 incredibly more mobile and energetic than we've had in a long long time.

For me this has been our biggest difference this season. We look like we did in the League One campaign where we look fitter, faster more agile than everyone we've played!

Well done Hecky!

It may have been brought up elsewhere already but apparently we brought in a fitness and conditioning coach in from Preston during the summer. Hence why the likes of Ndiaye and McBurnie look like they could smash through a brick wall.

 

[bakeblade]

It may have been brought up elsewhere already but apparently we brought in a fitness and conditioning coach in from Preston during the summer. Hence why the likes of Ndiaye and McBurnie look like they could smash through a brick wall.

Dr Tom Little, 20 years experience
He seems to be doing the business

 

[Bladesman]

Dr Tom Little, 20 years experience
He seems to be doing the business

Yep seems we got him in June but not seen it announced on our website only Preston's. He had been at Preston for nearly a decade so he must be good at what he does.

 

[coaxingstar71]

For as long as I can remember, fans have always gone on about us having no pace in the side. Apart from Norwood, who couldn't run a bath, the rest of the first team are no slouches. Good to see we've got some pace in the back five now.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

It may have been brought up elsewhere already but apparently we brought in a fitness and conditioning coach in from Preston during the summer. Hence why the likes of Ndiaye and McBurnie look like they could smash through a brick wall.

At the risk of being accused of bias, I went to school with Tom and he was a bright kid back then... As he still lives in Glossop, wasn't a big surprise he took the job with us!

Goes to show, in 2022 there's more to it than just being a good football manager. You need to put together a high performance sporting programme.

 

[SwissBlade]

At the risk of being accused of bias, I went to school with Tom and he was a bright kid back then... As he still lives in Glossop, wasn't a big surprise he took the job with us!

Goes to show, in 2022 there's more to it than just being a good football manager. You need to put together a high performance sporting programme.

Is that what a good football manager does? Gets the players playing to the best of their ability and beyond by using tactics, fitness etc

Hecky hasn’t done anything new as we’ve been doing this since league one, but when Wilder left the club binned the sports scientists and fitness coaches as well… Slav seemingly didn’t have anyone when he came in and only brought someone in from September I think (which was too late). I think he also left with Slav

Bringing in the fitness guy this summer was the right thing to do though and it might help reduce some of the soft tissue injuries were getting

 

[SwissBlade]

I will add though that I’ve said fitness will be especially key this season since it’s a very odd season (again) with a break in the middle. So we can look to get players peaking now until November and then after the break until through until May.

How the players were brought up to fitness with a shorter summer break and how we manage the players during the World Cup break will be a huge part of the programme as neither will be long enough for a recovery and preseason, so it’s about managing fitness and injured players so that they’re coming back at the right place and not picking up non impact injuries

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Is that what a good football manager does? Gets the players playing to the best of their ability and beyond by using tactics, fitness etc

Hecky hasn’t done anything new as we’ve been doing this since league one, but when Wilder left the club binned the sports scientists and fitness coaches as well… Slav seemingly didn’t have anyone when he came in and only brought someone in from September I think (which was too late). I think he also left with Slav

Bringing in the fitness guy this summer was the right thing to do though and it might help reduce some of the soft tissue injuries were getting

It's certainly what good ones do, but not every one. I guess its being revisionist but I used to watch the warm ups under Slav and shake my head at how amateur they were. I'm guessing the players also felt it wasn't a 'high performance' culture and this was reflected on the pitch.

I don't think we can underestimate how crucial this is in the modern game. That second PL season the top teams seemed to move ahead in terms of physical performance and it remains the big difference between the top half of the PL and the rest of the pyramid.

 

[SwissBlade]

It's certainly what good ones do, but not every one. I guess its being revisionist but I used to watch the warm ups under Slav and shake my head at how amateur they were. I'm guessing the players also felt it wasn't a 'high performance' culture and this was reflected on the pitch.

I don't think we can underestimate how crucial this is in the modern game. That second PL season the top teams seemed to move ahead in terms of physical performance and it remains the big difference between the top half of the PL and the rest of the pyramid.

Yeah Slav certainly tried to make it all about what we did with the ball and maintaining possession was key.

The problem with that is as soon as you’re out of possession you also need to win it back and get back into positions…

Wilder and Hecky appreciate that what you do out of possession will ultimately win you games or at worse prevent you losing…

Hecky had to get fitness levels up last season but since the players were very much off the pace when he came in he had to bring those levels up whilst trying to make ground in the league.

Hecky has also had an approach where we try to keep the same first 11 together and we haven’t been brilliant at making subs to preserve players (with two games a week or in warmer conditions), but now we have more subs allowed, water breaks in the warm and players on the bench that are as good as those in the starting 11. So we are better placed to bring in fresh legs.

Worth noting that NDiaye is finishing games now. With a week until the next game this is something we can do, but he will need managing (like many others) due to his high work rates and effectiveness when he’s in peak condition. Yesterday he was almost unplayable at times, like Berge

 

[Melbourne Blade]

I will add though that I’ve said fitness will be especially key this season since it’s a very odd season (again) with a break in the middle. So we can look to get players peaking now until November and then after the break until through until May.

How the players were brought up to fitness with a shorter summer break and how we manage the players during the World Cup break will be a huge part of the programme as neither will be long enough for a recovery and preseason, so it’s about managing fitness and injured players so that they’re coming back at the right place and not picking up non impact injuries

Was chatting to a mate at wknd about this as I think we have only a couple away for world cup duty?

I'm sure there'll be a tonne of friendlies during the 4 week break unless clubs are it as a early winter break and give everyone 2 weeks off then a 2 week mini pre season? As the rest of season condensed it's going to be a busy 5 months.

 

[SwissBlade]

Was chatting to a mate at wknd about this as I think we have only a couple away for world cup duty?

I'm sure there'll be a tonne of friendlies during the 4 week break unless clubs are it as a early winter break and give everyone 2 weeks off then a 2 week mini pre season? As the rest of season condensed it's going to be a busy 5 months.

Yeah that’s the thing, we won’t have many away and it’s a difficult one to manage. You don’t want them having a complete break but they need to keep ticking over but then they need to be fully at it when the season restarts

I guess there’ll be a lot of clubs going to warmer climbs in that time

 

[cahill]

Watching this afternoon the thing that struck me the most was how much our athleticism has increased. Big kudos to Hecky for that as he's directly addressed our biggest area of weakness since the latter days of Tufty's reign.

The vision of Doyle in midfield snapping into tackles, Ndiaye wasping around and a back 5 incredibly more mobile and energetic than we've had in a long long time.

For me this has been our biggest difference this season. We look like we did in the League One campaign where we look fitter, faster more agile than everyone we've played!

Well done Hecky!

The flip side of that is risk of injury due to intense work rate. Reyt dilemma

 

[cahill]

Whatever it is we are f*****g good to watch.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

First real pre season since before our first premier League season and it shows

 

[Old Programme seller]

‘If’ we are to be promoted we’re gonna need a bigger squad, when we went up last time we were very lucky not to get many injuries in the first season but 2nd season made up for it players were dropping like flies with nobody to replace them.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Yep seems we got him in June but not seen it announced on our website only Preston's. He had been at Preston for nearly a decade so he must be good at what he does.

Since he came to us, Preston have stopped scoring and we’re doing it for fun, what a signing!

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Yeah Slav certainly tried to make it all about what we did with the ball and maintaining possession was key.

The problem with that is as soon as you’re out of possession you also need to win it back and get back into positions…

Wilder and Hecky appreciate that what you do out of possession will ultimately win you games or at worse prevent you losing…

Hecky had to get fitness levels up last season but since the players were very much off the pace when he came in he had to bring those levels up whilst trying to make ground in the league.

Hecky has also had an approach where we try to keep the same first 11 together and we haven’t been brilliant at making subs to preserve players (with two games a week or in warmer conditions), but now we have more subs allowed, water breaks in the warm and players on the bench that are as good as those in the starting 11. So we are better placed to bring in fresh legs.

Worth noting that NDiaye is finishing games now. With a week until the next game this is something we can do, but he will need managing (like many others) due to his high work rates and effectiveness when he’s in peak condition. Yesterday he was almost unplayable at times, like Berge

Pretty sure we've had this conversation before Swissler but the stats show players cover between 10-12km per match, and if they're playing x2 games a week, that's a lot of mileage in their legs. Pretty sure Mo Farah wouldn't do x2 races a week for 9 months of the year...

These guys are totally different athletes to what they used to be and any lack of dedication to this from players (Mousset?) and coaches (Slav's regime) and you're suddenly no longer competitive...

My lad has started training with Chesterfield U11's and even at that age (and at that level) there's a massive emphasis on legwork and fitness!! I was surprised at how hard they have them working!

 

[SwissBlade]

Pretty sure we've had this conversation before Swissler but the stats show players cover between 10-12km per match, and if they're playing x2 games a week, that's a lot of mileage in their legs. Pretty sure Mo Farah wouldn't do x2 races a week for 9 months of the year...

These guys are totally different athletes to what they used to be and any lack of dedication to this from players (Mousset?) and coaches (Slav's regime) and you're suddenly no longer competitive...

My lad has started training with Chesterfield U11's and even at that age (and at that level) there's a massive emphasis on legwork and fitness!! I was surprised at how hard they have them working!

We have indeed mate, it’s something we can only guess at the details of but you’re right, players are having to cover huge distances and not let performance levels drop.

I used to train hard for 1 or 2 Ironman races a year and that training was always ramped up with short recoveries between races.

It makes me laugh when people say that we look unfit in the first two games of the season when they’ve got to play another 44 league games in one of the hardest leagues, physically in the world.

It’s part of the reason why teams like forest and ourselves last season went from bottom in September to top 6 in May.

You just have to look at the likes of Billy to see what a difference the strength and conditioning aspect has benefitted him in the last few years. Players need to be tactically smart, physically fit for endurance and be as strong as an ox.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

We have indeed mate, it’s something we can only guess at the details of but you’re right, players are having to cover huge distances and not let performance levels drop.

I used to train hard for 1 or 2 Ironman races a year and that training was always ramped up with short recoveries between races.

It makes me laugh when people say that we look unfit in the first two games of the season when they’ve got to play another 44 league games in one of the hardest leagues, physically in the world.

It’s part of the reason why teams like forest and ourselves last season went from bottom in September to top 6 in May.

You just have to look at the likes of Billy to see what a difference the strength and conditioning aspect has benefitted him in the last few years. Players need to be tactically smart, physically fit for endurance and be as strong as an ox.

Exactly this buddy. You know how hard it is to recover from an endurance race/tough session (still can't fathom what goes in to training for an iron man!!). These guys are doing it twice a week!!

Interestingly, I had this argument at the end of last season and said Slav being shit actually aided our Play Off push, because down the stretch our players were fresher. We'd spent the first quarter of the season covering less ground, doing fewer hard runs and less sprints. Therefore we still had juice going in to the last month.

My only fear (and this is being ultra negative) is what state we're in at the end of the season. Will we do a 'Biesla' and run out of steam down the stretch? Fingers crossed it won't matter because we have enough points...

 

[SwissBlade]

Exactly this buddy. You know how hard it is to recover from an endurance race/tough session (still can't fathom what goes in to training for an iron man!!). These guys are doing it twice a week!!

Interestingly, I had this argument at the end of last season and said Slav being shit actually aided our Play Off push, because down the stretch our players were fresher. We'd spent the first quarter of the season covering less ground, doing fewer hard runs and less sprints. Therefore we still had juice going in to the last month.

My only fear (and this is being ultra negative) is what state we're in at the end of the season. Will we do a 'Biesla' and run out of steam down the stretch? Fingers crossed it won't matter because we have enough points...

I agree, last season meant we peaked later. But the lack of conditioning in the summer meant we were pushing harder to reach that late peak… we were chasing the fitness, so to speak. This is why, in my view that people can pick up further injuries after a lay off (injuries or a break). You know the impact that lack of training can have on muscles and they need bringing back up to fitness slowly otherwise things like hamstrings will go. That was certainly the case for mousset since he’s very binary. He’s all on or all off. His muscles will have been unprepared for games

Max Lowe yesterday was perhaps an outlier on this but he put a full length sprint in which was a stretch too far

This season could indeed go all Bielsa. Wilder admitted after the first covid break that because he didn’t know when we’d be back, the players were kept at full tilt, match ready using watt bikes etc to maintain intensity levels… and by the restart we were knackered.

This season has to be managed carefully and we need to get the most out of the break but then be on fire again at the restart. Having more points on the board will perhaps dictate how we approach the lay off…

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Watching this afternoon the thing that struck me the most was how much our athleticism has increased. Big kudos to Hecky for that as he's directly addressed our biggest area of weakness since the latter days of Tufty's reign.

The vision of Doyle in midfield snapping into tackles, Ndiaye wasping around and a back 5 incredibly more mobile and energetic than we've had in a long long time.

For me this has been our biggest difference this season. We look like we did in the League One campaign where we look fitter, faster more agile than everyone we've played!

Well done Hecky!

The like is for “wasping”…

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

The like is for “wasping”…

Can't take credit for that - it's stolen from the Danny Baker Treehouse Podcast...

Been waiting ages to use it, but certainly Young Illiman is the epitome of it!!

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I agree, last season meant we peaked later. But the lack of conditioning in the summer meant we were pushing harder to reach that late peak… we were chasing the fitness, so to speak. This is why, in my view that people can pick up further injuries after a lay off (injuries or a break). You know the impact that lack of training can have on muscles and they need bringing back up to fitness slowly otherwise things like hamstrings will go. That was certainly the case for mousset since he’s very binary. He’s all on or all off. His muscles will have been unprepared for games

Max Lowe yesterday was perhaps an outlier on this but he put a full length sprint in which was a stretch too far

This season could indeed go all Bielsa. Wilder admitted after the first covid break that because he didn’t know when we’d be back, the players were kept at full tilt, match ready using watt bikes etc to maintain intensity levels… and by the restart we were knackered.

This season has to be managed carefully and we need to get the most out of the break but then be on fire again at the restart. Having more points on the board will perhaps dictate how we approach the lay off…

Absolutely. Mousset is an example of an elite athlete, putting in elite performances, at an elite level with less than elite attitude/recovery/lifestyle!! Something had to give, and it did.

In my past I trained with Mark Lewis Francis who Mousset reminds me a lot of. Unbelievably gifted athlete, but with a lifestyle totally unconducive with elite performance.

Back on topic - looks like Hecky has a deep squad of players which should enable him to manage their levels. Especially with a months break pre-season where they can reset, and come back stronger down the stretch...

 

[Snowflake]

‘If’ we are to be promoted we’re gonna need a bigger squad, when we went up last time we were very lucky not to get many injuries in the first season but 2nd season made up for it players were dropping like flies with nobody to replace them.

We are only allowed 23 so we cannot expect to have players, other than youngsters, who are not able to play

 

[metalblade]

I have noticed Ndiaye seems to be able to last longer than the 60mins he could do last season before cramping up. As a squad we look fitter than last season especially McBurnie to who has also been doing extra work in the gym, and it is starting to pay off.

 

[SwissBlade]

Absolutely. Mousset is an example of an elite athlete, putting in elite performances, at an elite level with less than elite attitude/recovery/lifestyle!! Something had to give, and it did.

In my past I trained with Mark Lewis Francis who Mousset reminds me a lot of. Unbelievably gifted athlete, but with a lifestyle totally unconducive with elite performance.

Back on topic - looks like Hecky has a deep squad of players which should enable him to manage their levels. Especially with a months break pre-season where they can reset, and come back stronger down the stretch...

We had a deep squad before but it contained a lot of fillers.... I think that now the difference is that we have much more experience and/ or capable players for most positions.

Injuries are still a worry with Davies, Clark, Robinson, Stevens, JOC, Lowe, Ozzy, Fleck, Bogle, Coulibaly and Billy all with injuries of varying durations. And as an aside perhaps we should be looking at the left side of the training pitch for land mines given the number of lefties injured on that list. But again, many of these will be coming back later in the season and could be a big relief for players who've played for much of the season