SUFC Transfer Strategy

[FMBlade1]

It seems to have followed a particular theme over the years

1. Identify a few (and by that I mean less than a handful) key targets

2. Refuse to pay the club what they ask for early on in the window to get the price down, and likewise wages for the player

3. If we're lucky we strike an agreement and sign the player, if not...

4. Another club gazumps us, or it falls through because of visa issues, medical or another complication (even us changing our mind)

5. This is where we find ourselves at now. The targets that we cherry picked (with the exception of Davies) are not here, and we suddenly have to look elsewhere having done no groundwork and are forced to either panic buy or go for dregs late on in the window with an unsettled team low on confidence.

6. Use the excuses 'We wanted to see what we had' and 'We had to wait to see how the PL teams confirmed their squads'

I hate mentioning them but clubs like Villa seem to have the right approach. Bid for dozens of players, open negotiations with the agents/clubs early on and get the ball rolling with multiple discussions. If player 1 doesn't work, ok we're down the line with player 2 who plays in the same position and so on.

We cut our options down in the Wilder years by refusing to look for players aboard, ok it worked well for a while going domestic, whilst appreciating UnitedWorld developments we still don't seem to have a decent scouting infrastructure either at present either.

The other thread asking who's running the show and who is running our transfer negotiations is particularly pertinent.

Also adding to the above, whilst it's good to be going for ambitious players like Diallo it's a waste of time and effort if we're counting on them when inevitably they don't come here.

Of course I'm not itk for the club's dealings, but can anyone surmise what our strategy is?

 

[Shirty Blade]

Get r a few high quality loans in to add to our Premier League squad for an immediate return to the promised land. Only it hasn't worked out like that. The squad needs a complete overhalll and now no one at the club knows what to do. May be wrong but that's my take.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

We also seem to have list of players we want and no alternatives. At least under Warnock he'd always have two other players in mind in case he didn't get his first choice. We seem to fail then go back to trying to identify someone leaving us little time to agree fees and contracts etc. Our first season under Wilder was the only summer transfer window I can think of since Bryan Robson took over where I was actually excited by the signings. Ever since they've been underwhelming.

 

[FMBlade1]

I don't want to go over old ground on the other thread but I just don't see why we didn't choose to accept a lower bid for Ramsdale earlier on in the summer so we could use that money then and there to find and get his replacement in and rebuild the team.

It should have been obvious that this squad needed an overhaul not tinkering, in fact I recall even McGoldrick saying so at the end of last season!

I think it was Sir Alex Ferguson who said 'If you don't refresh the squad, the squad refreshes you'.

Wilder in his first season here got it spot on from day one, released all the out of contract players rather than have them in for pre-season and faff about with contracts and proactively went out and got Fleck etc. in early on free transfers.

 

[bromtom]

We don't have a rich owner.

We didn't have a previous rich owner.

The people the previous owner wanted to sell us too aren't rich either, they're at Burnley spending less than we did in the Prem.

I'm not going to complain about our owners not having loads of cash to blunt force transfers when no-one else wants to buy us and put it forward, because I wouldn't want to encourage spending what we don't have and getting in the shit like Wednesday.

I don't know how we improve the situation tbh, I just hope we get something done in the next week and a half and seriously look to improve the scouting and recruitment team before the next window.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It seems to have followed a particular theme over the years

1. Identify a few (and by that I mean less than a handful) key targets

2. Refuse to pay the club what they ask for early on in the window to get the price down, and likewise wages for the player

3. If we're lucky we strike an agreement and sign the player, if not...

4. Another club gazumps us, or it falls through because of visa issues, medical or another complication (even us changing our mind)

5. This is where we find ourselves at now. The targets that we cherry picked (with the exception of Davies) are not here, and we suddenly have to look elsewhere having done no groundwork and are forced to either panic buy or go for dregs late on in the window with an unsettled team low on confidence.

6. Use the excuses 'We wanted to see what we had' and 'We had to wait to see how the PL teams confirmed their squads'

I hate mentioning them but clubs like Villa seem to have the right approach. Bid for dozens of players, open negotiations with the agents/clubs early on and get the ball rolling with multiple discussions. If player 1 doesn't work, ok we're down the line with player 2 who plays in the same position and so on.

We cut our options down in the Wilder years by refusing to look for players aboard, ok it worked well for a while going domestic, whilst appreciating UnitedWorld developments we still don't seem to have a decent scouting infrastructure either at present either.

The other thread asking who's running the show and who is running our transfer negotiations is particularly pertinent.

Also adding to the above, whilst it's good to be going for ambitious players like Diallo it's a waste of time and effort if we're counting on them when inevitably they don't come here.

Of course I'm not itk for the club's dealings, but can anyone surmise what our strategy is?

“ and we suddenly have to look elsewhere having done no groundwork ”

Based on?


“ are forced to either panic buy or go for dregs late on in the window ”

I thought we just had to pay more the nearer the windows closure?

 

[FMBlade1]

“ and we suddenly have to look elsewhere having done no groundwork ”

Based on?


“ are forced to either panic buy or go for dregs late on in the window ”

I thought we just had to pay more the nearer the windows closure?

Well we'll see, Ronaldo Vieria falls through then what happens?

Do you really think we'll pay more nearer the window closure and is that a good thing? Why didn't we get these players in earlier on instead of faffing about?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well we'll see, Ronaldo Vieria falls through then what happens?

Do you really think we'll pay more nearer the window closure and is that a good thing? Why didn't we get these players in earlier on instead of faffing about?

One of the supposed criticisms of of CW was that he didn’t give the board the 4/5 transfer options they required. Are you suggesting - “done no groundwork” - that they have now totally abandoned this idea and if so, based on what? No Viera, so you say there’s nothing else happening, but go onto say we’ll be signing dregs.

Then you pad, or try to, your nonsense to suggest l think paying more is a good thing. Again, based on nothing.

Maybe think before you rush to reply?

 

[BladeInIreland]

We know very little on the strategy or what tools are being used. Given what the Prince said about wilder I find it hard to believe we don't have a list of options if one doesn't work out.

Our issue has been we seem to be in the market for loans. A top player for this league on loan needs to come from a high level. Those clubs hold all the cards, don't need to rush and see these as financial opportunities rather than just player development.

Personally I think this is a mistake, either get a short term strategy in with these loans or a long rebuild with permanent transfers. I don't see the point in hiring a manager who by all accounts "starts slow" and a manager who would need to change the squad so much to play his way yet sign players for a season. If the season is a dud why pay for the privilege of developing other clubs talent.

It is frustrating as hell but given the obvious lack of funds I can see why they would hold out for the maximum we could get for ramsdale. However if we were happy to keep him and still make these deals then a huge chunk of that should be invested in building a team not just fir this season.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I think the thread title is an oxymoron, we don’t have a coherent strategy. It’s just a case of winging it and has been since I can remember.

 

[boss hog]

This owner has facilitated one loan in 12 months, there is no strategy.

 

[Shirty Blade]

I think the thread title is an oxymoron, we don’t have a coherent strategy. It’s just a case of winging it and has been since I can remember.

Absolutely on the money!

 

[JJBlade]

Reasonable, except for number 3

We don't sign anybody unless nobody else is interested

And if its a half decent player, somebody else somewhere will be interested, meaning we've no chance.

On the 29th August all decent players will be signed and settled, or pretty much fixed up, and there'll be a barrel to scrape somewhere.

We'll start scraping, liking a tramp rummaging through the bins, we'll start negotiating for a player who's only alternative will be non league and a part time job at B&Q, and we'll still only 50% convince him.

 

[JackSUFC]

Been really disappointed with Slav’s lack of transfer activity so far. Don’t know if he’s got his hands tied or what, but I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t have come here if he knew that was going to be the case.

The squad needed a rebuild with 6 new faces minimum.

People who expected the same group of players who’ve been awful for so long to suddenly come good were off their rocker.

To be four games into the season with one loan signing and what looks set to be a 35 year old on a free, is absolute negligence.

The board, management and recruitment team (whatever the fuck they’ve been doing all summer apart from stealing a wage) all need to take responsibility for this.

 

[Frank the tank]

Been the most disappointing aspect of our last two seasons for me the club just doesn't seem to know how to operate in the transfer market and I'm starting to soften my ire towards wilder for last season and direct it more at bettis who seems to be wanting to shop at waitrose using milk tokens

 

[JJBlade]

Maybe his hands are tied, which would mean he's been lied to.

If that's the case he won't be here in 9 days time

Some managers we've had in the past will work with shit and make do with it.

They want player A, but the club won't pay for him, so they go after player B, and in our case usually end up with player C or D.

Slav doesn't know what players C and D are, never having had to work with shyte before.

 

[JackSUFC]

Maybe his hands are tied, which would mean he's been lied to.

If that's the case he won't be here in 9 days time

Some managers we've had in the past will work with shit and make do with it.

They want player A, but the club won't pay for him, so they go after player B, and in our case usually end up with player C or D.

Slav doesn't know what players C and D are, never having had to work with shyte before.

I don’t think he was in charge of transfers at Watford and Fulham. Watford have been through about 100 odd ‘head coaches’ since their Italian owners took over, so don’t think it matters who’s in the dugout. At Fulham, I’m sure it was the owners signing players too, which is why Slav’s promotion team was broken up in the Premier League.

One fall out from Wilder’s exit was that he was apparently told he wasn’t going to have as much responsibility with recruitment.

Slav was probably sold on coming here with the same set-up he had at previous clubs. Difference is, those clubs got the job done.

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

 

[Blade56]

Transfer team………



Board members…….

 

[Blade56]

.

 

[Macfarlane21]

My concerns now are that we are only being linked with players on loan who very much vary in style. I don't think we are going to make any well thought out / critically analysed moves in the remaining days of the transfer window which will change the style/shape of our game in Slav's long term vision which so far looks very unclear

 

[Blacksea]

My concerns now are that we are only being linked with players on loan who very much vary in style. I don't think we are going to make any well thought out / critically analysed moves in the remaining days of the transfer window which will change the style/shape of our game in Slav's long term vision which so far looks very unclear

The thing with this is that the new manager search parameter was,among other things,expected to play 3/5/2,so there was nothing stopping the recruitment team signing up players to fit the formation even before the manager was appointed,so why they didn't and why the formation tinkering is happening,I have no idea.

 

[FMBlade1]

When we got it right:

Summer 2018: Sold Brooks early on in the window, and immediately brought in Egan when it was clear we needed defensive reinforcements. It was felt by some that we had overpaid slightly, but what did it matter? We had him in and settled the team, the rest as we said was history.

--

It's a slightly different point but with Brewster and Berge; I think they are good players but totally do not fit our style of play. Why were they signed then? What background and diligence did we make on them and who did it? What was the strategy behind their signings? We tried to shoehorn Berge into the team over Lundstram and that didn't really work. Brewster likes playing on the shoulder of the defender on through balls, Swansea's way of playing which we don't do as we don't have midfielders that play those sort of killer passes.

Was Wilder pressured by UnitedWorld (i.e. the owners) to bring Berge in? We know they wanted more foreign players.

It all seems a complete mess.

 

[Snowflake]

One of the supposed criticisms of of CW was that he didn’t give the board the 4/5 transfer options they required. Are you suggesting - “done no groundwork” - that they have now totally abandoned this idea and if so, based on what? No Viera, so you say there’s nothing else happening, but go onto say we’ll be signing dregs.

Then you pad, or try to, your nonsense to suggest l think paying more is a good thing. Again, based on nothing.

Maybe think before you rush to reply?

Without thinking I rush to reply that you are spot on.
Judge what has happened on 1st September or when the new signings have played a couple of matches.
Let’s also see how the current players react to new ones taking their places. We may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[FMBlade1]

Without thinking I rush to reply that you are spot on.
Judge what has happened on 1st September or when the new signings have played a couple of matches.
Let’s also see how the current players react to new ones taking their places. We may be pleasantly surprised.

Yes we will see and I hope I'm wrong. I suspect we'll end up with dregs, or we'll desperately overpay like Sunderland did for Will Griggs.

We need an overhaul, and there's less than a fortnight to go. The best out of contract players will have gone, we missed out on some obvious loans like Chong, who is there that we can sign now?

I don't think most of our current players will give a crap about new ones taking their places, they still get paid at the end of the week.

 

[FMBlade1]

Excellent comment from Addison that I'll copy here:

'The problem may be higher up than the recruitment team under Mitchell. Stories of SJ submitting lists weeks ago yet we are still at the enquiry stage for a number of players with 9 days to go.

Bettis and his side kick Shieber have to be called into question if we don't get players in. The latter being part of the McCabe structure that failed at the fax machine and didn't get Devante Cole over the line. Even then they may be being held back by the lawyer whose acting chairman and PA. Did we have to wait until Ramsdale was sold before there was any more movement? Are there constraints on how much we can pay out on even loans? Why have we wasted time on Diallo when its clear he wants to play in the EPL.

The fact we are now being linked with players we have no hope of getting such as Armstrong and Christie suggests a lack of co-ordination and possible interference from non football people. Oh for a Derek Dooley style Director of Football.

Who is actually making decisions, does the transfer committee still exist? The failed experiment of trying to spin plates across 5 clubs is coming home to roost and unless there is drastic action this week all the good work of the last 5 seasons at SUFC will begin to unravel.'

 

[247Blade]

We know very little on the strategy or what tools are being used. Given what the Prince said about wilder I find it hard to believe we don't have a list of options if one doesn't work out.

Our issue has been we seem to be in the market for loans. A top player for this league on loan needs to come from a high level. Those clubs hold all the cards, don't need to rush and see these as financial opportunities rather than just player development.

Personally I think this is a mistake, either get a short term strategy in with these loans or a long rebuild with permanent transfers. I don't see the point in hiring a manager who by all accounts "starts slow" and a manager who would need to change the squad so much to play his way yet sign players for a season. If the season is a dud why pay for the privilege of developing other clubs talent.

It is frustrating as hell but given the obvious lack of funds I can see why they would hold out for the maximum we could get for ramsdale. However if we were happy to keep him and still make these deals then a huge chunk of that should be invested in building a team not just fir this season.

Strategy ..a word not understood at Bramall Lane

 

[Yogi]

Excellent comment from Addison that I'll copy here:

'The problem may be higher up than the recruitment team under Mitchell. Stories of SJ submitting lists weeks ago yet we are still at the enquiry stage for a number of players with 9 days to go.

Bettis and his side kick Shieber have to be called into question if we don't get players in. The latter being part of the McCabe structure that failed at the fax machine and didn't get Devante Cole over the line. Even then they may be being held back by the lawyer whose acting chairman and PA. Did we have to wait until Ramsdale was sold before there was any more movement? Are there constraints on how much we can pay out on even loans? Why have we wasted time on Diallo when its clear he wants to play in the EPL.

The fact we are now being linked with players we have no hope of getting such as Armstrong and Christie suggests a lack of co-ordination and possible interference from non football people. Oh for a Derek Dooley style Director of Football.

Who is actually making decisions, does the transfer committee still exist? The failed experiment of trying to spin plates across 5 clubs is coming home to roost and unless there is drastic action this week all the good work of the last 5 seasons at SUFC will begin to unravel.'

There’s a decent point in there in that we’ve transitioned away from a very traditional set up where the manager has oversight on all footballing matters to a more modern approach where we almost have a head coach. The issue is it appears we’ve gone off half cock on that one because we haven’t brought in a director of football and I assume we’ve just expanded the roles of the existing executive team probably into areas they have little prior experience of. From the outside looking in it certainly appears there’s a lack of coherent leadership at the top of the club.

 

[BushBlade]

I don’t think he was in charge of transfers at Watford and Fulham. Watford have been through about 100 odd ‘head coaches’ since their Italian owners took over, so don’t think it matters who’s in the dugout. At Fulham, I’m sure it was the owners signing players too, which is why Slav’s promotion team was broken up in the Premier League.

One fall out from Wilder’s exit was that he was apparently told he wasn’t going to have as much responsibility with recruitment.

Slav was probably sold on coming here with the same set-up he had at previous clubs. Difference is, those clubs got the job done.

It’s Adkins/Clough all over again. Clough wanted to control everything, fell out with the board (which included PA and his entourage), left under a cloud, allegedly telling the board they didn’t know how to run a football club. Adkins comes in, his last success being at Southampton, who at the time had a very effective CEO or DoF (the bloke who sacked him and bought Poch in) and found we had no scouting network of our own to speak of or with the right contacts in the game to be able to move players on and a need to overhaul the squad. A very different scenario from when he’d last been successful. And coming off the back of a disappointing season at Reading.

Similarly Slav has shown at Fulham that if the recruitment isn’t right, as was the case when they got promoted, he can’t turn shit into sugar. He’s also come off the back of a season that I believe was considered a bit disappointing.

It seems that in both scenarios, our board believed that we had good players but a poor manager, when that was only partly true. It’s very rare that a manager can come into a struggling club and turn it round without bringing new players in. It’s quite naive to believe otherwise, particularly when you’ve been in a similar situation before and you’ve seen the outcome. It’s generally accepted by “football people” that if you sack a manager, it’s costly because you have to back the new manager. That seems to have been ignored.

The impression right now is, rather like under KM, the board is confusing doing things differently with doing things well. As with KM, our owner seems to be under the impression that he was more responsible for our success than he actually was and too hastily fell out with and got rid of the manager who brought the success, because he thought he knew better. He’s gone and bought three other clubs before he’s learned how to run the first one. Wilder leaving was the ideal opportunity to bring in a quality DoF, who knows the game, who has contacts. Like Brighton did when they nicked Dan Ashworth from the FA. If you don’t have money to splash on endless transfers then you need shrewd operators. The money in football is such that you get top quality people getting involved, people who’d be running or working for other major businesses. That’s what other clubs have and that’s what we’re competing against. Nepotism and cronyism won’t cut it in the modern football world. It didn’t work for KM and it won’t work for PA. And my biggest concern is that as the situation becomes more fraught, as he sees his club, his assets, decline on the pitch and decline in value, his decision making will become worse, it will become knee jerk until he’s spent the parachute money and we drop again, to a level where he doesn’t have to put money in, which is L1. Then United World gets sold to the first fucking chancer that is prepared to take it off his hands.

 

[BushBlade]

There’s a decent point in there in that we’ve transitioned away from a very traditional set up where the manager has oversight on all footballing matters to a more modern approach where we almost have a head coach. The issue is it appears we’ve gone off half cock on that one because we haven’t brought in a director of football and I assume we’ve just expanded the roles of the existing executive team probably into areas they have little prior experience of. From the outside looking in it certainly appears there’s a lack of coherent leadership at the top of the club.

It’s just taken me about a million words to say basically the same thing.