Worse start by a United Manager?

[scouseblade]

This is no means a thread to slag off Mickey Adams, just interested for the statos out there, as he has been incharge now for 5 games and we havent managed a win, is this the worst start by a manager or does someone else take that accolade?

 

[Ollessendro]

This is no means a thread to slag off Mickey Adams, just interested for the statos out there, as he has been incharge now for 5 games and we havent managed a win, is this the worst start by a manager or does someone else take that accolade?

It's 6 matches actually. I made the same point in another thread. It's a put Darren is not around, as he might have known. This is certainly the worst start of a manager for some time. Blackwell, Speed, Robson and Warnock picked up wins in their first 3 games. I'm sure Kendall, Spackman, Bruce and even Heath picked up wins quickly and certainly did not go 6 games.

However you dress it up it is not good enough. Dreadful start for Adams and I am sure he will be very disappointed.

 

[broomhillblade]

A few wins in the coming weeks and all will be forgotten....

 

[Selly]

It's 6 matches actually. I made the same point in another thread. It's a put Darren is not around, as he might have known. This is certainly the worst start of a manager for some time. Blackwell, Speed, Robson and Warnock picked up wins in their first 3 games. I'm sure Kendall, Spackman, Bruce and even Heath picked up wins quickly and certainly did not go 6 games.

However you dress it up it is not good enough. Dreadful start for Adams and I am sure he will be very disappointed.

Kendalls first league win came in his 7th league match.

Ipswich 1-1 Sheff Utd 16-12-1995
Stoke 2-2 Sheff Utd 23-12-1995
Sheff Utd 1-1 Birmingham 26-12-1995
Tranmere 1-1 Sheff Utd 13-01-1996
Sheff Utd 1-1 Watford 20-01-1996
Luton 1-0 Sheff Utd 31-01-1996
Sheff Utd 2-1 Oldham 03-02-1996

However sandwiched in between all those games were the FA cup games against Arsenal and Villa

English FA Cup Arsenal 1-1 Sheff Utd 06-01-1996
English FA Cup Sheff Utd 1-0 Arsenal 17-01-1996
English FA Cup Sheff Utd 0-1 Aston Villa 28-01-1996

Spackmans first win was in his first game, 2-0 against Sunderland

Heaths first win was in his 5th league game

Portsmouth 2-0 Sheff Utd 07-08-1999
Sheff Utd 1-1 Walsall 14-08-1999
Man City 6-0 Sheff Utd 21-08-1999
Sheff Utd 2-2 Ipswich 28-08-1999
Tranmere 1-3 Sheff Utd 30-08-1999

However again, we had cup wins agains Shrewsbury in between.

Steve Bruce also won his first game (2-1 against Swindon)

Sheff Utd 3-0 Shrewsbury 10-08-1999
Shrewsbury 0-3 Sheff Utd 24-08-1999

 

[raul]

The living embodiment of all that is evil outside of Zimbabwe managed a win last night......

 

[Grecian2000]

Donny or Jewell?

 

[broomhillblade]

The living embodiment of all that is evil outside of Zimbabwe managed a win last night......

Peterborough?

 

[SwissBlade]

Its a bad run agreed and I don't know if its the worst start ever, I don't really have anything more to contribute to this thread, but Ollie has responded so I thought I would too.

In Micky we trust!

 

[super_pig]

In Micky we trust!
all others pay cash

 

[Ollessendro]

Kendalls first league win came in his 7th league match.

Ipswich 1-1 Sheff Utd 16-12-1995
Stoke 2-2 Sheff Utd 23-12-1995
Sheff Utd 1-1 Birmingham 26-12-1995
Tranmere 1-1 Sheff Utd 13-01-1996
Sheff Utd 1-1 Watford 20-01-1996
Luton 1-0 Sheff Utd 31-01-1996
Sheff Utd 2-1 Oldham 03-02-1996

However sandwiched in between all those games were the FA cup games against Arsenal and Villa

English FA Cup Arsenal 1-1 Sheff Utd 06-01-1996
English FA Cup Sheff Utd 1-0 Arsenal 17-01-1996
English FA Cup Sheff Utd 0-1 Aston Villa 28-01-1996

Spackmans first win was in his first game, 2-0 against Sunderland

Heaths first win was in his 5th league game

Portsmouth 2-0 Sheff Utd 07-08-1999
Sheff Utd 1-1 Walsall 14-08-1999
Man City 6-0 Sheff Utd 21-08-1999
Sheff Utd 2-2 Ipswich 28-08-1999
Tranmere 1-3 Sheff Utd 30-08-1999

However again, we had cup wins agains Shrewsbury in between.

Steve Bruce also won his first game (2-1 against Swindon)

Sheff Utd 3-0 Shrewsbury 10-08-1999
Shrewsbury 0-3 Sheff Utd 24-08-1999

Good work Selly Oak. Living up to your avatar I see

Kendalls first win was against Arsenal then. I think it is unfair to judge him solely on the league record. Was that game (a 1-0 win) against Arsenal a replay? I seem to remember it being on a week night.

So it seems that Adams has had the worst start as a United manager for more than 25 years.

 

[Selly]

Kendalls first win was against Arsenal then. I think it is unfair to judge him solely on the league record. Was that game (a 1-0 win) against Arsenal a replay? I seem to remember it being on a week night.

Yes his first win was against Arsenal (in his 6th game overall), yes it was a replay, and yes it was a night match. Carl Veart scored the winner in a 3-sided BDTBL.

So it seems that Adams has had the worst start as a United manager for more than 25 years.

Depends on the criteria. In terms of games before a win, possibly, in terms of points gained, not yet (if we win at Ipswich we'll have 5 points from 6 games, the same as kendall managed)

First 6 game Points totals - League only

Bassett       LLWWLL -  6 points - relegated
Kendall       DDDDDL -  5 points - survived comfortably, play off final next year 
Spackman      WDWDWW - 14 points - resigned, play off semi
Bruce         WLLDWL -  7 points - midtable mediocrity
Heath         LDLDWW -  8 points - in severe danger
Warnock       WWWWDL - 13 points - survived comfortably
Robson        DLWLWD -  7 points - in danger
Blackwell     DLDWWW - 10 points - survived comfortably, play off final next year
Speed         LWWLWL -  9 points - in danger
Adams         LDDLL? -  2 points - ?????????????????

 

[JohnDenver]

Yes his first win was against Arsenal (in his 6th game overall), yes it was a replay, and yes it was a night match. Carl Veart scored the winner in a 3-sided BDTBL.

And what performance it was too. We outfootballed Arsenal comprehensively.

I'll just say that again. WE outfootballed Arsenal comprehensively.

 

[Ollessendro]

First 6 game Points totals - League only

Bassett       LLWWLL -  6 points - relegated
Kendall       DDDDDL -  5 points - survived comfortably, play off final next year 
Spackman      WDWDWW - 14 points - resigned, play off semi
Bruce         WLLDWL -  7 points - midtable mediocrity
Heath         LDLDWW -  8 points - in severe danger
Warnock       WWWWDL - 13 points - survived comfortably
Robson        DLWLWD -  7 points - in danger
Blackwell     DLDWWW - 10 points - survived comfortably, play off final next year
Speed         LWWLWL -  9 points - in danger
Adams         LDDLL? -  2 points - ?????????????????

Good work SO. Interesting stuff. Let's hope we win at Ipswich and prove my assuption wrong

And what performance it was too. We outfootballed Arsenal comprehensively.

I'll just say that again. WE outfootballed Arsenal comprehensively.

Remember it well JD. Cold January night warmed up by a fantastic Blades performance. It was a good crowd that night (nigh on 30k and possibly a sell out) and we went mental when Veart scored. We outclassed Arsenal and should have won by more. Veart missed a sitter at the Bramall Lane end (a brilliant save by Seaman - but he should have buried it) that would have sealed it and made it emphatic. Great night.

 

[scouseblade]

Thanks guys. As i said its not to say adams is garbage but interested to know the starts. Point of order looking at the squad now would the other managers have struggled?

 

[Rustyblade]

Given the squad we have now, can you name any manager who wouldn't?

 

[raul]

Good work. SO Interesting stuff.

Looks a bit sarky to me Selly.

 

[SwissBlade]

Given the squad we have now, can you name any manager who wouldn't?

Blackwell?

 

[travellingblade]

Given the squad we have now, can you name any manager who wouldn't?

Totally agree, even if Swiss (whom I respect highly) doesn't agree.

 

[Rattly Noise]

Blackwell?

No, his win ratio was actually quite good.

 

[Selly]

Good work SO. Interesting stuff. Let's hope we win at Ipswich and prove my assuption wrong



Remember it well JD. Cold January night warmed up by a fantastic Blades performance. It was a good crowd that night (nigh on 30k and possibly a sell out) and we went mental when Veart scored. We outclassed Arsenal and should have won by more. Veart missed a sitter at the Bramall Lane end (a brilliant save by Seaman - but he should have buried it) that would have sealed it and made it emphatic. Great night.

There were nowhere near 30k there.

As I said, 3-sided BDTBL. 22k max.

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

Looks a bit sarky to me Selly.

Not so much sarky, as patronising. I feel like I've just been given a pat on the head.

It could only have been worse if he had called me "sport" or "junior".

 

[oldblade]

It's 6 matches actually. I made the same point in another thread. It's a put Darren is not around, as he might have known. This is certainly the worst start of a manager for some time. Blackwell, Speed, Robson and Warnock picked up wins in their first 3 games. I'm sure Kendall, Spackman, Bruce and even Heath picked up wins quickly and certainly did not go 6 games.

However you dress it up it is not good enough. Dreadful start for Adams and I am sure he will be very disappointed.

Under Kendall our first league win came at the seventh time of asking. We drew the first 5 games and lost the 6th. But during that time we did knock Arsenal out of the FA cup.

Also I think our team was stronger then than it is now, and Kendall was able to sign far better players than Adams has been able to do.

 

[GlosBlade]

And this is going to be our worst season for home defeats for a long long time. 8 defeats already...the last time I can think of that we were so bad was 1987 and our home record that season ended up being W8 D6 L8....we are going to struggle to match that this season. Previous worse before that was 1976 - 10 home defeats. Needless to say we were relegated on both occasions.

 

[Ollessendro]

There were nowhere near 30k there.

As I said, 3-sided BDTBL. 22k max.

Not so much sarky, as patronising. I feel like I've just been given a pat on the head.

It could only have been worse if he had called me "sport" or "junior".

Well SO, it seems you are right again. You do enjoy pedantically pointing out my poor memory of the finer details don't you sonny jim? Indeed it was a 3 sided Bramall Lane and although I was right in that the game was a sell out, the attendance was 22,225.

Under Kendall our first league win came at the seventh time of asking. We drew the first 5 games and lost the 6th. But during that time we did knock Arsenal out of the FA cup.

Also I think our team was stronger then than it is now, and Kendall was able to sign far better players than Adams has been able to do.

Yes indeed. Kendall did inherit a better team. I am disappointed with Adams start, but I am realistic. He has inherited a poor team and has actually been unlucky not to pick up a win. I am pleased by some aspects of his start (he talks sense, the team are playing better and there is more pride and passion) but I am concerned with our poor form.

If we win at Ipswich tomorrow then all with be forgiven and mentions of the worst start etc will be immediately forgotten.

 

[Selly]

Well SO, it seems you are right again. You do enjoy pedantically pointing out my poor memory of the finer details don't you sonny jim? Indeed it was a 3 sided Bramall Lane and although I was right in that the game was a sell out, the attendance was 22,225.

Someone has to since Darren left... and don`t call me sonny jim you young whippersnapper.

And I certainly hadn`t been checking the game out on Soccerbase earlier that day and therefore knew the attendance couldn`t have been 30k...

---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------

If we win at Ipswich tomorrow then all with be forgiven and mentions of the worst start etc will be immediately forgotten.

Not by me, I'll just extend my analysis to the first 10 games. Always worth finding these things out!!!

 

[Selly]

OK, so I did some more analysis. It is now (unsurprisingly) the worst start to a baldes managers career in the last 30 years, on the basis of PPG (assuming 3 points for a win).

I like graphs, so I did a graph, showing the PPG of all managers since Basset and how there PPG has changed over their first 23 league matches (which is how many Adams will reach by the end of the season).

I also did a bit of research into whether or not the PPG after 6 games was indicative of the PPG after 23 games.

I didn`t really find a like, but ominously only 3 of our previous 10 manager have managed to improve on their 6 game PPG after 23 games.

In the below table an * indicates where the manager did not manage us for 23 games, in these cases I have taken their overall PPG.

 

[raul]

It doesn't have a name, please correct this oversight.

 

[Selly]

Given that scouse started this off we'll have to call it the scouse-o-meter

Not, it should be pointed out, a measure of how likely you are to have your car stereo nicked in a specific area.

 

[scouseblade]

Tut tut tut SelbyOakBlade! Im only an adopted scouser!

 

[metty]

Tut tut tut SelbyOakBlade! Im only an adopted scouser!

You only take hubcaps then

 

[Selly]

Tut tut tut SelbyOakBlade! Im only an adopted scouser!

Didn`t say you weren`t, but anything called the scouse-o-meter, sounds like it need to be used to measure the levels of scouse-ness.

You only take hubcaps then

Ba-dum tschhhh!