Revolution
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a striker who scored 15 goals is less valuable than one who scored zero goals? Really? Why?
Sheffield United 1996 - 2020 - A Statistical Journey
- Thread starter Carlton Blade
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a striker who scored 15 goals is less valuable than one who scored zero goals? Really? Why?
Stannington Blade
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Instructions for that team. Keep it down the left, give it to Tonge! The crossing options of Doyle and Kozzy might frustrate Sharp just a tad
Silent Blade
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He brings more to the team that Andy Gray ever did. McGoldrick is strong, defends from the front, uses his intelligence to run into areas leaving space for his teammates to have a scoring chance. We won more games with him in the side than we did with Gray in the side. Very much a player's player. No surprise he won last season's player of the year. Gray was never a contender for our player of the season in his two seasons for us. Gray doesnt really defend from the front so our opposing team have more time to build up an attack from the back. He was a a goal hanger and lacked strength. Good at taking penalties and taking chances in the box, that is just about it.
We were 2 down at Chelsea last August, McGoldrick came on as sub and that was the key reason why we played so well in the 2nd half, no way Gray would have the same impact if he had come on in a game like this. McGoldrick is still playing well, brings a lot to the team and very unlucky not to have scored a PL goal yet.
Trigger Blade
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That’s a fantastic piece of work Carlton Blade, the lockdown and childminding hasn’t entirely been in vain 
There are loads of really interesting stats to find in there, but the one that surprises me most is that if we’ve had 412 players in 24 seasons, that means an average of 17 debuts per season. Well, perhaps not quite as some players would have been there before 1996, but nevertheless a colossal number.
There are loads of really interesting stats to find in there, but the one that surprises me most is that if we’ve had 412 players in 24 seasons, that means an average of 17 debuts per season. Well, perhaps not quite as some players would have been there before 1996, but nevertheless a colossal number.
Revolution
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Andy Gray in 2004-5 in the league:
41 starts, 2 sub appearances. United won 17 of those games.
15 goals. Only one penalty.
he scored in one goal victories 8 times. He scored in a draw once. Once in a 2-0 win, and two doubles in 4-0 wins.
Only once did he score in a defeat, on the last day of the season.
the next two highest scorers (Shaw and A Quinn) got 14 between them.
that’s a valuable forward.
McGoldrick this season in the league:
16 starts, 5 sub appearances, no goals. We’ve won seven of those games.
He’s historically bad in terms of shots without scoring and expected goals.
sure, he’s had 3 assists, and yes, he’s done well given he doesn’t score at all, but the suggestion that he can be more valuable than someone who scored 15 goals, almost all of them in winning causes, baffles me, although I do realise that you’ve never really seen the importance of goals (which are, of course, how you win a game)
Carlton Blade
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Debuts per season (96/97 is the first year of the data so every player on there is listed as that being a debut - obviously that isn't the case for all of them)That’s a fantastic piece of work Carlton Blade, the lockdown and childminding hasn’t entirely been in vain
There are loads of really interesting stats to find in there, but the one that surprises me most is that if we’ve had 412 players in 24 seasons, that means an average of 17 debuts per season. Well, perhaps not quite as some players would have been there before 1996, but nevertheless a colossal number.
| Year | Debuts |
| 1996/97 | 30 |
| 1997/98 | 21 |
| 1998/99 | 10 |
| 1999/00 | 18 |
| 2000/01 | 22 |
| 2001/02 | 11 |
| 2002/03 | 18 |
| 2003/04 | 21 |
| 2004/05 | 17 |
| 2005/06 | 22 |
| 2006/07 | 11 |
| 2007/08 | 11 |
| 2008/09 | 15 |
| 2009/10 | 23 |
| 2010/11 | 25 |
| 2011/12 | 12 |
| 2012/13 | 16 |
| 2013/14 | 22 |
| 2014/15 | 20 |
| 2015/16 | 6 |
| 2016/17 | 23 |
| 2017/18 | 15 |
| 2018/19 | 11 |
| 2019/20 | 12 |
Carlton Blade
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League debuts - Same rules apply for 96/97That’s a fantastic piece of work Carlton Blade, the lockdown and childminding hasn’t entirely been in vain
There are loads of really interesting stats to find in there, but the one that surprises me most is that if we’ve had 412 players in 24 seasons, that means an average of 17 debuts per season. Well, perhaps not quite as some players would have been there before 1996, but nevertheless a colossal number.
| Season | League Debuts |
| 1996/97 | 30 |
| 1997/98 | 21 |
| 1998/99 | 10 |
| 1999/00 | 18 |
| 2000/01 | 22 |
| 2001/02 | 11 |
| 2002/03 | 18 |
| 2003/04 | 19 |
| 2004/05 | 18 |
| 2005/06 | 13 |
| 2006/07 | 12 |
| 2007/08 | 11 |
| 2008/09 | 13 |
| 2009/10 | 23 |
| 2010/11 | 23 |
| 2011/12 | 12 |
| 2012/13 | 17 |
| 2013/14 | 22 |
| 2014/15 | 18 |
| 2015/16 | 7 |
| 2016/17 | 18 |
| 2017/18 | 15 |
| 2018/19 | 10 |
| 2019/20 | 8 |
Revolution
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the actual number of league debuts in 1996-7 was 11.
Trigger Blade
Cheerful twaddle
So, the only season until this one, where debuts were in single figures, was Nigel Adkins in 2015/16, which may in itself indicate a problem ie the players he inherited weren’t very good and he didn’t do much to change that.
LoughboroBlade
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Gray, on the basis we had no striker options, was probably more valuable to the 04/05 team than McGoldrick is to our current team, but that’s more down to the good alternative options we have up front in the current squad. In any other comparison of value to any team of current McGoldrick and “peak” Andy Gray there’s not really a comparison, particularly when only one of those is being compared against Premier League defenders.
A simple comparison of goals doesn’t accurately tell the full story – nor does assists really, given that won’t pick up the impact a player has in helping create the move prior to it getting to the direct assister.
Carlton Blade
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Silent Blade
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McGoldrick scored 15 goals last season in less starts (36 + 9) than Gray did in 2004-05! Also we won a lot more with McGoldrick last season than we did with Gray in 2004-05!
Gray would hardly have played for us if we were playing in the Premier League! Had a look at his PL stats. He played for L**ds (22 games), Forest (8 games), Sunderland (21 games) so that is 51 Premier League he has played and he has scored just only ONE goal (yes, just one in the PL) so you bringing in McGoldrick's stats for this season is pointless because a) the season hasnt finished and b) it took Gray 31 PL games before he eventually scored a PL goal and never did it again in his next 20 PL games
Beans
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Think this says a lot about me but this is by far my favourite table - some names there that I used to read in the programme and wonder if they were our next superstar!
Top work Carlton Blade . It would have taken me a very, very long time to guess that Jose Baxter cracked our top 10 goalscorers during this period.
Revolution
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The question was - who was more valuable to his team, Gray in 2004-5 or McGoldrick this season?
Much of what you say above is true, but none of it has any relevance to that question.
LoughboroBlade
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When we signed Stead for 750k (?) a Sunderland mate of mine said that this was revenge for us somehow getting £1.1m off them for Gray. Both deals were good bits of business for us. The lack of goals for Sunderland in 05/06 from both players was a big factor in their relegation.
Carlton Blade
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Harry's Game
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if Pinchy is still alive and kicking this would just about finish him off.
Revolution
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Andy Gray trivia;
Andy Gray scored the first football league goal in 2005-6. He also scored the first Premier League goal in the same season.
Andy Gray Played 47 league games in 2003-4.
Zipwire
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I rated Andy Gray. As a goal scorer he was second to none.
diode_blade
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That's all very good work Carlton Blade, top notch, but you could have presented all that as a daily briefing with graphs....not happy......
Excellent stuff, well done, must have taken you flipping ages.
Excellent stuff, well done, must have taken you flipping ages.
Carlton Blade
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I'd love to say I slaved over it. But all in all to create the initial data set took about an hour. Then you just manipulate it to tell you what you want.That's all very good work Carlton Blade, top notch, but you could have presented all that as a daily briefing with graphs....not happy......
Excellent stuff, well done, must have taken you flipping ages.
I nearly bored myself to sleep writing that
Carlton Blade
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Season Leaders
| Year | Players Used | Most Appearances | Appearances | Most Goals | Goals |
| 1996/97 | 30 | Don Hutchison (M), Petr Kachouro (F) | 48 | Andy Walker (F) | 15 |
| 1997/98 | 41 | Nicky Marker (D) | 56 | Brian Deane (F), Dean Saunders (F), Jan-Aage Fjortoft (F) | 12 |
| 1998/99 | 34 | Wayne Quinn (D) | 52 | Marcelo (F) | 20 |
| 1999/00 | 31 | Simon Tracey (G) | 52 | Marcus Bent (F) | 16 |
| 2000/01 | 38 | Shaun Murphy (D) | 52 | Marcus Bent (F), Paul Devlin (M), David Kelly (F) | 8 |
| 2001/02 | 33 | Peter Ndlovu (F) | 49 | Carl Asaba (F), Michael Brown (M) | 7 |
| 2002/03 | 36 | Paddy Kenny (G) | 59 | Michael Brown (M) | 22 |
| 2003/04 | 36 | Michael Tonge (M) | 51 | Jack Lester (F) | 15 |
| 2004/05 | 34 | Phil Jagielka (D), Leigh Bromby (D) | 54 | Andy Gray (F) | 18 |
| 2005/06 | 42 | Phil Jagielka (D) | 47 | Neil Shipperley (F) | 11 |
| 2006/07 | 36 | Phil Jagielka (D) | 38 | Rob Hulse (F) | 8 |
| 2007/08 | 32 | Michael Tonge (M) | 52 | James Beattie (F) | 22 |
| 2008/09 | 36 | Kyle Naughton (D), Paddy Kenny (G), Chris Morgan (D), Stephen Quinn (M) | 50 | James Beattie (F) | 12 |
| 2009/10 | 39 | Stephen Quinn (M) | 48 | Richard Cresswell (F) | 14 |
| 2010/11 | 42 | Steve Simonsen (G) | 47 | Ched Evans (F) | 9 |
| 2011/12 | 34 | Harry Maguire (D) | 56 | Ched Evans (F) | 35 |
| 2012/13 | 34 | Harry Maguire (D) | 53 | Nick Blackman (F) | 14 |
| 2013/14 | 39 | Neill Collins (D) | 55 | Chris Porter (F) | 11 |
| 2014/15 | 38 | Jamie Murphy (M) | 58 | Jose Baxter (F), Mark McNulty (F) | 13 |
| 2015/16 | 37 | Chris Basham (D) | 49 | Billy Sharp (F) | 21 |
| 2016/17 | 37 | Jack O'Connell (D) | 50 | Billy Sharp (F) | 30 |
| 2017/18 | 33 | Chris Basham (D) | 50 | Leon Clarke (F) | 19 |
| 2018/19 | 28 | John Fleck (M), Enda Stevens (D), Dean Henderson (G) | 46 | Billy Sharp (F) | 24 |
| 2019/20 | 29 | Chris Basham (D) | 31 | Lys Mousset (F), John Fleck (M) | 5 |
PeterNdlovu081
COCK PISS PARTRIDGE
Carlton Blade
Revolution
Where does Monty rank in the all time appearances list?
Does he crack the top ten?
Revolution
Where does Monty rank in the all time appearances list?
Does he crack the top ten?
Carlton Blade
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13th
PeterNdlovu081
COCK PISS PARTRIDGE
Carlton Blade
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The only outfield player in the top 30 who played his first game post 1976
mattbianco1
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I can't remember Marcelo being so prolific.
Carlton Blade
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20 goals in 41 appearances (32 starts, 9 sub). I've got to be honest, I didn't believe that either
Carlton Blade
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List of Sheffield United F.C. players - Wikipedia
There are some slight errors in here but the list is pretty much correct
Carlton Blade
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| Comp | Date | Home | Score | Away | Goals |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 29Aug 1998 | Bolton | 2 - 2 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 05Sep 1998 | Huddersfield | 1 - 0 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Tu 08Sep 1998 | Sheff Utd | 3 - 2 | Grimsby | |
| ENGLISH LEAGUE CUP | Tu 15Sep 1998 | Sheff Utd | 2 - 1 | Grimsby | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 19Sep 1998 | Sheff Utd | 2 - 1 | Norwich | 2 |
| ENGLISH LEAGUE CUP | Tu 22Sep 1998 | Grimsby | 2 - 0 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Su 27Sep 1998 | Crystal Palace | 1 - 0 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Tu 29Sep 1998 | Watford | 1 - 1 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 03Oct 1998 | Sheff Utd | 2 - 1 | Portsmouth | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Tu 20Oct 1998 | Sheff Utd | 1 - 1 | Stockport | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 24Oct 1998 | Oxford | 0 - 2 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 07Nov 1998 | Sheff Utd | 2 - 2 | Tranmere | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Tu 10Nov 1998 | Wolves | 2 - 1 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 28Nov 1998 | Sheff Utd | 0 - 4 | Sunderland | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 05Dec 1998 | Bristol C | 2 - 0 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Fr 11Dec 1998 | Bury | 3 - 3 | Sheff Utd | 2 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Su 20Dec 1998 | Sheff Utd | 1 - 2 | Ipswich | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 26Dec 1998 | Birmingham | 1 - 0 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Mo 28Dec 1998 | Sheff Utd | 2 - 1 | Huddersfield | |
| FA CUP | Sa 02Jan 1999 | Sheff Utd | 1 - 1 | Notts Co | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 16Jan 1999 | Sheff Utd | 1 - 2 | Bolton | |
| FA CUP | Sa 23Jan 1999 | Notts Co | 3 - 4 | Sheff Utd | 2 |
| FA CUP | We 27Jan 1999 | Sheff Utd | 4 - 1 | Cardiff | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 30Jan 1999 | Crewe | 1 - 2 | Sheff Utd | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 06Feb 1999 | Sheff Utd | 3 - 0 | West Brom | 2 |
| FA CUP | Sa 13Feb 1999 | Arsenal | 2 - 1 | Sheff Utd | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Fr 19Feb 1999 | Sheff Utd | 2 - 2 | Bradford | 1 |
| FA CUP | Tu 23Feb 1999 | Arsenal | 2 - 1 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 27Feb 1999 | Norwich | 1 - 1 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Tu 02Mar 1999 | Sheff Utd | 1 - 1 | Crystal Palace | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 06Mar 1999 | Sheff Utd | 3 - 0 | Watford | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Tu 09Mar 1999 | Portsmouth | 1 - 0 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 20Mar 1999 | Sheff Utd | 3 - 0 | Port Vale | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Fr 26Mar 1999 | Sheff Utd | 1 - 2 | Oxford | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 03Apr 1999 | Barnsley | 2 - 1 | Sheff Utd | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Mo 05Apr 1999 | Sheff Utd | 1 - 1 | Wolves | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 10Apr 1999 | Stockport | 1 - 0 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 17Apr 1999 | Sheff Utd | 2 - 0 | QPR | 2 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Tu 20Apr 1999 | Grimsby | 1 - 2 | Sheff Utd | |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Sa 01May 1999 | Sheff Utd | 3 - 1 | Bristol C | 1 |
| FOOTBALL LEAGUE DIV 1 | Su 09May 1999 | Ipswich | 4 - 1 | Sheff Utd | |
| Appearances:41Totals: | 20 |
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