Stadium and facilities redevelopment post KMC

[8lade]

I suspect the kop will eventually become a safety hazard, even when I was a kid it looked like it was propped up with a bit of hardcore and some old Bibles, it's been patched since then but one day it will have to be sorted properly.

 

[madeinsheffield]

They would be better removing the old Kop that still sits underneath, yes there are hunderds of tonnes but that way the club could earn money from offices, function rooms, commercial spaces etc all year rather than 20-30 times a year that could occupy the space, chance of a limetime to make the ground what it should be. Even taking out the pillars and enclosing the back would cost millions, do it properly even if we have to wait a few years

 

[Selly]

As much as I'd love the kop to be extended and significantly improved, I agree that in the short term the SS would be the most viable option. If we put a 5k second tier, with lots of corporate hospitality etc, I'm sure that we would achieve the ROI. Of course that all depends on staying in the prem, but let's face it, we are a team pushing for top 6. Let's think positive!

Just imagine the pigs I'm creaming myself at the thought of how they would react - some of them would literally not be able to take it! Also a SS extension would give us room for growth with potential new fans and a place to put kop season ticket holders when/if we decide to completely re-do the kop.

The other part of this is we need to position the club (and the ground) as the obvious option in the event of another WC bid.

At the moment it's too easy to point at a theoretical 40k capacity at the Sty and make the argument to hold games there. Build the SS and then include the Kop redevelopment as part of the WC bid.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I’ve not sat on the kop for years - I’d rather pay more for better comfort and fortunately that’s not a problem for me. Appreciate we need to retain a cheaper area but the kop truly is awful. Pillars, dreadful amenities and from the outside it looks embarrassing.

The McCabe design removes the pillar...no more restricted views and massively improves/ modernises the amenities. it will look fantastic from the outside.
It won’t cost that much (relative to other designs)...so can keep the prices the same...lowest prices in the ground
and as there will be no capacity reduction down to 21K....how do you chose which fans recieve a 2 year ban from the ground?
or does everyone take turns where they miss 33% of home matches....a big stadium reduction would create a massive uproar...we could actually lose fans.
The Kop bolt on design means most of the Kop would continue being used.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Apart from Everton (I think - and they are planning to move to a new ground) is there another club in the Prem that still has a stand with poles propping it up?

 

[Freddy Dunning-Kruger]

Apart from Everton (I think - and they are planning to move to a new ground) is there another club in the Prem that still has a stand with poles propping it up?

Turf Moor has some, I think.

 

[Scarebus]

Apart from Everton (I think - and they are planning to move to a new ground) is there another club in the Prem that still has a stand with poles propping it up?

Selhurst park

 

[Booker4]

I's have thought the best option re the tight space for seating, which I know all to well at 6.2ft tall, is to make the whole Kop safe standing. Right now that's not possible because the government seems intent on just kicking the can down the road on this, although they've said its something they're looking at. It seems we'll not be doing anything to the stadium for this year so maybe this time next season we'll be looking at extending the Kop and potentially converting the Kop to safe standing which by then may have government approval.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Selhurst park

Palace is a good shout and they must have one of the more ramshackle grounds relative to size of club and time spent in the Prem.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

a big stadium reduction would create a massive uproar...we could actually lose fans.

I’m sure there would be uproar, and a lot of people would be unhappy. I really doubt though that we would lose any significant number of fans. In fact the better seating area would probably be enough in itself to attract in more.

In the long run it would be worth the disruption of a season to do.

Not the same situation I realise, but I walked past Craven Cottage last month – hadn’t realised they had demolished the Riverside Stand there and have started what’s to be a two year development.

Riverside Development

A spectacular new riverside which transforms our iconic home

www.fulhamfc.com

 

[Liaminho9]

Selhurst park

Palace is a good shout and they must have one of the more ramshackle grounds relative to size of club and time spent in the Prem.

That created a hilarious exchange a few years back:

 

[Working Class Hero]

The Kop needs improved indoor facilities and a new roof with no pillars, that's it. And the existing plans achieve that perfectly fine. Anyone wanting the existing stand replacing is living in cloud cuckoo land! What's the point of rebuilding it to accommodate less people!?

The seats would be more expensive, the fans further apart and therefore the atmosphere would become worse. The ground wouldn't fit us all in while the work was ongoing. It wouldn't look any better as a stand either. The people who sit on the kop now are obviously happy to pay a cheaper price and have a shallower view anyway. It's just pointless.

 

[Booker4]

The Kop needs improved indoor facilities and a new roof with no pillars, that's it. And the existing plans achieve that perfectly fine. Anyone wanting the existing stand replacing is living in cloud cuckoo land! What's the point of rebuilding it to accommodate less people!?

The seats would be more expensive, the fans further apart and therefore the atmosphere would become worse. The ground wouldn't fit us all in while the work was ongoing. It wouldn't look any better as a stand either. The people who sit on the kop now are obviously happy to pay a cheaper price and have a shallower view anyway. It's just pointless.

It won't be re-built I'm sure. But it needs extending and hopefully safe standing to at least part of the Kop, although I'd like to see it all safe standing.

 

[JayGreen17]

The entire kop needs taking down and building again - but properly this time. It looks like a L1 kop.

Like the Kop at the new spurs ground.

 

[Working Class Hero]

It won't be re-built I'm sure. But it needs extending and hopefully safe standing to at least part of the Kop, although I'd like to see it all safe standing.

Yeah an extension is already part of the plans and presumably rail seats would be a realistic addition, the way things are going. None of these things require the current stand to be rebuilt though, I don't understand the clamour for it.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I's have thought the best option re the tight space for seating, which I know all to well at 6.2ft tall, is to make the whole Kop safe standing. Right now that's not possible because the government seems intent on just kicking the can down the road on this, although they've said its something they're looking at. It seems we'll not be doing anything to the stadium for this year so maybe this time next season we'll be looking at extending the Kop and potentially converting the Kop to safe standing which by then may have government approval.

The government have asked for a thorough independent study regards safe standing, it was started last year and is due to be given to the government soon.....the results were leaked this week....that they’ve acquired plenty of evidence to prove that “safe standing“ is safer than the current seats.

Therefore it looks certain that safe standing will soon be approved by the governement. Initially expect the government to restrict it to limited numbers/ small areas.
Man Utd have already announced they hope to introduce a small safe standing area for next season.

Once small safe standing areas are shown to be a success...then in 3 or 4 years this is likely to grow to much bigger areas....maybe even whole stands.
Then after a few more years clubs will be asking if they can increase the 1 to 1 ratio to fit in more fans increasing capacity like they do in Germany.
However bear in mind that in many stadia the concourse, amenities and toilets are designed for a maximum number.
So in some stands it’s impossible to increase capacity, even with rail seating.

 

[Worksop II]

how do you chose which fans recieve a 2 year ban from the ground?

Well, the fuckers who have the loyalty points can get to the away games no problem, so they get the cut first

Then we all get to see the same amount of games for those seasons ......


Tin Hat On

 

[YES Blade]

The McCabe design removes the pillar...no more restricted views and massively improves/ modernises the amenities. it will look fantastic from the outside.
It won’t cost that much (relative to other designs)...so can keep the prices the same...lowest prices in the ground
and as there will be no capacity reduction down to 21K....how do you chose which fans recieve a 2 year ban from the ground?
or does everyone take turns where they miss 33% of home matches....a big stadium reduction would create a massive uproar...we could actually lose fans.
The Kop bolt on design means most of the Kop would continue being used.

Just because McCabe’s plan is the simplest and easiest to build doesn’t make it the best long term plan for the club.

I’m sure Spurs could’ve built a new stand etc. instead of a brand new stadium and avoided the move to Wembley. But now it’s finished I’m sure we can all agree that a couple of seasons being inconvenienced was worth it.

 

[penthouseblade]

‘Been said before.....there’s no way any business pays out money to lower their income.
A rebuilt steeper Kop with more leg room would mean a lower capacity......also think it’s essential we keep a cheap/affordable part of ground.
Fans have a choice...of they want better comfort then you need to pay slightly extra.

The priority for the Kop is to remove the pillars....so there’s no resorted view and put the concourse under cover enclosed with better/ bigger toilets and bars.
This can be done relatively cheaply and gives fans 90% if what they want....plus prices would remain lower on the Kop.

I asked an architect about that recently (she’s doing a job for me) turns out she actually worked on football stadium a few years ago. Apparently a steeper stand would not mean lower capacity....don’t ask me how!

 

[Linz]

I think the thing about rebuilding the Kop is that the footprint as it stands includes a lot of wasted space in the mound of crap it's built on. If we were going to do it, doing it properly would be worth it in the long run for the commercial areas it could open up.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

The government have asked for a thorough independent study regards safe standing, it was started last year and is due to be given to the government soon.....the results were leaked this week....that they’ve acquired plenty of evidence to prove that “safe standing“ is safer than the current seats.

The interim report was out last week:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51413557

As mentioned in the Other Football section, Spurs informed STHs last week that they expect their South Stand will move from being safe standing ready to actually safe standing next season. Man United a looking at trialling it. We would be absolutely mad to not work this into stadium redevelopment plans, and encouragingly it is on the club’s radar. As anxious as I am to sort the Kop out I’d happily delay that if it meant we could have safe standing there. It’s worth getting right, and building something fit for purpose for the long term rather than another cheapo 1992 esque job.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I asked an architect about that recently (she’s doing a job for me) turns out she actually worked on football stadium a few years ago. Apparently a steeper stand would not mean lower capacity....don’t ask me how!

It’s only possible if you make the height of the Kop stand taller but I suspect they’d want to keep the height of the Kop similar to the John Street and BLUT stand.
The other option which many use is to make a stand double or triple tier but think I’d prefer our Kop to remain single tier....like a proper Kop.

 

[Charlieblade]

It’s easy for me as an exile by choice, to take a more simplistic view. Ground improvements are necessary yes, but they are not the priority.
My teenage sons still live in the city, and have season tickets for the Kop, so I’m not entirely unsympathetic.
The fact is, sustainability costs money and that money does not come from capacity or stadium comforts. The team, wages, training infrastructure and ultimately, success as a football club, depends on investment in the right areas.
A bigger, better ground will remain a longer term aspiration for fans, and is only affordable once our long term footballing success is achieved and sustained. Chris Wilder and better players on higher wages must come before the improvements wanted by fans, otherwise, such ground improvements will represent a wasted football opportunity for the club.

 

[metalblade]

Why would a steeper stand lower capacity? We are already missing out on capacity by not having the corners filled in to the other stands properly. It always has to be make do and mend on the cheap for this club. Just thought but a new kop built with the corners done right with good facilities unlike the ones at present which were unfit for purpose 100 years ago might just encourage more people to want to go to games. As for those of us wanting to increase capacity and then give it to away fans words just fail me I didn't think you could get dumber than dumb but it seems some can. Any redevelopment should be done with rail seats now as it is the way forwards they don't have to be used for safe standing but will be there when it is allowed in the future.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The interim report was out last week:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51413557

As mentioned in the Other Football section, Spurs informed STHs last week that they expect their South Stand will move from being safe standing ready to actually safe standing next season. Man United a looking at trialling it. We would be absolutely mad to not work this into stadium redevelopment plans, and encouragingly it is on the club’s radar. As anxious as I am to sort the Kop out I’d happily delay that if it meant we could have safe standing there. It’s worth getting right, and building something fit for purpose for the long term rather than another cheapo 1992 esque job.

If we can incorporate safe standing for the whole Kop....we can build in really spacious concourse areas and go overboard on amenities.
Initially I’d expect our Kop to be limited to safe standing 11.5K....but even with a 1 to 1.5 ratio it could increase to 16K....so we need to ensure the concourses/ toilets/ bars can handle as extra 5K fans.

As you say its much better to patiently wait on the sidelines...then we can design it properly. Having 16K stood up on our Kop should make a great atmosphere.

 

[penthouseblade]

It’s only possible if you make the height of the Kop stand taller but I suspect they’d want to keep the height of the Kop similar to the John Street and BLUT stand.
The other option which many use is to make a stand double or triple tier but think I’d prefer our Kop to remain single tier....like a proper Kop.

It wouldn't be a Kop anymore if it was multi tiered, can't be having that! Yes I imagine it would be the same height as the South Stand, with no reduction in capacity and a better rake, which is a good thing no?

 

[TopBoy]

I can't see us ever been in this situation TopBoy! Its supply and demand at Liverpool, there is not much more room for extension at Anfield whereas we can increase the Lane's capacity to 50,000 with the space we have and to be honest I think our ceiling of fan numbers is probably around the 40,000 mark unless we regularly compete in the Champions League and as lovely as that thought is, its something we've never done before.

Ha! Maybe not on the scale of Liverpool but potentially limiting the number of season tickets, and selling more to members such as myself via ballot or to tourists looking for a UK city to go to in order to take a game in.

 

[Booker4]

Ha! Maybe not on the scale of Liverpool but potentially limiting the number of season tickets, and selling more to members such as myself via ballot or to tourists looking for a UK city to go to in order to take a game in.

I hope we become that popular but at the same time I can't see us ever having many foreign supporters coming in the numbers that clubs like Leeds would get, hate to say that, if they got promoted because Leeds has the history of success.

 

[Booker4]

The government have asked for a thorough independent study regards safe standing, it was started last year and is due to be given to the government soon.....the results were leaked this week....that they’ve acquired plenty of evidence to prove that “safe standing“ is safer than the current seats.

Therefore it looks certain that safe standing will soon be approved by the governement. Initially expect the government to restrict it to limited numbers/ small areas.
Man Utd have already announced they hope to introduce a small safe standing area for next season.

Once small safe standing areas are shown to be a success...then in 3 or 4 years this is likely to grow to much bigger areas....maybe even whole stands.
Then after a few more years clubs will be asking if they can increase the 1 to 1 ratio to fit in more fans increasing capacity like they do in Germany.
However bear in mind that in many stadia the concourse, amenities and toilets are designed for a maximum number.
So in some stands it’s impossible to increase capacity, even with rail seating.

On the one hand that's good to hear that its progressing but on the other hand it's still years behind Germany. Why can't we just look at how its done there rather than trialing it here first, its been done in large quantities for years in the Bundesliga. Surely, that's enough evidence they need?!

 

[Jon Bon II]

Bugger numbers?


:0

Not for me.......

Dempseys would have to let away fans in then...