The Lundstram Myth...

[PittsburghBlade]

You've posted about almost nothing else this season. Why do you have it in for Lundstram? It's not the facts, as they've been presented to you and you still haven't acknowledged you're wrong. Strange obsession.

I don't often feel the need to post so often like some do I read most threads and don't like to offer that many opinions, particularly since DenverBlade strangely changed his username to exactly the same as mine barring one letter I try not to post much other than something I strongly believe in.

I've never once said he doesn't make valuable contributions or doesn't deserve to be in the team. We don't have competition for him and it shows i the fact that he's regressed in the last month and we can't change anything down that side. It's not an obsession I'm offering an educated view I played football at a good level and don't think I'm being unreasonable and if you do that's fine, I'm not trying to personally attack anyone this is a forum for talking all things united.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

OK, if you know what you're talking about, and everybody else here just copies and pastes Twitter / FB shite, you've got to be right

There's only been one thought through and insightful post which I liked. He does make a valuable contribution to the team but if were looking to progress and not regress he's the first one we need to replace in my opinion because he's making mistakes that might not look costly but are ones that other players are too good to make.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Why on earth would we replace our most technically accomplished player, and arguably our best performer this season? Competition is needed, and it has proved a hole in the squad that has stopped us rotating and shutting down games when players tire. The gambles on Morrison and Besic haven't really borne much fruit (yesterday aside). Arguably this has cost is points, but Ii'm sure it'll be rectified in the fullness of time.
Hourihane is a Championship quality player with the odd eye catching goal. Wilder never plays players on the wrong side so his competition would be Fleck and Freeman. Good luck with that one.

Lundstram is technically our most accomplished player? no mate no no no no no no no. Norwood is technically the best player we've had for years and years and years. Wilder never plays players on "the wrong side" yet Freeman is competition for Fleck?

 

[Akinbiyi]

None of our players are very good actually, but put all 11 (+) together and they are awesome.

Many of our players would be bricking it if they were sold. Put them at another club without our strong ethics running from top to bottom and they'd soon get found out.

They all need each other. We are a totally UNITED unit.

Idiot

 

[Guesty]

Wasn’t alluding to that, was alluding to you thinking he gives the ball away all the time, which he doesn’t. I see you’re trying to switch this to me thinking Lunny’s keeps hold of it better than Coutts. Irrelevant really but there’s a reason why Lundstram plays for a Premier League team and Coutts a League One team. And it ain’t just “physical abilities”. Lundstram surprises me how well he keeps hold of the ball, I’d say slightly better than Fleck, and Norwood/Coutts (different type of player though in fairness).

Yes, it's because Coutts has suffered two very serious injuries. He's lucky to be playing at all.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

There's only been one thought through and insightful post which I liked. He does make a valuable contribution to the team but if were looking to progress and not regress he's the first one we need to replace in my opinion because he's making mistakes that might not look costly but are ones that other players are too good to make.

Have a think about people who think they are right, and think everyone else are complete idiots...............

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Have a think about people who think they are right, and think everyone else are complete idiots...............

I'm not really sure if you meant think or thing but I don't think people are idiots for disagreeing with me. I think people who disagree without the ability to justify their disagreement and just abuse someone who disagrees with them is in fact an idiot yes. But if you think I think that you're an idiot then I'll leave you with that one to ponder..

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I completely disagree with everything you say here.

I'd say that the only game he's faded was against Wolves as he looked knackered.

He puts a hell of a lot of work in, gets forward, supports the wing backs (as he did yesterday by laying the ball on for Baldock to cross for Enda's goal).

He has an excellent passing range, but is intelligent with his passing and keeps things simple where possible.

A huge part of why we've done so well this season is down to Lunny.

To date its between Lunny, Egan and McG for best player so far this season.

There really are some cranks around aren't there! I'll put this chap in the same boat as the moron who said Billy needs to go to the MLS... Lundstram is a weak link?!?! FFS...

Excellent rebutal mate, the only thing I'd disagree with you on is Enda needs to be in that list of potential players of the season...

 

[PittsburghBlade]

There really are some cranks around aren't there! I'll put this chap in the same boat as the moron who said Billy needs to go to the MLS... Lundstram is a weak link?!?! FFS...

Excellent rebutal mate, the only thing I'd disagree with you on is Enda needs to be in that list of potential players of the season...

So if we're going to get better who else would you replace? Seriously i'm happy to listen to your reasoning.

 

[Beans]

Find it quite amusing that you can reel off all these detailed stats, yet not know our league position

This is the Crystal Palace forum right?

 

[Sean Thornton]

What's that got to do with Lundstram being able to hold onto the ball better than Coutts? Who's said that and where except you? If Coutts had Lundstram's physical abilities he'd have him cleaning his boots ffs.



So that's it, this is the 11 that's going to stay with us for the next 20 years is it? Why can nobody disagree with my OP and its points yet I'm completely wrong for doing so I just don't get it honestly I'm not even saying he's a bad player I've just pointed out that he's the next player who needs to be replaced and there is no direct competition for him. I even said if we brought in direct competition he might lift his game which is exactly what a lot of our players have done.

No direct competition?

"He looks fit and leaner than he has in the past and his tactical discipline is what's keeping him in the side. We have much better players waiting and ready to go."

 

[Westran]

Mistakes happen at the highest level, the best players in the world make mistakes, but its correct to say we should always look to improve. I dont think scapegoating anyone will help us do that though

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I'm not really sure if you meant think or thing but I don't think people are idiots for disagreeing with me. I think people who disagree without the ability to justify their disagreement and just abuse someone who disagrees with them is in fact an idiot yes. But if you think I think that you're an idiot then I'll leave you with that one to ponder..

'think' was the right word.
You haven't got any abuse, lots of people disagreeing with you though. Please yourself, I cba

 

[nopigfansintown]

Lundstram is technically our most accomplished player? no mate no no no no no no no. Norwood is technically the best player we've had for years and years and years. Wilder never plays players on "the wrong side" yet Freeman is competition for Fleck?

Freeman's left footed?! Both he and Osborn are Fleck's competition. Norwood has nowhere near the technical ability of Coutts or Duffy, and that's just two from recent years. He'll be the first amongst the current midfield three to be replaced - unless a vulture snares Lundstram.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Freeman's left footed?! Both he and Osborn are Fleck's competition. Norwood has nowhere near the technical ability of Coutts or Duffy, and that's just two from recent years. He'll be the first amongst the current midfield three to be replaced - unless a vulture snares Lundstram.

Freeman is indeed left footed.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

One aside from this discussion is that we’re arguing about the identity of our most technically gifted players. This is not a subject that we would have been discussing five or six years ago, quite the opposite.

Eighth place in the Premier League, unbeaten away for how long? Let’s keep a sense of proportion...

 

[Houston_Blade]

I'm not really sure if you meant think or thing but I don't think people are idiots for disagreeing with me. I think people who disagree without the ability to justify their disagreement and just abuse someone who disagrees with them is in fact an idiot yes. But if you think I think that you're an idiot then I'll leave you with that one to ponder..

How do you justify a disagreement with someone?!

You’ve obviously poured a lot of time into your fact find of how bad Lundstram is. A lot of people won’t have the time to fact check these and respond in kind.

You then say that these facts are backed up with the level that you’ve played football at, Wayne Rooney played football at a pretty good level but I wouldn’t want to get into a debate with him.

Using my eyes and my judgement on what does and doesn’t make a decent player I’d say that Lundstram is. Pretty simple. Sorry I can’t quantify it and tell you how many passes he’s made or how many times he’s kicked the ball out.

If he turns completely shite and doesn’t have a decent game between now and the end of the season then you are right. But I don’t think that’s going to happen. Again I can’t statistically prove this.

 

[dc_blade]

Not to shout down debate, but this seems a strange thing to argue.

I really think he's been one of our best players this season. Not only is he our top-scoring midfielder and second top-scoring player overall, he's had more shots than any player bar McGoldrick from getting into the box at the right time (15 out of 24 shots inside the box so it's not like he's shooting from anywhere). I know some people hate the advanced stats but he has the highest expected goals of any player on our team bar McGoldrick, to go with the highest expected assists



Out of 50 passes attempted yesterday, 23 were forward, 17 were in attacking third (only Fleck had more), he created 2 chances (joint most with McGoldrick) including the 1 "big chance" of the game that McGoldrick put over - which came off a 60-yard sprint with the ball and then a perfect pass.

Honestly if that's our weak link then it's no wonder we're 9th in the table.

I don't often feel the need to post so often like some do I read most threads and don't like to offer that many opinions, particularly since DenverBlade strangely changed his username to exactly the same as mine barring one letter I try not to post much other than something I strongly believe in.

I've never once said he doesn't make valuable contributions or doesn't deserve to be in the team. We don't have competition for him and it shows i the fact that he's regressed in the last month and we can't change anything down that side. It's not an obsession I'm offering an educated view I played football at a good level and don't think I'm being unreasonable and if you do that's fine, I'm not trying to personally attack anyone this is a forum for talking all things united.

Not seen you respond to Ben, who has destroyed your whole argument in about two lines of text. And yet you keep complaining that no one has responded to your "educated view."

 

[PittsburghBlade]

How do you justify a disagreement with someone?!

You’ve obviously poured a lot of time into your fact find of how bad Lundstram is. A lot of people won’t have the time to fact check these and respond in kind.

You then say that these facts are backed up with the level that you’ve played football at, Wayne Rooney played football at a pretty good level but I wouldn’t want to get into a debate with him.

Using my eyes and my judgement on what does and doesn’t make a decent player I’d say that Lundstram is. Pretty simple. Sorry I can’t quantify it and tell you how many passes he’s made or how many times he’s kicked the ball out.

If he turns completely shite and doesn’t have a decent game between now and the end of the season then you are right. But I don’t think that’s going to happen. Again I can’t statistically prove this.

So i provide reasoning and debate for what I'm trying to prove, yet your impulse of needing to reply (who has forced you to I can't possibly think) to what I've posted knowing not everyone is going to agree yet providing basis for my argument just couldn't control itself?

I never said he wasn't a decent player, I never said he hasn't dramatically improved. What I have said though is people are becoming carried away and not actually seeing the unnecessary mistakes he's making because its now so fashionable to say how well he's doing.

I think he's the first player we need to replace if were going to get better and you haven't said who it should be. Can we not improve then from here? Is this it? No more players until they're all retired?

I'm not asking you to quantify anything i've done it for you.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Not seen you respond to Ben, who has destroyed your whole argument in about two lines of text. And yet you keep complaining that no one has responded to your "educated view."

I kept looking for his post and getting clogged up by the crap. He's our most forward thinking player and Fleck and Norwood are much more inclined to make us tick and drive the team on. Lundstram is encouraged to get in the box and he does involve himself well. He also is wasteful in a lot of good positions and this was the case when his cross for one of the "big chances" was cut out and a defensive mistake along with Baldock's brilliance won us the ball back and scored.

I'm not saying he isn't any good or can't do a good job for us, I just think were an excellent side and someone else better would make us even stronger.

 

[dc_blade]

I'm not saying he isn't any good or can't do a good job for us, I just think were an excellent side and someone else better would make us even stronger.

I think it's possible you were one of many who didn't want him involved at the beginning of the season. Unlike the others, you perhaps struggled to admit you were wrong up until now. But it seems like you're now at last acknowledging he's a good player and doing a good job for us.

 

[Ricky]

My main concern with Lunneh is burnout. Otherwise I think he's more than adequate for what we need this season and that replacing him in January is unrealistic. But signing strong competition for him is possible if Besic isn't deemed to be up to it.

Long term I'm not sure whether he or Norwood will be replaced first - it mostly depends on who we could sign. All I'm sure of is what I've thought for a long time - Fleck is untouchable and will again be the last man standing. Although Coutts without the injury would've had a very good chance of the same status.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Firstly I'll say he has massively improved and his conditioning over the summer was nothing short of a remarkable turnaround and has himself turned into a much better player.

We are a very good team and play a very efficient and creative system and style of play in which he has found a home in the right of a three as a mobile and efficient midfielder.

I think it's possible you were one of many who didn't want him involved at the beginning of the season. Unlike the others, you perhaps struggled to admit you were wrong up until now. But it seems like you're now at last acknowledging he's a good player and doing a good job for us.

Sorry was there any stage where I said he wasn't doing a good job? I just think he is our weakest link in a remarkably brilliant team.

I bet you knew all along he was going to start every game for us didn't you? You should've told us.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

My main concern with Lunneh is burnout. Otherwise I think he's more than adequate for what we need this season and that replacing him in January is unrealistic. But signing strong competition for him is possible if Besic isn't deemed to be up to it.

Long term I'm not sure whether he or Norwood will be replaced first - it mostly depends on who we could sign. All I'm sure of is what I've thought for a long time - Fleck is untouchable and will again be the last man standing. Although Coutts without the injury would've had a very good chance of the same status.

My thoughts too I think the last 3 games he's not looked capable of the same influence and seems to be regressing, I'd like to see us sign someone like phillips/Hourihane but just not sure if that's going to be doable and definitely not until the end of the year.

 

[Houston_Blade]

So i provide reasoning and debate for what I'm trying to prove, yet your impulse of needing to reply (who has forced you to I can't possibly think) to what I've posted knowing not everyone is going to agree yet providing basis for my argument just couldn't control itself?

I never said he wasn't a decent player, I never said he hasn't dramatically improved. What I have said though is people are becoming carried away and not actually seeing the unnecessary mistakes he's making because its now so fashionable to say how well he's doing.

I think he's the first player we need to replace if were going to get better and you haven't said who it should be. Can we not improve then from here? Is this it? No more players until they're all retired?

I'm not asking you to quantify anything i've done it for you.

So you haven't read any posts that people have responded with?

In my first response I said that we could of course improve on every player, but there is a balance between keeping team spirit and improving.

You may have dismissed my original response because it didn't have facts and figures but it sounds to me like your response to differing opinions is "I'm right you're wrong" due to some perceived view that you know better.

 

[dc_blade]

Sorry was there any stage where I said he wasn't doing a good job? I just think he is our weakest link in a remarkably brilliant team.

I bet you knew all along he was going to start every game for us didn't you? You should've told us.

United fans who think Lundstram is doing a good job for us and a good player can’t of ever played.

I didn't know he was going to play every game for us. But I do make a point of not making huge sweeping claims or predictions about what's going to happen in the future because football is unpredictable and you often wind up looking foolish. Regardless of boasts about having "played the game" at whatever level.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

So you haven't read any posts that people have responded with?

In my first response I said that we could of course improve on every player, but there is a balance between keeping team spirit and improving.

You may have dismissed my original response because it didn't have facts and figures but it sounds to me like your response to differing opinions is "I'm right you're wrong" due to some perceived view that you know better.

I don't mind if you disagree with me but don't disagree and tell me you can't be arsed to look into why I might think that because I've tried to give you reasons for it if you choose not to investigate them or completely ignore then I'm not going to respect your disagreement really.

 

[SwissBlade]

There really are some cranks around aren't there! I'll put this chap in the same boat as the moron who said Billy needs to go to the MLS... Lundstram is a weak link?!?! FFS...

Excellent rebutal mate, the only thing I'd disagree with you on is Enda needs to be in that list of potential players of the season...

Ha Ha yeah I could’ve added Enda, Fleck, Hendo, JOC onto that list...

 

[SwissBlade]

Lunny McG? No mentions of Stevens. Jesus

I tried to keep the list short

 

[LJBlade]

Amazing some of the responses on here. Not one person has been able to disagree with me based on my reasoning yet I'm completely out of order for criticizing him its baffling and typical of this fashion of fans just going with what's popular to say on twitter or clueless Facebook blayaards

It does help if you ignore the comments that have disagreed with you on your reasoning though.

As i said in my comment, the reasons you've given for why you think Lundstram is our 'clear weakest link' could be attributed to nearly everyone of our players at some point this season. One of your comments was about him regularly giving the ball away and yet he has a higher pass completion percentage than both Fleck and Norwood. In he has the highest pass completion percentage out of all of our regular starters.