January budget talks ongoing.

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A few observations.....I saw little mention of Luke Freeman when it comes to considering midfield-attacking options. whenever I've seen him he looks bright, inventive, works hard, and a good buy for what we paid...I get that Wilder likes a relatively settled side, so do I, and of course it's tough on any player asking them to be patient, but if anyone has any insights into why he seems an almost forgotten man I'd be interested to learn more.

As for new recruitment, the addition of a permanent 'Keeper is essential and something that I'm sure Wilder is more than focused on securing. Whether we sign Henderson or not remains to be seen, far too many variables that colour his situation. If it were possible I'd take him in a shot, a good player that's only going to get better (especially as DH has gone on record as saying he feels he'd improve under our goalkeeping coach, Darren Ward), but whether our future and his are meant to be, well Man Utd seem to have most of the aces where Dean's career is meant to be. No doubt Wilder has a plan that's being sounded out, so a case of watch this space I guess.

The final question surrounds our attacking threat. When it was announced we'd signed McBurnie and Robinson I wasn't unhappy, McB had a reputation that many Blades recognised as being a player who, when he'd played against us, had impressed and was probably worth our interest. So far I feel underwhelmed with a player who I had hoped would deliver far more in return of goals and the workload he'd be willing to bear. I feel that with Robinson we've gone from considering a player who might be a shoe-in to someone who can't cut it at this level. Maybe he needs time to adjust, maybe there's a player who's waiting to move up a level that we've yet to see...but up until now he seems lacking in the most essential qualities that separate the good and outstanding from the mediocre. I hope I'm wrong, time will tell.

One quality I think a forward has to project is to impose himself, both on the opposing defence and with his teammates. In the past we've had forwards with varying degrees of success, whether it's Sharp, whose willingness to work, make himself available, and have the instincts that have given us such a healthy return on goals scored, or Beattie, that's James not Craig, or our former forward, Keith Henderson. These and several others all had the qualities needed to make a difference, but players of the quality we need are in demand, thus their price tags are usually at the top end of the fee scale. In real terms McB wasn't at the top end of the valuation scale, but for United it seemed like a hefty chunk of money that we were about to part company with, but I was also happy that we were showing the necessary ambition to be fit for purpose. There's still time for McB or Robinson to convince us of their worth to the Blades, but they need to show far more, otherwise we need to part company and look elsewhere for more convincing recruits.

For the moment we're looking to ensure that we remain in this division. That's about the sum total of our ambition, even with the lofty position we currently deserve to be in. Next season may be a very different kettle of fish, so strengthening between Jan and the summer will the single most important areas for Wilder and his team...but for now we're doing amazingly well, expectations have been well and truly exceeded, and I'm as happy as a Blade could be. Whatever we spent during last summer, I expect us to spend more next summer. Not because I get a buzz from the club spending tens of millions, but because it's a necessity that we can't avoid.....unless we manage to produce an Academy player capable of making a difference.
 



Sigh.....

What are you sighing at?

I wasn’t being a knob about the ‘appeasing fans’ comment, wilder has got form for going against the grain. Billy Sharp hasn’t started a game yet and he’s club captain. He dropped Lunny in against the wishes of 90% of the fan base. Expect him to do it again.

And in terms of the Mcburnie comment, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to imagine he will settle in. Look at wood at Burnley. He was shite and looked lost for the first 6-8 months for them and is now settled in and looks one of their best attacking threats. Loads of examples of it.

Mcburnie hasn’t really ‘had a run’ in our side, I don’t really think 3 or 4 starts in a row qualifies personally. Especially when you think during those 3/4 games we were struggling to create clear cut chances. I imagine if he was playing in the Burnley game he’d have probably bagged a couple and everyone would be talking about how he’s landed and what a player he is. That’s how small the difference is isn’t it. I’m not saying for a minute that it was a mistake to start Moose instead, but they can’t all play at the same time can they?
 
What are you sighing at?

I wasn’t being a knob about the ‘appeasing fans’ comment, wilder has got form for going against the grain. Billy Sharp hasn’t started a game yet and he’s club captain. He dropped Lunny in against the wishes of 90% of the fan base. Expect him to do it again.

And in terms of the Mcburnie comment, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to imagine he will settle in. Look at wood at Burnley. He was shite and looked lost for the first 6-8 months for them and is now settled in and looks one of their best attacking threats. Loads of examples of it.

Mcburnie hasn’t really ‘had a run’ in our side, I don’t really think 3 or 4 starts in a row qualifies personally. Especially when you think during those 3/4 games we were struggling to create clear cut chances. I imagine if he was playing in the Burnley game he’d have probably bagged a couple and everyone would be talking about how he’s landed and what a player he is. That’s how small the difference is isn’t it. I’m not saying for a minute that it was a mistake to start Moose instead, but they can’t all play at the same time can they?

Sean Thornton is a world class sigher, does it at every chance he gets, sometimes it's misconstrued as arrogance, or even as a deflating opinion of another poster, but in truth I just think he likes to sigh, it seems his default response to almost anything. Better that than appearing to like the sound of your own voice I guess.
 
I dont care a monkey's what other teams are paying for players, that's down to them. Thanks for your in depth insight by the way. Can you answer the question posed as to why Wilders not starting him? Doesn't fit our style? Horses for courses? Or just doesn't fancy him? Presumably he sees him train every day.

McBurnie was ready to come on Saturday, but Baldock scored and Wilder didn't need to bring on another striker at 1-1. It's not as if Wilder doesn't rate him, at the moment he appears to be 3rd choice.

I'd love to see McBurnie play alongside McGoldrick, I think he'd look a hell of a lot better than when he has been partnered with the other strikers.
 
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Whilst the contract offered to him at Sunderland was down to the club and agent, he was still happy to sit around and bleed that club dry, knowing how strapped for cash they were at the time, when he could have looked for a transfer.

I am not sure that he has the hunger required to be part of a Wilder team.

My impression of Rodwell at Sunderland was that he wanted to leave but he wasn't prepared to take a loss on his contract to make that happen. Why should he? In addition, the one trying to force him out was Martin Bain - the Chief Exec who was on a £1.2m per year contract. I didn't see anything in the Sunderland 'Til I Die documentary suggesting that Bain offered to reduce his £25k per week salary so why should Rodwell accept less than he was contractually entitled to?
 
Brains not your strong point?
My point was pretty clear, you can’t expect an instant impact in the Premier League. The price doesn’t matter. There are strikers cost a LOT more than Oli who haven’t got up and running for about a season and half in this division so writing him off is fucking daft.

I mean it’s just a guess but I’d suggest it’s probably because Mousset and McGoldrick are playing extremely well right now so there’s no justification for starting him.

Same goes for all his other summer signings who are currently being kept out by the promotion winning XI.
Brains not your strong point? Thanks for the adult debate and conversation. If any of the other summer signings were better than last season's, they'd be playing. Go to any of the league cup games? You've got your take on Mcburnie and that's fine, it differs from mine. As I've said previously I hope he comes good, just dont see it. For clarity, your point was far from clear. If it's that 17 million isn't a lot in the premier league I'd agree. But we're not an established premier league club yet so I'd argue with it being our record fee paid you could expect to see more.
 
What are you sighing at?

I wasn’t being a knob about the ‘appeasing fans’ comment, wilder has got form for going against the grain. Billy Sharp hasn’t started a game yet and he’s club captain. He dropped Lunny in against the wishes of 90% of the fan base. Expect him to do it again.

And in terms of the Mcburnie comment, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to imagine he will settle in. Look at wood at Burnley. He was shite and looked lost for the first 6-8 months for them and is now settled in and looks one of their best attacking threats. Loads of examples of it.

Mcburnie hasn’t really ‘had a run’ in our side, I don’t really think 3 or 4 starts in a row qualifies personally. Especially when you think during those 3/4 games we were struggling to create clear cut chances. I imagine if he was playing in the Burnley game he’d have probably bagged a couple and everyone would be talking about how he’s landed and what a player he is. That’s how small the difference is isn’t it. I’m not saying for a minute that it was a mistake to start Moose instead, but they can’t all play at the same time can they?


Did you really think my initial post was serious?
 
Staying up and then getting into that upward spiral of expenditure is a dangerous game. We may make fun of Wednesday fans counting the days till our fall (and I know I do, for one) but beyond the big-moneyed 6 + Everton, there is no such thing as an "established" PL club. I think West Ham have the longest unbroken run apart from those other clubs as they're into their 8th season.

Stoke probably thought they were, with their rich owner and numerous signings not good enough for Barcelona. They'd finished 9th the season before they were relegated and they had players like Shaquiri, Arnautovic, Jese, Afellay, Bojan and the Welsh Xavi.

When relegation comes the side inevitably gets broken up, the ones who've proved themselves get new PL clubs and the others remain, either still on very big wages or, because of relegation clauses, on vastly reduced ones, demoralised and bitter.

This situation needs planning for, because it's going to happen. Personally I hope it takes 10 years and I don't care about it as I'm enjoying the ride right now, but over-stretching to avoid the inevitable is a bad idea. When we're relegated we need to be in a strong position to challenge again in the Championship, not be trying desperately to offload useless articles who'll drag us further down.
 
My impression of Rodwell at Sunderland was that he wanted to leave but he wasn't prepared to take a loss on his contract to make that happen. Why should he? In addition, the one trying to force him out was Martin Bain - the Chief Exec who was on a £1.2m per year contract. I didn't see anything in the Sunderland 'Til I Die documentary suggesting that Bain offered to reduce his £25k per week salary so why should Rodwell accept less than he was contractually entitled to?

All fair points, that I wouldn't disagree with. But hearing how disappointed Wilder was with some of our players earlier in the season, when they were surplus to requirement but decided to hang around, I would be surprised if he didn't consider what happened at Sunderland. I don't know the details in our case of course, but I can imagine the likes of Wright, Holmes, Henneghan, weren't going to get similar contracts elsewhere.

Who knows though? Wilder knows what he is looking for and if Rodwell fits the bill then it's all good with me.
 
Robinson and McBurnie aren’t currently cutting the mustard as genuine scapegoats so we need to look to fill that role to appease a proportion of the fan base.

This!

Wilder has dropped a real bollock on this front by putting Lundstram in the team and making him play like Gerrard on steroids. Robinson and McBurnie aren't up to speed, so we need to go back to tried and tested. Get on the blower to Adkins for some good recommendations.
 



I’m amazed how many people are willing to judge Robinson and McBurnie on the basis of such a short time span. The only reason we get rid early is if their attitude stinks, or in the hugely unlikely scenario Wilder can trade in to upgrade.

We invest in players in their early 20s for a very good reason. If fans aren’t patient enough to back them properly then they need a stiff dose of financial realism.

100%

If the turn around of Lunny proves anything it’s that it’s idiotic to write someone off after a handful of appearances.

Even Leon Clarke looked a bust after 2/3s of his first season before coming alive.

Players like Stevens and Baldock have looked better and better each season. Let’s trust wilder to make the correct decisions as he has done at every turn
 
All fair points, that I wouldn't disagree with. But hearing how disappointed Wilder was with some of our players earlier in the season, when they were surplus to requirement but decided to hang around, I would be surprised if he didn't consider what happened at Sunderland. I don't know the details in our case of course, but I can imagine the likes of Wright, Holmes, Henneghan, weren't going to get similar contracts elsewhere.

Who knows though? Wilder knows what he is looking for and if Rodwell fits the bill then it's all good with me.

I think Wilder's frustrations with Holmes in particular is that we made him an offer to cancel his contract but he rejected it. I have no doubt that we're paying Ched Evans and Samir Carruthers at Fleetwood and Cambridge respectively - possibly even making them up to the levels they'd have been at had they not left us. Sunderland didn't want to do that with Rodwell; in Sunderland Til I Die Rodwell has a loan move lined up which falls through - I'd imagine because Sunderland refused to top up his wages.

Don't forget that this is also a Sunderland which continued to pay Adam Johnson £60k per week after he admitted to them that he was guilty of the offence that he later got sent down for. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/03/sudnerland-adam-johnson-sexual-abuse
 
A few observations.....I saw little mention of Luke Freeman when it comes to considering midfield-attacking options. whenever I've seen him he looks bright, inventive, works hard, and a good buy for what we paid...I get that Wilder likes a relatively settled side, so do I, and of course it's tough on any player asking them to be patient, but if anyone has any insights into why he seems an almost forgotten man I'd be interested to learn more.

As for new recruitment, the addition of a permanent 'Keeper is essential and something that I'm sure Wilder is more than focused on securing. Whether we sign Henderson or not remains to be seen, far too many variables that colour his situation. If it were possible I'd take him in a shot, a good player that's only going to get better (especially as DH has gone on record as saying he feels he'd improve under our goalkeeping coach, Darren Ward), but whether our future and his are meant to be, well Man Utd seem to have most of the aces where Dean's career is meant to be. No doubt Wilder has a plan that's being sounded out, so a case of watch this space I guess.

The final question surrounds our attacking threat. When it was announced we'd signed McBurnie and Robinson I wasn't unhappy, McB had a reputation that many Blades recognised as being a player who, when he'd played against us, had impressed and was probably worth our interest. So far I feel underwhelmed with a player who I had hoped would deliver far more in return of goals and the workload he'd be willing to bear. I feel that with Robinson we've gone from considering a player who might be a shoe-in to someone who can't cut it at this level. Maybe he needs time to adjust, maybe there's a player who's waiting to move up a level that we've yet to see...but up until now he seems lacking in the most essential qualities that separate the good and outstanding from the mediocre. I hope I'm wrong, time will tell.

One quality I think a forward has to project is to impose himself, both on the opposing defence and with his teammates. In the past we've had forwards with varying degrees of success, whether it's Sharp, whose willingness to work, make himself available, and have the instincts that have given us such a healthy return on goals scored, or Beattie, that's James not Craig, or our former forward, Keith Henderson***(see below). These and several others all had the qualities needed to make a difference, but players of the quality we need are in demand, thus their price tags are usually at the top end of the fee scale. In real terms McB wasn't at the top end of the valuation scale, but for United it seemed like a hefty chunk of money that we were about to part company with, but I was also happy that we were showing the necessary ambition to be fit for purpose. There's still time for McB or Robinson to convince us of their worth to the Blades, but they need to show far more, otherwise we need to part company and look elsewhere for more convincing recruits.

For the moment we're looking to ensure that we remain in this division. That's about the sum total of our ambition, even with the lofty position we currently deserve to be in. Next season may be a very different kettle of fish, so strengthening between Jan and the summer will the single most important areas for Wilder and his team...but for now we're doing amazingly well, expectations have been well and truly exceeded, and I'm as happy as a Blade could be. Whatever we spent during last summer, I expect us to spend more next summer. Not because I get a buzz from the club spending tens of millions, but because it's a necessity that we can't avoid.....unless we manage to produce an Academy player capable of making a difference.

Bugger, meant to write Keith Edwards***, not Henderson, just got carried away with making a point, sorry if I confused anyone.
 
Unless Robinson or McBurnie have a massive upturn we are very light in that area of the pitch 🤷‍♂️

So our Billy could get a bit more “game time“ (nauseating junior computer manager phrase 🤮)? Fantastic. That’s all that matters to me.
 
I think you may be underestimating the mental and emotional side, and also the fact that we have to work so much harder to compete with better teams. The players will literally be drained after a premier League game in a way that never happened in the championship.

Exactly. I needed a long lie down and several days to recover after the Arsenal game, and all I'd done was sit on my arse and watch.
 
Staying up and then getting into that upward spiral of expenditure is a dangerous game. We may make fun of Wednesday fans counting the days till our fall (and I know I do, for one) but beyond the big-moneyed 6 + Everton, there is no such thing as an "established" PL club. I think West Ham have the longest unbroken run apart from those other clubs as they're into their 8th season.

Stoke probably thought they were, with their rich owner and numerous signings not good enough for Barcelona. They'd finished 9th the season before they were relegated and they had players like Shaquiri, Arnautovic, Jese, Afellay, Bojan and the Welsh Xavi.

When relegation comes the side inevitably gets broken up, the ones who've proved themselves get new PL clubs and the others remain, either still on very big wages or, because of relegation clauses, on vastly reduced ones, demoralised and bitter.

This situation needs planning for, because it's going to happen. Personally I hope it takes 10 years and I don't care about it as I'm enjoying the ride right now, but over-stretching to avoid the inevitable is a bad idea. When we're relegated we need to be in a strong position to challenge again in the Championship, not be trying desperately to offload useless articles who'll drag us further down.

Screw that! This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to compete at the top level and even win a trophy. Give Wilder every penny he wants to spend.

If we go down what's the worst that can happen? League One? Been there, done that and got the t-shirt.
 
Financial realism? So its wrong to expect better for 17 million? Football realism should be the true currency. Theres a reason Wilder's not picking Mcburnie. Or are people doubting Wilders judgement? FWIW I have no problem putting my cards on the table. I dont think he's good enough. I really hope at the end of the season I'm eating humble pie, I want him to be a success, just dont see it. Scapegoat? People need scapegoats when things are going wrong. Were 5th in the premier league, do me a favour.
And the reason he is not picking him is that we are 5th in the premier league.
 
Whose to say Oli and Callum won't settle in? our system is unique so will still be unfamiliar to some new strikers. Forwards are so dependent on speed and sharpness to defeat a defense - yet they have little time to hone it. A priority is a goalpoacher but they have to adapt their poaching to become the player who is the first line of the defense and still able to beat the worlds best defensive systems - big gamble to believe some high value unproven PL will do any better.
The forgotten heroes of the team are the ones who have to sit on the bench wasting their time while the first team takes all the glory. When called upon they have to be ready to make the difference, so Wilder's focus on the patient mindset of the new recruits will be crucial.
Also asking HRH to stump up £20m + for backup players who as hopefully the first team are injury free, will only stay on the bench and never be used- will be difficult. His investors wont be tolerant born and bred unitedites but just focused on a return on their investment.
 
Nicholas Pepe cost Arsenal £70mil and has yet to score in the Premier League
Joelinton cost Newcastle £50mil and scored as many as Oli has in more games
'He cost x money!!!' is no longer a valid reason to judge a player in terms of 'instant impact' - it's not that straightforward.

Writing a player off after 3 months is really fucking stupid as well by the way, reeeeeally fucking stupid. Especially when we weren't as free flowing and adventurous as we've become since minute 1 of the Burnley game.
And I’m sure wilder would agree. The likelihood of Wilder thinking he is crap is close to zero.
 
I can only assume his logic is that if we're looking safe(ish) by January he'd want to bring in a few quality players to allow settling/bonding early to build on remainder of season and into preseason for our champions league push next year? :oops:
NEXT year????
 



Screw that! This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to compete at the top level and even win a trophy. Give Wilder every penny he wants to spend.

If we go down what's the worst that can happen? League One? Been there, done that and got the t-shirt.
And lose £100m* in the process. Try selling that to PA.




*assessment of loss provided may not be accurate.
 

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