The problem with our current success...

[SMFblade]

As the weeks go on, pundits are getting more accurate in their analysis and comment and the Roygbiv 'view from' get's less about our lucky, direct, hard-working and basic football and more about how we are able to stifle teams who have superstars, but no real structure, tactical leadership or gameplan. One of my favourite moments in the week is reading the Friday pre-match view. Being the underdog fires me up and judging from the comments on the forum - it does for a lot of you.

I've been a fan since I was a kid. My first game was in 1992 and I've never really seen us play great football. Like a lot of you I've spent rainy Tuesday nights at Gigg Lane, Vale Park, and endured too many play-offs and off field dramas. I've always considered us the underdogs who are usually hard done by. If it can go wrong, it will.

But what happens now things are changing?

1) Other managers start to realise the reason their teams don't play well against us, is because of US not them? Send scouts, do their preparation and figure out ways to deal with our rigid defensive systems?
2) Other managers create systems to deal with our 'overlapping centre-backs' or even copy it and it becomes a norm of the game?
3) We begin to expect more - one day we won't be the underdogs.

My fear is that the more the pundits, other managers and teams come around to the way we play and understand it's intricacies - the harder time we are going to have and we then will see just how good Chris Wilder is. I just hope it's not this season because if teams do switch on - we could have a hellish time January onwards. If we are very successful and continue adapting and out-foxing the teams and managers in the best league in the world - can we keep hold of Wilder?

These aren't urgent points but I hope that the club can see that if we continue the way we are going, we won't be underdogs for long. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, putting my faith in CWAK and remaining optimistic about the Prince and his vision forward.

UTB

 

[Niceguyeddie]

As the weeks go on, pundits are getting more accurate in their analysis and comment and the Roygbiv 'view from' get's less about our lucky, direct, hard-working and basic football and more about how we are able to stifle teams who have superstars, but no real structure, tactical leadership or gameplan. One of my favourite moments in the week is reading the Friday pre-match view. Being the underdog fires me up and judging from the comments on the forum - it does for a lot of you.

I've been a fan since I was a kid. My first game was in 1992 and I've never really seen us play great football. Like a lot of you I've spent rainy Tuesday nights at Gigg Lane, Vale Park, and endured too many play-offs and off field dramas. I've always considered us the underdogs who are usually hard done by. If it can go wrong, it will.

But what happens now things are changing?

1) Other managers start to realise the reason their teams don't play well against us, is because of US not them? Send scouts, do their preparation and figure out ways to deal with our rigid defensive systems?
2) Other managers create systems to deal with our 'overlapping centre-backs' or even copy it and it becomes a norm of the game?
3) We begin to expect more - one day we won't be the underdogs.

My fear is that the more the pundits, other managers and teams come around to the way we play and understand it's intricacies - the harder time we are going to have and we then will see just how good Chris Wilder is. I just hope it's not this season because if teams do switch on - we could have a hellish time January onwards. If we are very successful and continue adapting and out-foxing the teams and managers in the best league in the world - can we keep hold of Wilder?

These aren't urgent points but I hope that the club can see that if we continue the way we are going, we won't be underdogs for long. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, putting my faith in CWAK and remaining optimistic about the Prince and his vision forward.

UTB

Sheffield United under Chris wilder continually adjust and adapt
We don't play the same way we did last season because it wouldn't work so we adapted it to the premier League

 

[Selly]

Send scouts, do their preparation and figure out ways to deal with our rigid defensive systems?

You don't think that Premier League and Championship clubs don't do this already?

Knowing what we are going to do is very different from being able to effectively stop is from doing it.

putting my faith in CWAK

This. Every challenge they have come is against in the last 3 and a bit years they have dealt with. If we are suddenly not the underdog them see us right.

 

[blademark]

As the weeks go on, pundits are getting more accurate in their analysis and comment and the Roygbiv 'view from' get's less about our lucky, direct, hard-working and basic football and more about how we are able to stifle teams who have superstars, but no real structure, tactical leadership or gameplan. One of my favourite moments in the week is reading the Friday pre-match view. Being the underdog fires me up and judging from the comments on the forum - it does for a lot of you.

I've been a fan since I was a kid. My first game was in 1992 and I've never really seen us play great football. Like a lot of you I've spent rainy Tuesday nights at Gigg Lane, Vale Park, and endured too many play-offs and off field dramas. I've always considered us the underdogs who are usually hard done by. If it can go wrong, it will.

But what happens now things are changing?

1) Other managers start to realise the reason their teams don't play well against us, is because of US not them? Send scouts, do their preparation and figure out ways to deal with our rigid defensive systems?
2) Other managers create systems to deal with our 'overlapping centre-backs' or even copy it and it becomes a norm of the game?
3) We begin to expect more - one day we won't be the underdogs.

My fear is that the more the pundits, other managers and teams come around to the way we play and understand it's intricacies - the harder time we are going to have and we then will see just how good Chris Wilder is. I just hope it's not this season because if teams do switch on - we could have a hellish time January onwards. If we are very successful and continue adapting and out-foxing the teams and managers in the best league in the world - can we keep hold of Wilder?

These aren't urgent points but I hope that the club can see that if we continue the way we are going, we won't be underdogs for long. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, putting my faith in CWAK and remaining optimistic about the Prince and his vision forward.

UTB

I take your point, other teams will begin to understand us more etc, but we faced the same challenges in the championship. Second season was when we should in theory have struggled?
I'm pretty sure we are already playing a plan B, like yesterday, and in CWAK, we have two extremely inventive coaches, and plan C will be along sometime soon. Its all in front of us and all to look forward to.

 

[gordoncharles]

You think other PL managers only know about the Blades from what they learn from pundits? Or any other manager? Bielsa would have had someone hiding in the bushes.

As for pundits, last night on MoTD was hilarious. Despite Wilder saying we didn't play well, or how we wanted to, Cahill and Lineker still carried on with their analysis that the way the game panned out was, in fact, exactly how he had planned it.

It reminds me why I don't watch any of that sort of shite normally. At least Sky just give you the highlights, none of that bullshittery masquerading as analysis.

 

[SteveBlade]

Do you think the management of Championship, and even League One teams just sit around waiting for Saturday without bothering to analyse their opponents?

Do you think the management teams of Everton, Chelsea, Palace, Bournemouth, Leicester and Southampton thought to themselves 'we're playing newly promoted Sheffield United this week, bollox to the tactical preparation, they're shit.'

We are where we are because our manager is better than most, not because no one else has been arsed to try to counteract us up to now.

 

[Groucho Blade]

As soon as the others have sussed out our game plan; we’ll change it. Always striving to keep one step ahead.

 

[SittingontheBall]

You’re just being a Blade with that line of thought.
“We’re doing well so it’s all going to go wrong”. It’s hard to shift, ingrained in a lot of us if you like.
Only continued success will shift it but CW keeps upping the league we are competing in and so we Blades aren’t getting the chance to get comfortable!
Long may this kind of doubt and uncertainty continue!

 

[SMFblade]

Absolutely the teams do their homework. But it doesn't appear like they've taken us seriously enough to do it yet. every goal that has been scored against us has been due to either our mistake or a piece of individual brilliance.

I heard an interview on TalkSport with Ian Holloway about how little managers prepare when making signings, how sometimes their scouting team haven't even seen their new signings play in person and have just used Youtube.

The Premier League teams have massively more to invest in match prep and far far more people working for them and more resources. No offence to championship teams or league one teams but this is a different level and from what I've seen so far and we are not understood at all.

Either it's because we are heads and shoulders above them - or they aren't doing the work.

 

[SMFblade]

You’re just being a Blade with that line of thought.

You're not wrong.

 

[Gavlar]

The biggest problem will be the comment 'we expect more'. It's easy to enjoy it if we expect to be beaten. Like against Liverpool next week, we expect nothing, so can enjoy the game. The pressure is off. It turns around when we are expected to do well.

Having said that Wilder is so good, im sure we will be ok. The bigger danger is when Wilder realises he is too good for us and leaves.

 

[The Tea Lady]

As the weeks go on, pundits are getting more accurate in their analysis and comment and the Roygbiv 'view from' get's less about our lucky, direct, hard-working and basic football and more about how we are able to stifle teams who have superstars, but no real structure, tactical leadership or gameplan. One of my favourite moments in the week is reading the Friday pre-match view. Being the underdog fires me up and judging from the comments on the forum - it does for a lot of you.

I've been a fan since I was a kid. My first game was in 1992 and I've never really seen us play great football. Like a lot of you I've spent rainy Tuesday nights at Gigg Lane, Vale Park, and endured too many play-offs and off field dramas. I've always considered us the underdogs who are usually hard done by. If it can go wrong, it will.

But what happens now things are changing?

1) Other managers start to realise the reason their teams don't play well against us, is because of US not them? Send scouts, do their preparation and figure out ways to deal with our rigid defensive systems?
2) Other managers create systems to deal with our 'overlapping centre-backs' or even copy it and it becomes a norm of the game?
3) We begin to expect more - one day we won't be the underdogs.

My fear is that the more the pundits, other managers and teams come around to the way we play and understand it's intricacies - the harder time we are going to have and we then will see just how good Chris Wilder is. I just hope it's not this season because if teams do switch on - we could have a hellish time January onwards. If we are very successful and continue adapting and out-foxing the teams and managers in the best league in the world - can we keep hold of Wilder?

These aren't urgent points but I hope that the club can see that if we continue the way we are going, we won't be underdogs for long. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, putting my faith in CWAK and remaining optimistic about the Prince and his vision forward.

UTB

One aspect of this is that the teams we play have finite resources of time and - judging from general mardiness amongst Everton players with 20' or so to go yesterday - commitment.

They have a week to prepare at most. We're just the next opposition in a production line of opponents. Each of who require work. One advantage we have is that the problems we pose are unusual, maybe even unique. If there was a quick fix it's likely someone would have found it by now and we'd be back at the bottom of League One having just let in 3 in 20' against Southend again.

We can analyse our game endlessly, forensically, but plenty of our opponents have got "better" things to do.

(I don't know if it's backed up by stats but anecdotally there's a general "second half of the season fall off" as teams who have played newly-promoted teams once already, play them again, and have adapted slightly more than the first time round. Something similar might happen to us.)

Besides that, a huge part of our game is desire and commitment. For instance, I can't imagine many players doing what Mousset did yesterday*. He was on the floor when Lundstram got the ball; most Prima Donna League players would have been calling for their hair-stylist at that point. Mousset got on with it. Timing, technique, pace, vision, commitment, everything about that goal was incredible.

And that's just one side of it: Wilder said in one of his interviews after the game that it was the togetherness that kept a clean sheet yesterday.



*Or Bash away at L***s last year.

 

[SMFblade]

One aspect of this is that the teams we play have finite resources of time and - judging from general mardiness amongst Everton players with 20' or so to go yesterday - commitment.

They have a week to prepare at most. We're just the next opposition in a production line of opponents. Each of who require work. One advantage we have is that the problems we pose are unusual, maybe even unique. If there was a quick fix it's likely someone would have found it by now and we'd be back at the bottom of League One having just let in 3 in 20' against Southend again.

We can analyse our game endlessly, forensically, but plenty of our opponents have got "better" things to do.

Even though I agree with you, I think it's such a crazy approach. Football is about results. If you're not getting them, trouble begins. Teams don't make their predicted positions in the league, miss out on money, players move on to clubs with more ambition and the downward spiral begins. The downward spiral is now far far harsher than it used to be. Look at Portsmouth, Sunderland, Bolton etc.,

Why teams would believe they have better things to do than prepare for the only thing that matters - the football match is really beyond me.

 

[drinksmat]

OP Point 2 - would love to see that happen as we have had 3 years head start of fine tuning the system and recruiting to improve.

Bottom line is that we havn't been in the PL long enough to prove it works over a season, however good the omens are at the moment.

Another angle is that we have had stable management for 3 years now. This is a team, structure and philosophy that has taken time to build. A lot of managers have about 18 months to come in and get results and what we do needs time and recruitment which many other managers just don't have. Answer to that is pay X for player Y and hope it works rather than building a legacy.

 

[JohnDenver]

As the weeks go on, pundits are getting more accurate in their analysis and comment and the Roygbiv 'view from' get's less about our lucky, direct, hard-working and basic football and more about how we are able to stifle teams who have superstars, but no real structure, tactical leadership or gameplan. One of my favourite moments in the week is reading the Friday pre-match view. Being the underdog fires me up and judging from the comments on the forum - it does for a lot of you.

I've been a fan since I was a kid. My first game was in 1992 and I've never really seen us play great football. Like a lot of you I've spent rainy Tuesday nights at Gigg Lane, Vale Park, and endured too many play-offs and off field dramas. I've always considered us the underdogs who are usually hard done by. If it can go wrong, it will.

But what happens now things are changing?

1) Other managers start to realise the reason their teams don't play well against us, is because of US not them? Send scouts, do their preparation and figure out ways to deal with our rigid defensive systems?
2) Other managers create systems to deal with our 'overlapping centre-backs' or even copy it and it becomes a norm of the game?
3) We begin to expect more - one day we won't be the underdogs.

My fear is that the more the pundits, other managers and teams come around to the way we play and understand it's intricacies - the harder time we are going to have and we then will see just how good Chris Wilder is. I just hope it's not this season because if teams do switch on - we could have a hellish time January onwards. If we are very successful and continue adapting and out-foxing the teams and managers in the best league in the world - can we keep hold of Wilder?

These aren't urgent points but I hope that the club can see that if we continue the way we are going, we won't be underdogs for long. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, putting my faith in CWAK and remaining optimistic about the Prince and his vision forward.

UTB

The problem is that all good things come to an end?

 

[tincan]

One aspect of this is that the teams we play have finite resources of time and - judging from general mardiness amongst Everton players with 20' or so to go yesterday - commitment.

They have a week to prepare at most. We're just the next opposition in a production line of opponents. Each of who require work. One advantage we have is that the problems we pose are unusual, maybe even unique. If there was a quick fix it's likely someone would have found it by now and we'd be back at the bottom of League One having just let in 3 in 20' against Southend again.

We can analyse our game endlessly, forensically, but plenty of our opponents have got "better" things to do.

(I don't know if it's backed up by stats but anecdotally there's a general "second half of the season fall off" as teams who have played newly-promoted teams once already, play them again, and have adapted slightly more than the first time round. Something similar might happen to us.)

Besides that, a huge part of our game is desire and commitment. For instance, I can't imagine many players doing what Mousset did yesterday*. He was on the floor when Lundstram got the ball; most Prima Donna League players would have been calling for their hair-stylist at that point. Mousset got on with it. Timing, technique, pace, vision, commitment, everything about that goal was incredible.

And that's just one side of it: Wilder said in one of his interviews after the game that it was the togetherness that kept a clean sheet yesterday.



*Or Bash away at L***s last year.

Maybe because our style was honed in league 1, where the system could make mistakes and the opposition weren't good enough to make us pay.
Now anyone who wants to copy it, has to have had a similar journey for the players to have the confidence to keep faith with it. In the Championship and and the Pl the cost of those mistakes are too high, hence the source of our uniqueness.

 

[bypassblade]

Seen some great United teams seen some dross, but in 1973 we demolished Arsenal 5-0 at Lane, we were 4-0 up inside 17 minutes. I have lot's of special memories but sadly they are fewer than the horror stories.

 

[fuerstenberger]

Wilder's 'secret', is his ability to pick a player with the correct attitude. Teams have worked us out already, the problem is they can't seem to outwork us. We are better than our own players believe. As for next week, I can assure you we will not be underestimated. Remember Farke and Klopp are ex colleagues and good friends.

 

[SMFblade]

The problem is that all good things come to an end?

Let's hope that they come to an end in an 'Alex Ferguson' way with 13 premier league titles, 5 FA cups and 2 Champions Leagues with a Man City-esque business model in the background.

Rather than being Derby circa 2008

 

[LenTednTony]

As for those that worry about CWAK leaving, maybe he will but, why would he? He is managing his boyhood club, he is being successful, he has the respect of the fans and owner alike and he is already into building a dynasty the likes of Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger had. While we back him, I firmly believe that he will stay and be successful whatever successful means. UTB & FTP

 

[GrayBlade]

As the weeks go on, pundits are getting more accurate in their analysis and comment and the Roygbiv 'view from' get's less about our lucky, direct, hard-working and basic football and more about how we are able to stifle teams who have superstars, but no real structure, tactical leadership or gameplan. One of my favourite moments in the week is reading the Friday pre-match view. Being the underdog fires me up and judging from the comments on the forum - it does for a lot of you.

I've been a fan since I was a kid. My first game was in 1992 and I've never really seen us play great football. Like a lot of you I've spent rainy Tuesday nights at Gigg Lane, Vale Park, and endured too many play-offs and off field dramas. I've always considered us the underdogs who are usually hard done by. If it can go wrong, it will.

But what happens now things are changing?

1) Other managers start to realise the reason their teams don't play well against us, is because of US not them? Send scouts, do their preparation and figure out ways to deal with our rigid defensive systems?
2) Other managers create systems to deal with our 'overlapping centre-backs' or even copy it and it becomes a norm of the game?
3) We begin to expect more - one day we won't be the underdogs.

My fear is that the more the pundits, other managers and teams come around to the way we play and understand it's intricacies - the harder time we are going to have and we then will see just how good Chris Wilder is. I just hope it's not this season because if teams do switch on - we could have a hellish time January onwards. If we are very successful and continue adapting and out-foxing the teams and managers in the best league in the world - can we keep hold of Wilder?

These aren't urgent points but I hope that the club can see that if we continue the way we are going, we won't be underdogs for long. Until then, I'm enjoying the ride, putting my faith in CWAK and remaining optimistic about the Prince and his vision forward.

UTB

I take your point but some have been saying that it’s only a matter of time before we’re ‘sussed out’ right back to Wilder’s first season in League One and every season since. The fact to date it hasn’t really happened (yet) surely means that there’s a lot more to us than meets the eye and it seems pretty obvious that we are constantly adapting our game to compete. That doesn’t mean some opposition managers won’t have a game plan to beat us, look at Walsall in L1 and Swansea last season, but I think top clubs apart we will continue to adapt and give most teams a good game this season and IF we stay up continue to improve.

 

[SMFblade]

As for those that worry about CWAK leaving, maybe he will but, why would he? He is managing his boyhood club, he is being successful, he has the respect of the fans and owner alike and he is already into building a dynasty the likes of Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger had. While we back him, I firmly believe that he will stay and be successful whatever successful means. UTB & FTP

That's why I'm worried about our underdog mentality changing. If we get used to our current success and cement our status in the Premier League, our expectations and more importantly, the expectations of the owner (and whoever he brings in to fund our progression) - may change. And Wilder become a victim of our constant progression.

I don't think that will happen but thats the only circumstance I can envision where Wilder would leave.

As for success: Long term success in my eyes is creating a sustainable, profitable, global PL football club but retaining the values and identity the club has. If the Prince improves the stadium, academy and provides the funds CW needs - looks like it's on its way to happening.

 

[SMFblade]

I take your point but some have been saying that it’s only a matter of time before we’re ‘sussed out’

I don't think we will be sussed out - what we are doing isn't a gimmick. I do believe other teams will copy and improve the system we have. What would happen if we had world-class players implementing our system?

In every footballing era, some genius forward-thinking manager changes formations and tactics and that becomes the norm. With technology advancing - that will happen faster and faster.

My main point, is that we have to continue adapting - both tactically and philosophically as we continue this amazing journey.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

One aspect of this is that the teams we play have finite resources of time and - judging from general mardiness amongst Everton players with 20' or so to go yesterday - commitment.

They have a week to prepare at most. We're just the next opposition in a production line of opponents. Each of who require work. One advantage we have is that the problems we pose are unusual, maybe even unique. If there was a quick fix it's likely someone would have found it by now and we'd be back at the bottom of League One having just let in 3 in 20' against Southend again.

We can analyse our game endlessly, forensically, but plenty of our opponents have got "better" things to do.

(I don't know if it's backed up by stats but anecdotally there's a general "second half of the season fall off" as teams who have played newly-promoted teams once already, play them again, and have adapted slightly more than the first time round. Something similar might happen to us.)

Besides that, a huge part of our game is desire and commitment. For instance, I can't imagine many players doing what Mousset did yesterday*. He was on the floor when Lundstram got the ball; most Prima Donna League players would have been calling for their hair-stylist at that point. Mousset got on with it. Timing, technique, pace, vision, commitment, everything about that goal was incredible.

And that's just one side of it: Wilder said in one of his interviews after the game that it was the togetherness that kept a clean sheet yesterday.



*Or Bash away at L***s last year.

Just one detail I see differently - most of the Premier League players most of the time are very strong and fit, and put in great effort. There are some who go down easily, and a few who no doubt stay down when their team would benefit from them getting up. But most do lung-busting sprints for the whole game, and if they feel that staying on their feet is to their benefit, they will stay on their feet, as the lad who scored the winner for Southampton did last week. Wilder's comment after the Leicester game that total commitment is the minimum requirement is correct - we also need skill, confidence, good decision-making, teamwork, etc., to have a chance of success.

 

[Manuel Azaña]

Two words.
One name.
Not a new signing either.

 

[SMFblade]

Two words.
One name.
Not a new signing either.

Prince Abdullah (Bin Mosaad Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud)

 

[Kev Gee]

I think that CW will be here for as long as we match his ambition. Hopefully AK will remain as well. As long as Prince Abdullah gives CW what he requests then I can't see him leaving. Even for bigger clubs such as Man Utd.

My hope is that we manage to break into Europe. How amazing would it be to see us regularly playing there? Or win a cup. (or a few)

Were still a long way from this and I'm sure CW will not get complacent.

Let's enjoy the ride!!

 

[diode_blade]

The blades are the new Borg of the premier league, always adapting to get throught the defensive shields of our opponents....
"Resistance is futile..."

 

[boss hog]

Sheffield United under Chris wilder continually adjust and adapt
We don't play the same way we did last season because it wouldn't work so we adapted it to the premier League

That's right pundits saying we'd get torn a new one with overlapping centre halves failed to take into consideration the chris wilder's not a one trick pony.
By the end of this season the top six will be after him.

 

[Luke1993]

Other managers create systems to deal with our 'overlapping centre-backs' or even copy it and it becomes a norm of the game?

Brighton are currently doing this, both Webster and DAN BURN are both playing as advanced centre backs, getting into crossing areas similar to bash and JOC.