Embarrassed.

[SouthEssexBlade]

if i had regularly failed to perform very straight forward tasks i would expect a bollocking. why should we accept players tossing it off?

The difference here is that Cresswell wasn't even given the chance to fail to perform and toss it off. Prejudice of the highest order and frankly more than embarrassing, akin to booing a player because of the colour of his skin. Never mind how he plays or what he does, he deserves one because he's ................... (insert your pre-judged bigotry of choice!)

 

[Revolution]

I'm just expressing my opinion that we used to be different, we used to support on a whole rather than what we are doing now.

Exactly when did we do this?

"Prejudice of the highest order and frankly more than embarrassing, akin to booing a player because of the colour of his skin."

Whatever the merits of booing or not booing, this is nonsense. Racist chanting is illegal, and rightly so.

 

[matth]

I'd imagine it's something to do with the fact that Cresswell turned us down in favour of Leeds, mentioning that they had more chance of going up than we did. That kind of snub is not soon forgotten.

Also, I'm sorry but as mentioned before, comparing a group of fans booing a player because he used to play for a rival team to racism is ridiculous. Truly ridiculous.

 

[Foxy]

Exactly when did we do this?

Remind me how many times in your lifetime we've booed a player onto the pitch before he's kicked a ball?

How many times over the years have you been at an away match where people violently abuse our own players and turn on their own as readily as they do these days?

I remember many a time having a laugh and supporting the team in some right shit-holes whilst losing to a team most would say we should batter.

Perhaps I'm just clouded in my vision of our fan base, but I and opposition fans I talk to used to view us with a great deal of respect in comparison to other fan bases. This is dwindling and is now almost non-existant.

We used to be able to laugh at ourselves, even though we were hurt and extremely concerned/unhappy. Now all we seem to be able to do is spew venom and fight with each other and the club.

 

[matth]

The team used to give a shit, and be a valiant, rag-tag troupe of spunky over-achievers. Defeat was expected; victory was savoured.

Now we've got a bunch of prima-donna pricks on massive wages who aren't fit to wear the shirt and couldn't care less about the club - Monty and Morgan excepted.

I'd say that has a massive influence on how the fans treat them.

And I think that 'violently abuse' is a bit strong. Perhaps in very small pockets, but the frustration aimed at the players is far less hyperbolic than that suggests, in the main.

 

[Revolution]

Remind me how many times in your lifetime we've booed a player onto the pitch before he's kicked a ball?

On that narrow point, you may be right. Generally, though, we've had periods with restive crowds as long as I can remember - 1984-5 and 1985-6 under Porterfield (the absolute nadir), under McEwan, late period Bassett, Heath, various points with Warnock (even during the promotion season - remember QPR home?), and of course the Robson era.

These crowds were all reacting to the same things - poor performances and results. Nothing has changed one iota.

How many times over the years have you been at an away match where people violently abuse our own players and turn on their own as readily as they do these days?

Frequently - the end of the Bassett era, notably at Southend, was one such time.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Booing, giving players stick for bad performances, whether that is collectively or as an individual is, and I would hope, always will be part of football in this country. Yes, supporters now have many avenues to vent their frustrations, but football is a reactive game and instant opinion on it should be there. I've never done it, personally disappointment sends me into a sulky silence rather than an angry outburst, but for others I can see the need.

However, the treatment that Cresswell received is something completely different. If he had been an Ipswich sub, boo him to buggery and shout 'Leeds tosser' or whatever else is appropriate because he is a member of the opposition that day (If he scores and then decides to come and give you a bit back, don't bleat like an Arsenal pussy, but I digress!). Cresswell though, was about to take the field in a Blades shirt. Had he played 10 or 12 games and been totally shite in them all, booing him isn't condoned but would be understandable. I'm not trying to rank it as being as offensive as anything racist, but pointing out that pre-judged attitudes were being voiced. Blades don't do that in my experience!

 

[SwissBlade]

Amazing!

That was the first word that sprung to mind when I logged on to the Forum this morning. I checked that I hadn't logged on to the Ipswich forum because it was them that haven't won in so many games and threw away a 1-3 lead, but no it was the Blades!

I didn't watch or listen to the match last night, we had an Oktoberfest night at work, free food and booze. So all I got was the text alerts and then meandered to the english pub in town in time to get the results in and see us claw it back from 1-3 down. Not great but a good recovery, harking back to 2003, 2005-06 type results, never say die attitude. The results around us went for us as well. What with Boro, Blackpool, Watford and WBA losing.

Ok so I didn't expect it to be sunshine and flowers on here, especially on the back of Saturdays display we needed a result and a performance. Sounds like we didn't get the latter, but after being 1-3 down we clawed it back, so we scraped it, sometimes it happens that way. I understand people being annoyed, two bad results and performances, i'm not excited by it all at the moment, we've got out of jail a bit recently.

I'm usually one of the first to chant "Blackwell Sort it out" when things aren't happening on the pitch. Its his team, his job.

But booing our own players!?! Four forks sake! Come on Blades we're better than this!

Booing players coming on the pitch is just childish and if you/ we don't like it that much and strongly oppose something just don't go to games.

Of course the team, players, management, directors etc are not without blame, but lets discuss the issues outside the 90 mins at BDTBL. That way the fans can only be praised.

Some of you don't like Blackie, but lets not have another Robbo situation, the one thing that we have going for us during a bad spell is the support. Whilst Blackies here lets get behind him, lets get behind the team he picks.

We're clearly trying to get players in, have a lot of loanees that we may want to sign and we have a classy central defender that could leave at the end of the season, do you think we'll get or keep any if they know that as soon as they have a bad game, the 25,000 Blades turn on them. If I was Harper or Killa it'd be in the back of my mind.

Lets get behind our team, we're Blades, in the past 10 years our support has grown and when we're behind the team we have some of the best and loudest support in the country.

 

[Darren]

I'm just expressing my opinion that we used to be different, we used to support on a whole rather than what we are doing now.

Exactly when did we do this?

"Prejudice of the highest order and frankly more than embarrassing, akin to booing a player because of the colour of his skin."

Whatever the merits of booing or not booing, this is nonsense. Racist chanting is illegal, and rightly so.

I think your'e missing his point. It seems to me that he is saying that booing a player for something unrelated to his footballing capabilities (whether it be his connection with another club or his colour) is stupid and irrational. A point which I think is obvious and unexceptionable.

I don't think he is saying (as you and Matth seem to have taken it) that booing someone because as his connection with another club is morally or legally akin to racism.

 

[TonyAgana]

comparing a group of fans booing a player because he used to play for a rival team to racism is ridiculous. Truly ridiculous.

From reading people's comments regarding Cresswell, it's fairly clear that different fans booed for different reasons. Some because he is an ex-pig / ex-dirty, some because he turned us down in the past, some because they think Blackwell doesn't know what he's doing, and some because "boo" is very close to "baa".

None of that should be focused towards the player once he pulls on a Blades shirt. He should start with a clean slate and unless THAT is the point you're disagreeing with then SEBs observation that "prejudice is prejudice" regardless of the subject, is perfectly just in my opinion. Not ridiculous.

 

[Revolution]

I don't think he is saying (as you and Matth seem to have taken it) that booing someone because as his connection with another club is morally or legally akin to racism.

Well, in that case he shouldn't have used the phrase "akin to booing a player because of the colour of his skin", because that's exactly what was said.

It seems to me that he is saying that booing a player for something unrelated to his footballing capabilities (whether it be his connection with another club or his colour) is stupid and irrational. A point which I think is obvious and unexceptionable.

Some might argue that Cresswell is being booed because of his footballing capabilities, or lack of them. Or, perhaps, he's being booed as a symbol of (forgive the phrase) the club's lack of ambition.

 

[Foxy]

Some might argue that Cresswell is being booed because of his footballing capabilities. Or, perhaps, he's being booed as a symbol of (forgive the phrase) the club's lack of ambition.

Would this be like the booing of the substitutions?

You know, as a symbol of telling the manager he didn't know what he was doing and that they wouldn't change the match?

Pity he didn't listen, we might have clawed back a draw if he had

 

[Revolution]

Yes, well done to Blackwell for putting Little on.

Hopefully he'll have learned his lesson from Saturday, when Little was all set to come on when Quinn scored, then told to sit down...and brought on after the 10 men had taken the lead, with 6 minutes to go.

 

[Foxy]

Yes, well done to Blackwell for putting Little on.

Hopefully he'll have learned his lesson from Saturday, when Little was all set to come on when Quinn scored, then told to sit down...and brought on after the 10 men had taken the lead, with 6 minutes to go.

Again, I actually agree. I'd have still brought him on there and then, but I can understand that Cotts bought himself a bit of time by having a hand in the goal.

Just think its worth a mention, given that everyone seems to think they know better, quite vocally so, but you could argue the man was proven right with the comeback.

 

[super_pig]

>he deserves one because he's ................... (insert your pre-judged bigotry of choice!)
a pig!

 

[Darren]

I don't think he is saying (as you and Matth seem to have taken it) that booing someone because as his connection with another club is morally or legally akin to racism.

Well, in that case he shouldn't have used the phrase "akin to booing a player because of the colour of his skin", because that's exactly what was said.

There's nothing I like better than a good semantic argument...

You seem to be focusing on the word "akin". To me he means "logically akin" (which it is and which is uncontroversial) rather than "morally akin" (which it isn't and which would be controversial).

 

[super_pig]

oh no.. lawyer alert <laugh>.. thanks for clearing that up

 

[matth]

Again, I actually agree. I'd have still brought him on there and then, but I can understand that Cotts bought himself a bit of time by having a hand in the goal.

Just think its worth a mention, given that everyone seems to think they know better, quite vocally so, but you could argue the man was proven right with the comeback.

Comeback? If Ipswich hadn't wasted so much time that the ref had to add it on at the end, we wouldn't have equalised. In any case, it was a lucky deflection.

Fair play to the manager for bringing on more striking options and going to claw it back (although let's be honest, we had nothing to lose then), but it could further be argued that we should never have got into that situation in the first place.

There wasn't a single period outside of the first five minutes yesterday when we played well. Certainly there were times when we played ok, but these looked better than they were in contrast to the crap that we were playing for the remainder of the time.

For once, we can't blame the referee or the other team's dirty tactics. We were the architects of our own downfall yesterday, and I think a point was more than we deserved.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I don't think he is saying (as you and Matth seem to have taken it) that booing someone because as his connection with another club is morally or legally akin to racism.

Well, in that case he shouldn't have used the phrase "akin to booing a player because of the colour of his skin", because that's exactly what was said.

There's nothing I like better than a good semantic argument...

You seem to be focusing on the word "akin". To me he means "logically akin" (which it is and which is uncontroversial) rather than "morally akin" (which it isn't and which would be controversial).

I think that is what I said in my subsequent post, but thanks Darren for being a bit more erudite linguistically than I was. Prejudice is prejudice in a logical way, but morally we all know that isn't the case. I myself can entertainment the thought that Cresswell is a dirty Leeds piggy scumbag who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo, however I then mentally intervene and say morally he's a Blade now so that over-rides my pre-judgement (for now!).

 

[Ted Danson]

For me the state of our fans was highlighted by the hypocrite next to me who was booing Cresswell while he was warming up and shouting F'off you piggy BStard. I hadn't heard that he'd signed for us and just assumed that he had signed for Ipswitch. He shouted his head off when Cotts came off saying the Blackwell hadn't got a clue. I thought although Cotts had seen lots of the ball he was ineffective and needed to go ( I feel like this in general about him ). This guy then topped it off by screaming "your not doing what your supposed to Henderson, Your Wank, call yourself a striker!" I thought about turning to him and screaming at him "your not doing what your supposed to, your wank, call yourself a fan!"

My feelings on the game is although we did play awful we've got to remember that we've got 2 key players out in Wardy and Treacy which looses us so much pace and I had us down for a guaranteed loss against Ipswitch, as we're the type of team that gets beaten by teams who've not won in ages so to come back to 3-3 was quite a good result and we could have nicked it easily.

I agree with Foxy, I think our fans have changed, it must be the extra 10K that came in the prem season, all floating fans that just want to moan and think they've got a right to prem football. I bet they were all at Hillsborough before we got promoted whingeing at the pigs.

 

[lenners]

From reading people's comments regarding Cresswell, it's fairly clear that different fans booed for different reasons. Some because he is an ex-pig / ex-dirty, some because he turned us down in the past, some because they think Blackwell doesn't know what he's doing, and some because "boo" is very close to "baa".

None of that should be focused towards the player once he pulls on a Blades shirt. He should start with a clean slate and unless THAT is the point you're disagreeing with then SEBs observation that "prejudice is prejudice" regardless of the subject, is perfectly just in my opinion. Not ridiculous.

That is absolute baloney. Players' or indeed managers' previous plays a big part on where they start with fans - all fans, regardless of club.
If Bryan Robson walked back in as manager tomorrow, I could guess what the response would be.
Cresswell starts with a deficit for obvious reasons. You can call it prejudice or whatever you like but it's entirely understandable and, in his case, absolutely 100 per cent logical.

 

[TonyAgana]

That is absolute baloney. Players' or indeed managers' previous plays a big part on where they start with fans - all fans, regardless of club.
If Bryan Robson walked back in as manager tomorrow, I could guess what the response would be.
Cresswell starts with a deficit for obvious reasons. You can call it prejudice or whatever you like but it's entirely understandable and, in his case, absolutely 100 per cent logical.

Balony? Pfffff! Who are you, Judge Judy?

Great example, Lenners; Bryan Robson. It probably bolsters my argument better than yours. Despite his piss-poor reputation, we gave Robson a warm welcome on his opening game at Bramall Lane and quite right too. Whatever prejudice we had, we gave him a chance. Then he had a nightmare, the fans reached a majority verdict on him and made our feelings known. So now you can say Bryan Robson has "previous" and no, he wouldn't be welcomed back. Richard Cresswell became a Sheffield United player for the first time yesterday and certain elements of the crowd didn't keep their prejudice in check. That's all. And 100% logical? Your theory may have logical elements but it's pretty far from 100%, sweet cheeks.

 

[themaninblack]

May I make the following observations:

I dont go to BDTBL to be entertained. I go because I'm a Blade;
Getting a point when playing crap is a good result;
I would rather have Richard Cresswell in the squad than Craig Beattie.

 

[Jimbo]

May I make the following observations:

I dont go to BDTBL to be entertained. I go because I'm a Blade;
Getting a point when playing crap is a good result;
I would rather have Richard Cresswell in the squad than Craig Beattie.

My feelings exactly mate.

 

[matth]

May I make the following observations:

I dont go to BDTBL to be entertained. I go because I'm a Blade;
Getting a point when playing crap is a good result;
I would rather have Richard Cresswell in the squad than Craig Beattie.

I do go to BDTBL to be entertained. Football's not compulsory, and it's not cheap. I don't need to see football played like Arsenal, but if I'm paying money and the team don't seem interested, I'm going to be angry. I'm a Blade, yes, but equally I'm paying for something I'm supposed to enjoy. We don't need to win, but what we do need is to play like we want to be there. Anything less is an insult to the fans.

Getting a point when playing crap is a good result. Getting a point out of sheer luck after being second best against a team at the bottom of the league, without a win all season, raises questions.

I would rather have neither of them. What's the point of signing Cresswell to play on the wing when we seem to have an embarrassment of riches of wingers anyway? It's like saying I'd rather have a player with one leg than a player with none. Why not neither?

 

[Ted Danson]

Getting a point when playing crap is a good result. Getting a point out of sheer luck after being second best against a team at the bottom of the league, without a win all season, raises questions.

I dont think we were second best, yes we were crap and they were crap but I feel we still edged it. We must have had more shots than them and probably more possesion. We did almost nick it a couple of times at the end too.

 

[Guesty]

I don't think we got a point out of sheer luck - Goals seemed inevitable in the last 15 minutes. That said we were beyond crap between our first and second goals, and lucky in a sense to be playing a team in such a blind panic as Ipswich.

 

[Micalijo]

You make some excellent points Foxy and it is 100% clear you are fanatical about SUFC. Unfortunately, there are thousands of like minded Blades who are physically sick of watching the team play at the moment. It pains me to feel so disillusioned and bored when a trip to BDTBL should be cherished, just the same as it pains you to hear your beloved team being booed and criticised at the game.

 

[Bladesman]

May I make the following observations:

I dont go to BDTBL to be entertained. I go because I'm a Blade;
Getting a point when playing crap is a good result;
I would rather have Richard Cresswell in the squad than Craig Beattie.

I do.

Why pay £400+ for a season ticket not to be? Football is meant to be entertaining or is that only top flight football?

 

[lenners]

Balony? Pfffff! Who are you, Judge Judy?

Great example, Lenners; Bryan Robson. It probably bolsters my argument better than yours. Despite his piss-poor reputation, we gave Robson a warm welcome on his opening game at Bramall Lane and quite right too. Whatever prejudice we had, we gave him a chance. Then he had a nightmare, the fans reached a majority verdict on him and made our feelings known. So now you can say Bryan Robson has "previous" and no, he wouldn't be welcomed back. Richard Cresswell became a Sheffield United player for the first time yesterday and certain elements of the crowd didn't keep their prejudice in check. That's all. And 100% logical? Your theory may have logical elements but it's pretty far from 100%, sweet cheeks.

Er, no, if Bryan Robson walked back in tomorrow we would be prejudiced against him even though it would be a fresh start, clean slate etc.
The over-riding point is that players or managers previous actions create an impression.
Cresswell's create a negative impression and there is absolutely no getting away from it.
Turning us down to go to Leeds is rightly held against him - we're not a bunch of ferking wallflowers fer crying out loud.
Add in the fact he's getting on, has done nothing in the game for ages and his signing goes against every alleged principle of what our policy on signing players was meant to be and you, not surprisingly, get a reaction.
Entirely understandable, entirely reasonable, entirely logical.
Nowhere near rocket science.