'Memries' Goalkeepers at the 'Lane

[snootyfenooty]

His only poor game was the West Ham one ?!! I don't think so.

I was at that game and he had an absolute shocker, but there were several more to come before we finally replaced him, as Cerberus rightly points out.

I can remember a match at the Lane during the power cuts so it was played midweek in the afternoon, also against West Ham. I stood on the Lane end so as not to get recognised as I had dodged work and to my surprise there were a few kop regulars standing there too for the same reason. Anyway, there was a corner for West Ham and the lads behind the goal started geeing Hope on and he responded by waving to us - just as the corner was taken and headed in whilst he was fucking about. I think Hope's attention span was one of his main problems and he could switch off at any time. Overall I wouldn't put him in the top 6 on my list since the Hodgy days.

In my opinion, the potentially best GK was McAlister and I reckon he would have surpassed Hodgy as my No.1 if he hadn't got the stuffing knocked out of him by the cunt Marsh.

 

[grafikhaus]

I think John Hope was a fascinating case study. He was some things that Hodgy wasn’t. at first. He was tall, young, trendy. He was superlative in his early days but the lad had problems. Confidence being the main one. The poor lad literally went to pieces and his goalkeeping was simply disastrous as time went on. Terrible shame but the truth is he emerged as one of the worst goalkeepers ever in our history. We can’t gloss over that if we are being truthful.

I remember Hodgy towards the end of his career and - at about 5' 9" - the times I saw him flap at crosses to send the ball to the opponents' striker who promptly smashed it in was depressing to behold. Hope was 'tall'? A requisite in a goalie. 'Young'? Why not?

John Hope (probably trying to fill the 'legendary' Hodgy's boots), was always on a hiding to nothing. He was a very good 'keeper but, as Karius proved, it's a very unforgiving position. Hope did the very best save I've ever seen - better than Banks v Pele in Mexico. Home to Newcastle, BL end and the ball fell to John Tudor who absolutely cracked it goalward. Hope dived low and (like Banks) got the heels of his hand to it and turned it over the bar. Good goalie, was John. 'One of the worst goalkeepers ever in our history'? Gi thi head a shek.

 

[Bashar Al Asaba]

I'm of the Kelly/Tracey era myself. Legends both, unlikely to be surpassed in terms of their status in the club's history. At least in my lifetime.

Although Kelly made a hilarious cock-up in my first ever match when he attempted to take on the entire WBA front line and promptly slipped on his arse for one of their goals. We lost 4-2 at home, that was the beginning of my long, expensive and emotionally draining life as an active Unitedite



I refuse to acknowledge Paddy Kenny's existence.

 

[Blade58]

Tom McAlister will be a name that always stays in the memory

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

What were his other poor games in the year 1971 then? It was in January 1972 when his confidence went and he was eventually dropped from the team in April. Suffered a knee injury in his first reserves match and was out of action for over a year.

I could be totally wrong here (every time I have questioned you on something I have been wrong), but I thought Hope was in goal for the 0-5 disaster against Arsenal in January 1972. I remember one of the Arsenal goals in the Kop end seeming not even to have the power to reach the back of the net after a disastrous piece of goalkeeping. I haven't managed to find any confirmation of this, so I would like to know if I am confusing games/goalkeepers.

 

[Silent Blade]

I could be totally wrong here (every time I have questioned you on something I have been wrong), but I thought Hope was in goal for the 0-5 disaster against Arsenal in January 1972. I remember one of the Arsenal goals in the Kop end seeming not even to have the power to reach the back of the net after a disastrous piece of goalkeeping. I haven't managed to find any confirmation of this, so I would like to know if I am confusing games/goalkeepers.

Yes Hope was in goal for the 0-5 disaster in January 1972. I said that his only poor game in the year 1971 alone was the 5-0 defeat at West Ham. Can you think of any more of his poor displays in the year 1971?

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Yes Hope was in goal for the 0-5 disaster in January 1972. I said that his only poor game in the year 1971 alone was the 5-0 defeat at West Ham. Can you think of any more of his poor displays in the year 1971?

I read your post too quickly - I was thinking 71-72 season. The West Ham game was on TV (highlights), which I assumed at the time contributed to his loss of confidence. It was still the case that highlights of matches on TV were infrequent. Hope quickly became a figure of fun, and I remember hearing the day after from an S6 friend (sorry, but such things happen) for the first time the story that Hope (other keepers' names can be used) went into the dressing-room after the game and put his head in his hands ... and dropped it. It is hard for a young keeper to come back from that sort of situation; Corrigan for Man City was one who did manage to do so. The West Ham and Arsenal games are the ones I remember as being particularly bad for Hope, who had started well at the Lane.

 

[Silent Blade]

I read your post too quickly - I was thinking 71-72 season. The West Ham game was on TV (highlights), which I assumed at the time contributed to his loss of confidence. It was still the case that highlights of matches on TV were infrequent. Hope quickly became a figure of fun, and I remember hearing the day after from an S6 friend (sorry, but such things happen) for the first time the story that Hope (other keepers' names can be used) went into the dressing-room after the game and put his head in his hands ... and dropped it. It is hard for a young keeper to come back from that sort of situation; Corrigan for Man City was one who did manage to do so. The West Ham and Arsenal games are the ones I remember as being particularly bad for Hope, who had started well at the Lane.

And in the 4-0 home defeat against Derby in April 1972. Got dropped from the 1st team then had a bad knee injury in a reserves match the following week. Didnt return to the 1st team until January 1974 (won 2-1 at Burnley), played 7 more 1st team matches before losing his place to new signing Jim Brown

 

[derfblade.3]

This Jim Brown......

 

[wizadry]

Paddy Kenny is a daft fucker who when a corner would be ready to be taken, would be seen cowardly hiding behind his own defenders, more often than not stood behind his own goal line so he wouldn’t have been able to stop anything from a set piece even if he wanted to.

After reading this thread there’s obviously not many share that view.

 

[Silent Blade]

This Jim Brown......

Greenwich Blade was it similar to the save he made against John Hollins of Chelsea in February 1975?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

His only poor game in 1971 was the 5-0 defeat at West Ham. Got selected twice for the England u23s. Remember his long throws?

Sorry mate, but I totally disagree with that. I think I gave a very fair account of his time with us. I also remember him making the England team and I also thought he was fantastic at first.

I saw just about every game he played. If you want me to give you an example of why you are wrong, take the 0-5 defeat by Arsenal at home. It's one I'll never forget. He flapped at crosses regularly, on that occasion they led to goals. But the defining moment of his short career was a tame shot during that game, which he went down to collect, legs open, and it went straight through his wide open legs into the net. I was on the Kop that day. At that point the fans didn't curse or boo - they were just numb at the incompetence of it. In that same match, and immediately after that horrendous blunder, Hope actually looked skywards, with hands clasped together and prayed. He was completely shot of confidence. I remember that moment as clear as day. It was the death knell for him as a professional goalkeeper and to be honest, the United fans were fantastic - because they didn't get on his back - they just saw a lad who had completely lost it and felt sorry for him. It was the end. He was dropped from the team not long after and, if I recall, I think he went on loan somewhere after that, (Port Vale rings a bell but I may be wrong), but eventually left the game altogether and became a tradesman.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I remember Hodgy towards the end of his career and - at about 5' 9" - the times I saw him flap at crosses to send the ball to the opponents' striker who promptly smashed it in was depressing to behold. Hope was 'tall'? A requisite in a goalie. 'Young'? Why not?

John Hope (probably trying to fill the 'legendary' Hodgy's boots), was always on a hiding to nothing. He was a very good 'keeper but, as Karius proved, it's a very unforgiving position. Hope did the very best save I've ever seen - better than Banks v Pele in Mexico. Home to Newcastle, BL end and the ball fell to John Tudor who absolutely cracked it goalward. Hope dived low and (like Banks) got the heels of his hand to it and turned it over the bar. Good goalie, was John. 'One of the worst goalkeepers ever in our history'? Gi thi head a shek.

I usually agree with your point of view but on this occasion I think you are well wide of the mark. I wonder if you ever saw Hodgy? Did you? If so, I'm gobsmacked by your comments tbh.

To be mentioning Hope and Hodgkinson in the same breath? No comparison! Hodkginson was one of the best goalkeepers, not just for United, but in England for years - (along with Springett of Wednesday). I remember some of our (fickle) fans criticising Hodkginson at the end of his career for being "too small". (The same fans criticised Dearden for being too small too). That was just about the only negative they could find. Because I tell you, I've seen that bloke fly like a bloody bird, horizontally in line with the crossbar, to keep shots out. Small he may have been, but athletic...my God, put it this way, we haven't had a better keeper since. I never saw him flap at a cross, I may have seen him beaten by a cross that was beyond his reach, but flap he did not. He was a very confident goalkeeper. Hope was the complete opposite.

I didn't witness it myself, but there was a story about Hodgy and his great relationship with Joe Shaw. They were always on the wind-up apparently. Towards the end of one game, Shaw thought the final whistle had gone and with the ball at his feet he turned towards Hodgy and blasted a shot at him. Unfortunately, it wasn't full time and the game was still in full play. Hodgy leapt full length to keep the shot out. It was a source of amusement for the crowd when everyone realised what had just happened.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Hope's magnificent saves. Some of the saves he did when he first came into the team were on a par with anything I've ever seen, by any goalkeeper, anywhere. But, and this is why I have formed the opinion I have of other goalkeepers since: It isn't the ability to make outstanding, point-blank, reflex saves that determines a good keeper. Many, if not most, can and do, do that, on occasions. It's the ability to do the simple things well. Command your area. Take a cross cleanly. Position yourself correctly. Distribute the ball well. I'm sorry mate to disagree with you, but Hodgkinson did that week in and week out for decades. Hope didn't. That's the difference.

 

[Snowman]

Hope was a good goalkeeper, but that is the point, he was a good goalkeeper who completely lost it. Many of the goalkeepers I recall may have lasted longer but weren't as good. Conroy, Richardson, Waugh, Bunn (loan) Simmonsen, Long to name a few. By "good", I mean in the normal course of events he mastered all that was necessary of the goalkeeping arts for fans and teammate to have confidence in him not screwing up sprinkled with game winning saves and bravery. (Anybody who saw Richardson would understand the opposite of that). Hope had all that until it just went. I was there for the West Ham debacle.I couldn't believe it. I don't think I have ever seen a keeper seem to disintegrate so quickly. We've had worse than Hope, Simmonsen springs immediately to mind.

 

[Silent Blade]

Sorry mate, but I totally disagree with that. I think I gave a very fair account of his time with us. I also remember him making the England team and I also thought he was fantastic at first.

I saw just about every game he played. If you want me to give you an example of why you are wrong, take the 0-5 defeat by Arsenal at home. It's one I'll never forget. He flapped at crosses regularly, on that occasion they led to goals. But the defining moment of his short career was a tame shot during that game, which he went down to collect, legs open, and it went straight through his wide open legs into the net. I was on the Kop that day. At that point the fans didn't curse or boo - they were just numb at the incompetence of it. In that same match, and immediately after that horrendous blunder, Hope actually looked skywards, with hands clasped together and prayed. He was completely shot of confidence. I remember that moment as clear as day. It was the death knell for him as a professional goalkeeper and to be honest, the United fans were fantastic - because they didn't get on his back - they just saw a lad who had completely lost it and felt sorry for him. It was the end. He was dropped from the team not long after and, if I recall, I think he went on loan somewhere after that, (Port Vale rings a bell but I may be wrong), but eventually left the game altogether and became a tradesman.

Sigh! Read what I had said! Just one bad game in the year 1971 only!! The Arsenal game was in 1972

 

[Silent Blade]

I usually agree with your point of view but on this occasion I think you are well wide of the mark. I wonder if you ever saw Hodgy? Did you? If so, I'm gobsmacked by your comments tbh.

To be mentioning Hope and Hodgkinson in the same breath? No comparison! Hodkginson was one of the best goalkeepers, not just for United, but in England for years - (along with Springett of Wednesday). I remember some of our (fickle) fans criticising Hodkginson at the end of his career for being "too small". (The same fans criticised Dearden for being too small too). That was just about the only negative they could find. Because I tell you, I've seen that bloke fly like a bloody bird, horizontally in line with the crossbar, to keep shots out. Small he may have been, but athletic...my God, put it this way, we haven't had a better keeper since. I never saw him flap at a cross, I may have seen him beaten by a cross that was beyond his reach, but flap he did not. He was a very confident goalkeeper. Hope was the complete opposite.

I didn't witness it myself, but there was a story about Hodgy and his great relationship with Joe Shaw. They were always on the wind-up apparently. Towards the end of one game, Shaw thought the final whistle had gone and with the ball at his feet he turned towards Hodgy and blasted a shot at him. Unfortunately, it wasn't full time and the game was still in full play. Hodgy leapt full length to keep the shot out. It was a source of amusement for the crowd when everyone realised what had just happened.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Hope's magnificent saves. Some of the saves he did when he first came into the team were on a par with anything I've ever seen, by any goalkeeper, anywhere. But, and this is why I have formed the opinion I have of other goalkeepers since: It isn't the ability to make outstanding, point-blank, reflex saves that determines a good keeper. Many, if not most, can and do, do that, on occasions. It's the ability to do the simple things well. Command your area. Take a cross cleanly. Position yourself correctly. Distribute the ball well. I'm sorry mate to disagree with you, but Hodgkinson did that week in and week out for decades. Hope didn't. That's the difference.

Hodgy was a very good keeper but in the 1970-71 season he had lost confidence and was letting in soft goals and lost confidence in dealing with the high balls. Bristol City (h) in Sept 1970 was his first "poor" game. Let in a soft equaliser at Blackburn in Nov, poor punching at Luton for their 2nd goal in Dec, 2-1 defeat at Bolton in January was enough for Harris to go in the transfer market for a keeper

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Hodgy was a very good keeper but in the 1970-71 season he had lost confidence and was letting in soft goals and lost confidence in dealing with the high balls. Bristol City (h) in Sept 1970 was his first "poor" game. Let in a soft equaliser at Blackburn in Nov, poor punching at Luton for their 2nd goal in Dec, 2-1 defeat at Bolton in January was enough for Harris to go in the transfer market for a keeper

I think he was past his best by then, I don't disagree with that. But to take someone who was probably the greatest goalkeeper the club has ever had, and compare him to someone who was probably the worst goalkeeper the club has ever had, and draw equivalence, is a really strange comparison imo.

Sigh! Read what I had said! Just one bad game in the year 1971 only!! The Arsenal game was in 1972

Oh right! Well, yes I missed that. I didn't realise that when we looked back on any player we just had to single out one season and comment on that? So, you picked 1971 did you? OK. I think he was alright up to that point and so maybe we agree.

But I'm talking about his career at the club - not one season.

What you've done there is something that, in my line of work, we are not allowed to do. We have to substantiate facts with evidence. And we aren't allowed to just select part of the evidence, we have to review all of it and come to a conclusion or recommendation on it. That's why you caught me out with that one!

In that case, I think Derek Richardson was the greatest goalkeeper we've ever had, based on his first 3 minutes in goal for us, in 1979.

 

[Silent Blade]

I think he was past his best by then, I don't disagree with that. But to take someone who was probably the greatest goalkeeper the club has ever had, and compare him to someone who was probably the worst goalkeeper the club has ever had, and draw equivalence, is a really strange comparison imo.


Oh right! Well, yes I missed that. I didn't realise that when we looked back on any player we just had to single out one season and comment on that? So, you picked 1971 did you? OK. I think he was alright up to that point and so maybe we agree.

But I'm talking about his career at the club - not one season.

What you've done there is something that, in my line of work, we are not allowed to do. We have to substantiate facts with evidence. And we aren't allowed to just select part of the evidence, we have to review all of it and come to a conclusion or recommendation on it. That's why you caught me out with that one!

In that case, I think Derek Richardson was the greatest goalkeeper we've ever had, based on his first 3 minutes in goal for us, in 1979.

Yes Hodgy was a very good keeper but Harris made the right decision. We wouldnt have got promoted had Hodgy continued. 8 successive clean sheets is still a record at the club, and it was Hope who holds it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think he was past his best by then, I don't disagree with that. But to take someone who was probably the greatest goalkeeper the club has ever had, and compare him to someone who was probably the worst goalkeeper the club has ever had, and draw equivalence, is a really strange comparison imo.


Oh right! Well, yes I missed that. I didn't realise that when we looked back on any player we just had to single out one season and comment on that? So, you picked 1971 did you? OK. I think he was alright up to that point and so maybe we agree.

But I'm talking about his career at the club - not one season.

What you've done there is something that, in my line of work, we are not allowed to do. We have to substantiate facts with evidence. And we aren't allowed to just select part of the evidence, we have to review all of it and come to a conclusion or recommendation on it. That's why you caught me out with that one!

In that case, I think Derek Richardson was the greatest goalkeeper we've ever had, based on his first 3 minutes in goal for us, in 1979.

If you think Hope is probably the worst keeper we've ever had it's no surprise that you can't recall Hodgy struggling that season. Your eyes must be painted on.

Mind you, I can't remember Hodgy diving horizontally at crossbar height to make saves either...... because that makes no sense at all.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think he was past his best by then, I don't disagree with that. But to take someone who was probably the greatest goalkeeper the club has ever had, and compare him to someone who was probably the worst goalkeeper the club has ever had, and draw equivalence, is a really strange comparison imo.


Oh right! Well, yes I missed that. I didn't realise that when we looked back on any player we just had to single out one season and comment on that? So, you picked 1971 did you? OK. I think he was alright up to that point and so maybe we agree.

But I'm talking about his career at the club - not one season.

What you've done there is something that, in my line of work, we are not allowed to do. We have to substantiate facts with evidence. And we aren't allowed to just select part of the evidence, we have to review all of it and come to a conclusion or recommendation on it. That's why you caught me out with that one!

In that case, I think Derek Richardson was the greatest goalkeeper we've ever had, based on his first 3 minutes in goal for us, in 1979.

So from "probably the worst keeper" you've backtracked to "he was alright" in 1971.

The comparison you keep making is comparing Hope to a legend to prove that Hope was pretty much useless. Which is nonsense.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Mind you, I can't remember Hodgy diving horizontally at crossbar height to make saves either...... because that makes no sense at all.

It was so he could tip it under the bar!

 

[Dellas Cowboys]

Nigel Adkins - past his best between the sticks when he came to us. But always positive...

 

[Speedracer]

Hodgy was probably past his best when I first saw him play, but I would still say he was the best we have ever had, his athleticism was unbelievable and he had big thighs which enabled him to leap great distances, compensating him for his lack of inches. I wasn't very tall either, yet I was offered a schoolboy contract by Newcastle in '69/70, aged 13, I maxed out at just 6ft but obviously smaller when spotted. I turned it down by the way, didn't fancy life as a 'keeper, which is probably why I have such a soft spot for Hope. A goalkeeper can have a great game, make one mistake and be called a liability, outfield players make more mistakes in 15 minutes and be called great, that is the nature and pressure of the position. There is no doubt that Hope had all the ability in the world, he was as responsible for us getting promotion as anyone in that magnificent season, but sadly he didn't have much mental toughness, so when he had his injuries they were always on his mind and it affected him badly. If I close my eyes I can still see some of his saves, and I will never forget the good of John Hope.

 

[Snowman]

Hodgy was probably past his best when I first saw him play, but I would still say he was the best we have ever had, his athleticism was unbelievable and he had big thighs which enabled him to leap great distances, compensating him for his lack of inches. I wasn't very tall either, yet I was offered a schoolboy contract by Newcastle in '69/70, aged 13, I maxed out at just 6ft but obviously smaller when spotted. I turned it down by the way, didn't fancy life as a 'keeper, which is probably why I have such a soft spot for Hope. A goalkeeper can have a great game, make one mistake and be called a liability, outfield players make more mistakes in 15 minutes and be called great, that is the nature and pressure of the position. There is no doubt that Hope had all the ability in the world, he was as responsible for us getting promotion as anyone in that magnificent season, but sadly he didn't have much mental toughness, so when he had his injuries they were always on his mind and it affected him badly. If I close my eyes I can still see some of his saves, and I will never forget the good of John Hope.

Well put. He was a good keeper. He went the way of some of us unfortunately. It's an individual position and sometimes it destroys you and you never come back. I did see Hodgy from 1961. A hero, but although my juvenile memory may play tricks, there were two better to my mind.

 

[bigbirdblade]

Keepers I remember fondly, and rated highly:-
Kenny
Kelly
Tracy
Rees
Waugh
Burridge

Keepers I was glad to see the back of:-
Richardson
Conroy
Howard
Segars
Blackwell

Howard was decent in my opinion.

 

[MoscowBlade]

Well put. He was a good keeper. He went the way of some of us unfortunately. It's an individual position and sometimes it destroys you and you never come back. I did see Hodgy from 1961. A hero, but although my juvenile memory may play tricks, there were two better to my mind.

His only poor game in 1971 was the 5-0 defeat at West Ham. Got selected twice for the England u23s. Remember his long throws?

Not sure where to post my comments because many points have been raised by various posters.
My comments are that Alan Hodgkinson played 576 games for us and in amongst that number there are bound to be off days but generally speaking he set the standards by which those that followed are measured and compared. Hodgy was also capped 4 times at the age of 20, was recognised as the first some specialist goalkeeping coach and gave the best part of 60 years to the art of goalkeeping. For Kelly, Tracey, Kenny and others to be compared to Hodgy shows what an important and vital role he performed for so long, not only for us but for other teams too.
Hodgy at his very best Kelly at his very best, Tracey at his very best......all superb in their own way and we were very fortunate to have them at Sheffield Utd.

 

[Silent Blade]

Not sure where to post my comments because many points have been raised by various posters.
My comments are that Alan Hodgkinson played 576 games for us and in amongst that number there are bound to be off days but generally speaking he set the standards by which those that followed are measured and compared. Hodgy was also capped 4 times at the age of 20, was recognised as the first some specialist goalkeeping coach and gave the best part of 60 years to the art of goalkeeping. For Kelly, Tracey, Kenny and others to be compared to Hodgy shows what an important and vital role he performed for so long, not only for us but for other teams too.
Hodgy at his very best Kelly at his very best, Tracey at his very best......all superb in their own way and we were very fortunate to have them at Sheffield Utd.

Yes, sadly I missed Hodgy's best years

 

[Snowman]

Not sure where to post my comments because many points have been raised by various posters.
My comments are that Alan Hodgkinson played 576 games for us and in amongst that number there are bound to be off days but generally speaking he set the standards by which those that followed are measured and compared. Hodgy was also capped 4 times at the age of 20, was recognised as the first some specialist goalkeeping coach and gave the best part of 60 years to the art of goalkeeping. For Kelly, Tracey, Kenny and others to be compared to Hodgy shows what an important and vital role he performed for so long, not only for us but for other teams too.
Hodgy at his very best Kelly at his very best, Tracey at his very best......all superb in their own way and we were very fortunate to have them at Sheffield Utd.

Can't fault that. A great keeper over many years, If he wasn't he wouldn't have survived as many years (as John Hope didn't.)

Like midfielders have their favourite players so have keepers. Kelly was mine followed by McAllister then Hodgy. It's a personal preference in what you see as a keeper. Modern day, I prefer Courtois to De Gea though both are exceptional.

 

[Rodley]

Simonsen was a horror show.

I’m skeptical of any man who has an Elton John hair weave and in Simmo’s case I was right!!!

 

[Stevo71]

My top 5 keepers are .......
1- Kelly
2- Waugh
3- Reece
4- Tracey
5- Budgie

My worst 5 keepers are .......
1- Richardson
2- Kite
3- Benstead
4- Goram
5- Segars